Rightmove has defended its decision to charge extra to agents marketing properties which are at a distance from their offices.
Rightmove says that this is within its terms and conditions.
EAT has heard from several agents, mainly online ones, who are being charged extra.
However, not all are online, and one agent told us:
“Our company got a call from Rightmove advising us that as over 40% of our properties do not fall within a 5km radius of our shop location then we would be getting charged two office subscriptions. They said it has always been a policy but they will now be invoking it.”
Rightmove’s terms and conditions stipulate that where an agent markets property spread over a wide geographical area, or where Rightmove believes that the agent is listing property ‘not from one of your locations’, then it reserves the right to charge for additional locations, or on a per-property basis.
A Rightmove spokesman said: “It’s important to clarify that this geographic pricing model is not an online-agent charging model. It’s for any agent that has a very wide geographical coverage.
“We serve a number of agents who only operate online. However, we don’t bias against the location that an agent’s business operates from.”
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Comments
I understand that the geographical ruling for Rightmove is if 40% of your properties are outside of 5km of your office or within '200,000 chimney pots', then they will double your fee. This is the call I received from Rightmove yesterday and they are reviewing the properties listed for each agent over the next 3 months. Therefore, where I have mulitple properties within a block, I will simply advertise just one of them and ensure my stock does not exceed 40% outside of the 5km radius.
Personally, although it affects my business, I do feel this is fair. I have been given fair warning by Rightmove allowing me to change my advertising. I will simply change my data-feed supplied to Rightmove with fewer properties and advertise all of my properties with other providers including Zoopla. If all agents adhere to this, the likes of Zoopla will be displaying far greater numbers of properties that Rightmove.
Also, have any of you had your rates greatly increased from Zoopla ? My rates have increased 10-fold. Anyone else suffering their rate increase ?
Oi M - because they are receiveing the same service from the portals. It has nothing to do with the value of the property!
@ Ahhhh bless!
I think this is the sort of attitude that @nuther question was alluding to when he talked about 'cerebal functionality' and 'changing agency attitudes'
On the other hand it could simply be that @Ahhh bless! is a forum troll and if you don't know what one of them is then Google it.
But seriously if the attitude of those agents who complain about being fleeced by RM doesn't change then RM will continue with business as usual.
How sweet!
@nuther question
In answer to your questions.
We have a large investment waiting to be utilised for a marketing campaign but we are reluctant to release that investment until we have good content and support from agents, however the marketing campaign is not for us to advertise to agents but instead to bring our brand to the attention of the public, whose visits to our site will, in the long run, produce our revenue. Keep in mind this is a tried and tested strategy used by some of the biggest online companies in the world.
Once we have a regular flow of content via the various data feed companies around the world (which incidentally we will be paying for) then we will start our public advertising campaign, believe me when I say, they will know who we are.
So how does that benefit you and them? Well yes I suppose Jo and Jane public are well served by a lot of portals and as far as they are concerned one is much the same as the other their only concern is that their property goes on the biggest site and is seen by the most potential clients.
Our improvement as far as agents are concerned is simply a financial one. The theme running through all the agency online forum threads associated with RM is one of ‘we are being fleeced in order to put our listings where our clients want them’.
So if you have the opportunity to list with a portal that advertises as much as RM to position itself in the public eye, with one big difference, it doesn't cost you a penny, then you have nothing to lose (and nothing to do) in order to get your properties listed.
And if you should wish to, then the savings you make in advertising by eventually moving away from RM you could then pass on to your clients.
I know it isn't going to happen overnight changing the agency attitudes is a challenge, but this is a win, win and win situation, for you them and us.
@M Portals should charge per property listed. That is fair. Any other way is not.
Or not charge at all!!!
how is it fair to charge per property?
A terraced house in Liverpool on the market for a quid should pay the same as a mansion house in Kensington on the market for £30,000,000 or are you only thinking what is fair for you?
