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Written by rosalind renshaw

Sellers are continuing to “romp away from reality”, Rightmove said this morning, as asking prices for properties new to the market over the last month went up yet again.

The latest rise, of 0.6%, or an average of £1,520, means that the average asking price for a home new to the market now stands at £240,394.

It is the highest ever asking price for June and is the sixth month on the trot where asking prices have risen.

The figure compares with the Halifax’s current ‘mortgage agreed’ selling price of £160,519 and Nationwide’s £167,208.

Altogether, asking prices for properties coming on to the market have risen 8.1% or an average of £17,984 this year.

But Rightmove is now predicting that asking prices will fall 7% over the rest of the year, noting that the overall market is stagnant with mortgage levels at half those of 2007, and a lack of buyers.

According to Rightmove, there is an average of 78 properties unsold at each estate agency office. The unsold stock figure was 69 back in January and has been rising throughout the year.

Miles Shipside, director of Rightmove, said: “As the seasonal surge in demand begins to fall back, new sellers’ asking prices will also have to ebb away.

“With mortgage approvals stuck at half the normal level, the number of sellers who can find a buyer is likely to be reduced by a similar proportion.”

He added: “Increasing stock levels are a clear indication of buyer appetite failing to keep pace with the number of sellers who are showing some hunger to sell.

“However, with most sellers able to take their time and wait for an offer that matches their expectations, we are seeing the highest ever asking prices for the month of June.

“High levels of unsold stock and record asking prices cannot remain happy bedfellows for long, so we expect to see this romp away from reality to reverse itself in the second half of the year as the over-supply of property and under-supply of mortgages reassert themselves and exert downwards price pressure.”

Today’s Rightmove report also shows a widening ‘wealth’ gap between the south and the north, with asking prices largely going back in the north and up in the south.

But Shipside said this was not always the case: “Wealthier locations in the north are definitely bucking this trend with brisk activity, and poorer areas in the south are struggling just as much as similar areas in the north.”

London once again bucked all trends, with asking for new properties for sale up an astonishing 1.8% in the last month – an extra £7,686 on the asking price. The average asking price for a London home is now £429,597.


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    Thankyou peebee.

    Will be digesting that.

    • 24 June 2011 20:10 PM
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    FTB Dan - I'm back!!

    Okay. i'll keep this as short as possible for everyone's sake - but I feel that we will be bouncing around for a while over it... Some won't agree with what I am going to say - fine by me - but despite recent allegations from certain parties I intend to be 100% honest with you, so here goes nothing ;o) (Hell - I can always bow out as 'PeeBee' and come back under another assumed name, after all!! SSDD, as the acronym goes...)

    Using the first location - Bromley - as a tester, I added to the unique visits to Rightmove for June ('unique' my @$$ - I'm on there more than Miles Shipside...!) Search criteria - 3 bed semi; one mile radius; £290 - £350k. Based upon your previous post this sounds to me exactly what you would like to buy - but correct me please if I am wrong.

    What I was hoping to do was to identify a house or two purely at random, and ask you what you thought they were 'worth' as a ball-park - and why. I am truly trying my damnest to 'get into' the mindset of frustrated (and seemingly genuine...) FTBers like yourself, and my old sparring partners rant & Sibley's... As someone who has spent nearly seventy percent of his life dealing with buyers and sellers; landlords and tenants; developers, surveyors and associated 'property professionals', I think I can pretty much handle every perspective on an equal footing when required. To understand how a Sioux Indian lives you must walk a mile in his mocassins, as the old saying goes (or is it a new one I've just made up? - I'm not sure...). So - that is why I ask you to let me in and see what you are seeing.

    Remember - I am sitting two hundred-odd miles from where you want to live. To me, the prices ARE extortionate - but so are those here 'oop North' - yet they are small coal by comparison. Location of course makes all the difference. You want your life where you want it - your perogative and one that I would not try to change your mind over.

    So - here's the problem I have - more to the point it is the problem YOU have! There are 101 such properties currently listed as available on RM, using the above parameters. Expand the criteria to include SSTC... the number skyrockets to 176!

    In other words, almost forty-three percent of the total properties that you would possibly consider as your first home are already under offer.

    I've gotta be brutally honest here, Sir. With success rates like that, there ain't no HPC happening in your neck of the woods...! There are other locations - entire REGIONS, in fact... that would consider a quarter gone U/O as a fantastic achievement - even in a better market than we are currently 'enjoying'.

    I am not saying that property prices are 'right': that they will not fall - they certainly DO and HAVE.

    But, equally true, they can and do go up. Maybe not now; maybe not for years - but one thing is for certain: The three bed semi you yearn for - the property that could well be the home to the FTB Dan family for a decade or more - will one day be worth more than you buy it for.

    REGARDLESS of how exorbitant it appears at the outset.

    And if you don't believe me, there are countless MILLIONS who have the teeshirt who would freely tell you exactly that...

