Falling house prices would boost prospects for new buyers

It seems as if the FTB's have gone to ground.

I don't think the problem is just saving up a deposit. The First Time Buyers I see wandering into the office on a saturday with a loved up notion of moving in together, are always very well turned out with really super designer outfits. Nice hair and makeup too. Their polished GTI or Sport this that and the other with gleaming Alloys puts my old metro to shame. The viewings always go well and price doesn't seem to be the real issue it is their combined average unsecured debt of £78,000 that they need to pay off first is the problem.
Car lease, credit card debt, store card debt, overdraft. Loans 1, 2 and 3.
I can't and won't condemn them, the vast majority of the population think that personal debt is an acceptable consequence of having realy nice stuff.
I was bought up not to borrow, I don't have a credit rating but don't owe anyone a single penny! I have a crappy car, a house for me and Mrs Daws and one each for my two children, those are rented out till they are old enough to give me back the money I invested for them. PS anyone who thinks I am loaded, I am not. My average earning for the past 26 years has been under £4/hour. (Minimum wage doesn't apply to the self employed) the reason I have money is because I have also averaged 60 hours a week for 26 years. The money I get doesn't get wasted on Drink, Jeans, Shoes and Hair gel, yacking or texting drivel from a mobile phone.
I did chuckle that the House price crash site carries an advert for the Lottery! A tax on those daft enough not to understand the odds of them winning! I am about £25,000 better off by not doing the lottery in the 16 years it has been running.

• 13 November 2010 11:35 AM

Meachy me old Mucker! How the devil are you.

Been laying low since Mark Thomas had a bit of a pop I fancy.

Reckon a full and open disclosure of MPs porfolios would make for interesting reading.

Whats this Peebee? being nice? whatever next? I had a piano once, that changed its tune everytime it rained

• 12 November 2010 13:09 PM

Not so clever, I'll take your bet and a few more quid off you.

Stop trawling through the internet for someone to despise.

Neither Peebee or Jonnie are ex larbour MP's so it is unlikely that they have large portfolios paid for with imaginative HOC Expenses.

• 12 November 2010 12:47 PM

Dear Not So Clever

Nope – not me, im surprised you thought it was just based on the style of writing – I thought it was a bit aggressive in its tone which isn’t something I suffer from

Mind you FTB and FTB too have gone all quiet………………….

Jonnie

• 12 November 2010 12:37 PM

Not so clever: Don't look at me, pal - if I have anything to say it goes under one name and one name only. Also, why would I state in one post that I had not insulted anyone nor queried their capabilities, then go on to do exactly that?

I believe that I can also speak for Jonnie in this respect - the post was clearly not his style.

Look elsewhere, I am afraid. Is it so much of a surprise to you that there are more than two people who do not pander to the thoughts and wishes of the HPC brigade? I am also surprised - that there have only been four people so far that have had the obvious (in your mind...) cheek and impudence to dare to respond to these people.

Which one of the two are YOU, by the way - "FTB" ot "FTB too"? ;0)

• 12 November 2010 11:29 AM

And who wants a bet that 'Considerably Richer than Yao' is actually Jonnie or PeeBee!??

• 12 November 2010 10:41 AM

Oi FTB!
I don't suppose you have been saving up for the past 10 years have you?

I suspect you are just a bit thick and not very good at sums.

The average house price is £160,000 and for a fair old while now the monthly interest has been about £400 per month, the average rent is about £600/month. It was cheaper to buy than rent! What have you been doing for the past decade? Living at home sponging off your parents or have you been renting a place of your own? Whetever your excuse you have only got yourself to blame. Mr Blair and Mr Brown have been buying your vote for the past umpteen years with cheap credit and ultra low interest rates. You should have followed their obvious instruction and bought up a few starter homes. Tony and Cherie were at it so I simply followed their lead. Even if prices do drop by 50% we won't be selling up because the higher the demand for rented accommodation the higher our yields. Peoplelike you will be left scraping between yourselves for the rubbish we don't want.
I bet you blame the ConLib government for your latest bout of oppression but in 4 years time remember that it was Blair Brown and co that made you a lifelong pauper!

