A dozen estate agents are about to launch as buyers’ representatives – whilst still acting for sellers.
The founder of Homebuyer Centre, Tim Hammond, described it as the “next chapter in estate agency”.
He said agents would now be able to add a new revenue stream to their businesses.
Homebuyer Centre agents started road-testing the franchised concept last month, but are only now about to go properly live.
They will utilise a form of multi-listing, and access every property for sale in the area – not just their own stock – on behalf of buyers.
Hammond said: “The integration with existing estate agents is a radical yet obvious move, since we have comprehensively overcome the issue of conflicts of interest.
“Working in conjunction with well-known estate agency consultant Richard Rawlings, we have devised a way of enabling estate agents to extend their existing skills to their considerable advantage whilst enabling them to access their competitors’ stock. The average minimum fee is over £3,000.
“The Homebuyer Centre is all about making the process more efficient for buyers whilst invigorating the agent’s business. Rather than having to search through all the property portals or registering with numerous estate agents in the area, buyers can just contact their local Homebuyer Centre and access all the properties on the market through a knowledgeable local agent who has all the contacts and who is actually on their side.”
The system allows an agent to offer a registered buyer (who must be able to proceed unencumbered) a represented service. On receipt of instructions, the agent then helps the buyer find and subsequently negotiate on the right property.
The agent arranges all the viewings on their client’s shortlist and coordinates the mortgage, survey and conveyancing under one roof. Buyers also have the benefit of surveyor-accompanied second viewings.
Clients pay nothing up-front but are charged 15% of the saving their Homebuyer Centre representative agent is able to secure off the latest asking price, with a minimum of 1% of the purchase price.
Richard Rawlings said: “I have long argued that buyer representation is overdue in the UK, and the timing is perfect. An exclusive Homebuyer Centre licence should be a no-brainer for agents, especially in view of the arm’s length sub-brand, minimal set-up costs, training and marketing support.
“It’s a great way of ensuring that every proceedable buyer delivers revenue into an agency – not just a lucky handful.
“There is much more to this than meets the eye and agents should be in no doubt that this could just be the solution that their business needs. Those who are first to market will see significant returns.”
A series of monthly roadshows are planned across the UK, the first being in Watford this Thursday.
www.thehomebuyercentre.net where you can link to the public site
www.thehomebuyercentre.com where you can also hear the latest radio ad
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Comments
Tim: Don't you worry that you have "got my back up" - you haven't. This is not about me - it is about you and your venture.
As far as 'higher ground goes, you will be mock astounded to learn that I have firm grip of the fact that I am speaking from the same ground that you or anyone else walks on. In fact, the lengths to which you have gone to put me in my place indicate clearly that you feel I am the dirt between the treads of your loafers therefore WELL beneath you. Fine. Knock yourself out doing it some more, if you want.
(By the way - I would be absolutely astounded if I knew more about Estate Agency than ONE person out there who actually is a currently practicing Estate Agent. THAT has never been an issue here, I believe, so I wonder why you bring it up...)
Anyway - I'll get back to my delusions, shall I?
PeeBee
The issue with you NOT being an Estate Agent is that you are portraying yourself as someone on a higher ground than most other posters on this thread (myself included). I think that Estate Agents probably know a bit more about estate agency than you do.
Now you say that you could be one of our customers - I don't think we'd want you to be (with all respect) - luckily we can pick and choose who we work with.
I'm going to leave it at that . Any further bickering from you on this post will be seen by readers as being due to the fact that I have now got your 'back up'. As evident from your long -wind filled - previous posts.
The longer your message the more deluded you appear to be.
Tim
Tim: I am sorry thast you take serious exception to my use of the phrase 'ducking and diving'. I refer you to others -
James - "Clearly you have time to answer back, but not answer the question"
wardy - "Neither of you have managed to answer any questions raised by us, your potential clients so you can poke your bourbon creams."
wooden top - "I have not had my OFT question asmnwered so I have contacted them myself ...."
James - "I refer to my earlier question which you have not answered"
wooden top - "I'm your customer and this how you and RAT professional way to treat them. Ignore, rubbish, misrepresent (your actions not mine), fail to listen etc."
That is how THEY describe your actions - yet you do not seem to mind that in the least.
AHHH! - I get it. "PeeBee... you are not even an estate agent !
So why are you on this forum?" Of course - THEY are your potential customers and I am clearly not! So whatever you say to me is immaterial. EXCEPT, of course, that one of your HomeBuyer Agents might just work in my area, and I might be tinking of using them to sell through or buy through.
I frequent this site, Tim, because I can. It is public domain - and I am a member of the public. I am also, as you suggest, an ex-Agent (not hard to work out seeing as I have said it on here dozens of times and you must have already read many of my posts to come up with your earlier statement that I never have anything constructive to say...) - but your suggestion that I have an axe to grind puzzles me. Grind with what? The Agency profession in general? Buyer Representation? I have opinions on what is good and bad in the property industry, simple as that. I live there. It is now 11.30 pm on a Friday night and I am still at my desk. I care enough about the industry that keeps a roof over my family, and well fed, to respond to you at this late hour.
I wonder when you will read it...
"And why are you having a dig at progressive agents?" Progressive? Talk me through that one, please. Isn't progress a step forward? So how can beating DOWN vendors' expectations on price be hailed as "Progressive Agency"? You should team up with the Realising Reality bloke - he has your dream in his sights also! I see nothing pro-active about your service - simply reactive to a market where it is easier to talk down a vendor a few grand and charge the buyer an equal or larger fee than you would earn selling the property. Win:win - FOR THE AGENT, in my eyes!
How do Iarrive at this conclusion? In all of this, you offer one example of how your service operates: "I'll give you one that we helped move house recently in Oxford.
Professional couple renting, budget of £250k inc fees for their first home. We looked at everything available in their price range that met their spec and helped them buy a property that had just come on at £260k for £232k. With our fees of £4.2k = £236.2k" Hmmm - 'just come to market' - yet they take a 10.75% hit on the asking? Smell the coffee - the vendor took an acceptable offer end of! Hey - good for you that there are buyers out there who have that kind of money they are prepared to give to you instead of looking at a house with, say, a better kitchen fitted. Their choice. Get them while you can. All I will say is, your HomeBuyer Agent certainly didn't come up against any of the staff I have trained over the years...
Your parting shot - "You just like the sound of your own voice at the expense of others." I don't HEAR anything, Tim. This is the written word, not spoken. I heap praise where it is justified; where it is deserved; where it is earned. I question matters which I do not agree with, or I seek further information on matters I do not fully understand until I am able to form an opinion.
But, for the record - no, I don't like the sound of my own voice... NOWHERE NEAR as much, however, as YOU have come to dislike it!
This ain't personal, Tim. This is for what I would argue to be the good of the property industry. Come up with a GENUINE marketing initiative - one that I (or the wooden tops, wardys, AceofSpades, Ray Evans etc who SHOULD and DO raise their concerns over matters which affect their industry...) cannot find a negative slant on - and I will back you to the hilt!
Not that you'd want to hear me, of course... ;0)
Ermmm!
PeeBee, you have said yourself earlier on this thread that you are not even an estate agent !
So why are you on this forum?
And why are you having a dig at progressive agents?
Perhaps you're an ex-estate agent with an axe to grind.
I do take serious exception to you referring to myself as ducking and diving on here - as clearly that is not true.
You just like the sound of your own voice at the expense of others.
Mark: I am sure you will be 'dropping in' again at some point...
Yes, it is remarkable that this storyline attracted 130 responses. Take away the cunicism; the natural suspicion of differentiation; the 'fear', even, of change, then you still have to be impressed and figure that, as we are all told in slaes school, that an objection is simply a question that requires answering.
SO WHY NO ANSWERS? You have the might of Richard Rawlings behind you - the world-renowned "expert in the field" whose own website boasts that "we seek to ensure that you leave a meaningful, intelligent and sustainable impression on your prospects and clients." Well - HE has certainly left a sustainable impression - and not for the first time on this site. The RR dummy was spat out at a very early stage of the proceedings - making me seriously consider attending one of his motivational training sessions...
Then - the Man With The Plan; the mind behind the whole shebang. Tim H - whos best response to me amounted to "... your name seems to come up on EAT several hundred times and you don't seem to have anything constructive to say about any thing." Hmmm - I prefer to describe myself as "inquisitive" - but, hey, anyone is entitled to their opinion... The thing is, for all Mr H knows, I could be owner of a multi-branch Agency who is genuinely seeking further information.
There are those who comment that Mr H has handled himself with composure, decorum - dignity, even. Fine - but the fact remains that he has ducked and dived at every opportunity and therefore the credibility flies out of the window.
YOU, on the other hand, seem to live and breathe the concept - and seem to be a willing Ambassador for the cause. More human approach, also. With this thought in mind, may I just ask you why, if you are so pro-HomeBuyerCentre, there is no mention of its' existence whatsoever on your website? You have a page dedicated to what you call 'The Home-In Service' - which I take to be this - but no real information; no explanation that a cost will be incurred - I would therefore expect it for free! On your list of "Services" (12 in total) it falls in at Number ELEVEN! Blimey - even "Architectural Partnered Service" ranks higher - and I would have thought that netts you about £2.50 a year in referral fees!!
