Zoopla, which has announced record traffic for last month (see next story), says it does not yet know what proportion of its membership will be faced with an increase in prices next year.
Nor is it able to say what the average hike will be.
Answering questions put by EAT – in response to various comments posted online – a spokesman said that since the merger with the Daily Mail’s Digital Group earlier this year, there had been no rises.
He said: “We are currently in the process of reviewing pricing for next year, member by member based on performance, and will be communicating with any members affected over the course of the next few weeks.
“We therefore don’t know either what proportion will be affected nor what the increases will be until this exercise is completed. That said, we remain confident that despite any increases that may take effect we will continue to be the most cost-effective marketing partner for each of our members.”
With no across the board increase, the spokesman said: “We review our members’ rates on a case by case basis, based on the service we are providing and the performance we are delivering.”
EAT also asked why some agents were apparently being charged for both Zoopla and FindaProperty when the latter appears to no longer exist other than in name.
The spokesman said that Zoopla had “never charged for specific brands, but rather for the delivery of exposure and inquiries. Our members care about the performance we deliver and the value for money we offer.”
He added: “We do not charge for brands, nor have we ever. Agents are not (nor were they pre-merger) charged for FindaProperty specifically. FindaProperty was and remains a source of inquiries to agents. That source is now powered on our platform along with many others.
“And given that the inquiries we are delivering are at record levels, agents are not paying for something they are not receiving. They continue to receive the benefits of FindaProperty now along with significantly more.”
The spokesman also confirmed that the UK’s biggest chains – Countrywide, Connells and LSL – have all invested in Zoopla and are minority shareholders – something which he said had been properly disclosed to the OFT at the time of the merger.
However, he would not say what the size of their holding in Zoopla is. The three estate agency groups were given seats on the board in July 2010.
The announcement at the time mentioned no equity investments, but said they were long-term strategic partnerships, adding: “Under these agreements, each of the agent groups will advertise all of their properties on and provide additional marketing and advisory support to Zoopla.co.uk.”
This week, the spokesman explained: “A handful of larger agency groups have invested in Zoopla Property Group but their shareholdings represent a very small minority in the business and they derive no benefits or preference over any other members.
“The investment of these groups is represented by one member on our board (out of nine). The purpose of these relationships has been to engage industry expertise and solicit feedback to ensure that our products meet the needs of the market sector as a whole.”
Although LSL, Connells and Countrywide all had seats on the board of Zoopla pre-merger, the board has now changed, with the result that the three are now represented by just one director – Grenville Turner, CEO of Countrywide.
Zoopla’s major shareholders pre-merger, as the OFT report this spring said, were venture capital companies Atlas Ventures and Octopus Ventures, plus management.
Following the merger, A & N Media (the Daily Mail) owns 55%, with the existing shareholders owning 45%. The OFT report into allowing the merger to go ahead did not go into smaller shareholders.
Countrywide recently told its shareholders that more of its leads now come from Zoopla than Rightmove.
Eight of the all-male board of Zoopla Property Group can be found here (under ‘who we are’):
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/about/
See also next story.
Comments
Just had them on the blower trying to justify their self-awarded £200/month pay rise.
Does everybody else find their vendor leads to be of similar quality to the leads Property Finder used to throw-up?
I can tell you how much the increase is had a call today and mine is 20% taking the amount to over £700 per month, will be taking a while to think this over
I frankly don't care how much profit Rightmove or any other supplier make. I care about the value for money I get from them. Rightmove is OK in termms of value, not cheap but not expensive - works out at about £5 per enquiry to me which seems to be industry average based on my basic maths - they show in their accounts about £100m of revneue and say they send about 18m enquiries, so about £5 per enquiry on average. Zoopla Property Group is better value and works out at around £3 per enquiry for our offices.
Most everyhting else we do is well over £10 per enquiry so portals are not expensive relatively speaking.
I have had good service from Zoopla and from what I undertsand it is the Zoopla not DMG folks running the show so time will tell but I am not as pessimistic as others on here.
@johnnyagent
RM's operating profit margin is 73% FFS!
You might like being shafted, I don't thank-you.
Well, boys and girls.
