The three big corporate estate agents have drawn closer together after announcing a major joint venture, which has implications for independents.
Vibrant Energy Matters, an independent company acquired by Connells last year for an undisclosed sum, will now also supply Countrywide and LSL with EPCs and other services such as inventories and floor plans.
Last week, LSL announced to the stock exchange that its estate agency subsidiary Your Move had acquired a 15% stake in Vibrant for just £1.
Countrywide, which is not a plc, has not had to issue a similar statement.
The new agreement will mean that all three, Countrywide, LSL and Connells, use Vibrant, which also supplies its services to a large number of independent sales and lettings agents throughout the UK.
The deals will overnight at least double Vibrant’s already leading market share, both in EPC provision and other services. It will also double the number of employed DEAs on its payroll.
The transaction will make Vibrant by far the UK’s largest EPC provider, operating on a scale which is intended to increase efficiencies and, said Connells announcing the deal, “drive down costs for all estate agencies using its services”.
The new agreement will not only increase Vibrant’s share in the residential market but also extend its EPC provision into the commercial and social housing arenas.
Michael Wayman, managing director of Vibrant, said: “Joining with the Connells Group over a year ago gave us access to greater volumes of business and new sections of the property market.
“Extending this partnership to include Countrywide and LSL will increase our market share even further, allowing Vibrant to deliver high-quality, efficient EPC provision on behalf of a greater number of customers.
“The much-anticipated launch of the Green Deal next year will make EPCs even more central to improving energy efficiency in residential and commercial buildings.
“This partnership with the UK’s leading estate agency firms will put Vibrant right at the centre of delivering on the Green Deal’s objectives.”
David Livesey, chief executive of the Connells Group, said: “This joint venture with Countrywide and LSL will strengthen Vibrant’s position as the UK premier providers of EPCs and drive efficiencies and cost reductions for its customers.
“With the largest number of employed DEAs as well as its external panel, this new collaboration will facilitate Vibrant’s continued growth and improve EPC provision for its customers.”
David Newnes, director of LSL, owners of Your Move and Reeds Rains, said: “We are pleased to be joining Connells in this new venture not only because, through greater investment in DEA training, it will streamline the provision of EPCs, but because it will also help in the drive towards improving energy efficiency in residential homes.”
Paul Creffield, corporate operations director at Countrywide, said: “This joint venture will provide the necessary investment to improve standards and increase numbers of DEAs in the industry, whilst also enabling new product innovation and providing home movers with a much more cost-effective suite of products and services.”
Comments
Panel beater clearly uses his head for his job, certianly not for thinking thats for sure. He values an EPC it seems as well, no one else does.
Panel Beater: " It's in te agents best interest to drive house prices up - and to have some smarmy 20 year old fresh out of shorts driving his convertible BMW tell you your house is worth xyz is an insult. They couldn't price up a 4 pack of lager!"
In what way is it in agents' best interests to drive house prices up? The mind, truly, boggles. Have you not observed that most people under the age of 40 - who are not yet on the ladder - cannot afford current prices?
Give it 10 years and it will be 'most people under 50 cannot afford current prices'. You do realise that current prices and the current world economic situation mean that a 20 to 30 year price/transaction stagnation scenario is likely.
And yet, somehow, all this has passed you by and you still think it is in your interest to drive house prices up.
Very, very strange.
Paul Creffield, corporate operations director at Countrywide, David Newnes, director of LSL, owners of Your Move and Reeds Rains and David Livesey, chief executive of the Connells Group made this joint statement:
“What I need is an exact list of specific unknown problems we might encounter.”
“This project is so important we can’t let things that are more important interfere with it.”
Blimey - no comments from those pair of blouses that are fun boy agent and Wardie. Have they eloped?
I reject the fact that at Haart we have no original thought, that’s cruel, how have we become the best, the biggest agent in the UK, Paul Smith is so clever, so wise, we are not losing business hand over fist in the Corpoarte world, we are not making redundancies, we are forward thinking and have become world leaders in agency, we have not ruined any brand we have taken over, we are Haart we are in Smiths mind, great.
Copy that suckers!
What point are you making? Suggest you post pre -pub, is it price, quality, house prices?? Good job you didn't use your name or everyone would know you are a drunk.