• 12 November 2010 01:04 AM

FTB - You have still not answered (Jonnie's Q) WHY you didn't buy a house ten years ago, when you 'officially' started your search?

I would be pretty bitter as well, if I had missed such a brilliant opportunity, failed to act and just sat there like a lemon as prices went up...what have you been doing for the last 10 years? Or even 2000 - 2005 anyway - did you not notice a trend?

If you wanted prices to go down 10 years ago, you will NEVER buy a house in today's or future markets with that mentality I am afraid.

• 11 November 2010 17:40 PM

FTB too: Oh, well - here we go again...

Second post first. Okay, I accept your clearing up of the possibility that the two of you may have been one and the same person. To be honest, whether or not you were mattered not in the slightest - it would have just saved me addressing two people when one would suffice.

Now down to the nitty gritty of your first post. Oh dear - you are one of those unfortunates who pick out a collection of three to six words from a novel and claim a conspiracy theory, aren't you?

Read and digest. Born and brought up in a council house. Dragged myself through comprehensive education. Started work at 16 because I didn't see the need for a degree, despite being advised otherwise by potential employers. Worked 7 days a week, 12-17 hours a day for most og the next 30+ years. Have a mortgage, overdraft, and a lovely family.

"A cut above?" Absolutely, if you are talking about loving my life. I wouldn't change one second of it - and there's been a lot of sh!t in there believe me - but it makes you what you are so live with it I say.

Now then - watch the next sentence as I will say this only once:- I AM NO BETTER THAN ANY OTHER LIVING INDIVIDUAL. I am one of the crowd. You wouldn't know me if you met me. For all you know we could be best friends! I am, however, different to you - both in the way I think, and the way I conduct myself on a public site such as this. For that, I am thankful. I have not insulted you or anyone else; I have not questioned your capabilities nor do I intend to. If you have a complex then don't draw people's attention to it or they will play on any perceived weakness. If you read what I said once again, with a reasonable head on, you will see that there was no superiority inferred. If someone wants to try to be superior to me, for whatever reason, then I will simply point out the error of their ways. They are no more superior to me as I am superior to them.

I hope this clarifies my stance, as I cannot break it down into any more basic terms. And NO, I am not being "a cut above" there, either!

Now - do you want to draw a line under this - or is the bell about to ring for Round 3?

• 11 November 2010 17:09 PM

Dear FTB too,

My apologies, I responded to FTB as they had requested such a thing, I thought you were happy to agree – Peebee, go gentle on him / her as it’s the other one that’s asked for a response, FTB too is more of a voyeur I think.

Anyway – ill respond to you as well if you want on the points you raised, right, starting with the couldn’t agree more bit – good for you and thank god for freedom of speech, im glad you’ve found a platform to exercise your right.

Then we’ve got the Slime thing – not a bad use of the word to express your feelings, you could have done a bit better but you’re as out of date as gobbing off about hating Maggie Thatcher – this isn’t the 80’s and with the estate agency industry having a diverse range of ages, ethnic groups, religions, sex (and orientation) I cant help but feeling you think we are all sharp suited white 20 something men still wearing white socks and drive XR3’s (god I miss mine) but the worlds moved on, walk into any estate agency and you will see that ‘Slime’ is a lazy term to be abusive with – you must be able to do better.

Next up, ‘Cut above the rest’ – erm odd one but this bundles in with the above – if you mean my negotiator here that is a single mother balancing a 6 day working week with her responsibilities or a pal of mine that is struggling to pay his mortgage since his wife was made redundant or possibly another estate agent I know who’s child is gravely ill and had to take a demotion to enable him to be relived of enough responsibility at work to attend numerous hospital visits then again you are a mis guided fool, do you really believe that the industry is made up of anything other than members of the working population – we don’t grow staff on special farms, so cut above is misguided on your part and seems more down to your own views of your position in life.

On the qualification thing – there is no rule on this – there are many graduates coming through the business, I know a guy who has a PHD and one that was a tyre fitter, there are ex airline crew, quite a few ex military, and so it goes on but the point is that many of us (including me) were normal comprehensive kids – you are I suppose right as I’d have preferred to have been a lawyer but then you’d prefer to have a job that pays you enough to buy a house – we cant have it all.