Rightmove need to get their act together with their fee structures bringing it so everyone pays the same and their arrogant customer service needs to be looked at.
Portals should charge per property listed. That is fair. Any other way is not.
The only really sensible thing to do is demand a results based fee structure; only if a lead introduced by portals goes on to buy a the property they were introduced to by the portal should the portal get a full fee, if the applicant buys a different property then a 50% fee applies.
That would stop all the willy waving exagerated figures.
I'm in the Peterborough area and several years ago I started to see a number of new instructions in the area from Hunters who were based in Bury St Edmunds a whopping 65-miles away.
This continued for months and around half their stock was based in Peterborough and yet on Rightmove, the company address was in Bury!! I couldn't work it out, so I asked my rep at Rightmove what was going on.
They investigated and next thing I knew there was a Hunters based in Peterborough, but at a home address, not a shop.
Turned out that an ex-employee of Hunters in Bury, who lived in Peterborough was touting Peterborough stock with 0.5% fees and his old boss in Bury was loading them onto RM for him. It was effectively a separate business and the bloke from Peterborough was having an unfair advantage over ourselves! He was saving a stack of money and got away with it for about a year.
While I feel for some of the rural agents, this is a reasonable idea by Rightmove to stamp out fraud by some agents.
As a small agent, we would welcome a pay per property business model by RM. It is the fairest way to go and then some agents might actually remove properties that are no longer for sale. I went out to see one last week which I thought had been on the market for 1591 days!! The agent had simply failed to take it off when it sold through another agent!
I think RM are protecting the high street agent, they buggered up letting online agents on their platform, so, to compensate they just keep upping their fees until the fee is so high the vendor may as well use a high street agent, in the meantime rightmove are milking them.
I never thought I would write this....but I think RM have done the right thing here. These online nationals could have stolen a lot of our business.
I feel sick now.
How on earth has the gene pool got so shallow that someone actually thinks this is a genuine measure to support traditional Agents?
Online Agents pay Double! 1 membership allows 50 properties anywhere in the UK, we have been charged double for 2 years now and we have just dropped EVERYTHING. We now only have basic listings, no logo and are saving over £1500 a month, no one cares about premium, featured etc they just want to be on RM, also RM say about branding with the logo, when you are nationwide there is no market share for the local area so there is no point, we are actually going to be knocking it on the head soon as there is NO profit, if you take on a lot of properties you just owe the portals more and more for the next 12 months, i remember paying out £14k a month to the portals in Oct, Nov and Dec!!
Anyway im off skiing anyway with the savings!
i did pay per lead with zoopla for a month--£700 quid later i pay per month,,,i was paying £5 for people to ring up for directions!!
London Agent, i could not agree more and while they are at it allow private vendors to list as well
Express agents are great,they under value your home, tell you its how they get a better price for you, only put you on a website with no local knowlege or staff and you pay more....i love ian botham he makes me ignore my logic....
I agree totally with rightmove,,,we should be congratualting them. Express agency ripping our industry to the ground by misleading around 10 idiots in every town and making a fortune.
They have no rent and the power of the stupid media and govt behind them. Should be made to pay rates on each area they work in as well.
Never though id say this but fair play rightmove for sticking up for normal agents
rather than per property per month charge - why not pay per lead? - its performance related - more homes, more leads, more fee - less homes, less leads, less money - much better!
I agree with you - have set up my own agency recently just using ZPG - have 25% market share of premium end of market in my town (80 homes on the books) - and sold more this year so far than ANY other agent - getting a steady flow of new buyers registering - almost cam to blows with ZPG over back end systems not working for a while but got a refund so happy with - total costs for marketing and set up so far....about £1000 plus about £180 per month on petrol - work from home - use mobile for calls (inclusive minutes) - and dont employ anyone - pipeline is £9k so far - do the math
Does anyone use rightmove overseas? we are thinking of giving it a try.......................
how are you expecting to get in front of the general public?