    Look - I stand to make nothing out of what I say to you, so I am trying to be as neutral as possible. I ain't trying to sell you a house. You have a right to choose when and if to buy - and no-one else has a right to turn your hand. In 33 years, I have, I would honestly state, never 'sold' a single house - but I HAVE been involved in the decision process of buying of THOUSANDS of homes! To me, a buyers' happiness with their purchase is JUST as important as the seller's. I can't speak for everyone there - but I would hazard a guess that the great majority have, like me, stuck their involvement in the housing industry through thin, thinner, and the occasional thick, because it gives them great job satisfaction.

    WHEN you are ready to buy, I for one wish you every success in getting WHAT you want, at a price you can accept as being correct for the market at the time you make the decision.

    WOW! - and that was supposed to be short! Sorry...

    • 24 June 2011 00:38 AM
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    Thank you, FTB Dan. I will be back...

    • 23 June 2011 00:09 AM
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    Very well sir,

    Bromely, south station, shortlands or bickely. half to one mile.

    • 22 June 2011 17:39 PM
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    SORRY AGAIN, folks – this one simply can’t be short...

    FTB Dan: Your response confuses me. You state that you offer far more than the owners paid. That tells me and others nothing. IF they bought in 1980, and you offered thirty percent more, then that fulfils the above - however it leaves your offer two hundred and fifty percent short of what even a HPC militant would see as a 'steal' in today's money. Please (without being specific, of course...) put some meat on what you refer to.

    The bit about multi offers is another point. wardy was right in some respects – in actuality you DID in fact come across as he described - however your subsequent (and previous...) posts indicate otherwise. Look at it from the point of sellers – which whether Agents like it or not has to be THEIR viewpoint... You get an offer – way lower than you want to accept but times are tough. The Agent cannot with 100% certainty state that you WILL get an improved offer in the near future, and you want to get on with your life. The buyer seemed nice enough – so go on then. THEN... the Agent comes back with the news that unfortunately the prospective buyer had apparently offered on several properties at the same time, and have decided to go with another. Result – bitter disappointment for the seller, having agreed to a deal that they probably didn’t want to in the first place; Agent looks a complete prat to their client; and buyer gets a reputation so that, IF their proposed purchase does not go through, they will find it difficult to be taken seriously the next time. Not good for ALL parties concerned, is it?

    Why not pick the favoured property and offer on it - telling the Agent that this is your first choice however you have another you will offer on if the offer is not accepted? Puts pressure on all parties - what you currently do does not have any such effect.

    Listen (in this instance, look...) - Agents want to do business with you. Forget all the “vendor this; seller that” malarkey - they need the likes of YOU to buy the darned things so that the sellers can pay THEM!

    What you must realise is that the properties you seek are 'worth' the figures they are advertised at. Maybe not to you; maybe not to any other prospective buyer - but someone thinks that they are worth that figure - why else advertise them? Why waste time and money? And... one day... they may well sell at those figures to boot!

    In many instances the sellers simply have starship ambitions – based upon want rather than need. The human race is a greedy one – that is the reason we have wars. In many more cases, they paid these figures and therefore need wherever possible to achieve them. That is where their 'agent' comes in – and where certain HPC militants get all steamy and accusational (I think I may have just invented a new word...). The dictionary definition of Agent is "One empowered to act for or represent another" - and that is exactly what an Estate Agent is, and does. It is not "wrong" that an Agent secures the best price for a property on befalf of its owner. It is a duty that is empowered upon them by the law of the land (The Estate Agents Act 1979).

    Similarly, there are Buyers' Agents - who act in the opposite direction and aim to secure the property for LESS than its' worth for THEIR client - the buyer. Tell me – why do HPCers never seem to think about enlisting THEIR services to secure property at more realistic (in their eyes) prices...?

    People quote "2007" like it was an unscaleable wall that appeared overnight. The truth is that property price rises became unsustainable far earlier - however momentum kept the humungous ship sailing forwards.

    Let's pretend for a minute that the aforementioned ship had been able to stop on a sixpence instead of its' continued ploughing of the waves. Had prices levelled mid-2005, then things may well have been different today - although of course global recession would still have hit therefore any difference may well have been swallowed regardless. But, as the old saying goes... if my Uncle had been born with ovaries he'd be my Auntie. We cannot change the past. It happened - and its' effects are with us. How the future unfolds is to be seen - although many say that the future is simply a re-run of the past, so that being the case we pretty much know what to expect, don’t we. Some ‘downing’; some staying put – then away we go again. The same will happen IF your desired HPC occurs – only quicker. The only plus is that YOU and others will be able to do what you want to do – however the next wave of buyers will face your problem... only worse again!

    The answer is... there is no answer. As long as houses sell, there is a market. Yes – the numbers may seem unsustainable in terms of business for Agents – but that is up to Agents to plan and price their businesses accordingly. But if 27 Acacia Avenue would sell for £150k today, then it SHOULD sell for £150k tomorrow – and maybe £151k in a short while.

    Time will tell...

    Last comment - HONEST. I really don’t understand your reluctance to give me a GENERAL area and price range you would consider buying within. Come on – do you imagine for one second that Agents are going to cross-reference this against their Applicant List and single you out for unfair treatment? You are FAR more sensible and knowledgeable than that. Pick a postcode within five miles of where you would ideally like to be. That is 78.5 square miles of property. NO-ONE is going to finger you, mate – and IF they could – then I suggest they do everything in their power to sell you something (but DON’T offer on more than one at a time, please...)!!

