Agents have expressed their outrage after discovering that their customers have received emails direct from Rightmove plugging services in competition with what many agents themselves offer.
Some 30,000 emails carrying adverts have been sent out to people who have registered on Rightmove.
One email advertised conveyancing from Countrywide – the UK’s biggest chain. One agent described the choice of Countrywide as 'rubbing salt in the wound'.
The Countrywide advertising email is from Rightmove Partners. It bears the Rightmove logo and says: ‘Buying or selling a property? Make sure that you have the right legal advice and instruct us now!’
The email allows people to get a personalised quote from Countrywide.
Another email from Rightmove Partners has been sent advertising removals services, and another has gone to prospective buyers plugging Gateway Surveyors.
It tells people that a mortgage valuation is not the same as a survey, and urges them to protect ‘your investment with a survey that’s on your side!’
It adds that the Gateway Surveyors product uses standards set out by the Royal Institute (sic) of Chartered Surveyors.
One agent said of the Gateway Surveyors advert: “How nice of Rightmove to be promulgating a service that sells itself by claiming their reports will help reduce the purchase price – Rightmove’s members’ clients WILL be pleased!”
Another agent said he was absolutely furious. Nick Salmon, managing director of Harrison Murray, said he felt many agents would not know that their clients were being targeted by Rightmove and predicted an outcry.
He said: “My view is that it is totally unacceptable that a company which we pay to feed should go into competition with us, and if this were to prove to be a regular commercial activity, then I think it would be the tipping point for a mass exodus from Rightmove – which I would be very happy to lead.”
Rightmove has always avoided carrying advertising on its site, but yesterday defended its Partners service.
A spokesman said: “Consumer feedback has shown that many home-movers visiting Rightmove would like help in finding, understanding and selecting products and services to help them move home. Rightmove member agents have also indicated that providing information and services to home-movers that would put them in a more proceedable position at the enquiry stage would be of benefit to them.
“Better prepared movers are more likely to transact faster. We’ve therefore started a project to explore how we can meet the needs of our consumers for services like conveyancing, surveys and removals, whilst supporting our members interests to get the market moving.
“We are aware that many agents have existing partnerships and business lines in place which provide these services and Rightmove is exploring how these services could be incorporated to be of commercial benefit to our member agents. Rightmove already offer services which can generate additional revenue, such as our Premium Listing and Featured Property products, both of which carry a public-facing retail price and are being successfully sold on to consumers by many of our member agents.
“As we’re still at an early research stage in the project, we used a one-off email campaign offering a range of relevant services to home-movers to gather data about levels of consumer interest.
“We’re closely monitoring feedback we receive about the trial from both our consumers and member agents and will be incorporating that in our future plans.”
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Comments
just let rightmove do all they want after all they are the best, they are in business and need the £££ like we all do, be honest if you as an agent saw a £ opportunity you would take it..good luck to RIGHTMOVE
If you lose business to CW PL due to a cold calling email you deserve to!
Perhaps if RM make so much from direct sales they will then need your stock to satisfy their new business model and they will give the RM advertising to you as agents!! Turn it on its head. Then again, unlikely!!
Jesus Bob Dobalina – were you really sat on EAT at 3 in the morning on a Sunday?!
Jonnie
Well in the midst of all the comments and x factor at the weekend I thought I'd find out for myself more about this as I do make a few quid out of associated business albeit more paranoid with the bribery act now in force.
Rightmove had nothing on it apart from ads from agents which surprised me given the amount of comment.
Anyway here is what I found as it surprised me. hoopla do a lot direct with users with a mortgage quote on every property details page saying 'get a mortgage quote' powered by 'beat that quote' and on the property advice tab they offer to get quotes for solicitors, surveyors, removals and everything else you might need when moving including utilities. This is powered by 'move me'
Findaproperty just had lots of advertising on it from mortgages, insurance to holidays and window cleaners.
Prime location more of the same but I had to register to use the site. I take it that this is to also send me advertising direct.