In your third post on this subject, you state "It's worth looking at the market place we are currently in, it's a buyers market" Yes - so in that case surely the need for increased SELLER representation is called for? In a SELLERS market, the buyer needs all the help they can get. At present, the press et al continually drive the idea into the heads of Joe & Jane Public that houses are not selling; prices reducing hourly - if you are therefore a committed buyer you seemingly have the upper hand already, don't you?
It is a real shame that this storyline has dropped below the horizon for most readers on the site. So many unanswered questions - so little apparent confidence in the system.
Fear of change - or resistance toward change for the Hell of it?
Oh my word!
I thought I would pop back in on this discussion ( I think that's what it's called?) to see if there were any further comments.... 130 now!
Tim & Richard, all I can say is that I think you have a lot of opinions and some very strong views on what should be the right way to do things.
I hope that most of these comments from the site users are coming from business owners because there's one thing I have noticed... If you were given the opportunity to promote your business in a time of financial uncertainty, a tough economy and on a platform that allows you to reach your target market in an instant for a realtively small amount of investment, wouldn't you take it?
What I'm trying to say is that we should be constructive with our views towards any new venture or business. Tim and Richard have commented to the majority of the views, buy blimey! should they be expected to defend their business to people who clearly will never want to sign up in the first place! As a business owner, I would happily answer any questions someone would have on my services, but I realise i wont be able to appease everyone and I think that Tim and Richard have made that quite clear.
It's funny how some take the moral high ground in these forums. I must admit, I read these comments on all the news stories and sometimes chuckle that I would never slate a new business opportunity unless I knew the full facts. Perhaps if you have questions you could just email TIm or Richard, or even pick up the phone like most people would?
I wonder what you would do if there wasn't a comment system in place under this article.....? Pick up the phone? Email them?
Or it could be that you are just happy to comment on here... yeah, that'll be it, much easier!
;-)
PS. I dare you to put your new business idea up for debate on here and expect to defend the 100 (ish) comments and questions just by using a commenting system, that actually doesn't allow you to respond to a persons comment directly. Come on guys lets support new business, embrace new ideas and if you dont' want to sign up on it then that's fine, move on.
Thanks, but actually our business is being rolled out in a very proper manner. We had a good number of agents at our Watford open evening. all questions were answered thoroughly and as a result we will be opening many more branches up and down the country. The open evening format has proven very popular and very constructive for all involved - and we will continue to hold these monthly.
For yourself and any other agents who are unable to attend I would be happy to attend a Q&A session hosted by EAT if they would oblige.
Tim
Hello again, Tim. There is an impasse here which has no simple solution. You wish not to answer questions of Estate Agents and interested parties saying that this is not the right platform (yet you have ALL our attentions - so what better platform is there?) but want all to come to your little local drop-in events. Here's the thing. I live in the frozen north. Your 'local' events are Manchester or... erm... actully, that's it. ONE to cover the whole of the North of England - and that's in SEPTEMBER!
Come on - are you SO unsure of the business model and its' potential that it gets rolled out in such a poor manner?
Surely you can handle a structured Q&A session co-ordinated by EAT? I am certain that Ros and Nat would be more than happy to oblige as their readers are more interested in this subject than pretty much any before...
Yet again - agents are commenting on this without understanding our business model fully. And nor would I expect them to without actually speaking to us or meeting with us.
If you have an observation on our business that's great - as the more input we have the better the offering will be for the homebuyer as we develop the services out further. But please let's not comment as if what you are saying is fact.
To clear your point up. Our buyers retain our agents as sole buyer's agent. All time spent by the agent is therefore then covered by the success fee at completion. Our agents have bought houses for over 90% of their retained buyers, whilst I suspect that selling agents achieve sales on a much lower % of their assets. So buyers agents have a higher certainty of achieving a return from their clients than selling agents do.
If you work for the buyer and they retain you to buy for them, then you are not restricted to just your own stock and you will in the vast majority of cases end up with a completed transaction.
Any further comments on this please email me or lets arrange time for a chat.
Tim
Sure Tim. Agents register applicants and take them on viewings, but they don't invest too much time per applicant. Vendors are much more committed to seeing the process through as they have a fixed asset they wish to dispose of. So "no sale no fee" is a reasonable balance of opportunity. If one of your buyers can use your service without paying for it, you could end up doing one hell of a lot of unpaid work, only for the buyer to either give up looking or buy elsewhere. To demontrate this, look at the registers of a typical Agency. Say, three new instructions a week, verses 35 new applicants. 32 will therefore go spare. Agents would love applicants to pay to register.
Jimmy, I don't understand your comment. Please explain.
"Clients pay nothing up-front" Oh dear.
Why, thank you, Gourmand Gossip, for your kind words.
I can only be appreciative of the fact that some people on here (and I know there are a few...) actually agree with what you have said - which is completely accurate. The property industry is my life, and I care passionately about it.
One thing puzzles me in all of this. Am I the only one that finds it slightly perverse that I do what I do; say what I say - and yet I am NOT an Estate Agent? ;0)
Good post Tim!
I have enjoyed it too, most new ideas get a very thorough examination here, and most don't get through!
The EATers who post regularly have been around for a long, long time and their opinions are often very valid.
You probably have a skin thick enough to take the robust discussion and I am sure a few of the points raised might mean a few tweaks to your business model.
There are a lot of wrong things going on in this Profession right now and people with little or no knowledge are trying to call the shots.
There is clear evidence of a Turkey Shoot going on in the industry right now (if you know where to look) I think you got caught up in the crossfire that is coming from many directions.
Personally I think your initial snipe at Peebee was un-called for. He is one of those who is a strong supporter of best practice and professional Estate Agency. His comments only ever seem to be aimed at preserving what little respect for our Profession is left.
I do hope things go well for you but I am going to stick to Vendor representation. I look forward to negotiating with your finest! You have seen what we are like; I hope you train your franchisees well. Dale Carnegie should be required reading for the course. (Get Richard to read it first)
Yours
Gourmand G.
The readers of this column can make their own mind up as to whether I have shown integrity and professionality in responding to comments on here. I have returned many times to answer your posts. (inc one about the OFT which I answered comprehensively).
Our business challenges convention and so will quite naturally raise lots of questions - the format of this comment system makes it impossible to answer them so that each reader can get a full appraisal of how this business may benefit them. So I have on many occasions suggested that readers who want to ask questions and listen to questions raised by other readers attend one of our monthly open evenings.
The majority of readers on here will understand this and I am therefore happy to keep this offer open for all of them.
Let's examine the opportunity fully to ensure that those agents who do want to earn additional revenue from buyer representation - with or without us, can do so properly and without conflicts of interest, and whilst protecting interests of the consumer at all times.
Best regards and thanks to everyone for a fun week !
Tim
Tim: Unfortunately, I am unable to travel the 250-something miles in the next 15 minutes, so I will have to pass up on your kind offer (although I am certain that it wasn't an open offer and you wouldn't want me there anyway...) I will, therefore, have to continue my questioning on this platform in the diminishing hope of receiving answers. BUT, if nothing else I am persistent, so I will persist accordingly.
I appreciate the risk of you regurgitating "Copying parts of websites is and misinterpreting them is not clever !", so I will put it in first for you.
I will not misinterpret - no misinterpretation needed - nor possible - I would suggest. I will simply cut, paste - and leave the rest to the wider audience.
On the 25th, in one of your many posts you stated "This is not about making a quick buck or doing seller's or their agents out of money."
On your website homepage, the fourth 'slide' entitled "Save Money" opens to reveal the words "and negotiate the lowest price for you." Click on 'Find Out More', and the following is there to tempt prospective customers: "We work exclusively for the homebuyer to get you the lowest price (rather than normal Estate Agents who want to get the highest price for the vendor). As professional 'buying agents' we use our negotiating skills to get the estate agent to knock off as much money as possible so you get your next home at the lowest possible price."
The twitchiness of replies suggests a lack of confidence underneath.
One needs belief and total confidence when going into a new venture, especially one as antagonistic towards genuine agents who are there to protect their vendors from speculative low offers.
Good agents will have well priced stock that they will not need to undermine further, and will stand by their clients every time. Poor agents will have the ability to ditch the seller and side with the buyer.
It will be interesting to see if it is policed at all. Surely the franchisor will be happy to turn a blind eye so long as they are getting their fees from the franchisee - or maybe not - we shall see.
If you can get to the Watford Hilton hotel for 6pm I'll answer any questions in person. All the best. Tim
I still commend Tim for his approach to this debate and think at least he has had the courage to return on several occasions to a fairly strong debate. If this were Dragon’s Den I would recommend he ditches the Aggressive bloke with the ego and gives it a go. The pitch would have gone far better without the unwarranted attack on the audience.
I know someone who has watched this debate and commented to me that Tim isn’t far off a good idea. However it is too close to the retained applicant model that works for most who bother to be something worth buying a franchise for. Once it is an established, separate, industry that negotiates with Agents, the idea will take off.
It’s a pity for Tim that most folk with a long memory will buy a franchise from a company that didn’t attack them when they simply wanted questions answered.
The two Franchisees that posted didn’t help the cause Tim.
Good Luck Tim, a week is a long time………..
Spotty Dog was my hero as a kid!
Tim, I have never slung any dirt, to the contrary please wake up and listen to your customer, theres a good fellow.
I have asked questions and raised issues about a venture that you expect me and my fellow agents to get into bed with. A piece of sound business advice which you seem to lack (no insult intended and sorry Spotty Dog).
Before getting into bed, get to know your fellow partner.