I do hope this covers all you points – finally id really like a Range Rover but I can’t afford one at the moment but I don’t hang around on web forums whingeing about it and slagging off car salesmen and the motor manufacturers for keeping prices out of my reach so ill keep grafting until I can – an attitude that has worked for me for 20 odd years and one that may help you, im not sure.

Good luck with buying a place – keep us posted.

Jonnie

• 11 November 2010 14:44 PM

Furthermore, I have no idea who the other poster is, just shared a common denominator in my posting name. Thank you.

• 11 November 2010 13:39 PM

"put most of them in their place"

Oh really, what because you are in a position to do so are you? A cut above...?

• 11 November 2010 13:38 PM

FTB too: Me - almighty... Heck no - far from it. Do I give a shizzle - yes. Do I believe that you and your "friend" are completely and utterly out of order - ABSOLUTELY! THAT and that alone is why I responded. I can't speak for Jonnie - wouldn't want to, as he manages perfectly well on his own and comes from a different angle. He is also one of those you insulted - so he has a right to respond.

Anyways - back to the point: Become adult(s) and apologise for your inappropriate and quite frankly infantile comments the pair of you - but I wouldn't be in the least surprised if you are one and the same person.

Funny how they always seem to arrive in pairs on here...

Back to you - seeing as you've raised your head over the parapet again. You state " I too would not approach a lot of the posters on here to help me buy my home when I do, (which I will) in the future." Interesting - as most on here post without giving part or all of their names, HOW THE HELL WILL YOU KNOW WHO'S WHO??

A "D'oh!" moment if I've ever seen one...

You mention that Agents think they are a cut above the rest. Some do, I will grant you - met them, put most of them in their place. But then so do some people in most if not all walks of life.

An Agent (or anyone for that matter...) who has not learned that it's what is beneath the wrapping that counts is an Agent who will never find true success. Likewise, a FTB who is not buying is not a FTB - so I would consider changing your current nom-de-plume if I were you and/or your mate...

No doubt you will ignore my call for apology and instead decide the game's not over yet. Whatever - I'm not even in gear yet...

• 11 November 2010 13:03 PM

Hahaha and it goes without any suprise that it's the almighty PeeBee and Jonnie who respond!!

• 11 November 2010 12:18 PM

First Time Buyer (and I suppose FTB too - wouldn't want you to feel left out...): Thank you for allowing me the privilege of responding to your post. I take it that it is me you refer to, as it was me who added the phrase " You know - the militants who believe that prices CAN and WILL drop by 300% if they shout it loud enough..." to my post. SO - here I go:

Firstly - a confession. I AM NOT AN ESTATE AGENT! Now I know that this kind of makes you look a prat, as you have ranted on about them because "they" think you're a militant - but in truth "they" have said nothing of the sort on here. You ASSUMED that I was an Agent so decided to play sticks and stones. Bad move, pal, as you now look a complete twerp. BUT, putting that little fact to one side, I will continue...

You claim to be a disenchanted wannabe FTB. Okay - for the sake of this post I will go along with that. You see - this is a platform for fantasy and speculation. You could be ANYONE: you could own umpteen houses that you now rent out to real wannabe FTBs who would dearly and genuinely love to be purchasing the roof over their heads for all we know - and want to fuel a crash in order to buy another umpteen at reduced prices in order to keep a few more FTBs out of their own homes. Because that is what it is about for many of those who frequent the forum you seem so fond of. Speculators; investors; hobby landlords - all with 'secret' agendas as to why they want cheaper house prices.

But going back to you, and your stated position. I get NO pleasure at all that you are in the position you claim to be in. I have sons who currently live in rented accommodation who I would dearly love to be in their own homes. Like you, they earn average wage, and have wives who also work, but ownership (where they would prefer to buy, at least...) is still out of their reach. I own a home that I could nowhere near afford to buy if I was in the market today. Therefore I have every reason - more reason than even you - to wish to see house prices come tumbling down. But you and your "movement" can not and will not change the world - houses will sell for what buyers will pay. For each person with your frame of mind, there are many who see things differently and they will keep the market moving.

