Domestic Energy Assessors have protested strongly that they are not being consulted about the Green Deal. Among their concerns is the worry that the HIPs-style debacle, where too many energy workers were trained up at their own expense, could easily be repeated.
The DEAs say they have been snubbed by the Government and that decisions about the future of the energy assessment industry itself are being made without consultation from within the industry.
The Institute of Domestic Energy Assessors has taken up the issue with Greg Barker, the minister for energy and climate change.
A spokesman for IDEA said: “Once again, as happened with the previous Labour Government, the current Coalition Government is refusing to give energy assessors any voice in the decision-making process.”
IDEA also raised concerns about the independence of advice from the new breed of Home Energy Advisers, who will be employed by high street chains and utility companies, “lining up to take advantage of the Green Deal opportunities that will be available to them”.
The reply said: “… the Government will put in place a code of conduct for assessors that will require disclosure of any commercial affiliations or other potential conflicts of interest. Officials are working closely with industry experts and consumer groups to develop the specification for this.”
But the IDEA spokesman said: “We are not sure which industry experts and consumer groups they are working with, but it certainly does not include energy assessors.
“It appears that the Government is unwilling to hear our opinions and that again, those with vested interests are going to dictate to others.
“There appears to be no consideration to the numbers of HEAs required geographically or otherwise.
“For example, up and down the country local authorities have a limit to the amount of licences they give to taxi drivers. IDEA has campaigned for years that there must be a similar limit on accreditation of energy assessors to ensure that the market does not become saturated with new entrants who will have little or no hope of earning a living from their new qualification.
“Without implementing such measures it will simply remain an open-ended policy that will benefit only training providers and accreditation schemes.
“IDEA strongly urges the Coalition Government to learn from the mistakes made by the previous Government and not to simply repeat them.”
Comments
The point I made about RdSAP being the only way forward with existing dwellings is primarily focused on the market wants. The public generally don't care about the ratings and even more on taking out good condition pre 2002 windows and even less on solar panels etc which as everyone knows you won't get your money back if your only having an EPC for selling a property. I doubt you'l get your money back for renting either as the cost at this time is, well rediculous!
Also where the system falls down is whatever the rating is, you don't fail the assessment and therefore don't need to do anything. A tatty old property that needs refurbishment is wasted time doing an EPC as it will be upgraded but not the EPC. Ironic that it is perfectly legal to use an old EPC which will be inaccurate if improvments have been made.
Just like HIPs, EPC are not wanted by the market in general. If anything a HIP was a more importatnt document yet it was scapped leaving a less important document to continue to run.... carzy!
The Green Deal is a political stunt and nothing more.
As for post 2008 properties, I forsee a time when Full SAP will be abolished with the knock on effect for many a surveyor. Once someone realises that Building Regs make it compulsory fittings, an Eneregy Survey will no longer be necessary?
Mr Crompton makes reference to my "knocks" toward DEA's...after lodging now 3,500 EPC's personally, I have witnessed every concievable type of oik running around pretending they know what they are doing, and so feel qualified to make the comments I do. I have countless examples where the DEA should have been struck off, so pardon me if I tell the truth!
As with most things in life the paraeto is no different in the DEA arena, 20% professional, honest, knowledgeable and hard working people I would actively support any day of the week. The remaining 80% I would gladly see driven out to pasture.
Politicians are only concerned about votes during election times, after that they're in, they run riot doing what they like until we boot them out the next time we get a chance to vote.
Green, blue, red or yellow it makes no odds what colour the rosette today's breed of career Politician is only interested in self values.
Thank the lord the HIP pack has been suspended and what a shame it was used as the vehicle for the EPC in the first place as this is where most of the Energy Assessor's problems have stemmed from. Hip Pack Providers and Panels who saw more value in feeding greedy Estate Agents with anything up to £150 per HIP commission by robbing it off the EPC fee. There is no reason why Panels still survive other than a queue of DEA's prepared to say yes when one says no to £18 for an EPC and feeders like Countrywide who tease the panels with large bulk number EPC clearance.
The Home Inspector (level 4 NVQ) was originally the only operative preparaing HCR's as well as EPC's, when the HCR was derailed the level 3 NVQ was very quickly cobbled together and then along came every man and his dog convinced they would earn £80K per year.
Being a disenfranchised HI you will excuse me for being a wee bit annoyed with bleating DEA's.
Wooden Top is correct in that the average van driver can't do SAPs, but that didn't stop them doing RdSAP EPC's for Building Control instead of the correct OCEPC even though it was wrong. To say though that RdSAP is the only way forward for existing dwellings is not correct, I have used full SAP assessments on many existing dwellings in support of ground source heat pump surveys.
A slight adjustment to the protocol allowing invasive surveying of wall cavities etc would enable U value calcs to be prepared, rather than some pretty dumb guess as to the age of construction and then some inference table making it up for you.
Thermal bridging, thermal mass don't even come into the equation with RdSAP yet play a huge part in heat loss and heating/cooling demand, for my money it's SAP all the way. What about the flue effect with party walls?? or double glazing sold as low E argon filled only to be tested as plain glass air filled. I've found all manner of things on site that were represented as being something they were not.