I could see it coming, anyone who has had dealing with DMG, will know that, profit is King, they are in it for the MONEY, not the service.
Ultimately in the end, there will financially be little difference between the costs of either Rightmove or Zoopla.
When I saw the DMG would own 55% share the writing was on the wall. Rubbish service will sure to follow.
Everyone in business has to make a profit, unfortunately some don't understand that making profit does not mean shafting your clients.
Zoopla was great the staff were great the format was great. NOW watch the rot set in.
Why is everyone on this forum so anti portals? I don't get it? Do you hate your high street bank as they make a profit off you? Your local coffee shop? Your electricity provider? Your landlord?.....It seems to me (at least for our 3 offices) that Rightmove and Zoopla are out there spending millions on advertisiing on TV, etc. and are drivign applicants and vendors to us. It is a service that could well cost a lot more if these guys didn't exist and we had to do it ourselves for our own branches. We pay both about £450 per office and that would not buy us a lot of TV adveritsing on our own! We spend money with HSBC, Starbucks, npower and loads of other suppliers as i am sure most of you do and they all make a lot more money than the portals, so why so much venom? Seems to be the same few struggling agents who spend their life on here moaning - shouldn't you be out selling houses instead and then you could afford the portals?
Marketing is a basic cost of doing business and portals are cheap for any decent agent by comparison to everything else (hope Rightmove and Zoopla don't read that...but it is true).
Quick question. I am looking to try radarhomes as they are owned by us (estate agents) and I believe they have a new website comming out as their existing one is not up to much. Question is, has any body used them and had any success?
We are a small independent, one office business. Our rightmove rep is comming to see us next week. We have been told recently by the rep that rightmove want to charge us per 50 properties - yes one full monthly fee per 50 properties. Their excuse is other agents have several offices in the area and they pay per office (they have over 100 props per office). They are going to force us out of business. We already pay £600 for sales and just under £200 for letttings which is high any way. If we dont use them all the other local agents will simply say to vendors "you dont want to use them, they are not on rightmove". I feel like we are a bit screwed either way.
We could pay RM and Zoopla based on results! How about 10% of our fee io they introduce an applicant who completes.
I wish these property sites would allow sellers to just pay to market their properties directly. Would remove estate agents altogether, as they add no value at all to a sale. The floorplans and particulars don't have to be accurate, a solicitor is still needed to transfer ownership, and a surveyor is still needed to ascertain market value. So, what do estate agents actually do?
Total rip off.
Those who were on only Zoopla are paying their Zoopla fees only and still on Primelocation and Findaproperty.
Those who were on both are still paying both fees.
Like I said Total Rip off.
Us Agents should have the confidence to move from Zoopla to Rightmove and vice versa to stop them treating us like cash cows.
Now we know why Countrywide said they get more "leads" from Zoopla than Rightmove. Because as shareholders they have a vested interests in saying so. Looked unbelievable when they said it, now we can be sure that it simply is not true.
Zoopla and TDPG £200 at the moment. Awaiting the letter about the increase. Then it will be a case of forget it.
I have been doing this, 'stuff yourselves' thing for the last few years and I always seem to get it cheaper.
Knowing the merger of Zoopla, was about to happen, I cancelled my contract premerger. I paid TDPG £200pcm. Next thing I was back on Zoopla, still paying the same amount for both.
Like you, many on here have been in business for many years but unlike you they're not arrogantly telling everyone how to do business. I think they're doing fine so thanks but no thanks for the advice.
Once again you presume to know your colleagues, and that they are failing and you're so obtuse that you think yours is the only way forward.
Clearly you're over compensating for something that surgey can't mend but don't take it out on us. Better to take pride in your achievements than cast doubt on others but I guess you have more than one stunted attribute.
Just been told our increase will be £399 + Vat....Bye Bye
@ wardy - yes i do have problems with laying out my thoughts, but not bad for a guy with dyslexia considering i seem to have a firmer grip on busness then most here.....
Div, Bore off and tool - Okay - think you have undermined your own arguement with those comments and no substance to your views. Thanks for making my views even clearer. I love the fact i have competition like you!
So Mr Boring owns his own one office agency, in one of the most competitive parts of the uk and charges twice the fee everyone else does.