Prices may well adjust in coming months or even years, but wages will also rise in the same period and therefore affordability will find its' own level once again - but I believe, also correctly, certainly NO-WHERE NEAR your carefully researched 50% reduction.

Hopefully one day you will find your foot on the ladder that you state currently eludes you. What is perverse, is that when you do, your current viewpoint will undergo a 180 degree shift, and you will then vigorously defend the value of the roof over your head - even if it is overinflated by the peaks of the unstoppable tides that make the housing market.

I would respectfully suggest that, as you have wrongfully insulted an awful lot of decent people due to your misconception of the fact that non-Agents have an opinion other than " Lets have a house price crash party", you retract your unwarranted insults and apologise to these people.

You say you are just a normal guy - prove it by admitting you were wrong!

• 11 November 2010 11:33 AM

Dear First Time Buyer,

God bless you – you really are a very troubled soul, and im sorry that you have had to suffer for 10 years not being able to buy a house.

It’s the 10 years bit that gets me though – that suggests that you are in your late 20’s or early 30’s? And raises two points (we’ll put aside the fact that you sound a bit befuddled by what caused house price inflation that’s quite common)

First off - 10 Years ago when you started looking prices were about ½ what they are now – why didn’t you just do it then?

Second - Have you been looking for something every one of the last 10 years? just a bit of inside advice from a man that knows but do be careful, if an agent has a buyer on his books for 10 weeks there has to be a question over how serious they are, 10 years as an applicant might be seen as a bit of a………………….cant think of the word but you see my point.

I do however appreciate that if you have been looking for 10 years you must be a chronic sufferer of ‘The deal I never did’ syndrome and this is something I would not want a fellow human being to live with as it’s a terrible place to be, you have my sympathy.

On your utter hatred for estate agents, I do agree with you, there are some shameful examples of them out there, you can normally spot them as they are in their late 20’s / early 30’s, under achievers who’s careers haven’t moved on, not good at articulating themselves, un educated with appalling grammar, live at home or in some hateful rented flat live on an average wage and don’t have a basic grip on economics and when it doesn’t go their way in life moan that its someone else’s fault, frankly I cant stand that type either so im with you.

Anyway, best wishes for the future and I do hope the next 10 years is better for you than the last 10, 20 years of your luck isn’t likely so chin up and go get that nice little bargain for your self

Kindest Regards

Jonnie

• 11 November 2010 11:10 AM

Couldnt agree more with first time buyer, I too would not approach a lot of the posters on here to help me buy my home when I do, (which I will) in the future.
Couldnt agree more 'they are slime' and think they are cut above the rest, hmmm how many of you got into estate agency because you had no qualifications for anything else!??

• 11 November 2010 09:12 AM

Hello Estate Agents.
I eran averaeg wage, and have been priced out of housinf for over a decade, through absolutely no fault of my own. Rather as a direct result of the last Labour Government inflating the biggest bubble in history.
I have found this site, as it is on the HPC website link. Certainly the most popular website in the UK for FTB'ers like myself.
Im a normal guy, who has wanted a house for years. I believe, correctly they are at least 50% overpriced. I come to that conclusion after much research.
I cam on here to tell you, that I detest your nasty little comments, and suggestions that people like myself, are militant delude ravers.
When we are in fact your future clients. WHEN houses become affordable once again, I will be going out of my way to peruse websites and try and buy direct from sellers/vendors, cuting out your parasitic profession altogether.I belive this is a movement that will gather pace amongst FTB'ers once houses becopme affordable once again.
Its not the HPC website that makes me feel this strongly about Estate Agents. Its the links to commnets like these, and what the Estate Agents say about normal hardworking people, who cannot afford their own houses, but are having their money stolen by the government to pay for other this toxic mortgage debt, in effect paying for other peoples houses. This is theft.
You people generally seem like you have the qualifications of box stackers, and the morality of politicians.
I for one dont want anything to do with you. Goodbye, you slime.
Feel free to respond

• 10 November 2010 21:28 PM

Chesterton Humberts try to encompass all of the info in their poll of polls but I can't see anything on their site which is more recent than July so perhaps they have stopped doing it as nobody seemed to realise it existed.

• 09 November 2010 13:02 PM

Give it time, there will be plenty of opportunities for diversification if the property market continues the present trend. A veg stall seems an inviting prospect!