"Paul Creffield, corporate operations director at Countrywide, said: “This joint venture will provide the necessary investment to improve standards and increase numbers of DEAs in the industry "
Increase the numbers .......?
Paul you clearly have no idea of the industry you are in...
What a complete pratt..
What a crock of shit.
Just another glorified panel of brainless monkey's that are only interested in driving prices down with no interest in the quality or content of the report.
To do a residential EPC (properly) and satisfy the audit requirements of the AB, your looking at at least 2-3 hours. If anyone thinks that paying £25-35 for that is fair rate for a professional service then you too can be added to the brainless monkey list.
Personally I think fleecing home owners of the percentage fee's of the house sale is scandalous. It's in te agents best interest to drive house prices up - and to have some smarmy 20 year old fresh out of shorts driving his convertible BMW tell you your house is worth xyz is an insult. They couldn't price up a 4 pack of lager!
@Gloria
Nice one.
I hear they were going to ask Haart to jpon to help with the marketing but thought better of it as their colouring in department had no one’s else’s version to copy!
(Marie why try to insult PeeBee by being silly with his name? Guess what? I don't think PeeBee is his real name!)
Anna, I very much doubt there are any useful parallels to be draw to this and RM.
With RM they control the route to market, which is to say the web portal. Anyone wishing to access the service must go through this single route.
However, with EPCs no buyer gives a damn, I have still never been asked for one by a buyer. And the ability to provide them is diverse with a huge oversupply of trained men with clipboards who can do the work. As such no one can command a monopoly on the provision or the route to market. All a large player can do is drive down costs through central administration. Given that the division within Connells will be profit making it will never reduce margins to the point necessary to completely smoother the independent contractors.
Marie, small something.
In the Beginning was the plan.
And then came the assumptions.
And the assumptions were without form.
And the plan was completely without substance.
And the darkness was upon the face of the workers. And they spoke among themselves saying: "It is a crock of sh_t, and it stinketh."
And the workers went unto their supervisors, and sayeth: "It is a pail of dung, and none can abide the odor Thereof"
And the supervisors went unto their managers and sayeth unto them, "It is a container of excrement, and it is very strong, Such that none can abide it."
And the managers went unto the directors and sayeth, "It is a vessel of fertilizer, and none can abide its strength." And the directors spoke amongst themselves, saying one to another: "It contains that which aids plant growth, and is very strong."
And the directors went unto the vice presidents and sayeth to them, "It promotes growth, and is very powerful."
And the vice presidents went unto the president, and sayeth unto him, "This new plan will actively promote growth and efficiency of this company, and certain areas in particular."
And the president looked upon the plan, and saw that it was good.
And the plan became policy.
And this is how shit happens.
@Gloria
Seems like I'm not the only woman that Pee Wee (his new name) likes to have a pop at - what I do object to is him bringing me into his arguments with you, how very Rude!
Dont worry Gloria, I think he has small man syndrome, so dont take him personally.
And Pee Wee - keep me out of your posts please, unless of course I do comment on them, in which case, do your worst kiddo.
'Marie'.......
The three big corporate estate agents have drawn closer together after announcing a major joint venture.
I wonder if they have heard this:
A father was explaining ethics to his son who was about to go into business: "Son, suppose a woman comes into your shop and buys $100 worth of merchandise. She pays you with a $100 bill. As she goes out the door, you discover that she had given you two $100 bills. Now, here's where the ethical question comes in: Should you, or should you not tell your partner?"
There was a ;) for you - trying to lighten the tone!! Hey ho!
Ace of Spades / You are totally correct, what was I thinking about with all my working together and prospering nonsense. As you were, feel free to continue bickering amongst yourselves, I am sure it will pay you dividends in the end. I feel a bit silly now with all that thought of harmony and unity. Every man for yourselves !!
There were similar worries when they set up rightmove, but they either didn’t have enough sense to corner the market with the powerful tool they grew or were too stupid, look at the price Connells sold out at, terrible decision.
Could this be any different, can they get domination at the expenses of the rest, probably not, will they hold agents to ransom to sell Conveyancing , Surveys the like, what data will they collect and how will they use it?
Have they a plan, I suggest yes, they messed up on rightmove, they can’t again, can they?