Apart from the obvious BS the man has trouble stringing a paragraph together.
Boring, you’re right. Your intelligence isn’t in question. I think everyone reading this has made their minds up already.
Boring, your intelligence is absolutely in question. You have come across as a complete tool. Although your attempts of matching the public's stereotype of an estate agent is on the money.
If you are all taking it to heart then you know i am right! You are just too full of self-importance to actually look at yourself in the mirror and admit your current business model does not work in this climate!
What you did 10/15 years ago will not work now! - try changing something! You all bleat on about the cost.... Why not pass the cost on or come off rightmove and zoopla?! - If you only have 10 properties to sell do you need them? if yes and your 70 properties under management are generating you a nice (i'm guessing) £3,500 - £4,000 pcm push your fees up or concentrate more on sales, if you are a 2 man office employ a third maybe on a commission only basis to push your sales, people are crying out for jobs, think about how you can change your system so it works for you!
And i can say all this because i have been in the business 15 years, i have my own office in probabley one of the most competative areas in the uk where my fee is almost double my competitors. I only have one office, and i do not moan about the fees, yes i wish they were lower (like business rates, telephone, postage, tax etc)
As you can see my intelligence is not in question, is yours?
@another small independent, that was myself who wrote the below comment and forgot to put my monika in there.
Rightmove are not insisting that you pay them vast sums though are they? Either you do it or you don't. Simples.
You, and others can complain about RM all you want, everybody knows their business model, you stay and pay, or you simply leave, they don't care. For every agent that leaves. there is another agent that opens a shop or an online thingy.
You have been going 25 years, so you have expereinced life before the interweb.
BORING!
Stop being a DIV, don't presume to know that the majority of your colleagues can't justify their own fees. Your arrogance is only matched by your lack of deference to the other agents on here.
Concentrate less on your big knot tie and consider the fact that in 'stepping off your soap box' your height now equally matches your intelligence.
@ BORING!
Ever had your own business, Estate/Letting agents?
On the point though, i would turn down 0.5%. Just not worth it
In response to the unnamed commentator below. We, and I suspect others like us, are happy to be a small independent business with a stock of about 70 management properties that are with us long term. What we are objecting to is the likes of Rightmove, who we strongly supported in their beginning, now insisting that we must pay the same high prices that much larger agents are paying. We agree that larger agents are generally getting good value for money compared to what they would previously have been paying for paper-based advertising. We do not see why we should go out and grow our businesses just to feed the greed of the portals (that we helped grow). In our case, our business has been established almost 25 years, and we are happy with it the way it is.
The question remains: why should a small business with a handful of properties being advertised pay the same as a big business with perhaps 50 to 100 properties being advertised. Why???
Loving you boring thats great lol
And another thing.................!!!!!!
If you were out with a vendor and for arguments sake you are charging them 1.5% to sell and the vendor says "How much!" i only want to pay 0.5% you will either be a weak agent say ok! or how about 1% but i bet very few of you have the skill and confidence to stick at 1.5% and justify your fee!
Just because your poor sales people do not take it out on the portals that feed you! Without them you are nothing FACT! They know it and you know it, we created the montster now learn to live with it, try increasing your fees to pay for it!!!
Now stepping off soap box....
Why dont we all just agree to stop marketing on thier website for 4 months and only use the alternative RM or others, see how they get on then, we could then do the same with RM
Oh no of course this wont work because we are all indepedants fighting for the same business, how else can we show that we are business's also looking to make money.
Z and RM actually dont care whether you market with them or not because the next agent will, think about it 1 property to sell 2 or 3 agents instructed 1 of them will use both 1 or the other, it does not matter to Z or RM, shame newspapers are so expensive, perhaps agents should create thier own websites and fight for the business of advertising, oh that wont work either becasue of the cost restrictions,,
Lets face it monster's have been created by us the agents and now they are ruling the way we work and advertise but remember even the dinosaurs are extinct now well except for the Crocodiles and alligators, umm I see a resemblence with them and Z , RM , they will survice and eat anything in there way.
We will have to live with them unfortunatly .
