The founder of the first Facebook app to market property has issued an abject apology to agents after finding itself at the centre of a row over a press release which said in its headline that ‘No one likes Estate Agents’.
Estate agency software company Vebra has also defended itself after coming under fire for supplying agents’ properties to the Property Place app, which launched last month.
One leading industry figure, who obtained the Property Place release, told EAT: “Agents should be screaming to have their properties removed – are they asleep?”
He added: “Agents’ properties are being loaded on to this app without their knowledge by Vebra who is involved in this project – talk about biting the hand that feeds you!
“Why aren’t agents up in arms demanding that their properties are removed asap, since this app is intended to attract private sellers at the expense of agents? This is the same as what Tesco tried a few years back with Tesco Property Market, but is much worse given Facebook’s reach and audience.”
The press release, intended to draw consumers’ attention to Property Place, said: “Cutting out expensive estate and letting agents, Property Place is the cost-effective way to take control of what can be one of the most stressful events in your life.”
It quotes founder Sohail Rashid saying: “We’re all feeling the pinch and looking at ways to save money. Property Place is the perfect tool for people looking to sell or rent their property without the hefty estate agent fees, saving the average user £4,150.”
But it has emerged that Property Place has been employing two different PR firms, one to promote the launch to consumers and the other to promote it to agents. The ‘no one likes estate agents’ release was sent out by the consumer agency, apparently without the knowledge of the other PR firm.
Last night, Rashid admitted: “Quite frankly it wasn’t a good press release and apologies are in order. It does not reflect my desire to strongly support estate agents through the current difficult times and beyond.”
He went on: “100% of Property Place’s sales listings and 90% of rentals are from agents, and from now until the end of March we are offering new estate agent members fixed fees for the next two years and a cap on any increase over the next three years.
“The application does allow private uploads, but they will always be a small part, and the benefits to estate agents of improved transparency for properties are very great, as reflected by a strong flow of estate agents signing up to the service. Already, agents are successfully arranging viewings through our app.
“We are already upgrading the system in line with suggestions from agent users and we will shortly be offering a new service giving agents unique demographic profile information about who is searching, what they are searching for and where.
“There will always be private sales and rentals on the market, particularly when it comes to room-share, and Property Place’s value to all users comes from it being an open social media platform.
“But the vast majority of home owners will always need estate and letting agents, and we intend to help them flourish through offering a more cost-effective and innovative solution than the established web-only platforms.”
Meanwhile, Vebra’s parent company GMG Property Services has also acted quickly to reassure agents that it puts their interests first.
Group managing director Mark Goddard said: “We are totally supportive of agents. We communicated what we would be doing to our clients last November and we had no objections at all until very recently, when our attention was drawn to this press release. We have now had two customers objecting to their properties being on this app.
“But in fact, the app is full of estate agents’ properties, not those from private sellers and landlords.” He said he had spoken to Rashid about this, and underlined the value of agents.
Goddard added: “Our view is that if it works for agents, then we will support it. If it doesn’t, then we will pull the plug. There is no ongoing contractual arrangement between us.”
He went on: “It is important to stress we have no investment or involvement with Property Place other than a third party marketing arrangement on behalf of our agents.
“I have spoken to Sohail on numerous occasion over the last week, and he is changing his message to focus on agents being the main thrust of how this app will be successful.”
Goddard said that Vebra is not the only software company giving a feed to Property Place. He said that most other software companies were doing the same.
He added: “I do believe that Facebook as a medium has interesting potential as a place to search for property. We have negotiated that all GMG clients can appear on the app free of charge, so this is a good way for additional exposure.
“We and our clients will continue to monitor the progress of this app with interest.”
Comments
Ok lets give the founder of Property Places one last chance to convince us to spend anymore time on debating the worth or worthlessness of his portal.
Please answer this one question;
How much money are you spending this calendar year on consumer advertising?