A man is getting into the shower just as his wife is finishing up her shower when the doorbell rings. The wife quickly wraps herself in a towel and runs downstairs. When she opens the door, there stands Bob, the next door neighbor. Before she says a word, Bob says, “I’ll give you £800 to drop that towel.” After thinking for a moment, the woman drops her towel and stands naked in front of Bob. After a few seconds, Bob hands her £800 and leaves. The woman wraps back up in the towel and goes back upstairs. When she gets to the bathroom, her husband asks, “Who was that?” “It was Bob the next door neighbor,” she replies. “Great!” the husband says, “Did he say anything about the £800 he owes me?”
Moral of the story : – If you share critical information pertaining to credit and risk with your shareholders in time, you may be in a position to prevent avoidable exposure.
Agency Insider, please can you share your information on a recent bin man conference. Or an article by a bin man (or woman), who is bigging up their own industry? I'd be keen to see more ;)
Agency Insider- Spot on, well said! But are all negative posters Agents anyway?
'Of course you don't you silly man. If someone offers you something for a good price you take it, everyone does.'
Actually Gloria I do boycott Tesco’s. And no, everyone does not take something for a good price. People generally take something of value at a fair price. A big difference. I hope the some of the people working for you, for practically nothing tell you to poke your 'commissions' where the sun doesn’t shine.
Gloria. Firstly, I am NOT a Landlord, I can assure you. I own ONE, modest, house (well... as near as darn it, anyways...) - which I live in with my wonderful wife (I throw that in just in case like 'Marie' who, in another storyline thinks I am a woman-hating man of 5'6" or under...!) ;o)
ANYWAYS... I do not wish to "throw opprobrium" as you so eloquently put it - whether at you or anyone else for that matter.
Let's discuss what you have to say. A bit mixed up, I know - but the points can really be discussed in any order:
"I only get paid for selling a house, not for having a house to sell. Which is why I make a point of playing hard ball with vendors upfront and not taking on houses where the vendor is delusional, or more likely been fed a delusion from one of the corporate."
Careful - 'Marie' will be straight on your back for that swipe at a corporate! She doesn't like it, you know - even when you AREN'T having a go at them she has a hissy fit...
Apart from that, what do you consider 'delusional' vendor aspirations? 5% over YOUR figure? Ten percent, maybe? Or are you prepared to test the market up to a point? What point? And where does YOUR figure come from in the first place?
"EPC’s are a volume business, but transactions are down from anyway to half of pre-crash or lower depending on where you are"
Gloria - you say it yourself - TRANSACTIONS are half. NOT INSTRUCTIONS. Yes, they are down as well - but by nowhere near half if Mr Shipside is in any way, shape or form correct (which you may note from other discussions that I far from subscribe to that theory anyway...).
Unless DEAs are doing NSNF business, like Agents, then their fees are banked whether the deal is done or not. Another example - an architect is paid six times more for ABORTIVE work than for the houses you finally see built. Lessons to be learned there, methinks...
"Yes it is highly competitive, as I’m sure you have heard from people who actually do this job."
Got the teeshirt, Gloria. Wore it for sixteen years - and it still fits. And for fourteen of them, my fees were the highest in my region. And guess what happened - I got MORE WORK as a result...
"...if you think margins are suicidal on an EAs business remember EPCs in the early days was £85ish, that has been pushed to below £30 and given the small army of people who trained for this I’ve had them commissioned for £18 as people desperate for work undercut each other."
If a DEA believes that their services are only worth eighteen quid a pop, then I am sorry but firstly, that is THEIR problem, not the commissioner of the report; secondly I am always very conscious of the old phrase "you gets what you pays for" - and so should everyone else be!
It always makes me laugh when DEAs bleat on about Agents beating down the prices in order to make money out of the deal. Just goes to show who the better negotiators are, doesn't it! ;o)
So, Gloria - in essence I'm not sure whether we agree; disagree - or somewhere in the middle. You've made a few throwaway statements in past posts which I jumped on quickly - sorry, but you made them, not me... You may well think I was unfair with what I said - but I ain't gonna agree with you just for the Hell of it on here. You got to admit, the 'Ferrari' thing wasn't the best example you could have put up as a reasonable argument - was it? ;o)
Until you answer the above we won't know whether or not I agree with your appraisal methodology - however I would state here and now that Agents providing vendors with Mickey-Mouse figures is just WRONG - although I would also add that this can refer to UNDER- as well as OVER-valuing...