Anyhow given this I thought it was interesting that with all the anger to right move doing this everyone seems to not be aware that the rest already do it so I guess we don't like it but the fact it is already happening don't really care either.
Confused.com!
I will laugh my ar@e off when RM allow punters to advertise (precendent set with overseas property) - problem is boys and girls id that the market place is rightmove, not your shop window, etc etc. They control how it is.
Ace of Spades watches x factor !!!
My vision will never be the same again. Ever.
@Adam Smith
Might be, but it aint the publics.
@James Bedford
Yes, but you aint got none.
Henry Prior is correct.
When you list a vendors property on Rightmove do you give them the vendors email address ?
OMG what a load of whining wind bags alot of these comments are. At the end of the day an advertiser be they Countrywide or many of the other suppliers of service that I get emails from RM DPG and the rest pays to for their advert. You want to put your name up there in lights ask RM for a quote.
I had to chuckle about the comment about CPL by Despondent that they survive on a no sell no fee .... They do that because the vast majority of their cases go through hence they get paid.
Yes it s a hard market, yes we have to work harder but the majority of agents I know love the job so please please stop winging a get back to what we are meant to be doing
PS hope you all have a nice weekend and dont stand on the edge of any high bridges!!!!
Ace Of Spades - I have no problem with Dominos and many other companies who actually do what they promise!. I refer to Countrywide Property Lawyers who are so sure that sales will fall through that they survive on the "No sale, No fee" principle?
I'm not quite getting why there's so much anger at this? Loads of companies (including Findaproperty, Prime & Zoopla) email their contact databases with partner offers.
Is it a countrywide thing? They're in bed with Zoopla so I hardly think that RM are going to hop in for a little Ménage à trois! (come on people get a grip).
I've been asking my RM rep for years 'when can I start emailing your database' and they've always pushed back on it - hopefully this is a long overdue, and WELCOME! step in the right direction.
Rightmove love to dictate terms and invariably do not practice what they preach.Understandably member Agents are upset and should act accordingly,Rightmove will do exactly what they want to do,dont expect them to pay any heed to their members!!!!!
Despondet - "For Rightmove to be promoting companies that offer, at best, a shoddy service which will if taken up, cause no end of delays and loss of revenue for estate agents is like cutting the throats of those who feed them! It feels like a kick in the teeth to us"
That's YOUR opinion mate, which I'd disagree with. Are you saying we should not have adverts for Domino's Pizza during X Factor (A very welcomed/loved brand) because I personally think they are shoddy?
We live in a free country. Advertisers can choose whichever avenues they feel suitable, that they can afford. Rightmove are entitled to do this.
Rose - many will disagree I am sure, but your sensible attitude with your feet firmly on the ground is a refreshing.
@Despondent - I trust lots of publications - but it doesnt mean I am going to buy that which they advertise.
Partricia you can't really be serious?
Why would RM;
Choose to not receive yearly subscription fee's from us
Employ a huge national sales force to deal with THE GENERAL PUBLIC at more expense when they have estate agents to do that for them
Choose to be renumerated by individuals only when they sell their property in the worst selling property market we have seen for years
Give up on a hugely successful business model currently making a profit in this market!!!
I think you have hit the wine early, even for a Friday :)
Rose - The public trust Rightmove, without question, that is where the problem lies. For Rightmove to be promoting companies that offer, at best, a shoddy service which will if taken up, cause no end of delays and loss of revenue for estate agents is like cutting the throats of those who feed them! It feels like a kick in the teeth to us. BTW are you an estate agent?
Why is their such an outrage regarding this non story?
Why can't a company who has generated it's own database of consumers (people who log on to RM to search for property, and choose to register for further property related messages) send them these property related messages?
Another point is; it's not actually RM messages that are going out, it's services offered by estate agents and industry companies who I presume are paying to access this database. I am calling them right now to see how I REAP THE BENEFITS AND JOIN THE PARTY!!!!