I'm your customer and this how you and RAT professional way to treat them. Ignore, rubbish, misrepresent (your actions not mine), fail to listen etc. Now I wonder which RAT sales technique that came out of. And you expect me to want to do business with you, your having a laugh.
Both of you stop thinking your marvellous, many don't agree and no mate you won't succeed with it in Estate Agency. Any agent that goes anywhere near your current business model will loose his vendors stock once the word gets around he's more ineterested in getting a drop in sale price for being paid by the buyer, even if it's not true. The word will get around and many a competitor will put the knife in. Can't you see that? There will be all sorts of stories flying around, mostly untrue of backhanders, under the table, I was wripped off by my agent etc. Yes you'll get some success but the shelf life is alot shorter than HIPs and very short once the regulators see the complaints start to flow in.
I do passionately care for my fellow estate agents not wise enough to know what they could be getting into. (hence forum debate). It is they that will suffer the most if your venture fails. You'll just move onto another good on paper idea, what about the misery you left behind? We shall see what transpiries but you don't need to be a rocket scientist on this one. Alot of leg work, limited customers for viabile proposition and very high risk in more ways than one.
Have you buyer centres, but keep out of estate agency, they are not compatiable bed partners.
Woodentop. Let's just agree to diasgree and let's see what happens in this market over the next couple of years.
Buyer Representation will be offered through Estate Agency and there's nothing you can do to stop it - no matter how much dirt you try to sling to undermine my integrity and that of my business.
I have been around long enough in business both as investor and entrepreneur and my integrity is intact regardless of what you and your mates want to say on this forum.
Tim
That really is my real name! Like this is a business.
You are wasting your time Wooden Top, all we are doing now is giving them free business advice.
Dressing up a service, none of us bother with, buying a URL and convincing 22 folk that the will earn a living haggling for applicants isn't a business model that is likely to feed any of them for very long.
The fact the maths is just daft and only work on a falling market seems to be beyond them.
Now this is off the front page and unlike normal forums new posts don't take it back onto the front, they have weathered the storm and it will all go away. Sadly Richard (whoever he was in the first place) is the one who came off worse in all this. (Rude, Nasty, Arrogant)
Yes posters on EAT are super critical of new ventures but all those who have been accused on this thread of wrong doing have the Interests of the Profession running far deeper in their veins than NFOPP.
RAT you got my attention now. Why or why is it that when people come up with a new venture (not against in principle) that when people ask them questions, they seem to be ignored. When you probe further you get ignored more. When you make enquiries into their authenticity and find it lacking, they complain! Neither of yu still haven't answered most posts. What you got to hide? Nothing should be the answer or is this the old sales gimmick, "Time Share" comes to mind.
I haven't the slightest idea of who Tim H or his respected professional body. Sorry if you don't like having your own statement s being brought out into the open with comment, you shouldn't have made them as you shot yourself in the foot with them. The APFBA web site is lacking in many legal requirements and code of practice requirments. If you can't get that right, how can I have trust you know what your doing?
You should not expect everyone to fall over with your venture either. Your planning and communication is sadly lacking and not won yourself many followers it seems.
What is becoming clear for everyone to see, which you keep hedging away from, is that there can be a conflict of interest which for the unwary estate agent is a legal minefield, which you seem hell bent on not getting into discussion on. I wonder why.
Have your Buyer Centre. I'm not against it, I've commented that I would be more than happy for you to sell all my properties for me. But keep out of Estate Agents, it is not the place for your venture. Your reason I feel is more to do with being your only source of expansion?
But please do not come into our industry with a venture that could bring us into disrepute. Your framework appears flawed as a sustainable business plan within estate agency. When it all goes wrong, you will step away leaving us to pick up the mess. It is wide open to abuse and misrepresentation. If we don't agree fine, but try educating the people that really matter that nothing will ever go wrong .... the public.
You should try "Dragons Den".
You would make a rubbish radio football commentator Jimmy!
I know you are probably busy but please give us a bit more insight than that.
If my match report was; “two teams came on, ponced about a bit for 90 minutes then left. The hot dog was horrid and expensive" everyone at home would feel short changed.
Main question. Did you get a Bourbon Cream?
I went to a "seminar" like this once. It was ex-double glazing salesmen (yes, they were all men) force selling time share in a holiday club voucher scheme. Whilst my blood rather rapidly began to boil, I could see other "customers" consumed with attentive interest. Go to the seminar by all means, but please, leave your credit card at home.
Well my conclusion is that this franchise could well be the start of a new era in Agency and that there are people who want a full service from an agent who is clearly acting solely on their behalf.
The level of service needs to go beyond the traditional retained client relationship that I suspect most Agents who have read (and not commented on) this article will latch onto free from franchise fees.
The service has to (in my opinion) be separate in every way from Vendor instructed Agency. If we the Estate agency professionals are debating conflict of interest so fervently before it is properly off the ground, some malcontent Vendor or purchaser will surely put up a strong argument for conflict of interest or worse still collusion.
The sole reason I think that a murky grey area is apparent to anyone how hasn’t lived this concept and become convinced of its merit is that there simply aren’t enough applicants to justify this being a separate, financially viable opposition industry to traditional UK Estate Agency.
Increase the fee level to 1.5% of the purchase price, forget the 15% of price reduction bit because it inevitably means Agents will whack on a 7.5% Homebuyer haggle to every instruction to horse trade a 50/50 split. And then borrow some serious cash to set up the business properly and stand on its’ own feet independent of vendor conflict from the start.
Hi James,
When agents experience the support facilities on offer we think this is unlikely, but we would consider the occasional mystery shop if we suspected this might be happening. If discovered this was an issue and if such an action were to be discovered the exclusive licence to operate could be terminated and transferred to a competitor. Ouch!
Just one final question Richard
How do you intend to police all of the transactions undertaken by your member agents, so as to ensure that your frachisees do not take a fee from a seller when they connect with one of your registered buyers?
Richard
Thank you for clearing up the point about the agent acting for a buyer registered on your scheme, who may be interested in one of the agents' own client's properties.
This is all I wanted to know, and a simple answer, rather than the childish political "I refer to the answer given earlier" or "I am too busy and important for this" nonsense would probably have avoided some people's goading.
Wow - you guys have been busy. It's like a school playground out there. If you really are that interested then please do come to an open evening or call either myself or Tim. But in a nutshell, and in answer to the disturbingly anonymous Woodentop :
1. We are members of TPOS and subscribe to the highest standards of professional conduct.
2. The reason there is never a conflict of interest is that an agent can represent buyer OR seller, but never both in respect of the same transaction. NB this is Estate Agency , not Sales Agency! This is much like the fact that a solicitor can represent someone in their capacity as a seller of a property and also in their capacity as a buyer of another property. But they can not represent both buyer and seller of the same property. A typical estate agent has all the skills, knowledge and experience to handle either.
3. An agent's first duty is to their client - usually the seller. However, if Agent A has a hot buyer and doesn't happen to have the right property for them (as is most often the case) then that buyer is likely to buy another agent's property. In this case Agent A may wish to approach the buyer and offer them represented status so they have someone on their side to advise and help them buy. On this basis Agent A is then fully entitled to approach every agent on his/her client's behalf to arrange viewings and negotiate the purchase.
4. The service is not for everyone, but for people who may live out of the area, are time poor, confused by oversupply of stock or are struggling to find something and need a hand. Yes, they can cruise the portals/agents themselves, in which case this concierge service is not for them.
This forum started as a serious business opportunity which has received wide support and natural healthy questions. It is sadly however getting rather bitchy and personal from certain people which undermines their credibility as does their anonymity. If you don't like the idea, fine. If you do, or are curious, then you are most welcome to contact us or attend an open evening, but I'm afraid I do not have time to engage further with posts on this site. Have a good evening. Richard Rawlings.
Tim
I refer to my earlier question which you have not answered
Does it declare in your agency terms that you will be taking a proportion of what a vendor drops his or her price by, as a fee from the buyer, with a minmum of 1% of the value of the house?
Seeing as though you have re-engaged with EAT, surely you are prepared to answer this small point! Yes or No?
ps this is my real name
Copying parts of websites is and misinterpreting them is not clever !
The APFBA are a members association with over 120 member agents who are property finders and buyers agents. You're unlikely to know of them as you are not one of the above.
As chairman of the APFBA for the past 3 years we have helped raised awareness in the Uk of Buyers Representation and we adhere to the Property Ombudsman, as well as our members adhering to our own code of practice.
You asked me about the OFT - and I answered.
If you ask anymore questions - please at least acknowledge my earlier replies.
... we have been in consultation with the Head of Consumer Codes and Estate Agency Enforcement (Charles Wallace) since late 2008 which is when we started developing the business plan for the Homebuyer Centre. We ensured at all times that they were appraised of the buyer representation model and how we were planning to roll out across the UK and in doing so ensured that the structure that we used would meet with their approval.
We continue to be in regular contact with the Consumer Marketing Group within the OFT (you may be aware that the estate agency dept was absorbed within this) and we have been asked to contribute to further guidance that they are preparing for the industry as a whole.
It would be quite impractical (due to complexity) to communicate the full facts of our business model and the structure that we have been through back in 2008/9 with the OFT on this forum. However, as I have said before we have our open evenings established to enable us to communicate this to interested agents.
Yours
Tim
the list of Homebuyer franchisees.
If you do, do not look up Jackie
and if you still won't listen please make sure you spell Cook with the "E" when you google for further information.
I bet you look!
