With the days ticking towards PropertyLive’s scheduled demise on Thursday, NAEA boss Mark Hayward has said he is looking at possible alternative options.
Hayward told EAT yesterday: “There is no U-turn – yet – and I am not saying that we are not going to close it. However, we are listening to members.
“I am keen to pursue any and all options with regard to PropertyLive and which will best serve the members.” He said that nothing would be done “irrevocably”.
Hayward said he has had talks with Nick Salmon who is leading the battle for an owned-by-agents-for-agents property portal, and with James Wyatt, the Surrey agent vehemently opposed to the closure of PropertyLive.
Hayward has also received a large number of other objections, comments and also offers of help.
Nick Salmon said yesterday: “I am of the opinion that, with the right guidance, PropertyLive could be restructured into a viable business, but it will require NFoPP to bury any idea of it as a free member benefit, of it being solely for their members, or of NFoPP ultimately having the controlling interest.
“Agents tell me they are willing to subscribe for shares and pay reasonable monthly fees to list on an agent owned site.
“Whether NFoPP has the appetite for such a radical change remains to be seen, but it would be extremely regrettable if they simply throw away what could still form the basis of a bastion against future exploitation of agents by the big portals.”
However, news that the NAEA and ARLA is even still considering options will come as a surprise to members who just a few days ago received unequivocal final confirmation of the website’s closure.
An email dated January 24 was sent to members headed “PropertyLive closure 31st January 2013”.
The email instructed agents to cancel all data forwarding processes to PropertyLive, as its functionality “will cease”.
The email, from Ian Potter and Mark Hayward, ended: “Whilst every effort has been made to find an alternative supplier or service for the PropertyLive portal and for the display of properties, unfortunately NFoPP is currently unable to recommend an alternative.”
Nick Salmon can be reached at nicksalmon@splinta.co.uk
Comments
@ You dont know much etc.
@ Not a surprise
According to RM's 2011 results (2012 due shortly) their assets, which have been built from subscribers payments are stated as following;
a) Net assets at £27m
b) including £22m in cash
c) Net pre tax profit £62.72m (£3,400 per subscriber)
Otherwise known as a cash cow..!!!
Hope this helps.
Always been the case as stated on here for years so thanks for that, what going to chnage then? Nothing.
Wow, dissing google, microsoft and facebook. You are right though, Rightmove in in the company of these giant internet companies. Once you get to a certain level, you are there. It is not just the agents but the buyers and sellers. The first thing sellers want to know is whether I am in Rightmove. Do you think the want to know that I am in Zoopla or Property live? I will be committing financial suicide if I move away from Rightmove. Do you think my customers want a lecture from me about how Rightmove is monopolising all the properties in UK? No, they will walk with their feet.
Other than an extensive set of customers what assets do Rightmove have?
It is a house of cards dependant wholly on the stock of it's customer base. Why is it that Rightmove has never been sold for 10 or 20 times its profit level to... lets suggest Google? Because it has no assets. it has nothing that is set in stone , nothing permanent which is very good reason why a fart fiddling 2 million can take on Rightmove. Let's think of some other fart fiddling projects that did rather well, Microsoft, Google, Facebook.
Once agents realise that it is their goodwill, their experience and their good name that is winning instructions, and that the valuable bit of the internet is the names and addresses and not the marketing budget of corporations then the ought to wake up to who ought to be calling the shots. The biggest gun in the world is reliant on the David who owns the firing cap!
A £2m website fantasising on taking on the £1b behemoth Rightmove. Did anyone really think it would succeed. Maybe James Wyatt ( dont even know who he is) should pur a million of his own money to keep it going for another 3 months. If he is so confident in it.
In the absence of any solid news - perhaps NFoPP are secretly planning to sell PropertyLive to Rightmove to recoup part of their £2m investment.
@Catch22 - agreed.
Furthermore, I would advocate that the successor to PL must be independent from NFoPP control (perhaps a minority shareholding at best) and to have any chance of market success and reaching critical mass with consumers it must be open to the whole of the agency market. A restricted membership/subscription policy will mean that the project is doomed from the start.