Please list by budget per medium, eg online (inc paid for facebook ads), press, TV, Radio, PR (oops).
Agents can then make their own minds up about whether this is a place to be listed on.
You're welcome.
Is Mark one of the "Johnie come lately spivs" you referred to previously? All ego and no experience as Vebradatafeed confirms?
Seems you were right!
@Mike.
Thanks for correcting my error.
No offence meant Mike.
"I just do as I'm told"
Befehl ist Befehl. The Nuremberg defence! How ironic that GMG staff are using that to excuse their actions?
Some confusion, Mike Goddard is the Chairman of Belvoir a good, decent and honest man. I am guessing you meant Mark Goddard?
anon posting
'Facebook is a social and gaming platform not a property portal - the opportunity here is for agents like all other businesses to use it as just another media and leverage it whilst it makes sense'
Seriously Take this advice on board and get involved.
Dont wait for some wide boy to make another Mil or so off your back.
Our advertising consultancy use viral marketing , facebook, google+ and other internet stuff, that goes over this old mans head.
Importantly they get results, something about entering the physiological market place, getting people talking about us [in a good way] and wanting to use us because it's what their peers are doing.
If you don't know how, there are plenty of free guides, forums etc... to assist you in launching your own campaigns.
"No-one likes Estate Agents"
I'm not keen on dentists but wouldn't be without one.
I really don't care about these headlines. The Ombudsman has just surveyed our last 10 vendors and purchasers and it seems they love us.
never mind this idiot. Shapps have unveiled his new market boosting scheme.
Facebook is a social and gaming platform not a property portal - the opportunity here is for agents like all other businesses to use it as just another media and leverage it whilst it makes sense
The smart agents see the opportunity
It may deliver results and plenty of businesses are reporting good feedback
It is not a RM replacement - but could sit alongside as a cost effective support
I just do as I'm told.
My owner doesn't really understand the marketplace.
@ inview, you sound like a drowning man trying to cling on to a floating t11rd.
Yes it is cheap, will it really save you though? Nah !
Thank you Big Ted for the link and just to make sure, I think it is worth posting again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4pZ0zJdfAY&feature=player_embedded#!
I am sure it will resonate with every agent who has watched the gradual erosion of our business by so many 'feeders'.
I think all these sites, along with Rightmove and their ilk will wither on the vine particularly when the market picks up. At the moment everyone is window shopping, Rightmove have seen it as an opportunity to keep hiking up their charges on the basis that traffic has increased - all tyre kickers of course, no buyers and they have got away with it!
Agents will eventually see the benefit of having a cooperative and working with each other instead of giving it away to portals.
Alright Sohail, easy , just because you and Vebra have had a PR disaster that Ratner would have been embarrassed of.
@timothy mallet
yes tim....anyone who has a shred of positivity towards property places must be mr rashid masquerading as somone else....
just because not everyone agrees with YOUR point of view does not mean they are wrong....
So says Sohail 'inview' Rashid
WTF?!
so we attack property places?
these guys have guaranteed their prices for what seems like the medium term future. so what if they allow private people to upload?
last time i checked rightmove were bringing this functionality on to their site.....and they have the gall to charge extortionate amounts of money!
fair enough mr rashid has made some disparaging comments. the way i see it, he has apologised and is actually doing us a favour by providing us with the alternative that we all seem to talk about wanting to create.
remember, only a small amount of people will actually want to upload the properties themselves. it is a lot of hassle selling a house - thats why we are here, providing the service of taking the hassle out of a customers hands. there are many homeowners who are prepared to take on the hassle and save themselves a few pennies. that is their pregorative.
but don't think for one minute that EVERYONE wants to upload their properties individually. a lot of people prefer to hand it over to someone who knows what they are doing!
give these boys a break, they're actually doing us a favour by providing an alternative.
Mike Goddard
Be very, very glad this not America.
Didn't Zoopla try to do private listings when they first started out ?