Woodentop. to answer your question/s about the OFT the answer is yes we have been in consultation with the Head of Consumer Codes and Estate Agency Enforcement (Charles Wallace) since late 2008 which is when we started developing the business plan for the Homebuyer Centre. We ensured at all times that they were appraised of the buyer representation model and how we were planning to roll out across the UK and in doing so ensured that the structure that we used would meet with their approval.
We continue to be in regular contact with the Consumer Marketing Group within the OFT (you may be aware that the estate agency dept was absorbed within this) and we have been asked to contribute to further guidance that they are preparing for the industry as a whole.
It would be quite impractical (due to complexity) to communicate the full facts of our business model and the structure that we have been through back in 2008/9 with the OFT on this forum. However, as I have said before we have our open evenings established to enable us to communicate this to interested agents.
Yours
Tim
6 balls of tumbleweed in the last 40 minutes!..... Does that mean I have missed the last bus?
TAXI!
OK forget all the mud slinging, would someone in favour of this enterprise answer these questions as I'm all for you selling my properties for me. What I don't want and I will make an assumption most agents don't want either is the idea of buyers agent rebounding in my face or seen to be dealing with something that can be perceived as being corrupt by the public (vendors in particular).
The main problem seems to center around the agent acting on behalf of the seller and buyer. OFT say to me that will be a conflict of interest and wide open to abuse no matter what guidelines are put in place as some agents are dishonest and don't give a damn. Trying to police it will be reactive "after the offence".
Question 1: Does your enterprise have OFT approval.
Question 2: If not why are you rolling this out within estate agency business?
Question 3: You have a duty of care operating a Franchise. Are you not liable to your clients?
Question 4: Is your buyer/seller senario open to abuse?
Question 5: Who have you submitted your code of Practice to? I haven't found anyone at OFT who has seen it. Boy are they interested!!!!
Question 6: Does this not breach the Property Ombudsman Code of Practice? (The only approved OFT code).
I'm not against a buyers centre, new ways, inventions etc however if I have a concern about a venture you wish me to participate in, it is not reasonable (sensible) to ask questions and as you have taken the time to plug it away on this forum, it is just a good a place to answer my questions.
As for my indentity. I am very well known by hundreds of estate agents, corpoprates and independents, many of which I have had the good forune to monitor their business practices, advise, police and develop for many years. I now run my own very sucessful agency which is beyond reproach. I have also helped to close down crooked estate agents as part of my policing role. I have seen every trick in the trade, gimmick, new idea fail etc so my experience is far reaching (comes with age to us all sooner or later). Due to the latter I will remain anonymous and I ask those that can now guess who I am, to respect my wish.
I will come along to one of the roadshows Tim and have my curiosities and concerns satisfied there.
Tim, lets hope your skilled negs can hold a debate better than you and Richard.
You are right about one thing....a complete and total farce.
Have a look at the post about the agent and his ipad app. They havnt been attacked once (so far). BTW the first person to get insulting on here was Richard.
"Every Property from Every Agent” That is simply not correct, I am looking at 3 properties from my office window that do not appear on the database! How come?
Are you simply spidering the portals? If so which ones?
Please, please, please say Rightmove and maybe we can get 200 posts on this subject!
The website looks like a foreign franchise model dragged into the UK. It is simply tight fisted or lazy not to polish your product for the UK market and high end users you are hoping to attract.
Jackie: If you feel these posts are becoming personal and offensive I recommend the following course of action.
FIRST, look carefully at your own and other pro-buyer agent posters submissions.
THEN, if you feel that you do not fall under the category you refer to, report the offensive posts to the site Admin team.
They DO act when requested, and if any of my posts are seen by the Admin as offensive then I will respect their judgement and for the record I will apologise in advance, as I do not aim to offend anyone - regardless of how they treat me.
Now to your last comment. I am wide awake; here in the real world - the one I share (albeit for a finite period) with you and the rest of the inhabitants of the planet. And yes - I DO enjoy it immensely thank you. The longer the better, I say... The property industry was here LONG before I was born; will be here LONG after I am dead - and certainly doesn't revolve around me; you; or anyone else who plays the wonderful game.
I have no ego to massage here. IF I DID, surely I would not post under a "pseudonym"? (which is, by the way, what one of my friends 'christened' me many years ago and it has stuck since. No fancy reasons - no deep desire for anonymity.)
Neither you or any other reader here give a tuppenny shizzle who I am in real life. But, if my comments and observations raise eyebrows; ask questions that others may want to ask but don't, then I am doing what should be done - and so be it.
Yours
PeeBee
A firm that is engaged to act in the best interests of a seller to market & sell their product cannot at the same time act for the buyer, nomatter how they try to 'manage' the conflict of interest.
On the contrary, the subtone to the posts has been offensive - in the way they attack people on here. You should be allowed to read an article and make a comment on it without the fear of 'pastmasters' on here attacking you. Enough said. You won't be hearing from me again on this forum.
I'm not buying that, Jackie.
There wasn't any offense there...just denial.
Thanks Gourmand Gossip. I'm happy to speak to you, but offline. I shudder when I see the levels of attack some of you chaps (with male names yes) aimed at others on this and other posts on EAT. What a farce.
This is not the sort of place to conduct a proper conversation, you should be ashamed of yourselves!
Tim
These posts are becoming personal and offensive. I do not wish to converse on anything further with you. It was you that raised the subject of the Car industry , not me.
Enjoy your little world (PeeBee) but maybe one day you'll wake up and realise that this industry does not revolve around you.
That is a cracking example, Jackie - there is no conflict of interest here.
Identical to a buyer walking into an agency office, having a chat and seeing the agent doesn't have any suitable property on file. What will happen now? The agent will suggest alternative options that their other branches have for sale.
Now, yes, the agent acts for the seller. However, a FREE, excellent and attentative service is available to all buyers from any good estate agent. A buyer doesn't need your services, just to have some common sense to make an offer on a property. Any buyer that makes a realistic offer on a property is listened to by the seller AND agent.
However, you are limiting your clients position as many agents will not deal with you. Why would they sell their stock at a much cheaper rate to line your pocket? The only thing you can actually offer your buying client is a saving....which is not guaranteed and any reduction that is available will be open to private buyers, not exclusively to you.
I would pick to work with a private (motivated and in possession of common sense) buyer who is looking to secure a cheaper rate on their deal, than involve an irrelevant 3rd party who are out to make a quick buck.
The only thing you can 'offer' is a POTENTIAL saving. Agents will not co-operate with your double standards and as a result your 'client' will have access to less property. ALL of your other services are already provided to the buyer by a good agent for FREE.
It appears you niche market is lazy, rich buyers who don't care - keep them to yourself :)
Jackie: CONGRATULATIONS - second one today that has had the brilliant idea of calling me PeeWee in order to give themselves a titter or two.
Unfortunately, such juvenile behaviour dilutes your argument substantially. Not that it held any water in the first place...
Let's talk homes. Not cars...not holidays... HOMES. The reason - I don't deal in cars, or holidays. It is not how I choose to spend my working hours. I would have thought the same of you, however perhaps though you have many fingers in many pies - you already have two stuck in the property industry albeit at opposing ends.
You say that the Estate Agency business SHOULD be buyer centric. You refer your business as "retail".
Hmmm... In order to HAVE a business, then you need two things: buyers, and sellers. If you work for the buyers, then why would sellers instruct you? They will simply sell themselves - or use one of the dinosaur companies who, for some absolutely crazy reason, work for THEM. So your income will simply come from the buyers, and you will then have to fight tooth-and-nail against old-fashioned Estate Agents for every penny earned from your fee.
Perversely, you may even force the next property boom - sellers refusing to sell as reluctant to finance their buyers' purchase costs, thus creating a property drought which leads to bidding wars. Where do you earn your fee then? 1% of the purchase price paid to you simply for making a HIGHER OFFER than anyone else was prepared to bid, maybe??
How can you refer to Estate Agency as true retail? You offer a service to a paying client - simple as that. The goods on your shelves are owned by a number of individuals, and you have no control over the prices that will or won't be achieved. More to the point, to the best of my knowledge no retail organisation is bound by LAW to act in the best interests of their client.
You say that men are hiding behind pseudonyms on this site. Highly interesting and sexually biased comment. You have NO IDEA what sex I or the majority of posters on here are. Gender and orientation is immaterial to the argument, surely? Is your reasoning behind this sweeping statement that simply because we do not share your views, I and others are obviously of the male gender? I am intrigued...
Perversely, YOU 'hide' behind a single name. If you are really lucky, sellers who may read this won't put two and two together and shy from instructing Estate Agents called 'Jackie' to down-sell their homes to their buyer clients...
There is a place a for a buyers agency, but it is not in a sellers intrerest to instruct an agent who is being paid to get a bargain for a buyer.
Be one or the other, or sell cars perhaps as Jackie says
Tim, what is Graham’s advice on how to avoid conflict of interest and moreover the allegation of Conflict?
I am afraid you will have to complete your visit to the EAT bear pit, if you stop posting it will do your project more harm than good. I think you are doing a good job and holding your own. (Richard hasn't help himself or your project and an apology might be in order) There is merit in offering a service to upper end applicants.
Given your target customer base, the legality and robustness of your product and procedure is vital to success. This isn't going to be a service that every agent will engage but those that do, including those that might appear to give you a hard time on EAT, will need their concerns addressed. If you fudge the answers or decide to get a bit tizzy then you lose face and your project is scuppered.
