Someone living in London and earning an average salary would have to save up for over 19 years to afford the deposit for a home.
Data from new saving and investing website InvestorBee which analyses saving habits from over one million people in the UK, says the average Londoner earns £45,758 and saves approximately 9.6% (£4,379) of their salary each year.
With the average house price in Greater London standing at almost £430,000, according to the Land Registry, it would take 19.6 years to save a 20% deposit.
By contrast, someone in the north earning an average northerner’s salary of £27,859 and saving 10.6% of their salary, would take 10.4 years to save up a deposit, with the average house price standing at £153,025.
Despite relatively high average house prices in East Anglia (£196,911), average salaries are high at £34,443, meaning that someone would have to save 11.9 years for a deposit.
Surprisingly, people in the South-West take longer to save for a deposit than those in the South-East, because although house prices are higher in the South-East (£291,268 compared with £236,912), people in the South-East earn more (£37,230) than their counterparts in the South-West (£28,167).
People have different reasons for saving, with almost a quarter (22%) stating that their number one saving objective is for retirement. The same percentage (22%) admit to not saving at all. The proportion of non-savers is most apparent in the North and Yorkshire where nearly a third (30%) of people are unable or unwilling to save anything.
After retirement, the next most popular saving goal nationwide is an emergency fund, with 12% of UK residents aiming to build up a financial buffer as protection against the uncertainty of the current economic climate.
Graham Mannion, managing director and founder of InvestorBee, says: “On average across the UK, where Brits choose to save, they’re putting aside 9.7% of their salary.
“Retirement and emergency funds are currently the highest priorities for savers. But with the current rate of inflation at over 5%, standard savings accounts are not preserving long-term spending power.”
InvestorBee is a new service that gives people financial information and sets realistic saving targets.
Users can benchmark their current savings habits and investment strategies against what other people like them are doing, make more informed decisions for the future and choose the savings strategies that are right for them.
www.InvestorBee.com
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Comments
rant: "It's not difficult to find evidence of the trouble building up in the BTL world."
Matey - that's not so much the BTL world - more the RWP (Rent Without Paying) world. Yes - it affects the Landlord (not necessarily BTL's you must agree...) in that they lost income - but the hard fact is that there are tenants ready and willing to jump straight into the shoes of the evictees - most of which will not cause the LL the same problems and restore decorum!
It is a sad fact of our society that some people fall on hard times... but it is a much sadder fact that a far larger proportion are just plain devious.
It is THOSE who spoil renting for the masses - as it is THOSE who Landlords use as a benchmark to judge EVERYONE.
It's not difficult to find evidence of the trouble building up in the BTL world. The EAT sister site Letting Agent Today is currently running an article with the title 'Big rise in court possession orders as tenants struggle'.
I like the Bridgfords comment from Lorraine Smith
Lorraine Smith MARLA, Bridgfords Lettings, 01609 783520, Northallerton, North Yorkshire -
Due to landlords not able to sell. Supply into the rental market has increased making the tenants more selective and the competition higher.
Landlords rent do they not? Vendors Sell....!
and
10 properties available in Northallerton to rent according to rightmove, I assume they have just one applicant looking then! what a selcection
5 mile radius of Northallerton and a full exra 5 properties become available!
FBA, RnR posts probably the best post yet of the thread which clearly highlights directly from professionals working at the sharp end exactly how well the BTL market is holding up and THAT is your response.
Yes thanks. Do you?
Rant,
do you know the difference between an arse and an elbow?
Since you all like my copy & pasting, here are some snippets of the comments from today's RICS reports re residential lettings:
Lorraine Smith MARLA, Bridgfords Lettings, 01609 783520, Northallerton, North Yorkshire -
Due to landlords not able to sell. Supply into the rental market has increased making the tenants more selective and the competition higher.
David Coulson FRICS, Broadley and Coulson, 01388 766676, Crook, Durham -
Tenants are a lot more careful and want a lot more for their money. They are more selective as there is a lot more properties on the market
R A Storey MRICS, R A Jackson & Son, 0191 257 1253, North Shields, Tyne & Wear -
Huge difficulty finding good tenants at bottom end of market. More vacancies due to tenants losing employment and returning to parents.
P M Mawer FRICS, Cranswicks, 01262 672110, Bridlington, East Yorkshire -
Landlords have had to reduce rent levels and lower their criteria to obtain occupancy.