    • 22 June 2011 12:18 PM
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    @Peebee "OR... pick a figure that would be your BEST offer. Offer it - on a take it or leave it basis. Cuts out all the cr@p in the middle. What's the worst that could happen? You offer a grand or two too much?"

    Precisely what I did do sir. I did not offer peanuts in the slightest. I offered more than both of them paid for their property by miles.

    And why two? Because so many sellers are asking 2007 prices that when I do get a weekend I want to make the most of it. I do actually want to buy a house you know.

    I seem to have been criticize on this site because someone thought I was just waiting for the crash and not offering 20% below NOW. I am also criticised for not offering on only one 2007 valued house a week when I know full well that I might as well not bother given the depth of delusion.

    I appreciate that the perfect buyer for any EA must be one that rocks up and offers full price no questions asked, but frankly the boom is over and prices have "romped away from reality". This is how it is guys, I'm surprised that when I as a ready to go funded FTB comments I just get lectured on how immoral I am for not just paying whatever some vendor decrees. Very rarely am I hearing anyone consider that the approach needs to change to suit the new reality.

    Regarding specifics, I do appreciate the offer for help. But over the internet, broadcast to all, I must respectfully decline sir.

    • 21 June 2011 18:48 PM
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    Sorry, all - but this is another PeeBee novelette!

    FTB Dan: I agree with you in part - however it has to be stated that 'HPC blog' or whatever he/she wishes to be called could easily start an argument in an empty room...

    As one who regularly corresponds with HPCers such as rantnrave and Sibley's..., as well as ousted members like Mike Wilson, I can honestly say that I find their viewpoints refreshing and challenging, and I enjoy our 'conversations'. My aim is not to argue with anyone - but I am no walk-over - and will not lie down and accept the serious accusations that this person (and others who jumped on the bandwagon who may or may not in fact be one and the same...) cast upon me and my work.

    There - nuff said I hope on that matter.

    Now then - you lead to wardy and his comments. Maybe I wouldn't have been quite so forthright - however the bones of what he said were fairly appropriate in my opinion.

    You say you offered on TWO properties. Why? Were you so worried that they would both be snapped up that you didn't want to lose out? If so - why offer peanuts for them? Sorry - but all your seasonal adjustments in the world based upon price paid +/- what Nationwide tell you will get you zilch. Might as well bark at the moon.

    Here's how to do it. Pick a property. ONE. Start bidding at a quid; then up your offer by fifty pence a day until they give in. OR... pick a figure that would be your BEST offer. Offer it - on a take it or leave it basis. Cuts out all the cr@p in the middle. What's the worst that could happen? You offer a grand or two too much?

    I VERY much doubt that will happen - but you will save yourself a load of mucking about getting to the inevitable result...

    Now then - on to the distressed sales shenanegans. Join the ambulance chasers and you will join what can be a shady set of individuals who have WAY better credentials than you do as a quality buyer, mate - previous form. Trust me - the 'bargains' will be gone before the phone rings. You will see the SOLD board glaring at you, as a sign of what you missed...

    Dan - on another thread we were discussing your property wants. I asked the following of you, but received no response (obvioously these threads took your attention...):

    "Give me some specific areas/postcodes to further research in order to fully get my head round where you are coming from. You are obviously looking - and you are in the patch. I am 200-odd miles away, so I need more to go on."

    You want a three bed semi in Kent, with a price starting with a (...high...) '2'. From what I see, there are well over a thousand 3BS on Rightmove - and prices start UNDER a 'oner'. SURELY one out of hundreds and hundreds, lights your fire?

    I'm interested...

    • 21 June 2011 18:26 PM
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    Gentlemen, may I remind you that it takes two minimum to have an argument. If you do not rise to the challenge than anyone you find offense with have nothing to goad you with nor the satisfaction of watching you react strongly.

    Secondly, It is hardly HPC alone who is inclined to launch ad hominem. On this very thread Wardy was extremely quick to make personal and disparaging remarks about what he assumed was my character based on nothing more than my stated desire not to overpay in times of severe economic uncertainty.

    If an exchange on the internet has any merit it is to hear others measured points of view based on proper thought or better yet experience. But when it just becomes a battle of wills by people who support a particular stance and are not capable of expressing why they feel a certain thing , then they discredit themselves through their own actions than you ever do by resorting to arguing back.

    • 21 June 2011 17:36 PM
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    HPC Blog: RIGHT - you dullard - I intend to state this one time only so read it s l o w l y. Okay?

    You know NOTHING about me. But for the record I will give you the background you require.

    * Born and brought up in a council house.

    * Bought three properties in my life - EACH as principle residences. NO BTL's up my sleeve... NO portfolio for my retirement fund...

    * Struggled with the payments on each of them initially - but cut cloth to suit. NO holidays; NO nights on the town; NO social life. But it was worth it eventually.

    * Two sons, both in rented properties as they cannot afford to buy their own. THIS ALONE qualifies me as a potential HPC sympathiser.

    * Overdraft which matches the debt of a small South American country.

    * Worked for sixteen years of my 33 in the property industry as an Estate Agent. NOTE - I did not OWN an Estate Agency - I was a paid employee.