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Is the double glazing pre or post 2002?...what a stupid question we all know why the question is asked so why are DEA's not testing the windows onsite rather than looking for a voluntary date code or guessing.
...anyway I'm bored now!
IDEA need to have a lobbyist, that is the only way they will get into the system.
Green politics is big business, the flavour of our current time. Most is twaddle but while it gets votes politicians will continue to embrace.
As for RdSAP, that is the only way forward with existing properties. SGHI forgot to mention that new builds and alterations since 2008 have to have a full SAP rating, so van man Domestic DEA is already out in the cold as he can't do them.
SGHI makes a reasoned and sensible point if you ignore some of the knocks to DEA's.
Many of IDEA 's members have followed the same career path and are now qualified to the higher levels of NDEA (3&4), DEC,SAP & increasingly AirConEA's.
Like yourself their current earnings are below that achieved in many other sectors with less requirement for formal qualifications.
The future energy sector does offer an opportunity for those dedicated to it and to themselves to continue their professional path.
What concerns IDEA is that the current administration, like previous ones, is not prepared to listen to those who actually work within this area.
They are however quite happy for those with a vested interest in the outcomes to decide the future of others.
With accreditation bodies already lining up to take advantage of the additional training requirements for those who are considering the HEA role.
"Having attended the HEA course it's laughable to think that a level 3 NVQ DEA is no more or less capable than a level 3 NVQ HEA. "
There is no control of the numbers of HEA's required, leaving it open for accreditation bodies to 'churn' out the numbers - the same situation as we have already seen with the DEA qualification.
Where are these HEA's to obtain their work if they wish to remain 'Independant'?
RICS is already proposing that all suppliers/installers for Green Deal funded upgrades are to be accreditted ( I wonder who they propose should provide that ?) so why not actually 'licence' the HEA's to work within detailed areas only?
Restrict the numbers that can operate within the same catchment area.
This sort of action would not be acceptable of course to the likes of the utility companies who will want to employ HEA's directly on a commission basis.
The Green Deal does not offer only domestic opportunities but also the same within the commercial marketplace - however the comercial sector is likely to be much more savvy.
This is why the target areas for utility companies and the High Street giants will be the domestic sector.
A qualification similar to the DEC requirement would dissuade many of those who see HEA as a money pit.
Energy Assessors need to have an input into the decision making process and that is why IDEA are treading the path they are on.
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I agree with the argument that Politicians ignore anyone who knows anything about the things they don't...this is called prior agenda.
Having attended the HEA course it's laughable to think that a level 3 NVQ DEA is no more or less capable than a level 3 NVQ HEA.
What's wrong with the whole thing is the methodology RdSAP for existing dwellings and the qualification level being set far too low.
Since 2007 building regulations part L has tightened up immensely as it marches on toward zero carbon for 2016. Solar thermal and PV, LZC technology is now inbuilt to most designs I see these days, complex thermal modeling calcs are required for most new builds requiring a higher standard of knowledge, training and ability.
If the minimum qualification was raised to an level 4 NVQ commensurate with the Level 4 commercial qualification with its 70% failure rate at exam level, the Energy Assessor pool would automatically shrink to workable levels of higher qualifieds. This is a far more appropriate way of culling over subscription than pleading for MOT type set fees, or maximum number restrictions.
My advice to the IDEA is stop flogging the same old dead horse's arse, you haven't gained any ground at all in the 3 years you've been around. Fight to raise a profession with a minimum entry level of an NVQ level 4/Pass degree and then maybe industry will recognise an emerging profession, rather than regarding DEA's as a rag, tag and bobtail army of lost souls.
The number of Ebayer's flogging off their portfolio's and swapping lists of exam questions/answers has nullified the validity of the so called DipDEA. What makes me really laugh is the number of those who use this after their names, in fact I visited a certain expo in 2008 and was floored by a couple of guys walking around the show wearing American drug enforcement agency clothing no doubt because it says "DEA" on it, I still cry with laughter when I remember how they thought they were the mutts nutts.
I have spent the past 3 years working hard through a never ending sea of exams to keep a professional distance from these types and I'm still not done with it yet. I have taken personal responsibilty for my own progression, career development and income, and not relied on anyone else to protect me or give me a leg up. I work 7 days a week till midnight most nights and earn less than Bus Driver in real terms but enjoy it no end.
I have Architect clients throughout the country who reply on me to provide a much valued consultancy to ensure their designs comply with building regs as it is all to complex for then now to do it themsleves.
What on earth makes a level 3 NVQ the cherished possession that so many DEA's think it is...beyond me!
The IDEA chewing gum's lost it's flavour!...the energy sector is an enormous almost vertical market sector if you think there are no opportunities left...look to yourselves as the reason.
You can show your concern by signing the petition at
http://www.petitiononline.co.uk/petition/energy-assessors-demand-representation-on-green-deal-forum/2724
This issue is fundemental to the future of ALL energy assessors.