PeeWee - Are you telling me you have not seen all the Car websites that work for the buyer to find the car they want at the lowest price?
and Last Minute and countless other travel companies that find the best holiday for people?
It's only our industry that's stuck in the dark ages of pre-consumerism.
and why? because we get paid by the seller, not the buyer!
It's the wrong way round !
Our customer ''should' be the buyer, not the seller, it is in most other retail industries.
Let's say a buyer wants a 3 year old car and they contact a dealer where they live. Do you think that dealer's going to turn them away if they don;t have a car that meets their criteria? of course not. Sure, first they will try and sell them one on their forecourt, but then when its clear that's not suitable, they'll sit down with the customer infront of their pc and tap into a network of other 'franchised dealers' across the country to find 'the car that suits the buyer'.
They'll even arrange for the car to be delivered down to them and take their old car off them in part exchange. That's customer service for you - perhaps it is time for a major overhaul of estate agency to more meet the needs of the buyer like the car industry has evolved.
Dear Jackie
Any company with an HR department or advisor will have a robust and strictly policed social networking policy which lays down rules to cope with the "facebook" generation. I am guessing you don't protect yourself or your staff with such a policy. If you did you would understand, acknowledge and respect the use of pseudonyms.
Best regards
George
RICS?
Yes Graham Ellis at RICS (Residential) is a great supporter of what we're doing and buyer representation in general. He attended and even presented at our Open Evening in December.
Let's remember that it is not written in stone that EAs must 'only' work for the seller ! - The OFT acknowledge that buyers are disadvantaged in the purchase transaction and have encouraged the progression of models such as ours to provide a more level playing field for homebuyers. Members of our team are in regular consultation with the OFT.
If either of the posters below want to speak to me - then happy to arrange a time to chat if you can't attend any of our events.
Tim
Good breeding consists in concealing how much we think of ourselves and how little we think of the other person.
Jackie: "Seems that 3 people on here don't like Buyers Representation. But thats a tiny minority judging by the views." I count 22 actually - making up almost 70% of the posts mainly to ask further questions which continue to remain unanswered!
FYI, I don't dislike Buyer Representation. I don't LIKE it, either. Someone has to pay for it - and in this case it is the SELLER. Don't try to convince me or anyone else otherwise. If the BUYER has to pay a fee, then they will look to recover it from the price they are prepared to pay for the property, period.
If Stamp Duty was ten percent, then all offers would reduce accordingly.
As a buyer agent, your job is to act in your clients best interests - ie to secure the property at the best possible price. And you are paid on results, so the better you perform, the bigger your fee.
It will simply come down to who is the better negotiator - buyers agent or sellers agent. You simply can't pull and push at the same time.
One question. You say the OFT said "...as long as conflicts are managed then they would embrace the idea of agents working for the buyer." Interesting phrase. "Managed" - in what way pray tell? They must have given a definition...
Brings the question what industry will jump on this particular bandwagon next? Will we see the emergence of webuyanycarFORYOU.com? Get yer next Mini cheap here!
I can hear the jingle already... ;)
Oh the facebook generation - don't we love it!
Grown men standing behind pseudonyms !
Why don't you 3 or 4 pick up the phone to Richard and have a chat with him about it rather than this childish tit for tat?
Please remember you wanted the publicity and should appreciate some of us can't get to your roadshows (even for Bourbon Cream) (I worked for a bloke once who would insist that went on my P11d)
If you can't convince us lesser Agents that your scheme is sound and without conlict please at leat tell us who at RICS has confirmed that this falls within the guidelines set out in the Blue Book.
Gerald Ratner had a moment like this Richard! I think you have done your self no favour with your posts and would probaly have done well to leave the talkng to Tim.
He at least started out posting politely but now we are back to the 3 stock options.
arrogance, uncertainty of concept or ignorance.
Seems that 3 people on here don't like Buyers Representation. But thats a tiny minority judging by the views.
Please allow me to give my input without fear of being shot down in flames !
I have run an estate agency for over 15 years and I started offering a buyer representation service last year. I did speak to the OFT at the time they came out with their study into homebuying (last Feb) and they said that as long as conflicts are managed then they would embrace the idea of agents working for the buyer.
Some facts. I have had around 15 'buyer rep' clients since last July and have made some good additional revenue for my estate agency. I have not (to my knowledge) alienated any vendors - in fact I have more instructions than before.
I'm a firm supporter of buyer representation (as you can tell) - and facts speak louder than words !
Jackie
Richard Rawlings: Following on from wardy I would like to add a couple of points relating to your post...
"(and this really is new - if you don't believe this then perhaps you should do a bit more research... it is not MLS...) Excuse me for being a bit thick here - but if this is SO new as you claim, Richard, how can we do "research" on it (other than read spin which may or may not actually bear future fruits)? May I be as bold as to remind a renowned marketing guru that the wheel has already been invented - you have I respectfully suggest simply polished some rusty spokes and rolled it out again...
"...we will be announcing some very high profile partners whose opinions are perhaps more highly regarded than some of those who have commented here." WOW - you certainly know how to endear an audience to you, don't you? I would respectfully suggest to you that those who have commented here regard NO-ONE more than they do themselves - and will follow THEIR opinions long before they follow your high-rollers. Perhaps enrolling on the "How to Win Friends and Influence People" refresher course may be an advisable course of action... ;)
Your feet may not be large in reality, Richard - but they don't 'alf make a splash when you jump from a great height into the brown and nitrogenous...
Well put James. If there were no concerns, adverse comments wouldn't be raised.
Your attempt to move into Estate Agency is flawed and no mater how I look at it, it is just a franchise venture.
I have not had my OFT question asmnwered so I have contacted them myself .... they are amazed that estate agents would do such a thing .... wide open to abuse was one comment and my point exactly.
I just wonder how many agents realise the trouble they could get into with this venture. You would have to disclose as required under the Estate Agency Act your relationship with the buyers franchise no later than at time of submitting offer or your relationship with such a company incase it turns out they were using said service and you missed it. I can see the vendors faces now when they see why the agents is trying to get them to accept a low offer.
I shall stay well away, more hassel than it's worth.
Never has the question of whether or not the seller will be informed of your intention to take a proportion of their drop in price, as a commission from the buyer been answered.
Until you answer this one point I am afraid I cannot offer your concept any support, sorry.
Estate Agents work for sellers to get them the best possible price.
We offer a duty of care and a service to buyers who would like to buy from our clients, and we stand in the way to protect our client from buyers wanting to pay too little.
This concept does not support these values.
It may make money out of agents or the odd buyer, but it does not accord with good service to sellers in my opinion.
To start with I was voicing an opinion but now I feel like a rant. Richard Rawlings suggests this is something entirely new, while Tim H is saying that he’s been doing it for donkey’s years. Richard, maybe the reason that this venture of yours has met with so much criticism is that agents don’t like it nor understand it. The fact you are trying to partner with agents makes this whole idea flawed, as I said before we conflict. Now if you think waving a signed contract from a couple of corporates (or high profile partners as you put it) is going to make us pay you then I think you are mistaken.
Richard, you can say there is no conflict of interests until you are blue in the face but that doesn’t make it so. Neither of you have managed to answer any questions raised by us, your potential clients so you can poke your bourbon creams.
I have been offering Buyers Representation now for many years and it would be good to see what you propose.
I do believe the NAEA should lay down some ground rules in respect of this now rather than later.
Disclosure and honesty is the key.
See my latest ad in the BA Business Lounge in Gatwick and Heathrow (plug), lol.
or professional agents are not over valuing their stock by over 20%.
Dear Tim and Richard
Please could I ask what happens when the market isn't flat or falling?
If an agent has no shortage of applicants willing to purchase at the asking price, what part of the service ensures that applicants will pay the additional 1% premium. (15% of no saving triggers the 1% fee)?
Surely the average minimum fee will be 1% of the average property price, therefore £1650 (ish) not £3000.
A service for applicants might be the way forward but I suspect you haven't begun to imagine what that looks like in areas where unencumbered (no chain) applicants are a rarity, average property prices are not £300,000 or professional agents are over valuing their stock by over 20%.
There are professional and contractual reasons why some people post using an alias so please do not be so patronising as to assume or accuse us of cowardly sniping. If your business model is robust you should have nothing to fear from answering the reasonable questions raised here.
I am looking forward to hearing who these highly regarded associates are. Please let me be the judge of whether their opinion or sanction has any value.
Hi Tim and Richard,
Great idea. Best get Phil and Kirsty, from location x3 on the road show with you. Good luck.
Best wishes,
Andrew
Seems a fine idea. I would far rather see (and in theory use) proper estate agents for a buying service than some of the mini-celebrities working in this are at present.
It strikes me that the users of such a service would have more money than time or patience, and so if proceedable (as required) be great clients to have.
Its a good model, and anything that makes buyers feel confident has to be a good thing too. I support it.
Very interesting to note the various comments regarding buyer representation as an integrated part of regular estate agency, much of it based on a simple misunderstanding of the concept and a degree of cynicism of anything new (and this really is new - if you don't believe this then perhaps you should do a bit more research as this is nothing like the Phil Spencer model, it is not MLS, and it is not used in the USA, and there is never, ever, any suggestion of a conflict of interests).
I have spent over a year on this with the MD Tim Hammond and am absolutely prepared to put our joint b@lls on the line as well as my own reputation. Over the next couple of weeks we will be announcing some very high profile partners whose opinions are perhaps more highly regarded than some of those who have commented here.