I warned of this a long time ago, but unlike many agents who post on here complaining about RM, we actually stopped advertising with them.
We're still going strong, we didnt collapse. Have no doubt - Rightmove will dump you before you dump them - by which time they will then be the biggest online agency - all beautifully endorsed and paid for by estate agents! Genius.
@John G
let me be the first to warn you. I haven't been keeping count - but you aren't in the first 1000 to warn me. I have heard this warned for over 10 years.
The same people who warned when iSold with Tesco entered the market - that went well.
Scaremongering doesn't change the issues regarding internet estate agents. They dont work.
Take on line sales - Tesco and M&S are immense in this field - but are still opening more stores. Why? Because some products will always require human interaction.
EG: A 64GM laptop is the same wherever you but it - so price is key.
A 8 oz steak ordered online may not be the one you would have chosen from the shelf.
Likewise, buyers want service. Vendors may think they can save a few quid using an online agent - but ultimately buyers dont care as that service costs them nothing.
No doubt we have changed the way we market but Rightmove taking over the world is not going to happen. They are simply a business and a good one at that.
It will not be long before RIGHTMOVE are offering financial advice, and eventually break into the propertyy market themselves.
Any agent reading my post will understand, the money we pay them everymonth, which goes up every single year no matter what the market is doing. This company will eventually tie up with TESCO possibly, and offer "The Ultimate Service".
Lest we not forget, COUNTRYWIDE owns 35% of RIGHTMOVE with TESCO FINANCIAL owning 10%. There is trouble ahead - and let me be the first to warn you.
@Despondent - well, oddly enough, their latest 'product' is to generate valuations - not more buyers.
Simply, when a buyer living in Clapham registers with agents in say, Cheshire, it will give them an option to request a local agent in Clapham to offer a valuation of their property and then furnish that agent with some useful information. There is much more to it than that of course but I was convinced that's its worth a try.
I was impressed with the presentation. I felt it was something a bit different and that they have clearly thought about what agents need (and how to generate more revenue) - but everyone will have their own view.
RM is a brilliant concept.
Who set up RM in the first place?
Corporate Estate Agents!
In the long term - Why?
Guess!
What did the Independents do?
Pay them and tell their clients to go to RM! (they still do)
What is the answer?
I don't know!
(apart from my last post)
@puzzled ofTW
If I remember right you are not an agent so I think have missed the point.
RM have spent millions building a brand people trust.
And they EXPECT to trust it way more than they EXPECT to rust the estate agent they call after they have seen the advert and picked up the phone.
The reason us estate agents are ranting is because we have all signed up without reading our terms and conditions which state quite clearly that they are legitimately allowed to do it.
But RM was my business, right now, my plans would definitely be to launch a game changer, whilst all my competition has no advertising budget to do anything about it.
Every crisis brings opportunity, and what an opportunity.
"Come on Chris, think differently, be bold and take control of change and lets stop rightmove shafting us."
A purchasing collective eh? A few weeks ago there was talk of a revolt against the masters and someone even set up a web site for those who were in a revolting frame of mind to join together.
A few days later it was reported that no interest was shown.
secret agent
I am thinking differently.
The one thing I am not doing is sitting back and waiting for it.
But I am hardly likely to tell you guys what I am up to because you might nick my ideas.
I am kidding a bit with that but in practical terms you can see what the internet has done to holiday companies, classified advertising and the high street.
Estate Agents need to stop deluding themselves.
You will not survive in your current format.
The world around you is changing - very, very fast.
Saying "Let's all go to Zoopla, to kill off RM and maintain the status quo" is doomed to absolute failure and is not a solution.
The only solution is to offer something that an online superbrand cannot.
And before you say "Aah but......" think how many butchers are there in the average high street now?
When I was a kid (in London) there were 4 within walking distance of my house.
Now there is 1.
Same will apply to us estate agents.
They need content.
You provide it.
They charge you for providing it to them.