Isn't it the case that Jo and Jane Puplic are already well served with portals that help them find property self service style? how is adding another choice going to improve that for either Jo and jane or your user agents?
Without a tanker load of cash I can't see how you will improve on NFoPP's Propertylive effort.
Like all patients in ICU everyone laments their imminent passing and hopes in vain for a recovery, but the reality of Propertylive is its lack of cerebal functionality, switch the thing off and free up the bandwidth
You seem like a nice chap and not affraid of being just a "spokesman for..." but I am concerned you haven't worked out how you can change agency attitudes.
@a question for Scott
Now I am assuming you are an independent agent who is working your proverbial butt off to create leads and close deals and to be honest I agree with some of what you have said because I have started to realise that a lot of agents out there are techno-phobes who expect to be spoon fed leads.
So how do we get them to stop trawling YouTube, sit up and take notice, be pro-active and interactive? Well to be honest I'm not sure, so the best thing we can do is to keep ourselves in front of their faces by providing a free advertising service and then sponsor Holly Willabooby’s malfunctioning wardrobe and instead of us collating and providing the leads, simply create a direct link from the adverts on our site direct to the agent, so that anybody who clicks for more information is directed straight to the agents themselves.
Agents won’t be paying us for leads; they won’t be paying us for anything the service is free.
Think of it this way when we are constantly in the public’s face and become a house hold name, then you won’t need to wait for qualified leads to be sent to you because visitors to our site who have a genuine interest in the properties you list with us, will be directed straight to you.
Just a thought..........................
I wonder if RM will one day offer exclusive areas for an enhanced service?
Who are the major shareholders?
Would an 'independent' agent turn down such an offer of one?
Given that Estate Agents are at the ludite end of the conservative spectrum how do you intend to convince agent to use your service?
Most negs turn up for work, open up the desktop of whichever software system they have installed, nod convincingly ( demonstrating confidence is important)and then spend the day trawling through youtube for the latest vids of a Holly Willabooby wardrobe malfunction. Only if the public interupt such activities as a result of looking Rightmove or Zoopla do they ever come into contact with applicants.
How are you going to make lazy negs and technophobic decision makers switch away from systems that let them blag their way through life pretending to be agents?
@Dead Nev
No I don’t for one minute think they will ever roll over and give up, but there is no harm in dreaming.
but Scott you seem to think RM will roll over give up and top up their already tango tans. That isn't going to happen!
@Mr Chamberlain it is a pleasure to speak to you I thought you were long dead.
Rose tinted world I think not, you have no idea how much sweat and tears it has taken to get to this stage.
That aside Mr Chamberlain I can see the analogy between Mr Hitler and the present situation being discussed here.
Young Adolf came from nowhere; his timing was perfect and he rose through the ranks, rallied the people and got them onside, he promised them the world and at first he delivered but eventually the total power he wielded went to his head and he believed he couldn’t be stopped. Many tried and all failed eventually after persecuting and destroying those around him, even his own people turned against him and one happy day hidden in a forest, he put a bullet into his head and the tyrant was dead.
Sounds strangely familiar to me.
We have an alternative launching soon
It's not just another property portal/window and will bring a range of complementary and supportive marketing services which will drive new business to you in sales and lettings and provide the window without the cost or restrictions imposed by the larger players.
Please let me know if you would like a discussion,
@Scott Creasy I thought the threat of war would be enough to see Mr Hilter retiring to the sun.
I simply love your descriptions of a Rose tinted world.
How does a typical on-line nationwide agent have to pay each month - does anyone know?
I promised myself I wouldn't talk about RM anymore but what can I say.
Amazing, absolutely amazing, I shouldn't smile but in the three months I have been reading this newsletter and the resulting comments, I have become more and more convinced that RM are on a suicide mission. They remind me of someone who has been give 6 months to live and has decided to rob every bank in the country before they finally give up the ghost
We are working on our data feed facility at present and by the end of the month Finders and Sellers will be able to accept feeds from nearly all the major Data Feed companies. This is something else we have put in place which will be free.