    * 'Sold' THOUSANDS of houses - or NONE, depending on your viewpoint. I say none. People buy property because it is there and they want it - not because some sharp suited spiv (as you would care people to imagine the average Agent to be...) orders them to.

    Now - if you think for one second that I and every other reader on this site are unaware of the fact that there are genuine potential buyers out there who cannot afford property, then you are a bigger fool than you have already shown us.

    Furthermore, if you actually believe that it is in Agents' best interests to maintain low volumes of high-value transactions over higher volumes of lower-value, then your lamp of clarity has gone out completely.

    You say you don't post for fun. I doubt that very much.

    You must be weeing yourself silly with all the other HPC militants at the utter claptrap you post here. Still - I bet they all think you're a real hero - showing up the capitalist pig-dog as the thieving cheating scumbag he really is.

    Well - you have an opinion that you are entitled to. Problem is, your "opinion" is based upon your own manufactured wind and p**s, and could not be further from reality. What you don't know (...immeasurable...), you make up. Sorry - but none of your mud is sticking to me. But keep throwing it if it makes you feel better. Having a go at me means you are leaving others alone - and as I am already the target, it seems illogical to stem the flow of your vitriol.

    Whatever you claim, I can - and do - sleep comfortably every night, thank you very much. Can YOU say the same - when the highlight of your day has been to cast unfounded accusations across a group of people simply because they do not kowtow to your requirements?

    Lies, damn lies - and 'HPC blog' posts...

    • 21 June 2011 15:27 PM
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    There are some fabulous comments on here worthy of a Friday afternoon read. Others are worthy of the bin.

    I'm with Wardy here. As another small independant we won't take ridiculously priced properties either. However, we are not in the FTB market and out of the 7 sales agreed in the last 10 days, three went to final bids (an amazing fact because of the number of sales and the final bids!).

    I believe we have had a bit of a bounce following the bank holidays period, nothing more, nothing less.

    • 21 June 2011 14:35 PM
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    HPB BLOG/ PH - Errmm, don't buy from or sell with Estate Agents? Simples. Plenty of other platforms to enter a transaction.

    Why not use those instead, IF ALL agents are as disgusting as you make them out to be.

    • 21 June 2011 13:44 PM
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    HPC Blog........what an earth are you going on about.........

    There are plenty of EA's who are sturggling aswell.........we are actually one of the few industries who help people dispose of a property without charging them first or until the deal is complete no matter how many failed attempts that may take, therefore not adding to their hardship. We try and try and try and only take once sold......how many "con, cheats or whatever you call them" people take all the risk upon themselves?

    You seem to have latched onto PeeBee and unless you have been cheated yourself by PeeBee and can prove it, you should perhaps think before typing, however you seem to be suggesting PeeBee knows how to mind control people and MAKE them sell or BUY for that matter.......or perhaps you are just after a reaction and have nothing better to do with your time?

    • 21 June 2011 12:50 PM
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    This is not a game. We don't write for the sake of writing. There are genuine people out there that want a home but can't afford it thanks to people like you who have taken the money and ran; only to make a mess for other people to clear it up.

    PB is akin to the Pheonix 4 of MG rover and F Goodwin of RBS, only on a smaller scale. I suppose you don't understand the meaning of moral hazard.

    I know they are just words. You laugh while you sit in your ivory tower whilst others are in financial difficulty. We have less (financially) than some of you EA but at least we can look ourselves in the mirror and know that we make an honest living. Not having to cheat the 0.01% (as long as it doesn't do any harm).

    • 21 June 2011 12:25 PM
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    Mary, HPC Blog - and anyone else who cares to throw their two penn'orth into the pot...

    You seem not to comprehend - or care - that your cr@ppy attitudes bring upon you the ire of others. Yet you then attempt to throw it back in their faces as if they were the perpetrators.

    If you don't want to play on adult grounds, then I suggest you find somewhere more suitable to your level of social communication. I would imagine that such a level exists out there somewhere - the internet is vast and allegedly caters for all...

    What a the real pity is that decent HPCers such as rantnrave and Sibley's... have the uphill - if not vertical - task of making a reasoned case for their movement following the likes of you.

    You are, as 'Ambassadors' to your cause, as appropriate as Herod would be to family planning.

    Keep it up. Words such as yours - unfounded, bitter and twisted - cannot hurt those that they are directed at - however they do untold damage to the standing of who cast them.

    • 21 June 2011 11:29 AM
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    Ha! Now Im certain who HPC Blog is.

    • 21 June 2011 09:08 AM
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    @Mary and HPCblog.

    Your mantra is typical of those who know little of the industry (profession) and is wrong and rude.

    • 21 June 2011 08:48 AM
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    Thanks Mary. Unfortunately Peewee represents your typical EA who is a nouveau riche 'jack the lad' that talks with their +*/@ rather than with their mouth. If only they tried to make an honest living, we wouldnt be in this mess.

    • 21 June 2011 08:27 AM
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    up, down, up down....lets all stop commenting for a full year and look back in June 2012 and see what has happened over the year accoring to the LR - to many stats to often by too many people all amounting to meaningless numbers.