So - over to you. I'd like to think that we can agree some more. After all - the good of the industry should be first and foremost our individual - and therefore our mutual - aim.
We are just looking from different perspectives.
...obviously an O missing in my previous post before I get slated for poor spelling...
At the risk of boring myself with my usual thoughts on your topics I will just re-iterate it once again. In all other industries people just cannott wait to club together with each other, meet at conferences, support each other, write articles in support of each other etc etc. This is from bus drivers to doctors, to tube drivers to bin men to coal miners. It astonishes me how you all cannott wait to verbally attack each other on your own opinions when really the people who are screwing you over year in year out such as Rightmove or your customers driving down the prices are having the last laugh. Why dont you support each others opinions, stop jibing at each other and use all of your pent up frustration to agree on fair minimum fees for you all, fair fees for EPC assessors, stop whinging about corporates like Spicy Fart becuase there advert said they were independant, moaning about Skipton as they own Rightmove, fair charges from Rightmove with guarentees they wont develop it year on year before they pinch a bit more from you etc etc. United you stand, divided you fall. Talk about being your own worst enemy, you wont be happy until you have run everyones estate agency down into the ground and there will only be your own left to bust. Rant over.
If someone offered me an EPC for £18 then I would have to question their ability to represent my firm (albeit as a sub-contractor) when visiting one of my Vendrs because logic would tell me that they might be rushing the job, may be a bit slap dash, or might be a bit uncouth...
I'm not sure what you're all getting so het up about. We use a local DEA who carries out all work within a week and we charge over £100, per EPC. At least 90% of new vendors go with that, and for the few that shop around and challenge us on price, we match it (within certain boundaries of course).
Wardy, I take it you boycott Tesco's as they squeeze their suppliers and insist generally on paying people more than they offer their for their services.
Of course you don't you silly man. If someone offers you something for a good price you take it, everyone does.
Its not my fault transactions are this low, and that so many people trained for such a small market.
Gloria,
You have commissioned EPC's for £18 from people desperate for work?
Truly disgusting. Nice that you hold your suppliers with such contempt.
You expect DEA's to visit your instructions, carry out a diligent assessment, submit the EPC (costing £5) all for £13. I’m in shock
Peebee, you quite often address posts at me and I just ignore them as you seem to just want to throw opprobrium at me personally, plus I remain convinced you’re a LL which is why you don’t give a toss about volumes but get so catty whenever price is mentioned.
But that aside, you made a number of points that I don’t (or have not) disagree with. But you are cutting short your argument up to the point it’s useful to you. So yes EPC’s are a volume business, but transactions are down from anyway to half of pre-crash or lower depending on where you are. But if you think margins are suicidal on an EAs business remember EPCs in the early days was £85ish, that has been pushed to below £30 and given the small army of people who trained for this I’ve had them commissioned for £18 as people desperate for work undercut each other. It was the combination of low transactions and low fees that very nearly crushed Vibrant before it was swallowed up by Connells.
Not sure what kind of point your trying to make with the rest of your post. Yes it is highly competitive, as I’m sure you have heard from people who actually do this job. But I can tell you it is not as easy as hiking fees. Not when you have a high street stuffed with competitors. Where you are absolutely right is that I only get paid for selling a house, not for having a house to sell. Which is why I make a point of playing hard ball with vendors upfront and not taking on houses where the vendor is delusional, or more likely been fed a delusion from one of the corporate. I believe last time I made this point you slated me for it, which is why I had been ignoring you.
I do feel Gloria has offered something in that first post. She gives a personal experience of an encounter with Vibrant.
She is quoting their business plan of action, should the market decline. Volumes ARE essential to the EPC market.
The last sentence is her opinion, which I think is absolutely fair - a lot of agents are over-valuing because they have got lazy.
Yep, she has drifted off topic slightly, but it's still relative to Vibrant's previous plans. However, much more closer to topic than many of the posts we get on here!!
Well yes I did think it was obvious enough, you probably just did not read my first post properly. Anyway, not to worry, your there now.
Gloria. Okay - the shine has worn off last week's surprise revelation that you and I actually agreed on something. We are back where we started, I am afraid, because I am 100% behind wardy with what he said.