Richard Towler BS MRICS, Simpson Towler, 01768 899421, Penrith, Cumbria -
The worsening economic situation, job losses and stop - start housing sales market has created a fall in demand for
lettings, coupled with an increase in supply. How long this lasts remains to be seen, as the market is unpredictable.
Katie Wilcox-Smith, Strutt & Parker LLP, 01858 433123, Market Harborough, Leicestershire -
Tenants are offering less money for the larger properties and landlords are accepting these offers to ensure the houses are lived in over the winter and to ensure some rent is coming in.
Adrian Loak MRICS, Peachey Loak, 01933 403233, Wellingborough, Northamptonshire -
Market has been extremely quiet, finding tenants at the top end of the market is becoming very difficult.
S J Elkington FRICS, Hodgson & Elkington, 01522 698899, Lincoln, Lincolnshire -
More court possession orders sought after section 21 served. Finding more tenants unable to pay rent through financial hardship.
Rachel Johnson, John German, 01785 236610, Stafford, Staffordshire -
Although reports in the media of increased rents appear in the Midlands this is not evidenced by recent lets.
John Andrews FRICS IRRV, Doolittle & Dalley, 01562 821600, Stourport, Worcestershire -
Over the last month, levels of applications for new tenancies have generally decreased, although supply has increased. After a very busy summer period, prospective tenants now have a greater choice of properties currently available, particularly flats which are slower to let.
John Andrews FRICS IRRV, Doolittle & Dalley, 01562 821600, Kidderminster, Worcestershire -
Over the last month, there has been evidence of a slow-down in the demand for rented accommodation in this area, although availability of property has increased. Prospective tenants, therefore, have a greater choice which is resulting in landlords needing to be more competitive on rental levels. Noticeable increase in the number of flats available, which currently exceed demand.
W J Hartnell FRICS, Simon Matthew & Co., 01277 355255, Brentwood, Essex -
Lettings are still proceeding, but the time taken from receiving instructions to letting is now very long. This is due to the difficulty in finding good tenants. Many tenants now have bad credit ratings due to them being unable to pay off credit arrangements.
Zaza Patterson, Carter Jonas, 01962 876838, Winchester, Hampshire -
A recent flurry of activity! Very cost sensitive; more negotiation. More houses going onto the lettings market after unsuccessful sales campaigns esp. £1m plus.
Bronagh Boyd MRICS, Digney Boyd, 028 30833233, Newry, Down -
Landlords are trying to off load some of their portfolio to
reduce exposure to banks who are applying pressure with the message “we have no appetite for property”. They should have thought about that before they boosted the market and advised investors to acquire.
Carolyn Davies MRICS, G M Thomson & Co, 01387 254424, Dumfries, Dumfriesshire -
Reliance on local population to rent with lack of employment opportunities and very slow sales has led to an over supplied rental market. Rents are static / falling.
Robert Bayliss, Morris Marshall & Poole, 01686 62660, Newtown, Powys -
We have seen a decrease in younger people applying for property to rent which means we have had a surplus of small flats available to rent.
Richard Williams Student member., McCartneys LLP, 01497 820 778, Hay on Wye, Herefordshire -
Busy period, expectations are high, only the better
properties letting.
J A Turnbull FRICS, White and Sons, 01306 743344, Dorking, Surrey -
Tenants are looking to downsize due to the wider
economic climate. They are seeking to control overall costs of occupation. Landlords are seeking increases in rent from existing tenants following press reports which are resisted by tenants some of whom would move rather then pay more which risks a void period for landlord.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apparently, there's never been a better time to get into BTL
“3 Bed Semi available. £250,000 repayments £1200pcm”
At current mortgage rates. Influenced heavily by interest rates at a 200 years low. If you think it is ‘different this time’ and rates will never go back up again, and they can’t go any lower, then go ahead.
“Or rent the same, £1460pcm, giving your new landlord 7% yield.”
IF you can command that rent you also have a number of other factors including voids, insurance, repairs, time and crucially exposure to price falls.
“Rents are going up, and up, and up.. it will be a higher rent next year.”
Watching used to say this about house prices too, beware his record on these matters.
“Buy what you want and where you want it to be, and of course, no dodgy landlord to pester the life out of you because you have a cat.”
I don’t disagree, if that is what you want to do. But do it with your eyes open and be aware you may end up losing the place if you leverage much to get it.
LoL - someone still doesn't know the difference between a deposit and a loan. And they work in the business of selling houses! I've copied and saved their post in case they need reminding of it later.