I'm not convinced that fixing the existing PL platform is the right path. It is quite often more effective to technically start from scratch and just maintain the PL branding. I'm sure that there are plenty of offers for technical help.
Please explain what CMP has to do with Property Sales.
At no point other than auctions can I think an Estate Agent has to handle Client money so I fail to see what needs protecting.
The whole of the CMP debate effectively insures Clients against fraudulent Agents or Agency staff. The profession has survived quite well enough for many many years without this additional insurance that I personally can not see why it is needed now.
@Catch22 - simply if you apply the CMP requirement you get code of practice and independent redress - thats about as regulated as the Law allows and cuts out the rogue element.
It also negates private ads and resellers of the same.
What is there to be regulated? Next you will be calling for compulsory licencing of all Agents and a requirement to listen to someone blab on for 12 hours in the name of CPD.
I don't think PL2 should be tainted by the curse of Arbon House. That said, agents who advertise must be regulated agents or the USP will be lost
The whole point of realising the importance of those close to NFoPP is that without their support there will be two factions, Those that hold all things NFOPP close to their heart and those who don't.
The only reason to address this from the outset is so that the new venture doesn't fall apart in the months ahead.
The NFOPP guys will need to give a bit and so will those that share your sentiments. the bit the NFoPP guys have to do is realise that the Portal aware folk are currently outside of NFoPP and are likely to be intolerant of the PBK legacy.
Come on @worthless -have the good grace to comment further
@worthless - RICS arrogance personified. really amusing exchange!
Dear Worthless - "I will excuse your ignorance".....
Prepare for egg on your face and sincere thanks that your misguided rudeness was made anonymously......
From Ombudsman Services website http://www.ombudsman-services.org/property.html
"We are also appointed by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) and the Association of Residential Managing Agents (ARMA) to handle complaints about their members."
Smile.....
RICS has a royal charter - different. They also fail to mention lettings anywhere on their site and employed PBK - so I would stay silent. ;)
Ignorance?? Unresolved consumer complaints go to Property Ombudsmans Services.
All sales agents must be registered with an independent redress scheme. RICS isn't one.
Feeling silly now?
and the RICS which of course is a professional body, as such runs its own redress scheme, I will excuse your ignorance. Now who made rthe worhtless comment???
@worthless - indeed, a worthless comment.
Independent redress must be just that hence TPOS
NAEA, so highly qualified they are not deemed fit to run a redress scheme.......................................?????
@ ARLA & NAEA member
Well said. I would be happy for Nick Salmon to put a team together - Mr Wyatt is too close to NFoPP, admirable though he is.
I am really fed up with NFoPP and need a reason to remain as frankly, my staff and I ask 'what's the point?' I can no longer think of one.
Sadly and ironically, the enthusiasm shown by members and potential saviors will prove the undoing as now NFoPP will think they have a chance of saving it.
It cannot work with NFoPP running it for many reasons.
I too urge NFoPP to call in the cyber cavalry - Members paid for it - it should be THEIR decision not those who let us down.
If they do not, I will resign from both ARLA and NAEA - not that I carry any weight and no one will care - but the principle works for me and this is the last straw after the appointment of Mark Hayward rather than taking the opportunity to bring in new blood.
If NFoPP had invented email, there would be more post offices.
This project cannot be left in the hands of those whose have so spectacularly failed. They wont change and no one has confidence to invest in them.
Make no mistake - funding will be key. You need leadership, innovation, vision and backing.
Please NFoPP, let someone new take the lead. There are some big names mentioned on here who have respect, connections and who work in a commercial world. Don;t let the £2m of our money go to waste. Please.
Lets be honest. Arbon does an acceptable job maintaining NAEA and ARLA. Nevertheless, after 40 odd years, they should.
I say render unto Caesar all that is Caesars and let the new generation develop new technology.
@ People like James Wyatt
There is a common denominator to failure.
Arbon House.
are the sort of people who will decide what is successful.
Those folk have a strong loyalty to Propertylive being the only ones to really try to make something of it. However while the influence lies with characters like James they must realise that Propertylive with their support has not succeeded and they will face a devils job trying to do the same job as Arbon have done.