In defence, you may have started out to say something along those lines - but it was lost in the translation and your original post simply became a swipe at virtually every other Agent in the country and their listing practices.
Look - Agents do NOT need to be reliant on transaction NUMBERS in order to survive - thrive, even. You simply need to charge what you are worth for doing the job. If, in order to stay open for business, you need to invoice say £200k, then you need to earn that much. If transaction levels dictate you will sell 50 units in a year, then you need to charge four grand a pop; two large if you can knock out 100 completions, and so on...
What worries me is that Agents are having to work HARDER in the current market - SUBSTANTIALLY harder at that - yet they do not seem to be able to value the worth of their own services.
So - what happens instead is that Agents roll over on Fees (which are ALREADY suicidally low - and don't exactly give an Agent an incentive to perform...); then roll over on prices in order to get a quick sale.
Not very good reasons for vendors to want to enlist your services, are they?
On the other hand, these EPC chappies have a completely different business. If you remember our friends Mr Shipside and Mr Pryor (who regurgitates everything that the former says if it makes him a headline...) have been quoted as saying that only three out of ten properties listed during 2011 will actually sell. That is where YOU make your money, Gloria - like an Iceberg, from the 30% you can see happening. White Van Man, on the other hand, gets ten out of ten to pay for his services - PLUS all the rental properties to boot!
Something to be learned from that, I respectfully suggest...
I'm glad you spelt it out for me Gloria, All I saw was stating the obvious coupled with a snipe about house prices.
Wardy sorry to hear my post went somewhat over your head, I’ll try and be clearer for you. But yes I was drawing parallels with what caused Vibrant so much woe (low transactions) and what is causing all of us so much woe (low transactions).
Like I said I knew Andrew Stead, the founder and first CEO before he was removed. This is a business that charges a fixed fee for work linked to a house being put on the market. As I already said, the business was not worried by an anticipated slump in the housing market. Because they could prove with extensive data that every time the transaction levels slumped, prices fell as well until transaction levels returned to normal.
Why Vibrant has been such a troubled group, is that when transactions fell they stayed low. It looks like they are only just gaining the scale necessary to be viable.
The economies of scale are increasing in ALL ASPECTS of the profession and this will continue as the higher costs of using the latest marketing aids etc. etc. become a necessity.
Small 1 or 2 office Independents in a compatible region should think very carefully. Even 10 years ago one could succeed as a small independent in what was a 'cottage industry' - this is fast ceasing to be the case. In my view independents may have to 'club' together under a common banner but including their individuality, similar to Team or what was Lloyds Black Horse?
Shades of corporates setting up Rightmove?
Corporates charge 3 or 4 times as much for epc/floorplan mostly upfront as part of "marketing fee" which is then carried out at an inconvenient time by a third party.
Independents do their own at a cost of around £5-£10 in house and don't charge the seller up front or charge a very modest cost around £40-£50 and do it whilst measuring up.
Wonder what the implications for this are again????
Interesting story. How will the independents who currently use Vibrant feel about paying money to put profits into the hands of our corporate rivals?
Gloria Andaluza
Did you just pick the top story and somehow managed to turn the thread into an overvaluing debate? I think you may find readers are getting a bit bored of that now.
There is a perfectly good story for getting wound up on HPC three articles down. Knock yourself out.
"The three big corporate estate agents have drawn closer together after announcing a major joint venture, which has implications for independents"
A little dramatic - "Implication for independants"?? We have out own inhouse DEA who provides an excellent service which includes floorplans and at the best price possible - how is this going to have any implications on us in any way shape or form???
Vibrant was a troubled little business I knew before the founding CEO was removed by the early stage investors. Back in 2008 when the business was looking for backers it thought it had a winning solution. It was a business reliant on volumes. I remember we talked about what would happen if the much predicted property slump occurred and volumes collapsed. I was told that in the last 30 years every time property volumes fall it quickly resulted in a corresponding fall in price, so that volumes returned. I remember thinking it was a solid argument.
Evidently this time it was different. Volumes have collapsed but prices have not fallen correspondingly to match and reignite volumes. What’s worse is many of my professional colleagues around the country have become emotionally attached to high prices and have become so lazy as to use overvaluing as their main tool to win instructions.
"This joint venture will provide the necessary investment to improve standards"
Not before time!!!