I don't think this will work - but agents should grab a free trial or cheap deal until they decide.
I use facebook pages for 3 of my branches in London, and at the moment it is not doing much for me.
The bigger concern is the slow creep of private listings on RM and how they are going to combat this, that is still where the viewing public start and finish in my experience
"You're not telling me that GMG don't have the media skill and budget to do this themselves rather than risk their reputation using someone else"
Don't you read the papers? 6 months ago it was widely reported that all the reserves and income for GMG would be burnt, spent or pi55ed against the wall within 5 years. So no they don't have the cash to do it themselves.
As for their media skills, they made them all redundant not long after they gave "Think" away.
It is like a sad West end Show at the end of its days. All the talent has left the Theatre. Billy Who is playing the lead.
This would have been one of the famous failed partnerships that ends with a smoking hole in the ground.
Seems like your buddy at GMG is trying to distance himself from your PR machine.
You were warned this would happen and yet again we were right.
Ask anyone from Wolverhampton or Frome what it is like to have this Trojan Horse come up your garden path.
5 individual companies is a group, 5 merged into 1 is a company and in this case not a very good one.
GMG is to failure what Midas is to Gold.
For the record us agents don't think much of Vebra either
Property Place is going down, and quickly. What an absolute disaster. Ill-thought through idea, woefully poor execution and two fingers to all agents out there.
The really sad thing is I suspect Mr Rashid is of the 'no PR is bad PR' mindset.
What on earth are GMC doing going into business with him? Shows how much they value agency loyalty to Vebra. You're not telling me that GMG don't have the media skill and budget to do this themselves rather than risk their reputation using someone else.
Just looked at property place for a local postcode to me, and found a new-build, constructed 2007, which was sold sometime in 2008 .....
and some other listings for an agent who stopped trading in 2008....
etc
'and the benefits to estate agents of improved transparency for properties are very great, as reflected by a strong flow of estate agents signing up to the service.'
How does listing out of date, incorrectly priced property improve transparency? Even if he had good stock, I still don't get the transparency comment.
He still manages to mugg off agents even when he’s apologising.
What a tool.
Rashid and Vebra are honest, no onelikes Estate Agents it appears, even you that live off them!
All the software companies make money from our property uploads so why are we surprised at Vebra or Dezrez?
@PeeBee,
indeed, Your post promted me to have a look. The same errors from the same time i.e years ago. It looks like to me that the scrape happened in 2009 and has never been updated. I wonder if he paid for the data?
Has Mr Rashid heard of PMA?
Of course, agents with an XML2U feed can have their latest listings posted to Facebook for a mere £2 a month, adding Twitter and LinkedIn for only another £4 a month.
MIke
So - you have read the rantings of Mr Hendry then!
How strange you have yet to comment on them.
I, for one, would LOVE to read your opinion! So would Mr Hendry, according to his last post...
GO ON - make my day!! ;o)
My perennial complaint.
All these websites, apps, ancillary companies who are trying to make some money out of our industry have 1 thing in common.
They slag EAs off as part of their marketing campaign. Forever painting us as:
Unreliable
Untrustworthy
Unprofessional
Add to the list as you see fit.
They then infer that for a vendor to get good/ transparent/ honest etc.... service it's best to use their, portal/ app/ service/ website.
And EAs pay money to these people?
Glad I'm not on Vebra....if dez rez tried something like this I would be livid and change provider immediately.
wardy: "It seems the out of date feed comes from the same place as all these other dodgy websites."
Ahhh, mon ami - you got it in one! Methinks it is the same sources that our surveyor 'friend' creams off. In fact - I wouldn't be surprised if said gentleman is the SUPPLIER of the information.
According to his facebook page (link via his blog...), HIS OWN PROPERTY is advertised on this PropertyPlace malarkey!!
What's THAT about then?? ;o)
Similar problems occur in the US.