To all FTB'ers who may be swerved by such twaddle is Frog spouts.
3 Bed Semi available. £250,000 repayments £1200pcm
Or rent the same, £1460pcm, giving your new landlord 7% yield.
Rents are going up, and up, and up.. it will be a higher rent next year.
Suggestion !!
Buy what you want and where you want it to be, and of course, no dodgy landlord to pester the life out of you because you have a cat.
Happy hunting
Added by rantnrave on 2011-12-07 12:30:56
100% deposits, not 100% loans. What would happen to UK house prices if it became illegal to buy a property with borrowed money?
Still LOL!
“Its a disaster waiting to bankrupt anyone with a portfolio”
Yet you offer these individuals this advice that could save them a fortune and they will throw it back in your face and rave at you for having tried to help them at all.
“Think about 'owning a home to live in' “
Classic misdirection. Of course FTB’ers want a home, but what they are being asked to do at the current time is lock themselves into considerable debt during a period of possible deflationary collapse and high job insecurity in order to prop up prices in a dysfunctional market.
In any normal market a collapse in volumes suggests a price correction is warranted. House prices are being propped up by considerable government and Central bank interference. Leverage now to buy a ‘home’ and your only end up losing it a few years later along with your deposit. Better wait, allow the correction to play out, use savings when prices match reality. I’m not trading up now for precisely that reason.
i've said before BTL is gonna be hit on many fronts
1/prices will fall
2/btl will be in for tax rises
3/interest/mortgage rates will only go up
4/rents will fall
Its a disaster waiting to bankrupt anyone with a portfolio
many many will lose everything...then they'll have first hand experience on the other side of the coin
How do you get from a story on FTB's to rants about BTL?
Thicko!
Think about 'owning a home to live in'
If you are talking investments, consider art, gold, shares, oh! and maybe property. Take ter 20 grand you got gifted and buy a sodding painting and go spread the bile in art forums.
FTB'ers in the main will see themselves as needing a home first and foremost. Your BTL advice to them serves only to skew the mind in respect of the main objective... HAVING A HOME
A quick back of the envelope calculation for BTLs in Peterborough (I believe that's where Chris said his properties are - correct me if I'm wrong though!).
Using the latest Land Reg details in regard to Peterborough and taking inflation into account, the value of those three properties lost a combined £2,500 in October. If that's part of a wider BTL investment, then the potential monthly decrease in the portfolio could be into five figures.
Some BTLers are in it for the long run. More than a few would be quaking in their boots (to put it politely) at such a loss in their investment during one month though.
“Oh and before anyone says something dumb like "You won't be laughing if the BOE put interest rates up to 8% or some of your houses stand empty and you can't let all of them and have to sell them at a loss"”
But what would you and the thousands of other BTL’ers like you do when your mortgage rates go up? Or are you working on the assumption that they never will?
“Why if money was freely available - and cheap money interest rate wise - would as previously seen insatiable demand not drive the average price to £350K?!!!
What on earth makes you think plentiful cheap money and limited supply drives prices down?”
One of the defining features of this site is the regularity with which you get someone who is not terribly bright attempting to act very patronising. If you want to try and show me up you’re advised to actually read what i wrote first.
“Not an economist are you?!!”
Yes actually. Published as well.
Chris -
I am not knocking your choice of Investment.....at least you have made a choice...... but you have to consider a couple of things
1. You said none of the properties you bought in 2006 and 2007 are in neg equity but said they lost 18% of there value....so they are in negative equity.
2. 20 years at low rates....I dont think so.....3-5 maybe!!
3. If rents continue to rise at well above wage inflation rates in the long term, renting simply becomes as unaffordable as buying is. So just as there are those that wish to buy but cant there are those that wish to rent but cant.
This will result in reduced demand in the rental sector and downward pressure on rent and house prices.
4. Political influences
There are many lobbyists pushing for higher/different taxes on BTL and second homes......who knows if they will be succesful or not.
Good luck with your investments though I hope your plan works out for you
Dave, pop next door and ask George what he thinks?
chris
you won't be laughing when you can't find a tenant and your investments at the top of the market half in value.
you friendly building society will be trying to make you bankrupt
Good for you Chris. It would be worth you keeping your eyes on LIBOR rather than the BoE rate though, because that's having the much larger impact on mortgage rates these days. It's rising (as it did pre the crunch in 2008) and that has been passed straight on to borrowers in recent days.