I am no expert in this but it strikes me Zoopla are in danger of taking on the mantle of Right Move 2 i.e. gain a big enough market share and then dictate prices in one direction - upwards.
What a pity
We hate Rightmove ....... We hate Zoopla!!!! - They charge us too much its not fair!!!!!!
Guys and Gals they are a business!!!!! They are there to MAKE money!!!! - If you only have 10 properties, why not grow your market share, Go out and find the business, if you have 150 properties showing think how cheap it is then! - sorry that actually might mean stepping away from your keyboards!
"If only there was another site!?" - Oh wait Globrix is free!!!! - Sorry thats not good enough for you?! - oh because nobody goes on it and you dont get much from it?!
Stop your moaning, either pay it or come off it! or better still do some proactive agency and grow your stock, list more houses = selling more houses = more revenue = more money to throw at RM and zoopla!
There seems to be a lot of 'talk the talk' regarding the major portals.
In my view the monthly subscriptions are bringing in profitable business - or they are not. If they are what is the problem? If not what is the point of continuing?
Time to 'walk the walk' and devise other ways.
To those of you that say you only have an avergae of 5-10 properties on at a time, and sometimes even none, is it worth keeping your doors open?
I agree its a lot of money to pay when you have no properties on, but surely your monthly subsription fees would be better off ploughed into other avenues to boost your property stock.
This statement is totally untrue -
Answering questions put by EAT – in response to various comments posted online – a spokesman said that since the merger with the Daily Mail’s Digital Group earlier this year, there had been no rises.
Is there a way to scan and post a letter on here to show my increase to £879 per month from Zoopla? Maybe then they could erm and umm and change there story again.
Also the increased leads from them are great had 43 last month from the same 4 people...very keen individuals or are they just making up rubbish
Countrywide, Connell, LSL they all wax lyrical about Zoopla because it's in their significant financial interests to do.
When they first joined up I was assured and encouraged from the highest level in these companies that all they wanted to do was to" ensure that there was a credible alternative to RM and nothing else" Well the truth is out now waht a decietful bunch of narcissistic liars -
the Whistleblower now announces that low and behold they all have a very significant financial interest in Zoopla ! ( whilst a 10% stakes might sound small I calculate that 10% of Rightmove would be worth more than all these companies 2011 profits combined )
So their end game is obvious - worse still whilst they encourage the rest of us to "join Zoopla and defeat RM " they, unlike the rest of us are not paying twice !
They must have a right laugh at our expense at their cozy Zoopla board meetings - we are being mugged and we are thanking them for doing it to us!
if they dont know there pricing then how come i got this email from one of there regional guys, they have never been up front and you are just creating another monster for profit
Having discussed this at the highest level, we are unable to look at any discounted rates for new business below our new rate card figures. You have acknowledged how inconsistent our prices have been in the past and in the new world of ZPG, we intend to be more consistent with new business pricing.
We would be delighted to have your listings on site and believe we can add value to your business. We can offer you a sales only rate of £250 per month per branch for 3 months, that is a 50% discount from our new rate card and gives you coverage across Zoopla, Primelocation and Findaproperty and many of our online media partners including The Times online, Daily Mail online, Independent online, Telegraph online, Thisis via Northcliffe, MSN, AOL and many more. From month 4 this rate increases to £325 per branch. Please note that there is an additional charge to add lettings to your account.
I look forward to hearing from you in due course.
Kind regards
Nick Ball
@ Bollinger +S A Longden + Steve
Completely agree with you. At times we have no properties on the market at all, still have to pay monthly subscriptions to the big portals. On average we have less than five available at any one time and we strongly resent having to pay the same as those with much higher volumes.
Anonymous Coward
First off stop hitting the return key at the end of every sentence, it doesn't make the content anymore important or inviting to the reader. Next you might want to try proof reading before hitting the send button because, given your verbose nature the last thing you should put on display is poor syntax.
Save the proverbs, stop stating the obvious and reign in the pious overtones; just give us your opinion and get to the point quickly!
We used to use both the Digital Property Group (findaproperty & primelocation) along with rightmove.
We only stopped using rightmove as we weren't getting the leads to justify the £600+ they wanted per month, which for a small Independent agent is beyond ridiculous.