Getting behind something different that is more palatable to the majority of Agents and not just the NFoPP loyalists will be the way forward so rather than keep the life support machine switched on for another couple of monrths, let PL die.
STOP PRESS: GROUND BREAKING EXCLUSIVE
NAEA boss says 'We're listening to members'
I have not renewed.
Nor will I.
There is an opportunity here which if grasped could be great. What can't happen is for the site to be ressurected by those who let this situation happen for whatever reason
Imagine NAEA pitching it to Dragons Den and Peter Jones asking 'so, tell me about your track record'.
It would be a short episode.
Rightly or wrongly, members will not have confidence investing / subscibing to PL2 with Arbon House at the helm. It needs to be commercially viable
As usual confusion reigns at NFOPP (NAEA/ARLA do not control Propertylive - it is NFOPP?) as it has done for a number of years. Keep them all out of this.
Watch out for the "techies" They have their place and expertise but it is the agents businesses.
You want what you want - not what they want!
Back the instigatorsof this latest initiative, like Nick Salmon, and if you agree with them back them, if asked with cash too. How can anything get off the ground without some speculative investment?
The reality is that this is an opportunity. If Haywire and his team at NAEA do a u-turn, it will die. They have royally screwed it up over a number of years.
The site doen't need investment alone - it needs innovation, direction and an alternative USP to the established sites.
My concern is that with renewed interest, NAEA will see it as salvation. PL2 needs fresh ideas and fresh blood. Musty suits at Arbone house are not able to do this - it needs the hippy geeks from Slicone Roundabout to create...
It needs people who listen and who surround themselves with the best people who innovate.
PLEASE NAEA - let it go and let it grow.
There are bound to be more Trojan Horse at the gates of Arbon House than one can imagine.
My concern given the Executives’ track record over the last 6 or 7 years is which one they will let through to help them. The commercial portals will no doubt be offering their services; Alex for one has a track record of giving sanctuary to the Nags of the portal world.
Still receiving e-mails from PropertyLive advising me I haven't loaded any properties up for a while!
@RosRenshaw - we did ask some questions, and were promised specific answers, but after a few days waiting were emailed back with template style token cliches. Our questions were not answered.
We have been members of Arla for a very long time and this is the first time we are feeling let down. Very let down.
There must be much we aren't being told.
PL cannot work with NAEA at the helm. The dont have the imagination nor leadership skills to make it work.
No agents will pay NAEA a subscription
the story concludes
“Whilst every effort has been made to find an alternative supplier or service for the PropertyLive portal and for the display of properties, unfortunately NFoPP is currently unable to recommend an alternative.”
Please would you enquire on our behalf what exactly they have done. It very much appears that they are continuing to simply ignore help from people able, experienced and qualified to help them. It would be really interesting to hear what "every effort" is rather than it being a token cliché designed to take the pressure off them.
Who have they been in contact with and when?
that Bolton King wanted rid of. Having gotten rid of the likes of you and me, the sorts of folk who don't think Facebook is an appropriate means of communication or replacement for branch meetings, it is unlikely they want us back. Certainly there has been no communication from the memership department in 13 months asking us ExF's to consider rejoining now PBK has gone.
Survival of the association ought to be a priority over pandering to the few Agents who actually support Propertylive.
Their decision, their choice!
I was also thinking of re joining im an agent of 30 years, with more experience tham many operating my very succesful 4 branch practice, Im certainly not taking tests to re join. NAEA needs to look at its position nand invite back good former members like me and many others i could name.
I was giving serious consideration to re-joining NAEA based on the fact that Hayward had to fortitude to make a difficult but informed decision. I think my cheque book can go back in the drawer till this is settled.
All well and good for NAEA members but that is what 20% of all the agents in the country (10,000 out of 55,000)?
Propertylive is the last problem that NFoPP need to be fixing.
Someone needs to repair the damage done by the Bolton King years before worrying about a portal that can be left on alone for 12 months with no harm done to its public awareness.
Additionally shares and subscriptions will not improve the Agency ignorance of the current technical team or their arrogance that they do not know what they are doing.
I might only be a small crack in the ambitions but this is one agent who wants nothing to do with NFOPP or Propertylive.