• 09 November 2010 11:42 AM

ah but i bet they've sold HUNDREDS of spuds whilst you have sold none at all!

• 09 November 2010 11:40 AM

just rang her - apparantly she'd had a val from a firm related to a supermarket at 500k and she has put in a new internal door along with a new flat roof on the garage. I think I'll let the supermarket try and fail 1st and speak to her again in the new year. Its not worth a penny over 400k, I may sound arrogant but I've sold 4 houses on the street this year, the supermarket outfit have not sold one within a 10mile radius!!!

• 09 November 2010 10:43 AM

Thanks for the vote of confidence, ace of spades, to my questioning skills, I'm now going to take that confidence and call a vendor who wants me to sell her house for 500k, even though she only paid £415 for it in summer 2007 and ask her how the hell she thinks her house has bucked the downward trend, perhaps she has the answer to all our problems, I'll keep you posted

• 09 November 2010 09:42 AM

Well with all the figures being spewed out of lenders, surveyors and any one else that fancies making a comment it’s as good a view as any.

The thing that all this chaff underlines is that there needs to be a widely respected single recognised index that includes all transactions in all areas etc other wise it all serves little purpose except to get the HPC lot all in a tizzy.

Jonnie

• 08 November 2010 17:45 PM

Yorkshire and Grumpy - Those who ask a question are an idiot for one minute. Those that don't, are an idiot forever!

• 08 November 2010 16:43 PM

many thanks Pee Bee. Yep a load of old sH8te is being talked about a HPC, mainly because we had it in 2008, and now its taking its time to get repaired.

• 08 November 2010 16:42 PM

the yorkshire agent (and Mr Grumpy too...): I'm from even farther 'oop north' than you, matey! HPC = HousePriceCrash. You know - the militants who believe that prices CAN and WILL drop by 300% if they shout it loud enough... ;0)

• 08 November 2010 16:33 PM

i dont know what an hpc is either!

• 08 November 2010 16:23 PM

Pee Bee, forgive me, I'm from up north so may have intellectual short-comings, please could you enlighten me as to what aHPC is?

• 08 November 2010 16:02 PM

Hi Ray. Thanks for the backing!

I would genuinely be interested in you expanding the "mainly" bit of your comment. Do you feel I am incorrect in some aspect; or is my summing up missing something that you would be good enough to add to bolster the point?

You are obviously more than aware that the only stories that get additional column inches by way of 100 responses are those which are easy targets for the HPC brigade. I sometimes fear that I am too far removed from the coalface to respond effectively, so always keen to hear the opinions of others who continue to fight the good fight. ;0)

• 08 November 2010 14:27 PM

Amazing!
It is now 2 p.m. and only one comment.
Is it because everyone is getting totally fed up with this constant feed of no-brainer micro statistics from various pundits which seem to change from day to day?
Give it a rest.

PeeBee is mainly right.

• 08 November 2010 14:04 PM

Okay - so I'm gonna do the statistics puzzle again. Sorry.

The story states "...a slight increase from last quarter...". Not exactly. A rise from 22.2% to 25.5% is actually an increase of 14.5% of that particular sector - I would hardly call that a "slight" rise!

WHY is the report out today, when the figures were collated two or three weeks ago? It's not exactly rocket science to put them together - surely a computer would churn out the report in seconds of the last survey being completed?

Oh - and then there's the title. I know it's probablt not RM's title - but have a think about it. "Falling house prices would boost prospects for new buyers" Was this written with the sole intention of getting the HPC crowd back onto the site, I ask? Like we need another 'handbags at the ready' confrontation with them... Falling prices will do one of thwo things. It will make EVERYONE sit on the fence waiting to see how far they will fall (why would FTB's possibly want to buy in a FALLING market? They want to wait until the fall stops, surely...?) Alternately, it will bring the BTLetters; the hobby investors, and the BeenyBabies back out of the woodwork to snaffle up the properties from those poor FTBs who DO want to buy and have the financial wherewithal. You know the ones - the REAL bolshie HPCers who claim they are speaking for the silent majority... ;0)

• 08 November 2010 09:46 AM