I bought three BTL properties back in 2006 & 2007 near where we live. A few years later I began to regret buying them as prices began to fall and lost around 18% on each!
Then it occured to me that mortgages were becoming very hard to aquire and while my mortgage rates were fairly high and fixed for a number of years, they have started coming to the end of their fixed periods and are dropping down to the variable rates.
I got a call today from the C&G asking if he could help us with any other mortgages, but when I started enquiring about what the variable rate would be, he stated base rate plus 2%, so currently 2.5%. It is currently 6.19%!!
He told me that mortgages sold after 2007 would not drop that low after they matured and I was lucky to be on one of the old mortgages! :-) So while I may have lost some money on the value of each property and paid a few percent higher for 4 or 5-years, the remaining 20-years should be on nice low rates (As long as the BOE rate stays low) and because no one can afford to buy, my rental income is rising faster than inflation!!! Yipee.
Does it matter to me if buyers have to save 10-years or more to buy a house? No, not at all as this will keep strong rental prices going for the next 10-years and at this rate, together with lower mortgage payments means that the tenants will be buying my houses for me earlier than I had planned. :-)
Who cares what I paid for my houses when they are virtually free to me anyway, because the tenants are buying them for me. Once they are all paid off, I'll retire and at this rate, I'll be retired before I'm 50. Bargain.
Oh and before anyone says something dumb like "You won't be laughing if the BOE put interest rates up to 8% or some of your houses stand empty and you can't let all of them and have to sell them at a loss" None of the properties are in negative equity (I have been making overpayments each month as the rental income is double the mortgage repayments) and now 50% of my stock can sit empty and is covered by the other 50% that would be occupied. Not at all leveraged on my 4-BTL's.
When your smiling, when your smiling, the whole world smiles with you ................. Lol.
Miss Mischief: "...the average London property is probably 8 times the cost of a Northern Property, so my suggestion is for the London FTB's save hard for a deposit on a Northern property, buy it, rent it out, so at least they are on the property ladder.
That way in 10 years once the market has picked up and values improved, the poor Londoner can sell up, take their cash out and put it towards their swanky London pad, thus saving 10 years on the 20 year plan."
Great suggestion - NOT! How about you southerners keep your money where you need it, and leave us nrotherners to be able to buy our own properties instead of having to deal with pathetic hobby landlords who haven't even HEARD of the place they are buying in - let alone visited it?
Here's MY suggestion:
You keep your bright ideas to yourself. Or move to Brazil, where you will be able to afford a right swanky pad on just one single week's wage that you Londoners 'earn'.
Now that last idea WILL "help people out" - as they won't have to read such utter cr@p from you again and their lives will be so much brighter... ;o)
So have I got this right? As well as their 20% deposit they will also need a mortgage at 7-8 X salary. That's sustainable. lol
That sum clearly shows house prices are far too high and need to fall.
Thankfully places like Chelsea are leading London in big price falls now. :)
You boys make me laugh! You spend all day everyday having a pop at each other, never staying on point, drivelling on and own about Roman soldiers for god sake........ give me strength.
Its always the same old faces saying the same old thing - I sit here reading them all, having to be prodded every now and again because I have nodded off.
Any chance of somebody saying something interesting / witty for once - or even just staying on the subject might be nice. Actually, what was the subject ? Oh yes, FTB's having to save for 20 years! Well its a sad fact that the average London property is probably 8 times the cost of a Northern Property, so my suggestion is for the London FTB's save hard for a deposit on a Northern property, buy it, rent it out, so at least they are on the property ladder.
That way in 10 years once the market has picked up and values improved, the poor Londoner can sell up, take their cash out and put it towards their swanky London pad, thus saving 10 years on the 20 year plan.
I am sure you will all jump up and down and go red and have a shout at me for getting my figures wrong or not mentioning Roman Soldiers, but boys, give a girl a break, dont shout or critisise me. Come up with some good ideas that can help people out and STOP WAFFLING!!! ;)
I reckon Genghis Khan probably wasn't too troubled by debt crises either...
Not sure I agree that the inflation we have today is going to solve much. People are clearly cutting back on spending which is showing up in higher unemployment. That's less VAT for the govt, less income tax and more handed out in benefits.
Firing up the printing presses will likely cause more of the same type of inflation.