An interesting explanation from one Realtor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4pZ0zJdfAY&feature=player_embedded#!
You may need to copy and paste into your browser to see the video.
A Trojan horse if ever I have seen one. This guy's whole model is to promote private sales. He needs agent listings to get it off the ground. Of course he is offering great deals and apologising. Without agent listings this goes nowehre. If you list, then don't be surprised to see private sales increase at your expense. We agents have made a big fuss about portals only having agent properties and not private listings - this guy admits to having both and poress releases very clearly that agents are a waste of money. Wake up and get your listings off there if you have any sense.
What's this fixed price for 2 years offer? Has anybody got any further details about this - I cannot see anything about it anywhere
Another poorly executed idea that's now dead in the water.
(don't get me wrong the idea may be ok but the execution of it has been terrible from all angles)
As another post said - they've had their Ratner moment and there's no way back from here.
Next...
One Word: Failure.
Just had a deal fall through because both sides tried to deal with matters themselves and they ended up hating each other and yours truly loses a deal all because they thought they would be clever. Bunch of dimwits.
This site should just shut down as with present conditions agents do a better job than jo public give us credit for.
Of course we are hated right up to when we find a buyer or a tenant and then we are the best thing since sliced bread. Only down side is that if a sale falls through we sometimes get the blame as we are an easy target.
Ooops!
a classic 'ratner' statement from the founder if ever i heard one !
just because facebook has a huge user base doesn't mean an app will be successful. it has to suit the medium.
tesco has a lot of visitors, but i don't see them offering in store dentisty any time soon.
well i dont use vebra and mine are on there, all wrong and some a couple of years old. It seems the out of date feed comes from the same place as all these other dodgy websites.
Mr Rashid needs to sack his PR firm and sack himself while he's at it.
Isn't this old news ----
This site is littered with tales of the next big thing.
Having spoken to my software provider I know they are also in discussions to get my stock uploaded - but have told me I have to pay - but they have told me not much
Take the opportunity to try it, as it may not be around tomorrow - if it works - then heh - no more RM fees - seems they will be keen to cut good deals at the moment if the above is true.
Why did he apologies?
Its not as it he said something that want true
Sits back with cup of tea and box of chocolates and watches with interest.....
Can you sell properties on Facebook?
Anybody had any luck here? I can't see people using it to look for houses, it's too much of a private process and this won't work, Facebook isn's used for that. People and Agents will always need websites like Right Move to generate leads!
Perhaps this is a case of having egg on your facebook?
I don't see why Vebra would upload properties without agents knowledge if the business model is for PP to charge for listing? Not much of a free trial if you dont know about it.
Nevertheless, I agree - Facebook is an exciting medium.
We use a GMG product (EncoreLive, sister to Vebra) which is why we seem to have been ripped onto this site. I certainly wouldn't pay to be on it, given how inaccurate is is! And for the record, my firm had no communication whatsoever from GMG to advise this was going to take place.
I may well be giving another property software company a ring, after my lawyers have finished with GMG regarding playing fast and loose with my intellectual property rights.
Hang on - "“Agents’ properties are being loaded on to this app without their knowledge by Vebra"
So why pay anything?
I did a search of my area and found my firm's properties displayed with a spelling error in the name of the firm, and the next few properties in the list were listed under the name of a firm that closed down over a year ago.
With this kind of catastrophic ineptitude, it can't last long .....
I would stab a guess that 'Edward' works for Property Places...
FIXED FEES FOR 2 YEARS AND CAPPED INCREASE FOR 3 YEARS - That is one hell of an apology Mr Rasheed I will snap hands off. I hope you stick to it
if you sign up haggle at first we were quoted per month £120 for unlimited property then £100 then £50 per month we signed BUT not one lead so far very dissapointing. Glad we are on a 3 month trial
Thank you for the apology- will sign up now!!
oh dear not off to a good start so glad we did not sign with them !