Without your content they would not exist.
Without them you have a hundred other ways of showing your content to people.
It's an interesting phenomenon.
@ EW Bushells - We are discussing these news stories in our office. So Rightmove may have some good new ideas but with so few buyers (in our area anyway) where do they think the extra revenue is coming from?
Chris Clark - resistance is futile.
You remind me of the shoe salesman who returned from an island community and said to his boss, "It was a wasted trip, they don't even wear shoes." Guess how well the next guy did?
Don't we want to create change and pioneer a new era of agents working together to control their suppliers? That is the secret of Tesco's success that they have become big enough (rightly or wrongly) to control what they pay their suppliers. As a collective we could do the same.
In truth rightmove's costs go down each year, because they've bought their servers, they just increase their profits by hiking the prices.
Henry Ford did something different, he said "If I'd asked the public they would have asked for a faster horse".
Come on Chris, think differently, be bold and take control of change and lets stop rightmove shafting us.
Do you want to be self-employed or do you want to work for rightmove?
@EW Bushells
So now you are going to pay them even more to first build up your business (a bit) and then destroy it...
Seems like a plan!
Just had my Rightmove meeting -
Well, prices are going up, but there are some very interesting new products which mitigate the cost. In fairness, I was quite impressed and the extra cost was not as much as I expected.
(and no, this post has not been sponsored by Rightmove nor I am being held hostage)
BTW
Deserting RM now will only hasten their plans.
If half of you left tomorrow, they would only be upsetting the other half/ losing their revenue stream by switching to direct marketing.
Resistance is futile.
It was inevitable that rightmove would abuse its market leadership position eventually.
I'd be absolutely delighted if Nick Salmon would lead us agents to form a consortium to buy our portal services collectively.
Imagine our buying power if we all, or over 70% of us, were to put our portal buying out to tender for an annual or two year contract.
We could do the same with our telecoms and utilities. We are not allowed to form a cartel for fixing fee levels etc,but we are allowed to form a purchasing group to bring down our costs and as the market is a quarter of its previous size it must be a no brainer to reduce our runnign costs and increase our profits.
It is time to trun the tables on rightmove - without our content, they will get zero traffic - let's put up some some red traffic lights to stop them ripping us off and biting the hand that feeds them.
Anyone else want to encourage Nick to start a campaign?
Rightmove is history. Zoopla is now most Estate Agents preferred property portal judging by promotional strips in Estate Agents windows. Zoopla offers value with integrity. Out with the old. In with the best!
use CPL if you want a certain fall through!!
use CPL if you want a certain fall through!!
The "problem" is that Rightmove has made the agents job ridiculously easy. Take a few photos, upload them to an audience of millions and wait for the phone to ring. That's why we all use them, will never leave and they can screw us into the ground. They know that most of us wouldn't be able to function without them. As individuals we need them more than they need us.
This isn't the worst of it, the recent email they sent to all of our potential buyers and sellers was an html flyer for a company called Reallymoving.com which was promoting the use of a private selling site and also a internet agent site a competitor business. See for yourself. The link is http://www.reallymoving.com/content/28/Buy-a-property.aspx
Come on guys...get some balance.
You decide to put your stock on Rightmove at your own free will. You make that choice. If you don't like RM then it's your own problem for continuing with them.
So, you are encouraging buyers and sellers to look at their site.
In terms of offering a good service and for grade 1 basics of commecial business sense, all visitors are invited to register with Rightmove. They'll even tick a little box (or choose not to) when they register to receive info about RM's products and services (their own and 3rd party).
Within it's terms of business service, this possibility has existed for a long time. All sorts of companies approach buyers and sellers with products that agencies offer. It is up to you to demonstrate that your offerings deliver better value for money and are generally a better option. If you can't do that, should you be selling it in the first place?
It's common practice to see the "call us urgently" notes dropped through vendors doors and a lot of agents will happily tout by knocking on other vendor's doors - Have some god damn consistency in your arguments.