We thought when the feed was in place we’d need to spend an exceptionally large amount of cash in order to create an advertising campaign and go head to head with RM but if they carry on the way they are, eventually, although I'm surprised it hasn't happened already, the agents amongst you will have no financial choice but to cut the apron strings and leave them, at which point RM will simply retire to the sun and spend their ill earned gains before dying.
Good news for us though.
If as agents we're looking to make a point to RM, might a suggestion be a day or period of action, when we don't list any properties on their site.
You would like that wouldn't you with you 4 or 5 instructions all at £XX,000,000? bargain! How does that help a rural agent with 200+ properties no closer than 3 miles from the office.
It costs no more to host data from 1 office with 100 properties than it does 10 offices each with 10 properties, the server doesn't know where the properties are and doesn't care so it is reasonable to assume that this is just another audacious way of exracting more money out of the industry as a whole.
With enough cash not to care about targets one suspects RM board meeting consist only of thinking of crass ways of mocking Estate Aghents stupidity.
Try as it likes the majority of the Agency world is so heavily reliant on RM it is simply dependant and incapable of selling property applicants that don't make the first move through the internet.
Those that can switch off Rightmove will survive the change that Rightmove are trying to force on the market, those that can not will not be in business more than a couple of years.
It is nice to see that some Agents are beginning to accept what is going on, welcome aboard Ray!
Agents created the beast. Agents should see the value in themselves too. I know many agents now getting deals away from portals where one has the property and another the buyer or tenant.
Large portaals are needed. But do all agents need tl be on all portals. NO.
If RM and Zoopla allow private landlords on via budget agents then there is no reason agents shouldnt be collaborating.
The 2013 OFT/BIS release states "sub agent" twice. If the OFT accepts sub agency then so should large portals.
If private landlords can market next to agent adverts through budget agents, then maybe they shiuld accept some agents dropping accounts and marketing together locally.
Thats great, so if a client has a home more than 5k from the office, I must double the marketing fee or pay for it myself.
Is this to make the local Countrywide offices fees more appealing to the client?
Cynical? me?
It is just another step in RMs intention to control/takeover all residential property marketing.
Who can blame them, but agents should learn from it and make decisions one way or the other!
How much more does it take for fellow agents to ditch RM? We did 3 months ago and ZPG have noticed, reduced our rate card. when they did we went to "gold" membership and are getting all the enquiries we need to sell and rent our places.
there is life after RM.... Feeding the beast will only make it bigger and stronger! Zoopla is now a real and competitive alternative.....
Come on Rightmove - do your worst.
If nothing else it wil pehaps make NFOPP, ARLA, NAEA (or their potential partners) realise what an opportunity they have with PropertyLive !
Too bad if you are a niche agent, retirement, waterfront, equestrian etc property or as has already been said are located in a very rural area.
I can see their point though, think Hunters satalite franchises.
They should have one model - charge per property listed per month - the fairest way and would also then mean if you continue to list all your old sold stock you have to pay for it.
please no more winging - only paying one sub to cover the same area as another agent that has 3 branches and therefore pays 3 subs is unfair as well. Lifes not fair so get over it and make your choice.
This is a strong argument for INEA, COME ON TREVOR MELHAM STEP IN PLEASE!
Rightmove really are a monster of a machine that needs bringing down a peg or two
At this rate, they could end up putting some agents out of business. Does their greed know no bounds?
I am starting to rate these people even lower than a certain too well known high street agent.
what a stupid argument! It simply does not hold water!
How do they intend to charge rural agents where not a single property is within 5km of the office? an office charge per property perhaps?
This is to combat the Multi listing system that allows one office to list properties and the others sell them.
shocking!!