@chrislondon - no, adding the logo adds nothing. The enquiries come in for the property, not how fancy your logo is. In my area (Manchester) all of the corporates use it (because it's free for them!!!), most of the smaller guys don't bother. Really it should be there anyway, and RM know this.
Spend the £25 or so extra on improvements to your own website to drive more traffic directly to you, not one of the portals.
@anonym cow i have just added our logo to rm because I notice nearly every agent except ourselves has it. Do you not think it gives a small agent a bit more respectability & trust as well as raising profile to landlords and vendors?
@salongden et al
I completely sympathise with the small guys - I'm one too and the prices I'm paying for their service IS extortionate & unbalanced compared to the big guys whatever anyone else says. I guess we're not allowed to compare prices tho'!
I think that it follows the old proverb...
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
But both RM & Z are there to make money for their shareholders.
That's what their business is there for.
They do that by providing a service to you the estate agent, which both companies perform very well if you ask me.
There reach and penetration of the buying/ renting general population is staggering and they have spent a fortune to get there.
If you don't like it walk away and keep your money in your pocket - but I have no idea how you would compete for your applicants.
The one thing that I would suggest that ALL agents do is to steer away from their additional products.
As far as I can tell they are all a waste of money.
I haven't noticed a single increase in traffic for any of their home page banners, microsites or premium property lisitings.
And I have been keeping a very close eye on it.
@ Steve This is how findaproperty started. The pricing was based on "per property" subject to a minimum monthly charge (which as I recall, and this was only 10 years ago, about £40 per month) . Perhaps small agents should mount a high profile legal challenge?
@ Bollinger +S A Longden
I am the same, the websites rm, DPG and Zoopla have never been able to give a good answer to my argument that I use less space have less homes to advertise (so receive less leads) yet have to pay the same as an agent placing 75 homes or more.
There should be a structure whereby if you have 15 or less it is one charge and for above this another slightly higher charge and any site doing this would surely draw in more agents.
@ S A Longden
I agree. We are similar - a handful of properties. We tried to take this up with OFT under anti-competition legislation as we felt the pricing structure was (is) biased towards the larger agents. Our argument was that there was no alternative pricing structure for a small agent, and this was therefore against the spirit of the legislation. They told us not to waste our time!
As a small firm with only ever about 10 properties, Rightmove was charging nearly £500/month. Zoopla took us on for 6 months at a more reasonable charge, and we are waiting to see what transpires. It is not right that a small firm is charged the same as a large firm or chain of agents.
Ok bring it on: which website should we all go on that is free but becomes huge because we have brains and come off rightmove and zoopla...we then become shareholders and enjoy an income from advertising revenue.
another GRRRRRRRRREAT story about Zoopla
Is it just me, or is there something rather fishy about:
"Countrywide recently told its shareholders that more of its leads now come from Zoopla than Rightmove."
And now we find out that "Countrywide, Connells and LSL – have all invested in Zoopla"
Just seems wrong!
I have already queried with Zoopla why I am being charged the combined zoopla and dpg charges when by their own public statements they are only doing half the work (transferring all the processing to zoopla servers and only advertising the zoopla brand). If they do not answer my queries I am simply going to cancel my membership. Despite, what they say the number of combined applicants has actually fallen to my agency not increased. While the present zoopla advertising is better than the truly dire DPG adverts that were being put out at the end they are still pretty weak.
Well done everybody for creating a 2nd Rightmove.
Mr In The Know!
If you were, as you say, one of the lawyers working for DMGT - shouldn't you be very worried about breaking client confidentiality and be worried about being thrown out of your very learn'd profession?
I would be.
But then I Am Not A Lawyer.
Big Business Does as Big Business Does - usually on behalf of their shareholders!
You'll certainly be an EX-LAWYER after that!
As one of the ex-lawyers who worked for DMGT, I know for a FACT that Countrywide, Connells and LSL were each given a 10% equity stake for FREE PRE-MERGER.
This has been diluted to 6.33% EACH for FREE.
The deal was give equity FREE to the big boys to FORCE all the smaller agents to use Zoopla and then silently on a case by case basis hike agents fees each year to a target price of £2,500 per month per branch!
You've all be warned!!