PW - It's great to see someone who dislikes Rightmove, but is bold enough and brave enough to do something about it. I am a fan of RM myself, but the moaners could learn a thing or two from you.
thank you Mr. salmon, together we are rightmoves life blood they are NOTHING without us ,the public only go there because that’s were we are ,they will follow us were ever we go ,but we do need coordination and a little self belief to do it .
Already there.
Have been for months, but the figures speak for themselves.
Alexa rankings (page visits) are:
Rightmove - 975th Globally, 28th UK
Zoopla - 3,817, 122
Findaproperty - 3,835, 139
Primelocation - 7,078, 277
Globrix - 24,451, 799
TDPG are dropping off the face of the planet.
Zoopla has some amazing vendor tools.
RM kicks everyone's arse.
There isn't one "dodgy" website above RM (a few cr*p ones, but no dodgy ones).
More people in the UK visit several specific hardcore porn & gambling sites than Zoopla.
And as for FAP & PrimeLo, well...
@Eric
A meeting you say? Do they want some more money or something?
Strangely, by some quirk of fate - I am meeting with my Rightmove account manager in 5 mins..... watch this space.
@ Henry Pryor: Get a new barber.
Is anyone really surprised that the nest of vipers has done this?
There is a malicious greed and cynicism at the heart of Rightmove. It's unique amongst all the thousands of suppliers I have ever dealt with.
Time for all us agents to head over to Zoopla instead of RM methinks -
18 quality leads per minute being delivered,
51% of their visiters have not visited RM,
2 awards just won confirming their business model and growth ("one to watch"!).
Who's joining me, let's go......
Oh come on guys, there is loads of advertising on here for digital property group, do you think they would run the same story if it was Zoopla advertising like this.
Well done rightmove, keep up the good work and the good leads. Thank you.
Oh my God, they advertise windows in here as well, how bad is that.
I saw an advert in a paper for an estate agent,
I am sure countrywide paid for this, if you want such advertising why not get them to do it for you.
Stop whinging you lot and complaining that others have great ideas, you missed the boat, but doesn't mean you can't catch the next one.
I do not really like saying this but, "I told you so"
For years it has been obvious that RM are building a comprehensive BUSINESS. They now have estate & letting agents by the "hows your fathers" and will do whatever they like to extend their reach and profits.
So, live with it or get out onto another site or set up another viable site..
The maths is simple and the outcome is inevitable.
From the RICS an average branch has 68.9 properties on the market (a couple of days ago).
That means that of your £500-£600 subscription (yes I know prices vary but I needed a figure so bear with me).
RM earn £8.69 per property per month or just over £26 for a 3 month contract.
Imagine if they could do the EPC directly, the conveyancing, the mortgage and the sale.
They would then earn a HUGE amount more per vendor.
Yes, their cost will go up, but not by that much.
But they will put themselves (Countrywide) out of business I hear you say.
No, it will evolve. And it is better to be in control of that evolution that have someone force it on you.
Think Sony Walkman and Apple iPod.
Spicerhaart & Tesco.
Rightmove & Sainsburys?
It will happen, make no mistake.
10 years from now there will 2-3 agents per high street and 2-3 major online players.
Rightmove is the first point of contact for most buyers.
Most buyers are also sellers.
This is going to be VERY painful for most of us.
And yes, RM will deny that they would ever let down their agents but PLCs lie, we all know that.
You know, whatever you think, it really doesn't help to use personal abuse of another poster, who is quite entitled to his opinion. Hands up all those agent who do not look to take referal fees from 'partner' companies?
Really doesn't do some of you agents any favours!
For the benefit of our profession, perhaps everyone should be force to post under their real name?
If you don't like what RM are doing you can always vote with your feet. And for those with half a brain is in one quite sensible post on here.... ;-)
"Like" it Wardy, see below.