    The banter is becoming less funny as it is more and more hijacked by some idiots, perhaps just one day a month EAT should report on the findings by Halifax, nationwide etc to stop the daily 60plus post thread on why HPC people hate EA's and why EA's could not care less.

    • 20 June 2011 22:38 PM
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    PeeBee - no PeeWee, Was right the first time. As you take your moral cues from estate agents, your value or your intellect are hardly worth a mention.

    You seem happy to make all sorts of assumptions and 'inferrences!' (?) about others yourself while at the same time accusing them of doing just that. (I think you should re-sit english).

    Don't bother replying because if I thought I had your approval than I really would have problems - morally and intellectually.

    • 20 June 2011 21:19 PM
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    wardy - no. 'Pathetic' refers to someone who arouses pity or compassion through vunerability. 'HPC blog' is vunerable, all right - but by their own doing - and certainly does not arouse pity.

    I DO, however, feel genuinely sorry for anyone who has to stoop so low as to make totally false inferrences and accusations simply to try to make a point.

    Mother Nature has obviously let them down in terms of gifting them with decency, sensibility - and the power of rational thought process.

    Shame, really...

    • 20 June 2011 17:22 PM
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    Wardy - The lows he will go to never surprises me.

    Once an idiot, always an idiot.

    • 20 June 2011 17:16 PM
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    Ive got a good idea who HPC Blog is.
    All I can say is 'pathetic'

    • 20 June 2011 17:10 PM
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    HPC Blog. You walk a VERY dangerous line, my friend.

    Pity you have absolutely no idea to which side you lean - nor do you have the wisdom to walk carefully.

    Funny - I accuse you (with a wealth of evidence in hand) of questionable literacy - you however falsely accuse me of theft and dishonesty by way of response. Sorry - am I supposed to cry at this point? Offer submission, even?

    Nah - my lawyer is bigger than yours. And at £2500 per hour for libel cases - infinitely more expensive.

    But then, you would simply accuse me once again of making a fortune to the "detriment of people who want to get onto the property ladder" - wouldn't you?

    You keep your deposit. I hope you use it wisely, and at an opportune moment - unlike your words...

    • 20 June 2011 17:00 PM
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    IF Mr and Mrs Jones are looking to sell their home and have no pressure to sell quickly - who is anyone to dictate what they should be listing at?

    I wouldn't take on an unrealstic price, but some agents do - it's their perogative. If the buyer wants xx above the 2007 price, that's their choice. The agent cannot maintain a long term business plan operating like this, but it still does not defeat the fact that a seller can advertise for whatever the hell they like.

    I saw a car on Autotrader @ £7k. Another car of the same year and spec with MORE miles is £9k. So what? You don't buy it. You focus at the more appropriately priced options. There are lots of fairly priced houses out there too - you seem to forget/ignore these.

    For every seller wanting the highest price possible, there are dozens of HPC nuts looking to suck their blood dry to get a bargain.

    • 20 June 2011 16:56 PM
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    Mary. Stop smoking that stuff NOW. The fumes are fuddling US as well - we haven't got a clue what you're banging on about...

    You have taken a very strange path with your line of thinking. Feel free to return at any point when reality smacks you sensible again...

    By the way - I am NOT an Estate Agent. Your immediately blunted point being...? Most Agents I know have more morals in their little fingers that I hesitate to guess you ever hope - or expect - to have in your entire existence.

    Richard: When - and why - did I savage you, Sir? (you must have deserved it... ;o) )

    I know you say 'don't sink to their level' - but sometimes when your efforts to bring certain individuals up to yours fail, then you've just got to dive... dive... dive - and hope your hull can take the pressure! ;o)
    (Note to Mary - In case you failed to spot, through the red mist that befell your eyes, the winky smiley at the end of that one - IT WAS A JOKE!!
    Don't wet ANYTHING in your hurry to respond...)

    • 20 June 2011 16:46 PM
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    Well Peebee, you obviously got out of the game laughing all the way to the bank by stealing and lying your way there to the detriment of people who want to get onto the property ladder. I suppose its true waht they say, if you want to steal you need to steal big.

    • 20 June 2011 16:33 PM
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    Anyone know what Mary is banging on about?

    • 20 June 2011 16:23 PM
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    Well PeeBEEE. Unless someone else should have power of attorney over your affairs, then you are responsible for all of your own financial decisions.

    If someone is putting duress on you, (blackmail, for instance), you have a legal argument. But if you find you need to sell something for less than you want or buy something for more than you want to pay, you are not being cheated.

    However, it is very funny to see an estate agent set himself up as a moral beacon for the rest of us.

    • 20 June 2011 16:14 PM
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    The problem is that we have rational buyers, but emotional sellers, and when in a chain it's often the same person! What I mean is that Joe Blogs puts in a reseached offer based on last selling price, schools, improvements etc. , but at the same time, Joe's selling price for his own place is pure emotion - I paid X so it must be worth X++ where that is often beyond the street record.

    • 20 June 2011 15:44 PM
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    PeeBee, dont sink to their level, you post quality ( well but for one when you had ago at my company!!)

    Keep up the good work, your posts are worth reading mate (except 1!) unlike most HPC babies.