Back in the days when Pee Bee was wearing flares, price inflation lead to higher wages. The unions today are much weaker I reckon and the Chinese will happily do our jobs for less money. Wage inflation today seems as likely as John Travolta's dancing making a comeback.
dave...dave...dave. You really come out with some corkers, don't you.
Behold the latest 'daveism' - "This means that UK houseprices are going nowhere but down..probably for around 18 years like gold and oil did from 1980 to 1999"
Oh, yeah. Oil and gold. Both REALLY bad investments in the 80s and 90s. SO glad you never dabbled then, huh?
Remind me - where are they now in the "SH!T - wish I'd bought back in the day..." league?
I'll bet they're RIGHT UP THERE!
Keep em coming, dave. Fish in a barrel - and we're all tooled up and ready to rock! ;o)
Added by dave on 2011-12-07 16:39:14
anyone who thinks being in property is going to be anything other than disastrous,might like to see how irelands property 'investors' fared
Do they live in tents now?
Dear Dave,
Slower for you...ok?
In - Flay - Shun
That is how the collective governments will attack debt. It erodes debt.
In - Flay - Shun = upwards not downwards. It may take time, there is no reset button like on a computer game, let me explain to you.
The first Greek debt crisis was in 490 BC when the great Athenian warrior Kallimachos pledged to sacrifice a young goat to the Gods for every enemy that was killed at the battle of Marathon. His troops slaughtered some 6,400 invaders. The Athenians didn’t have that many young goats. So they spread the repayment and legend has it that it took them a century to honour the pledge.
George is working on it. Pop next door to his office and ask him how it works.
well its pretty clear that the current debt situation is not solvable...otherwise they would have done so.
thier real worry is deflation as it increases the value of debt so they are doing all they know...propping up the syatem hoping the world economy will grow.
unfortunately this is not happening either...ultimately we will have to have a debt reset probably in all countries and the consequences of that are austerity measures worldwide.
This means that UK houseprices are going nowhere but down..probably for around 18 years like gold and oil did from 1980 to 1999
Dear Dave,
So what should be done?
Is it the Greek/Euro problem? Or home grown?
What’s past is prologue: History is littered with sovereign defaults. For some answers, let’s go back — WAY back.
The first recorded sovereign default appears to have happened in, um, Greece, according to “Foreign Bonds: An Autopsy,” by Max Winkler and Thomas H. Healy. (In fairness to Greece, the first recorded instances of many things are in Greece. )
The year was around 400 B.C.; Plato was an up-and-coming young philosopher; and Dionysius of Syracuse, a noted tyrant, had a problem: He’d borrowed too much money from his subjects.
Dionysius’s solution was to appeal to the solidarity of tribes all across Europe to pool their money into a giant pot that would repay Dionysius’s debts.
Not really. Actually, Dionysius ordered all money handed over to the government upon pain of death. He then reminted every coin, turning each one-drachma coin into a two-drachmae coin. The tyrant was then able to pay all his debts in full; maybe no one noticed that the real value of the coinage had been halved.
If that’s the kind of decisive policy that investors are looking for to solve the euro-zone debt crisis, the Lisbon Treaty will need a few amendments.
It should be noted that Dionysius enjoyed several advantages over the contemporary Greek state. First, he was a tyrant and could largely do what he liked. Second, all his debts were domestically held. He hadn’t borrowed money from barbarian tribes in the northern wilderness, for example. The Greek government, on the other hand, has creditors scattered across the euro zone.
Greece has the advantage that it now uses a fiat currency and thus wouldn’t need to shoulder the burden of actually rounding up euros. The European Central Bank could simply print more of them. But the tribes that control the ECB are opposed to running the printing presses at full tilt.
You might object that this isn’t an example of default but rather of inflation through currency devaluation. Maybe so (take it up with Winkler and Healy, who are dead). But it’s interesting that even a tyrant like Dionysius thought it preferable to devalue the currency by half rather than repay only half the nominal value of his debts.
That speaks to the ease of dealing with over-indebtedness through inflation rather than nominal haircuts. Perhaps Dionysius would have faced a popular revolt had he refused to repay the face value of the notes.
Instead, the inflation strategy allowed him to continue his reign of terror on the peoples of the Mediterranean until the ripe old age of 65, when he was either poisoned by his son or drank himself to death in ecstasy after hearing that a play he wrote, “The Ransom of Hector,” won a competition at the Lanaean festival in Athens.
You gotta go somehow.
I think you will find the government will follow this example and allow inflation to erode current indebtedness. If they do, it could blow your theory.