I decided as a firm to not sign up with Right Move for many reasons. Main reason was cost and second main reason was due to this very situation. I dont trust them and they certainly do not have Estate Agents best interest at heart. I have used many other methods of advertising of which has provided my firm with a good supply of business along with enough sales to still have a very profitable business in the current climate. I say get rid of RM and start going back to basics. We survived without them and we will certainly survive without using them! STOP USING RIGHT MOVE!
Nonsense Henry.
A vendor on the market that happens to have their property marketed on rightmove is a client of that agent that has paid rightmove to do so. Rightmove's only clients are the agents.
In the same way that we are not clients of EAT. The advertisers on the website are 'the clients'.
Jeeze Henry, You of all people should know what a 'client' is.
I think people/Henry are missing the fact that Estate Agents pay rightmove THOUSANDS of pounds per year – THE AGENTS are rightmove’s customers and the common feeling is that rightmove are massively P*****G off THEIR paying customers by this sort of action which could REDUCE THEIR CUSTOMERS income, at the same time as INCREASING the charges to THEIR customers.
Henry stick to copying and pasting articles on twitter to keep yourself proclaimed as a “Property Expert” – you obviously have no grasp on how an Estate Agency is run, you will next be saying that purchasers are Estate Agents Clients!
You really didn't see this coming?!...and it's only the thin end of the wedge.
You can do something about it.
Ditch The Beast and spend the time & money doing your own thing in your own locality.
It's much more fun.
"Agents have expressed their outrage after discovering that their customers have received emails direct from Rightmove" 'Their' customers...?
I can't imagine how Rightmove could get your clients/customer details so these must be people registered with the web site who are looking for property. That being the case they are not 'your customers', they are Rightmoves and you allowed this to happen when you listed your property with them.
People who read glossy Country Life property adverts are Country Life readers. People who watch the adverts on ITv are ITv viewers and if you're reading this then your soul already belongs to Rosalind! Get over it!
Please ignore this tw*t. He obviously has absolutely no experience running an estate agency and therefore has no idea what he is talking about.
Me thinks he's pissed off cos he can't sell any of his overpriced pieces of wood and the estate agent next door makes 10 times more than what he does.
Is anybody surprised - this is just the first instance of this, not the last..........
@Bob - I agree with you! I would have perhaps said it in a nicer way ;0) The current model is not working for anyone but agents and consumers will demand something different, but they need the help of the recession to make it happen!
Rightmove is a PLC. It has a duty to shareholders. It must, therefore, keep increasing its profits.
The only way to do that witha finite and, currently, shrinking customer base (us agents), is to a) squeeze more money from the customer base and/ or b) look to alternative revenue streams. No one should be surprised by this.
Rightmove has worked hard to dominate the market and agents have allowed it to happen. It now uses that dominance, in my view, in a very highhanded arrogant way.
It's up to agents what to do; I believe that social media is one, very effective, way to take back some control but if Nick, whom I greatly admire, is looking to set up some kind of think tank on this; count me in.
@ Bob Dobalina
How dare you comment when you charge ridiculous charges for inferior furniture design!!
@crumpet - furniture designer
.
RM should not be doing this, you can have a box that a client can tick if they want further information from RM but not to harvest emails like this. Agents like the one above in the article talk about " I will be first to lead the exodus" but they are too scared to try anything else when there are LOTS and LOTS of high traffic property portals such as Zoopla, Globix and LocalPropertyIndex. Most of these will let you try something for 3 months....if it doesn't work stay with RM and if it does work then you save yourself hundreds if not thousands of pounds.....
@ Bob Dobalina ......would be very interested to learn what your profession is??
i bet this story gets a ton of whinging from agents all upset because RM are trying offer a service. All you lot do with other services is add a fat comm on top of the service provided whilst adding no value whatsoever to said service.
serves you right me thinks.
Another upsetting move by RM following yet another price increase for most of us, a classic case of dont keep all your eggs in one basket syndrome. Keeb doing what you are good at dont become a jack of all trades and master of none, slippery slide