    • 20 June 2011 15:35 PM
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    Mary: PeeWee - ahhh... you crack me up. Like THAT'S never been used before... I was going to say "well, if it's the best you can offer" - but having read your other posts I actually see you excelled yourself with that little gem!

    ANYWAY - you say "I don't understand PeeWees post on cheating. Anyone who has agreed a price to sell (or buy) regardless of their personal circumstances is not being cheated". First of all, I was referring to the comment that HPC Blogger made earlier, which is quoted in my response - so I really struggle to see what confuses you.

    Secondly - are you SURE that your own comment is correct? That NO-ONE who has ever agreed to pay a price for something, or sell something at a price, has been cheated?

    Then, dear lady, you are as devoid of wisdom as you are of wit.

    • 20 June 2011 15:15 PM
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    Ray - is your reply to Mary suggesting that prices are inevitably going to keep falling until they reach a level that the average Joe can afford? If so, I think you are probably right...

    • 20 June 2011 15:04 PM
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    @ Ray Evans,

    Are you the patronizing in person?

    Good luck with the purchase. I hope you won't need to move any time soon and you can handle the negative equity. Prices are expected to bounce back some time in 2020

    • 20 June 2011 14:52 PM
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    .....a price that cannot be attained....at the moment!

    Had an offer accepted now have you?
    No more griping from you then.

    @FTB Dan
    Every house is individual - even one in a block of twenty.

    It's the vendors decision to sell or not, not yours - and please watch youi language!

    • 20 June 2011 14:44 PM
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    wardy - LOL

    • 20 June 2011 14:43 PM
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    FTB Dan, that is the first sensible thing you have said today. You are quite right. We do not take on unrealistic priced property. As with the majority of independents we simply can not afford to. I won’t tell how much we spend on marketing per property, but it’s a lot. We have to leave these for the corporates.
    So yes, waster vendors as well as waster HPC buyers are off the list.

    • 20 June 2011 14:38 PM
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    PeeBee, you and I may rattle sabres occasionally but I don't believe for a moment that you would bother writing under multiple IDs.

    Besides, there's only room for one dissertation writer round here :P

    • 20 June 2011 14:30 PM
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    @ Seb. Its incredible, I know. And they may well end up regretting turning your offer down. But this is why the market has stalled. Round our way more property has been withdrawn than sold. Buyers and sellers just can't agree a price. However, from your point of you, the economic conditions are in your favour if you wait, and I suggest you do. Waiting suits perspective buyers much more than vendors right now.

    I don't understand PeeWees post on cheating. Anyone who has agreed a price to sell (or buy) regardless of their personal circumstances is not being cheated.

    • 20 June 2011 14:11 PM
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    HPC Blogger: I have one identity on this site; only one - which is far more than I can say for some INCLUDING some HPC militants who have often shown themselves as multi-posters.

    Okay - to your comment. According to you, I am "...a big HYPOCRITE and ex estate agent who is 99.1% honest. Which means for every 1000th home sale he would have cheated someone. As long as it did not hurt anyone."

    WRONG!! I said 99.9% honest. Don't you go robbing me of 0.8% honesty without due cause. That's DISHONEST...

    OTHER THAN THAT - I AM, as you state, an ex-Estate Agent. And, I'm big. I'll give you that as well (but that was merely luck of course - or is it just that insults in your playground normally start with "You big..."?).

    The rest, I am afraid, is complete, unadulterated (albeit correctly spelt...) bull.

    For the record - to cheat someone IS to hurt them. They might not know it - but they are hurt nevertheless.

    Shame your spelling has improved but not the physical content of the drivel you post.

    As said before, leave the HPC contributions to those who are most capable. You just slink back under your stone and wait for the day of reckoning you crave...

    • 20 June 2011 13:53 PM
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    I agreed fifteen sales from one of my offices last week

    Not all bad out there boys and girls

    • 20 June 2011 13:38 PM
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    @Dan. Its a bit of a strange market because the EAs bill the vendors after the vendors sell the house so they are working for the vendors, not the buyers. That said, they need to get a buyer to get paid at all so ultimately their fees get paid via the buyer.. Vendors have nothing to lose by putting their house on the market and asking for whatever money they want. They pay nothing towards the marketing or the EAs services. Most professionals simply bill for professional fees not a % of the sale.

    • 20 June 2011 13:27 PM
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    @wardy “Yes I’m serious. Nobody in this office wastes time trying to sell property to people who are never going to buy. “

    Your definition of a time waster includes a couple on an above average wage with a 20% deposit and mortgage agreement in place with solicitors on standby and no chain. And you consider this couple timewasters because they only offer market price for a house (as in sold prices, not asking prices).

    May I humbly ask, when you sit down with a vendor and they tell you they want it on the market for MORE than they bought it for in the peak years what you say? Do you have the concept of timewaster vendors in your office, or is it just time-wasting buyers that you blacklist?

    • 20 June 2011 13:01 PM
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    EAs, why not have a laugh, don’t post?? and maybe, just maybe the HPC nutters would find some other web to bore senseless, how jealous can people be, its virtually paranoia!

    • 20 June 2011 12:59 PM
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    @wardy “I suspect you chanced your arm, made some pathetic offers in the hope one of the vendors was desperate enough.”