Note, Someone please tell George, Dave has not got his head around it yet. Ta
Phew Dave!
I was reet worried for a bit, but now I can relax, my tent business is going to boom soon... if your predictions are right.
Those of you that are not adults please return to the playground
anyone who thinks being in property is going to be anything other than disastrous,might like to see how irelands property 'investors' fared
its coming to the UK and its going to be a total bloodbath
as prices plunge people will buy rather than rent and buy to let portfolios will be liquidated and the owners bankrupted
AND it will go on for a long long long timepeople working,investing and dealing in property won't know what hit them
@FBA -" Do you know how many business I have and what they are" We have no Idea, do you want to tell us?
I still think Dave's predictions will be wrong though!
@Dave - I predict all your predictions will be wrong.
Can't we have a rightmove story now, fed up playing with the dead meat rantrave, very funny chain!
Blimey Dave,
Was your Mum Doris Stokes? Did you inherit some of her powers?
Do you know how many business I have and what they are? Will I close them all?
Do you know the lottery numbers for this weekend?
Im not one for pulling poeples posts to bits as PeeBee does, but seriously matie, things in your list cant happen at the same time as one or two negative scenarios in your predictions there there would negate/stimulate others.
That wind up worked better than I thought it would ;)
oh dear fun boy agent
I predict that within 12 months
1/you may be out of a job
2/the business you work for will be in trouble
3/prices will fall dramatically
4/mortgage rates will increase
5/buy to let portfolios will be trashed
looks to me like your going to be hit from every single angle in your life
hats on!
Who me?
Mistake?
Never......
Well... once or twice....
But:
"Finance is the art of passing currency from hand to hand until it finally disappears." – Robert W. Sarnoff
So you work it out.
lol
!!!
Read post one - FBA clearly states bringing back 100% DEPOSITS.
The Frog's response was right, such a ridiculous and never going to happen scenario would see house prices tumbling.
The muppet at post 8 assumed the Frog was talking about 100% loans.
I merely pointed out that the Frog's response to FBA's original bizarre statement (a typo, I'm sure) was correct.
It was your deposit comment that started this FBA!
; )
You did mean loan in the first post I assume? I'll at least credit you with knowing the difference between a loan and a deposit.
Come on rant, admit your error.
It would be stupid to insist on 100% deposits only. You are, as the mexicans would say, loco!
Such misery !
09:53:40 FBA says: Bring back 100% DEPOSITS.....
11:55:36 The Frog says: I would LOVE IT if that was the case, average house prices would fall back to about £35k.
12:28:33 Anonymous, not knowing the difference between a 100% LOAN and a 100% DEPOSIT says:
@Frog
Why if money was freely available - and cheap money interest rate wise - would as previously seen insatiable demand not drive the average price to £350K?!!!
What on earth makes you think plentiful cheap money and limited supply drives prices down?
Not an economist are you?!!
12:30:56 rantnrave kindly points out the error than Anon has made, and provides the example that if people weren't allowed to borrow money to buy a house, very few could afford to buy. Ergo, in a situation of 100% DEPOSITS, house prices would be cheaper
13:42:44 Anon embarrasses themselves again, by misreading a second post
14:19:58 rantnrave once again points out Anon's error
15:01:48 Anon makes a fool of themself for the third time...
Rantrave when you start posting something orginal and intersting like, FBA and PeeBee, peolple wll read, for now they just realise you offer nothing beyond and cut and paste.
However, your " make borwing illegal" has made everyone laugh, sadly for you, at you not with you.
Before 600 B.C. there was no monetary system in Greece, so they utilized the barter system. This was a system of trading goods and /or services for other goods and/or services. By 500 B.C., each city-state began minting their own coin. A merchant usually only took coins from their own city. Visitors had to find a moneychanger to exchange their coins. Typically a 5 or 6 percent fee was charged to exchange foreign currency to the local currency.
Athens used a currency known as the drachma. Their currency was widely used because of the large trade network that they developed. Often an Athenian coin could be used in other Greek cities and not have to be exchanged for the local currency.
The Athenian monetary system was set up in the following way:
6 obols = 1 drachma
100 drachma = 1 mina
600 minae = 1 talent (or the equivalent of 57 pounds of silver)
A worker in Athens could earn about two drachmas a day. Sculptors and doctors were able to make up to six drachmas daily. An unskilled worker would make around half of a drachma for one day’s work.