We have roadshows all over the UK, with the second one in Watford this Thursday 27th Jan. Details of this and others can be found at thehomebuyercentre.net . If you want to heckle why not come along and show your face? At least you'll get a cup of coffee and a bourbon cream.- or do you have a problem with that as well! Ha! Have a good evening. Richard Rawlings.
I'm not personally concerned with the people involved. I am however concerned that those that jump in with with feet need to stop and take a deep breath and look first. Sound business experience.
I'm all for someone selling all my properties for me. Thank you BUT
This is fraught with danger for agents to act for buyers for a fee if they are selling the property to. Wide open to abuse cannot be agrued against. Some agents are just not honest and that cannot be denied. Those that are professional, could as I have made comment before be wide open to slander by disgrunteld vendors who think they have "been done", so that the agent could get his buyers fee. I stand corrected if this could not happen. Even if it didn't mud sticks and a good professional agent doesn't want any unjust mud thrown in his direction. He will do more business without mud.
TIM I do have a question which I see no reason for not answering on this forum...... What do trading standards say about your venture. A clean bill of health or do they have concerns?
Actually to correct you the company you mention is still operating, just that I don't believe Phil Spencer is still involved.
With regards to questions asked on this forum. May I repeat that for those interested your questions will be answered at any of our Open Evenings. We have specifically set up these open evenings because we know that Buyers Representation is likely to be a contentious subject, as proved by this forum!
I will not answer any more questions on this forum purely through lack of time and each question leads to another question - so it is best to thoroughly address your questions face to face.
Those interested please see our website for details.
all the best
Tim
sure great. should be selling like fast.
BTW Phil (the chap) from location, location, location opened up a branch in Manchester doing this sort of thing. Lasted less than 12 months before it closed. I wonder why?
Richards Rawlings is getting away with this a bit lightly isnt he? years of preaching good estate agency only to back an idea like this.
Tim: Yes, my name WILL come up several hundred times on here if you search. Whether or not you consider my posts constructive is another matter - of course in this instance, as I am simply trying to establish whether your Association has any b@lls behind it or and merit in its' existence, then you will see me as a persistent and painful thorn in your paw.
You choose to view my posts selectively. I am extremely constructive, IF and WHEN I speak for the good of the housing market and the industry. If I do not see any good, then I speak against it. I say what I think - and if I think it, then others will. Answer me and I believe you will be answering many.
So far, you have submitted a press release which has been picked up by a trade website, and have steadfastly refused to answer any pertinent and valid questions from myself and others. Questions that, with the right answers, might have swelled your membership. Instead you wish to answer the same questions many times to individual 'serious enquirers'. Fine - but you are running away from a what is only a willy-waving exercise (thank you for that one, Jonnie - where are you by the way?) - and not even squaring up for some pushing and shoving. This is not a case of "he who turns and runs away..." - this is one you need to stand up to.
You want to rule the playground - then show us your conkers!
Otherwise your Association loses every shred of credibility that your original aim was to gain.
I didn't submit the press release that has raised all the heads over the parapet. So it isn't ME that should be making all the noise here...
I completely agree, serious questions only and none that might show a negativity to your company, as there is none in the slightest. I am intrigued at your business model.
Please can you clarify how you feel this is the "next chapter in estate agency"? It is an old business model that has been around for years, but never kicked off.
Hi Tim,
I completely agree, serious questions only and none that might show a negativity to your company, as there is none in the slightest. I am intrigued at your business model.
Please can you clarify how you feel this is the "next chapter in estate agency"? It is an old business model that has been around for years, but never kicked off.
Hi Tim,
I completely agree, serious questions only and none that might show a negativity to your company, as there is none in the slightest. I am intrigued at your business model.
Please can you clarify how you feel this is the "next chapter in estate agency"? It is an old business model that has been around for years, but never kicked off.
Pleased that this article has generated so much interest.
However I will be responding to serious enquiries only and that does not include various people on this forum who have a track record of dissing other people's businesses for the sake of basking in their own verbal glory. PeeBee your name seems to come up on EAT several hundred times and you don't seem to have anything constructive to say about any thing.
As polite as I can make it in the circumstances!
Tim, one massive flaw that you have ignored....
YOU state that your service represents the buyer and you will have access to competitors stock. Your unnecessary fee isn't even needed to view Rightmove or other agent's sites - you do have access to ALL stock, just like your client does online, without you.
But no respectful estate agent is going to want to deal with you anyway, so your client's 'access' is immediately decreased. Like Wardy has already pointed out...you WILL be laughed out of most offices.
One minute your business is driving to push the price as high as possible. In a separate transaction you are doing the opposite. On both occasions you are looking to make a quick buck, swapping teams, and morals, willy nilly in the process.
So, when you are selling, will you respect and acknowledge potential private buyers who want to take the p*** with their offers? Of course you won't, but it is acceptable for you to do this when the shoe is on the other foot. Double standards.
Your quick rich quick scheme may well secure the odd numpty, generating enough money for your existnece. However, "the next chapter in estate agency” - Reeeally?
Tim H: "This is not about...or doing seller's or their agents out of money." But surely, Tim, that is EXACTLY what it is about - otherwise there is no need for the service! Unless you can buy that property on behalf of the buyer CHEAPER than the buyer can buy it themselves (substantially so at that...) then a buyer has either too much money or wishes to invest too little of their own time in buying the most important purchase of their lives. Either way, the seller will lose out - unless of course they employ better negotiators to sell than the buyer employs to buy!
Oh - while I am on, I ensured that EVERY question I asked could easily be answered within the confines of this feed, so your response is invalid.
Your members - current and possibly future - are reading this. They don't want to see you beaten into tight-lipped silence by mere questions about the Association you Chair...
Job solved! We all stop being EA, charge buyers 15% off asking prices, no agents to blame for over valuing, the world is no longer all our fault, no rightmove as no market, people value themselves and save our fees. Quality, can’t see getting all that stick for 1.5% to 2%anymore, Simples
This is not about making a quick buck or doing seller's or their agents out of money.
Buyer Representation is about providing a service to the homebuyer that is level to the service that you currently provide to seller's of property.
As I have said I am more than happy to clarify the details of this service and how it is operated - but in a forum where full details can be provided (which cannot on this feed)
Okay, Tim H - you've got my attention.
SUPPOSE I was to consider being a Buyers' Agent. Might as well - previously spent years on the other side of the fence and can negotiate with the best of them.
Tell me, please: The Fee I would charge. Is it a percentage of the saving against Asking Price (or "Money For Old Rope" as I would be looking to call the service...), or a percentage of the REAL saving between the property's true value and what I could steal it for (I would call this "Earning My Fee"...)
Also, the Association you Chair. I have a few questions regarding this also:
Is it approved?
By whom?
Who does the Association answer to?
I note from your website you have "sought OFT approval of your Code of Practice" - has said approval been obtained? If not, why?
Who polices the Association?
How does the approval process work for becoming a Member?
What benefts would I receive as a Member? Your website lists several 'benefits' - but none that I see would benefit me...would they?
Sorry to ask so many questions - but if I'm going to stump up three hundred and fifty quid a year to enjoy membership of the Association I want to be 100% certain that the benefits sharply outweigh the cost, otherwise what would be the point?
Look forward to your answers... assuming you see merit in taking the time to respond, of course.
The fact the people disagree says alot that all is not rosey with this idea. All I see being argued is making money by the "fors".
Public perspective of agents isn't good in some quarters. If it is perceived that agents are acting more in favour of the buyer for money, than the best interest of the seller as instructed and legaly obliged to do, whether founded or not, your reputations is going to take a pasting and wide open to critism. It is frought with danger of some agents to abuse, no matter what code you put up. It certainly is frought with danger of allegations by vendors who think they could have got more, no matter if they are wrong. Stories always get gigger and exaggerated.
Is a quick buck more important than your good name?
As I have said I am more than happy to clarify the details of this service and how it is operated without any conflicts of interest and how it is seen as a valuable service to homebuyers. If you are interested please contact us, if not please don't.
I have been open and polite on this forum, whilst judging from their tone others have not.
Well of course if Tim thinks he can act for both buyer and seller then he is the un-educated one.
This sort of thing really has not been thought through, and any agent who thinks that they can truly act for a seller whilst being paid by the buyer to get as big a reduction as possible surely should be in a different industry
Sorry
Tim's resposnses say more about him than knowledgeable posters
Wardy, fully agree with you, but this shower want to act for both buyer and seller, "cake eat it"springs to mind. Now someone remind me why we are hated by the public!
Tim, thank you for simplifying it for me.
You work for the buyer, the buyer’s interests, an attempt to ultimately reduce the price paid for property and earn a fee. I work for the seller, my aim is to get them the MOST amount of money and take a fee for achieving it. I’m sorry but we conflict. Never the twain shall meet.
Your highly skilled negotiators will be wasting there time with me if they think I will under sell to them, in fact I look forward to dealing with them. Better still I hope a few of my competitors sign up, I will have a field day.
I'll refer you to my earlier response.
Buyer Representation in UK estate agency is not new (see note below re Savills & Knight Frank). How the service is operated and offered to clients and how conflicts of interests are avoided is important. Our team have been in buyers agency for over 10 years and I am chairman of the industry association for this sector which has a strict code of practice in place. We have the knowledge and experience to ensure agents offering this service alongside their existing agency have the full training and support to do so professionally.