    I will give you the benefit of the doubt and answer you point. However, for the vast majority of people who read my post will already know the answer, because I stated it plainly there. I shall spell it out in more detail though.
    I use a simple methodology and it’s the same one any mortgage company surveyor would use. First I look up the price the property last sold for, which can be looked up on the internet, ask the vendor about any work they have carried out, and sense check against similar properties in the area. Then take that area price for the property type from the dates found, and run it through the nationwide property calculator which will tell you the current value. And then you have a price, that’s what I offer. Not more not less, it is entirely fair. I was not ‘chancing my arm’ I was being fair, I think any objective observer would agree.

    Regarding your point about offering on two, it is because fair offers just get rejected, and I am too busy during the week, so have to make the most of the weekend. Besides I always state in my offer that I am also offering on other properties. You say that a homeowner might be ‘extremely upset’, and that I am ‘mucking around in other peoples lives’, this is very emotive and sounds like you think mainly in emotive terms. I think any half sensible adult would take these as they come, and in the event, they just dismissed them anyway.

    In a later comment you say that I am ‘looking to profit from misery’. I don’t know what gave you that strange idea. I am looking to buy a home and live it for very many years, not flip it five minutes later. What I am fed up with is unrealistic prices and would rather view only properties that tend to be realistically priced.

    I am happy to discuss sensible and grown up logical points with you if you make any, but I have no interest in arguing about the emotion and trauma of homeowners not instantly getting whatever figure they pluck out of the air.

    • 20 June 2011 12:43 PM
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    Yes I’m serious. Nobody in this office wastes time trying to sell property to people who are never going to buy.

    Use a false name?
    You just proved my point.

    • 20 June 2011 12:31 PM
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    When the cash was flying 5 years ago I looked to buy and was mucked around by more vendors than I care to remember. 'We've had other offers as well as yours, if you can come up to £x we'll consider your offer." - was the typical line I got. My wife and I agonised and our relationship became tense as a result of the frustration of the boom years. Quite frankly, I'm more on Dan's tip and there are loads more like us. Although I don't wish ill on anyone that they lose their home through death, divorce etc - it became more apparent to me last year that these sales were the only ones where a fair market value would be reached.

    • 20 June 2011 12:30 PM
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    @ smugdog

    You don't happen to be PeeBee with a different name?

    You write similar to him. ie trying to correct other bloggers' spelling mistake but is otherwise a big HYPOCRITE and ex estate agent who is 99.1% honest. Which means for every 1000th home sale he would have cheated someone. As long as it did not hurt anyone.

    • 20 June 2011 12:27 PM
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    Ohhhh well done, that's really useful. I shall forward your comment on to Apple who will, I’m sure sort out their spell check just for you.....

    • 20 June 2011 12:26 PM
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    wardy - agents are 'marking our cards' are you serious ?!! I suggest buyers use false names when registering with estate agents.

    • 20 June 2011 12:21 PM
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    Wardy, you appear to have many of the characteristics of

    an EA.

    However, one word an EA should have the grasp of, and

    be able to spell is 'buy'.

    • 20 June 2011 12:19 PM
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    Some light at the end of the tunnel. Had an offer accepted by a vendor on Friday. Took them 2 months to come round to the idea that their house wasn't worth £30k more then they paid for it in 2008 (they hadn't done any work to it by their own admission), but at least they realised in the end.

    The EA had initially told me the original asking price was typical for the area. I told them that only one property in that area in the last 6 years had sold for higher and, unlike this property, that was an end of terrace and had an extra room. The next highest price for the same style of property I offered on was near enough to 35k less as makes no odds.

    It's so easy for us buyers to find out what local sales are like. God save the internet.


    • 20 June 2011 12:16 PM
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    Thats not what im saying Rant,

    This guy is running about making offers on multiple properties in the hope he finds a desperate vendor. In my experience these types are complete wasters. He also said in his post that he is now only considering distressed sales. In other words he is hoping to profit from somebody’s misery. He sounds like a real nice chap

    • 20 June 2011 12:13 PM
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    FTB Dan I believe you are right. I'm waiting out to late autumn and just saving. I think contagion from Greece across Europe and other bad economic bad news will make sellers see sense after months of negative media.

    Its not worth even bothering to view properties at the moment.

    • 20 June 2011 12:04 PM
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    Wardy - Much better then for people just to accept the asking prices and take on masses of debt rather than inconvenience a few people?

    • 20 June 2011 11:57 AM
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    Dan, We've stopped looking and plan on renting for at least another year. Like you say, its just frustrating getting good offers rejected without a second thought and, for our healths sake, we don't need either the massive extra debt these vendors expect us to take on or the frustration of futile house hunting. In the end, we remain flexible should our circumstances change. They're left living in a house they no longer need asking for a price that cannot be attained. My advice - forget about houses for now. Get back to it only when it makes financial sense (as opposed to emotional sense).

    • 20 June 2011 11:54 AM
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    FTB Dan,

    I’m sorry mate but you sound like a complete arse. So over the weekend you put offers in on two properties. If you wanted to by both then fair enough. I suspect you chanced your arm, made some pathetic offers in the hope one of the vendors was desperate enough.
    What would have happened if both had accepted? You then would have withdrawn your offer and left one home owner extremely upset and an agent that has been called a time waster.
    Way to muck around with peoples lives!
    I just hope the EA's in your area have marked your card and pay you the little attention you deserve.