The typical costs of goods in ancient Greece:
loaf of bread 1 obol
lamb 8 drachmas
gallon of olive oil 5 drachmas
shoes 8 to 12 drachmas
slaves 200 to 300 drachmas
houses 400 to 1000 drachmas
By this calculation, and taking into account modern weekends, bank holidays, normal holidays, etc. working 239 days the average unskilled Ancient Greek got about 120 drachmas a year. Wow, that looks like the same sorta %tages we have now.
Funny that !!
It's a response to the post at 12:28:33. They clearly didn't read the comment they were responding to and neither it seems did you.
It's a clarification of the point made at the end of the Frog's post.
Do keep up at the back!
Benno...: "The Roman soldier got his villa after 20 years... "
This article is all about AVERAGES - so I will continue in the same vein.
From various literary sources:
"During the Roman Empire, Romans had a approximate life expectancy of 22 to 25 years."
So, sunshine - 'yer average' Roman soldier DIDN'T LIVE TO COLLECT his 20 year 'bonus'!
So much for an incentive, huh?
(Oh - they also got paid a percentage of their wage in SALT. Obviously to rub into the wound, methinks...! ;o) )
Rant- where did you cut and paste that from? you now appear to be getting desperate to get your message across, its not working! Illegal to borrow money what drivel!
To all those poor HPC'ers.
Money can buy a House............But not a Home
Money can buy a Bed..............But not Sleep
Money can buy a Clock............But not Time
Money can buy you a Book.........But not Knowledge
Money can buy you Medicine.......But not Health
Money can buy you Sex............But not Love
So you see money isn't everything. And it often causes pain and suffering. I tell you all this because I am your friendly estate agent, and as your friendly state agent I want to take away your pain and suffering. You are not going to buy a house, this is obvious. You will just suffer for years to come in this market.
So send me all your money..........
And I will suffer for you.
Smart fella - Thanks for the compliment...so why don't they?
Froggy Frog Frog, you truly are muppet like.
You respond to an obvious 'piss take' now that is funny!
If FTB'ers think like this we are all doomed... doomed Mr Mainwaring, I'm telling you, dooooooomed.
On the other hand. 'they don't like it up 'em'
100% deposits, not 100% loans. What would happen to UK house prices if it became illegal to buy a property with borrowed money?
'By contrast, someone in the north earning an average northerner’s salary of £27,859'
WHAT!!!!! People up north earn 27 grand a year? what the hell am I doing down here then!
@Frog
Why if money was freely available - and cheap money interest rate wise - would as previously seen insatiable demand not drive the average price to £350K?!!!
What on earth makes you think plentiful cheap money and limited supply drives prices down?
Not an economist are you?!!
Sorry below should have finished
"...when you can lend the same money times over at 80% LTV"
One of the most significant articles I've seen on here in a while. Yes statistically is worthy of great detail, as is all statistical analysis, but average prices are average prices and so are salaries.
Anyone thinking 100% mortgages will ever come back other than with a £5000 arrangement fee and an interest rate probably several points above the norm is deluding themselves. Getting a 90% mortgage at anything close to normal rates and fees will be a triumph for the next 5 years at least, and I'd guess 15% will be the norm and will stay there after that.
Why?
Because banks are getting the taste for safety and security as opposed to risk and foolishness. With money so tight in supply why bother risking a loan at 90% LTV no matter how good a prospect the borrower isd (assuming you ever see him in person)
“Or am I right in thinking the average Roman soldier, 2000 years ago, had to put in 20 years of service before he got his villa?”
After 20 years they (usually) got a small farm owned outright. This would be enough to support his extended family.
“Young people save? Outrageous I say.”
Depends if you think that 40 which is rapidly becoming the FTB age, is young or not.
“Bring back 100% deposits..... NOW”
I would LOV E IT if that was the case, average house prices would fall back to about £35k.
Goodness me, you are sooooooooooooo clever Happy.
This mean average salary to buy the mean average property is flawed. What they should compare is the mode average salary of potential ftb'ers (young) and the mode average price of starter homes.....by area.
FBA: You're correct in a sense. The Roman soldier got his villa after 20 years... OUTRIGHT. Not 20 years' service for a poxy deposit on it.
Is this a new thing?
Or am I right in thinking the average Roman soldier, 2000 years ago, had to put in 20 years of service before he got his villa?
Young people save? Outrageous I say.
Bring back 100% deposits..... NOW
Save those poor savers