It's far too easy on this forum for anonymous posters to post uneducated and misinformed comments. But we're professionals and have been doing this business for 10 years - it is not a new concept, nor a new business.
Tim, course you will have, there are desperate people out there and those with big greedy, green eyes who think they see a fast buck, lets see if you are about in 12 months then and the money you have been paid........
Tim
Clearly you have time to answer back, but not answer the question
Nope. I don't see any merit in spending time answering each of your questions James, when I have enough agents signing up to our service.
That just says it all does it not?
Pleased that this article has had so many views. I'm afraid I'm too busy to answer any more specifics on this thread - but can reassure those interested that your questions will be answered at any of our Open Evenings.
all the best
Tim
So the big question is
When you visit a house for sale, with a view to listing it, do your terms of business state that you will receive a proportion of what the seller reduces by, as a fee from the buyer?
Thereby not truly acting in the sellers best interest
Nope it is true - exactly as it states.
There is no additional cost for a pre-offer survey assuming you proceed with the purchase and have either a Homebuyer's Report' or Building survey. The buyer pays no additional cost for what now becomes a two part survey!
Buyers can now get to know what's wrong with a property before they put an offer in. And what's wrong with that? You may get the RAC to do a 150 point check on a car before you put an offer in on it.
The prime principle behind Buyer Representation is to 'represent the buyer' and help them achieve be an informed buyer at every step of the process. I know this may appear alien to some agents - but it is time we started looking at this industry as a service to the homebuyer as much as a service to the seller.
Whats is that all about Henry? That is a bit of bad news that really ought to have its own news story.
Very few people in this industry are loved and respected like Ros!
the buyer is paying the 'RICS' serveyor? so the bit of the website that says
'There is no additional cost for a pre-offer survey assuming you proceed with the purchase and have either a Homebuyer's Report' is untrue then?
Ros, I hear you have resigned from your roles with NFoPP editing the NAEA and ARLA newsletters. What a great loss you will be to an organisation clearly wrestling with internal strife and divisions.
It was plain to see in the extraordinary video posted before Christmas (http://www.powershiftlive.com/video_stream_approval.php?video=NFOPP_Branchv2_Powershift_S.flv) that all was far from well within NAEA. Membership numbers seem to have fallen by as much as 4,000 and members appear to be 'disinterested' at best in what the organisation is doing. The ill-concieved licensing scheme announced last November seems to sum up how out of touch the officers on the bridge are.
I hope that ARLA isn't contaminated by the obvious problems festering within NAEA and that NFoPP appreciates that it is fast loosing the limited respect and good will that it may have had in the first place.
Perhaps it's time to accept that like cats, estate agents just don't like to be herded.
Nope. your comments are simply not true. There are no conflicts re the RICS surveyor who is paid buy the buyer to do a home condition report. Details in that report are used by the buyer and their agent in the negotiations, just as a seller's agent would use positive attributes of a property in negotiations on behalf of the seller.
All mortgage and conveyancing relationships agents have are honoured and commissions earned by the agent as normal. We are in the business of providing agents with an additional revenue stream.
Worth mentioning that over the past 10 years I have found that the vast majority of estate agents have seen value in working with buyers agents as they bring proceedable buyers to the transaction and hold the purchase together as they don't get paid unless the purchase goes through.
We have a full FAQs available for those interested in the service.
I’ve just been having a look at the website and in my opinion there are aspects of this service I really don’t like. Firstly the pre offer survey. A conflict of interest arises when a surveyor is instructed to value a property by a company who’s sole purpose is to down value to up their fee. Secondly, additional services. A buyer from ‘Homebuyer centre’ will have (I’m sure) been pedalled mortgages and conveyance long before we meet them, losing the chance to recommend good local solicitors that are more likely to actually get the sale through. Many independents have in-house mortgage consultants, so a likely loss of income there.
So in my view, deal with the home buyer centre and get (for example) a FTB who’s already tied up with a unknown broker, a call centre type solicitor and wants to take out valuation surveys on everything they view before they offer.
Sounds like a complete pain in the a**e to me.
@Adam. There will always be one idiot that thinks rightmove is an online dating channel. By all means, charge them five grand.
Boy, if someone can't use a property portal such as rightmove etc to find the right property then they deserve to lose £4-5000 on you guys. With streetview and google map I can actually find out so much of that property without actually seeing the property.
Well done Tim H, for coming on here and politely providing informed posts and opinion in reponse to the points made.
Most advertorial gets left to the mercy of the pack because of arrogance, uncertainty of concept or just ignorance.
Mark. Let me tell you what I think about franchising (since you ask). We have had plenty of them over the years spinning the sales pitch on this very forum. I think my old mate Ian Dobrin was the last notable attempt with his Inventory yarn. When you are simply selling more fried chicken than you can handle, you make it easier on yourself by franchising and you get to spread the brand further than the state line of Kentucky, thereby strengthening what is already a successful brand. Launching a business straight into franchising, says you have neither the resources, finance nor self belief. If it fails, it fails with other peoples money. I hope it doesn't fail Mark, but I think the interweb has beat you to it, so it almost certainly will. Those who can, sell, those who can't, franchise.
Tim H - very commendable to have "strict code of practice", however since agents daily ignore the law of the land they are not really worth the paper drafted on are they? Just review other posts on here about the masses not registered for ML Regs, Ombudsman redress scheme etc. Now dangle 15% in front of them........
Buyer Representation in UK estate agency is not new (see note below re Savills & Knight Frank). How the service is operated and offered to clients and how conflicts of interests are avoided is important. Our team have been in buyers agency for over 10 years and I am chairman of the industry association for this sector which has a strict code of practice in place. We have the knowledge and experience to ensure agents offering this service alongside their existing agency have the full training and support to do so professionally.
Mark
If you "truly" work for the seller, you must give a property a full airing in order to ensure you get the best price.
Organising under the counter deals to pre-registered buyers is putting the seller at a disadvantage every time.
You must step aside in every instance where you have a buyer paying you to find them a bargain.
I would throw you out of my house if you told me you were receiving a fee from a buyer expecting to pay you a chunk of what you can knock off the value of my house.
Or are you not telling your sellers you get a cut out of what they drop the price by? If that is the case do not pass go, and go straight to jail........
I had a bloke over Christmas wanted me to sign up for a £5000 finders fee before he would let me know the whereabouts of a place I found on the Interweb.
5k to decide if I am interested!
It needs to be very clear who is agent for who and any prior communication or conflict of interest needs to be disclosed.
Fees need to be representive of the work involved and not seen as a ransom.
Sounds to me that this thread has become a business advertisement.
No doubt it will work for some but my money is on your spending an awful lot of time trying to work out other agents property stock, needing al those answers and more than your buyer client will expect you to know for the fee your charging. Good luck to you when you don't find the property they could have had, but you missed finding it. No doubt there will be reams of disclaimer notices. I haven't the time or the inclination to get involved in another paper exercise. I would need to employ staff just to do that job. Wait till you try and get into the corporates stock!!! I forsee it will go the same way as HIPs? Trying to reinvent the wheel? You can't, you can only keep greasing the axle to keep it running smoothly. I might be cynical but experience in this game for so many years makes one wise, although the young guns who think they know better on how to make a buck or two will counter with "this is the new way and your living in the past". We shall watch with interest.
No that is correct. Your client is the first one to instruct.
Fo those not already aware of Buyer Representation it has offered for many years by Knight Frank, Savills, Strutt and Parker, to name a few leading estate agency chains.
Now there is an opportunity for other estate agents to offer a similar service and get the training required and be part of a network of agents operating it (not a franchise).
....Your Client is the first one to instruct? Nonsense,
Whenever you are asked to act and you accept the instruction they become your Client.
Nothing wrong with the idea as long as you are not selling as well. If you do combine the two I suggest you have a very large litigatrion fund to hand!
In my view the only real winner here - as in many other fields - is the franchisor.
Integrating Buyer Representation into estate agency naturally raises many questions - all of which we have answered (and resolved) many times before - over the past 10 years that I have been in this sector of the industry.
If you're interested in this opportunity please speak to us.
Missing the point James, but sounds like you probably have a lack of respect or even understanding that if a service is explained to a client then they will understand there's no conflict of interest. Perhaps this is something you're not used to and maybe you could give sellers more credit that they will understand the service rather than implying it's a con or conflict of interest?
Can I just ask though.... are you telling me that if you dont have a buyer that matches a property your valuing now that you dont try and marry those to up as well? Surely that's classed as acting for the buyer James...?
First time buyers could actually end up saving money through this service... they are inexperienced at negotiating and sometimes give to much away about what they are going to pay for the property they have fallen in love with.
It's worth looking at the market place we are currently in, it's a buyers market, in a sellers market where prices were rising every agent could quite happily say they were getting the best price for the sellers because the market dictated what buyers were paying.
In this market place sellers need representation just as much as the buyers do and this service allows us, hard working agents, who perhaps think outside of the box to start offering this as an additional service.
I think what I'm trying to say is that it's not worth shooting The Homebuyer Service down unless you have a real valid reason or concreate evidence that it wont work, especially as we have had clients sign up on this service already!
Yes many examples of FTBs affording our service. I'll give you one that we helped move house recently in Oxford.
Professional couple renting, budget of £250k inc fees for their first home. We looked at everything available in their price range that met their spec and helped them buy a property that had just come on at £260k for £232k. With our fees of £4.2k = £236.2k.