    • 20 June 2011 11:53 AM
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    oh yes ! we all love Property Bee don't we!

    • 20 June 2011 11:48 AM
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    NI Wall - Not quite. INITIAL asking pirces are 1/3 higher than ultimate sold prices. This data from Rightmove doesn't measure any reductions beyond that first listing though. That's where Property Bee comes in, to find out if the vendor has already reduced their price.

    • 20 June 2011 11:39 AM
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    FTB Dan, you've just reminded me of a (unintentionally) hilarious anecdote posted recently by one of HPC's resident EAs:

    House marketed for 800k, vendor receives offer of 795k (less than 1% off asking), offer rejected.

    • 20 June 2011 11:37 AM
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    "Asking prices are a 1/3 higher than selling prices, that tells you something is wrong"

    maybe i should put an offer in 33% less than the asking price?

    • 20 June 2011 11:36 AM
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    It’s become farcical now. Saw another bunch of properties at the weekend, and placed offers on two of them at sensible valuations. i.e. based on what the house last sold for adjusted for the current market using Nationwide calculator, I’m not even taking anything off to compensate for the coming falls. Both rejected out of hand this morning. One of the agents, a sensible chap is privately appalled they rejected. The other agent is some young lad who does not know when to stop bullsh@tting and tells me if I don’t increase my offer to the asking price soon someone else will snap it up, it’s been on the market since Jan!

    This current market is just a total waste of my time. I’m going send an email to all the agents who are currently contacting me about properties to only forward me details of properties in the case of the three D’s. Debt, Divorce and Death. Actually dealing with a vendor is an act of total futility and I would rather spend my weekends stretched out in the park than having to wade through some Egyptian river to get to see someone house.

    • 20 June 2011 11:28 AM
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    Don't let the HPC smoking room bunch drag you down.

    They’re a rather strange brotherhood of curtain twitches.

    • 20 June 2011 11:21 AM
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    'Romp away from reality' indeed. Ol' Shipside has been a wealth of choice soundbites of late as even he can't hide his disdain at such a dysfunctional market.

    I guess it's not in his business interests for EAs to go out of business ergo reduced revenue but that's sure as heck where this is going if vendors continue to indulge (and be indulged) their paper-wealth delusions.

    • 20 June 2011 11:14 AM
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    This really is turning into a game of 'who will be the last man standing?'

    In my area one of the estate agents seems to be the only one actually selling anything at the moment. I've just noticed one of the others win two instructions - at truly, monumentally, 15% above 2007, prices.

    For those people that visit this site that dislike estate agents (I am not one of them), it must amuse them to watch an industry slowly destroying itself.

    I'm wondering how long it will be before we get an estate agent with a business model a bit like pound shops. Only, instead over everthing being £1 - the cheapest offering is £1 million.
    The vendors would love it! Get those asking prices up, up, up!

    Debt is good, more debt is better.

    • 20 June 2011 10:35 AM
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    20-30% drops in askng prices in Clapham Common ? Is it really Clapham Common, or are we talking EA language "Clapham Borders" i.e. Brixton. A few concrete examples would be nice, as I too use Property Bee.

    • 20 June 2011 10:19 AM
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    Besides all the usual thoughts re this index only measuring initial asking prices etc, I'm wondering if the increase reflects people's dire personal finances... Let's add another 25K to the price so we can pay off the credit card and car etc etc.

    The rise is mostly driven by the South though, as shown with this link:

    • 20 June 2011 09:30 AM
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    Got some sympathy for this. Our highstreets have the largest number of estate agents that the market can support IN 2007. Now that volumes are half 2007 levels, and if this asking price fiasco continues much longer it will go much lower yet, so we have a big oversupply of estate agents.

    Since agents want the business they offer the vendor what they want to hear, rather than what’s in their interest. Allowing asking prices against selling prices to hit a ratio of 1.5, or the ‘delusion ratio’ is at 1.5 if you prefer.

    The only way out is for half the EA’s on the highstreet go bust. It’s a bit cruel buts that the stark reality. The ones that survive will be the ones that manage to make a few sales, that will only be done if their negotiating skill is such that they change their vendors perceptions. If they lack this skill, good luck getting another job.

    • 20 June 2011 09:26 AM
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    We all know it to be true however if you state this to any potential Vendor they just see you as being negative and dont instruct you. Oh well, at least its not raining!

    • 20 June 2011 09:00 AM
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    As a great philosopher once said:


    • 20 June 2011 08:56 AM
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    Here we go again.
    Up, down, round-a-bout.
    Constant daily 'surveys'
    The industry is in danger of destroying itself.
    Lets give it a rest - the market will find its own level.

    • 20 June 2011 08:54 AM
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    Initial asking prices may be up but existing asking prices are now falling even in London. Property Bee is showing large drops in places light Clapham Common and other places. I am starting to see 20-30% drops.

    Asking prices are a 1/3 higher than selling prices, that tells you something is wrong.

    • 20 June 2011 08:10 AM
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