Now you could argue that given time and effort they may have been able to find and negotiate a similar price in that market. But 1. they did not have the time and 2. they wanted to use a professional to do the work from search to completion for them.
Happy to give anyone who attends our open evenings, many examples of different types of customers who have used us who all would never consider buying without 'buyers representation' again.
Mark
You are talking rubbish
You are not telling me that if you manage to sign a buyer up this concept for say a house up to £300,000
And then you go to value a house that you may be able to get £325,000 for that meets their requirements, that you are not going to try to put the two together
The loser would be the seller every time
Unless of course you then tell the seller that they should choose a different selling agent, so that there was no conflict
Tim,
I can't see your argument for the reasons why clients may use you.
Most agents are open 7 days a week 9-6 (at least) We open every bank holiday except the usual chrsitmas time. There is such thing as holiday too. I work on average 48-50 hours a week and was still able to find my home (40 miles away)
My point being that no one moves home blind, they make arangements and plan, I dont think I would want someone else doing the leg work for me, Im the one who will be spending 100's of thousands of pounds. Paying someone else to find my home and then the normal moving fees. Errr no thanks.
Sorry to hog this forum today, but Tim, if that is your BEST example of your target market....hhmmm?!
FTB's and those that have sold a house in this market, are very unlikely to be able to afford this extra service. Anyone buying a house will usually be able to secure it for less than the asking price and the money saved is ideal to cover legal/moving/selling fees, not to cough up for something extra!
Mark, Let's agree to disagree!I hope it works out well for you.
Consider a couple who both work fulltime who are moving for work to an area they don't know. They currently can only view at evenings/weekends and have to deal with several /a dozen selling agents each who only have access to their own stock to sell. Meeting agent after agent at viewing after viewing until they may find something they like - to often then lose out to another buyer who has more time to be on the case.
We've had many clients like this who turn to buyers agents after being let down by the traditional househunting process, and frankly do not have the time nor inclination as it is too time-consuming and stressful. Most agents I speak to acknowledge this and hence we are well on are way to establishing a national network of homebuyer centres who can help these types of buyers !
And they don't all have large budgets - they are just short of time.
I'd very much like to know what proportion of my fellow agents are, like me, madly allowing families to have 'Probate Valuations" free. With, at best, a one-in-three chance of instructions are we seriously unhinged? Can you let me know here or on probates@trevorkent.com. Thanks folks.
I think that this idea has a lot going for it.I'm not yet signed up but I am certainly looking at the proposition with great interest.I've yet to hear anything that will put me off and the team at the Homebuyer Centre seem really helpful.it's SO EASY to be cynical about this but I'm keeping an open mind about what COULD be a very a useful revenue stream.
Who cares whether it's a franchise or not?If I make money -they make money and vice-versa.Good luck to one and all I say.
"The Cheese"
Your comment:-
"So, let me think. I am about to put my property on the market. Which agent shall I choose...? I know, the one who gets 15% of what they bully me into taking, and then charge me 1.5% for the pleasure...mmmm?!"
Your right, if I was a seller, I would choose the agent that was trying to work for me and was going to achieve the best price. Remember though, whoever your fee paying client is that instructed you first is the one your loyalty and service will be too.
In other words if your seller wants you to market their home then you market their home to all of your buyers that you would usually have. If the buyer is one that has signed up for the Homebuyer service and wants that property then you simply collect the fee from your seller and explain to the Buyer that your loyalty lies with your first instructed client.
If a Homebuyer client instructs you to find a specific house that isn't yet on the market and you subsequently find that house for them, you then let the seller know... "Good news Mr.Seller! because I am representing the buyer, I won’t be charging you a fee!"
If you are a good Agent then you will not only come across as ethical in your approach, you may even win a few more instructions because of your honesty and transparency.
“Aceofspades”
Thanks for taking the time to assess my stock level, just for your records we have dealt with quite a few properties above the levels you have mentioned, but no matter, I don’t think it’s that important anyway. One of my motivations, although not my main one, for using the Homebuyer Centre was to win further instructions. We are slowly being perceived as an Agent that uses all avenues to attract buyers for the properties we have becuase of the The homebuyer service.
“Jimmy”
Not a franchise, a license, similar, but what seems to be the problem with a franchise or license? It’s how a lot of large businesses succeed and become very well known in a short space of time. Nothing really that negative about having a support network behind you to ensure a good level of service for the client as well as a national brand...
:-)
Nope, as per my earlier post this service is not aimed at the upper class. The demographic is largely buyers who are new to the area / too busy and hence buyer representation is a very useful addition to an agent's service offering.
I don't think you will have too many problems with the conflicts of interests, Mark. You will actually need both a seller AND a buyer for a problem to arise.
Every service has a market...everything. However, the price and audience has to be correct and this is completely wrong. This is NOT a Nationwide service, designed for the market. At best, your looking at very expensive property, where the buyer has far more money than motivation.
Mark Rowe has 4 properties on his site that are over £300k - Hardly illustrates the expertise in upper class property, that you would expect for such a scheme.
Ultimately, you are charging for something that can be achieved for FREE, by using several good agents and demonstrating a bit of common sense.
In this economic climate, people won't waste money. Legal fees, selling fees, stamp duty, moving costs, time off work....WHY on earth would anyone add to the already spiralling costs? Especially when the service is not even needed, certainly not essesntial.
"Working in conjunction with well-known estate agency consultant Richard Rawlings"... Who?. To sum up the whole concept in one word..."franchised ".
Buyer Representation is not new in the UK, but now through the Homebuyer Centre is no longer restricted to the upper 1% of the market who have traditionally used 'buyers agents'.
Consider the next 2 to 5% of the marketplace and you have a good new revenue stream. Awareness levels of buyers agency is increasing - 8m viewer of L. L. Location.
The opportunity is not suited to every agent or every customer - so we expect negative comments on this forum.
Open evenings being held every month - so come along if you are interested in finding out more.
Tim
The secret is being able to acquire a property that has yet to come to the market. Now HIP's are history, there are more opportunites for this type of service.
So, let me think. I am about to put my property on the market. Which agent shall I choose...? I know, the one who gets 15% of what they bully me into taking, and then charge me 1.5% for the pleasure...mmmmm?!
Hi,
We were one of the first to sign up with The Homebuyer Centre and just to clear up a misconception that I'm sure everyone will be asking;
There is no conflict of interest and without going in to to much detail, whoever instruct you first i.e the buyer or the seller is then "your client".
So, if the seller has instructed you to sell their property then you must inform the potential Homebuyer Centre client that you are instructed to that client first therefore you cannot collect two fees.
I must also say that the support from Richard and Tim has been outstanding. It would be great to expand the buyer network across the country and the "buy in" isn't as much as you think, especially when you measure the amount of support and guidance that they provide.
As you can see above, I like the idea and have bought into it, there are some other advantages that I could see in the service also, so if anyone wants to email me from an Agent point of view, please feel free!
mark@rowepropertyservices.co.uk or mrowe@thehomebuyercentre.biz
I think its great that somebody is trying to innovate and create new services that will ensure the survival - and indeed growth - of local expertise.
In the same way that we at Obligo.co.uk are trying to improve mortgage delivery for estate agents these guys appear to trying to create new opportunities for estate agents.
good luck chaps.
Yet again making it so easy for the customer to do nothing, no commitment, become lazy and we all know where that ends up!
A new idea? er no, weve been doing it for years for vendors that we have sold for. What agent doesn't help them to move out, basic estate agency practice and its free. Now bringing in "other buyers" and charging them has a short shelf life, they already expect the agents they register with to do the same thing for free on their property stock and who knows that stock the best, another agents? Pandering to the lazy public dosen't make a successful business model IMHO.
Sounds like a spin off for Location, Location, Location.
Rich upper class folk who couldnt possibly buy a house the same way as the working class!
Definate conflict of interest here.....
The only good point I can see from this would be a surveyor would accompany your second viewing, although I doubt he would put anything in writing until s/he is paid.
At a time when the general public are worried about what they spend, and more specifically what they waste another service that is asking rather large fees for simply arranging a few viewings, using their chosen Broker etc.
You don't exactly need to be Einstein to do all this with tools like RM.
Seems like another service for middle/upper classes, with too much money and not enough time to be arsed with the whole process.
I actually like the task of finding my own home and having more interaction from an agent. I really couldn't think of anything worse than this.
Just copying the US model. I'm not convinced by this at all.
Oh dear.
I am sure that the very wealthy can benefit from a homefinder service, but Jo public will not be so easy to convince.
Sorry, and good luck.
I suspect the only winner will be the one receiving the franchise set up fees.
15% fee off asking price deals- that will be most then, are buyers really goiung to pay that? Juts go to rightmove all avaialble stock is there, there are plenty of Home Search folk who will work for a lot less. Bet they then want to sell Conveyancing, mortgages etc, the public are nbot daft.
Very confused about how the conflict of interests point has been "overcome" - especially where the property comes from the agent's own portfolio. Seems like the service provided on both sides will have to be squeaky clean to the point of being inert.
What happens if your buying client wishes to buy a property from YOUR exiting stock? Will you help them to thrash out a deal at a reduced rate? Or will your loyalties stay with the seller?
At the end of the day, a buyer can use a traditional agent fo FREE. With a bit of advice, common sense and research, they can also make reduced offers on property, saving all money themselves.
The services of an agent to the buyer are already great as they are free. In fact , you can use several agents, who can all do much of this for you anyway...for nothing.