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It’s time to face the music and address the house price problem

There is an urgent need for estate agents to add new tools to their toolkit, in the present market conditions.

Markets work depending on prices. The inescapable reason why the housing market is not and has not been trading at adequate levels of completed transactions is because the prices currently being quoted are too high.

Why are estate agents, together with sellers, failing to recognise this fact?

It is because some agents exaggerate prices just to get the sales instruction, rather than basing them on the true value of the property. Many still openly admit they are forced to have to do this, because agents in competition do it.

What’s particularly curious is that in his online blog surgery on March 9, housing minister Grant Shapps wrote in answer to questions about excessive house prices: “It’s impossible to know precisely what constitutes the right house price.”

With the greatest possible respect to Mr Shapps, if that were true, then why do estate agents traditionally offer ‘free’ valuations to anyone thinking of selling? Why does the RICS have qualified ‘valuers’ who value houses for mortgage purposes? And, how could valuers be sued in the courts, thereby having to pay damages in the tort of negligence, after wrongly stating a house price, if there was no way of knowing precisely what constitutes the right house price?

I’m afraid that this type of statement does not appear to augur well for gaining confidence in ministers’ detailed knowledge about such affairs.

It almost seems as if estate agents simply do not care that over-pricing is a major contributing factor to the 40% of sellers whose houses will fail to sell at all this year.

Estate agents just seem to want to keep adding houses to their respective shop windows, working in competition with each other to see who can best survive the downturn.  

The result is a yawning gap between asking prices and completed sale prices, which is now said to be approaching £60,000 per property, on average (Henry Pryor’s figures).

The need to correct this is more pressing that ever, and without definite and urgent correction, this will lead to a subdued housing market, possibly for several years.  

But it does not have to be that way.

How so?

Most agents accept that there is a ‘glass ceiling’ for the price of any house (or residential property), at any one time. It is the maximum valuation that the mortgage lender’s surveyor places on the property.

If the agents try and sell it for more than this, they are pretty well limited to cash buyers only. Therefore, asking substantially more than this, in a falling market, is particularly counter-productive.

The difficulty in knowing this, comes because the lender’s surveyor will not have inspected the property until after it has been sold!

The only way to overcome this is for estate agents themselves to be able to estimate what that figure will be, at the time the property is taken on, when the asking price range is being decided in discussions with the vendor.

I have an analogy to help explain the issue more clearly and bring the need for change in the way houses are currently valued by estate agents, into stark contrast:

In real life: In the analogy
Estate agents: are the conductor(s)
Orchestras: are the groups of sellers
Audiences: are the groups of buyers
The music: is house price levels
The market: is itself.

Estate agents are like orchestral conductors. The movement of their hands and the expressions on their faces affect, profoundly, the sound made by individual instrumentalists in the orchestra (representing groups of sellers).

The buyers are the audience(s). They can see everything which the conductor(s) do as well as hear the resulting sounds from all the orchestras!

One can appreciate, in this analogy, that it’s no good the conductor simply deciding to ‘wave-in’ for more trumpeters which an audience then hear playing quite out of sequence with the rest of the music, only for the conductor to then shake his hands, indicating for them to stop, after realising his mistake. The audience (the buyers) will see and hear both what the conductor has done and the resultant sound of the orchestra.

It is time estate agents took a similar amount of responsibility for their role in what ‘tune’ the market plays, as if they were more like orchestral conductors.

This means if, for example, they encourage house prices to increase in a certain area of the country, they cannot then pretend the resultant ‘music’ is not in their control, or that they are not in any way responsible for its creation.

Estate agents, like orchestral conductors, need to accept ‘responsibility’ for the events taking place in the market place – and yes, that should include Rightmove by the way, as they are actually agents of the estate agents themselves. Neither are just bystanders.

Have estate agents ever wanted the market to produce a gentler, and more stable set of prices? Probably not, but if they ever did want that, they, like orchestral conductors, would have to be the ones to take the responsibility for making this happen.

Simply blaming sellers for dreaming up the high prices is clearly unacceptable. That is like the conductor blaming the orchestra for the resultant music, and pretending that his wild, but lively, gesticulations were nothing to do with the music being heard.

To be specific, there is a big difference between current asking prices and completed sale prices and it is not just on account of the time interval between offers being received and Land Registry figures being published – as some commentators have suggested.

To regain the respect of the buyers in this market, something new needs to be done by estate agents, who are as important to the housing market as a conductor is to an orchestra.

They need to figure out quite what they should do – as a corporate group, however – and then bring the necessary changes forward immediately, hopefully before the whole thing gets out of hand, once again.

The best thing for them to do is to learn how to value houses just as a surveyor would. It is reasonably simple to do and would give agents a pretty good fix on what price will materialise, when the mortgage valuer actually does come round to value the house that they have just sold subject to contract. Asking prices should bear these factors in mind, if they are to prove to be meaningful price guides.

If agents can ensure that there are no surprises when the mortgage valuer has been, the deal will be far more likely to go through, even in a falling market.

Providing that extra service is surely worth the effort, for those estate agents genuinely wishing to gain an edge on their competitors.

In essence, houses always have to be ‘affordable’: otherwise no one would be able to buy them or live in them.

Surveyor Peter Hendry has worked in a wide range of different jobs in the housing sector (including estate agency) since qualifying in the seventies

Comments

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    "Since there are over 500 comments here (not all helpful either), I've decided to move the article to a blog which can be more carefully moderated."

    LOL! You mean CENSORED! Cut out the comments of ANYONE who dares to challenge your bitter, twisted views of the housing market, more like it...

    Your 'cunning plan' has failed however, Baldrick. Not a single comment. Wonder how many you had to 'moderate' out, though...?

    ANYWAY... thought this was as good a place as any to continue my outing of your skewed agenda. I followed a link from your Tw@tter page to that of a 'Which?' article titled "Are estate agents deliberately overvaluing properties?" And lo and behold - who should be posting their MDT on 6 July but your goodself - and I quote:

    "There is indeed a substantial discrepancy between asking prices and eventual sold prices.
    In my experience the amount is excessive.
    This causes market stagnation, especially in a downturn.

    We wanted to move last year and found a house we wanted.
    The agent had successively reduced the price over several months, having failed to sell it but what they were asking when we viewed was still a lot too high.
    Talking direct with the owner made it clear she as almost desperate to move by then but owing to asking prices where she wanted to move to, she thought she needed her current price.

    We secured the purchase but at a compromise price.

    We then put out own house on the market with a national sized firm. The price they suggeted was considerable lower than what we expected having spent thousands on an extension and a new kitchen.

    The hose still failed to sell.
    we changed agents but kept the low price.
    Someone immediately put in an offer. The house came off the market and we instructed solicitors to do the conveyancing.
    At the last minute, the buyers tried to drop the price by a pretty large margin, without good reason.
    I’m a qualified surveyor and know there was nothing hidden or bad about the house.

    We reluctantly had to witdraw the house from sale and hastily let it out instead.
    We just about managed to move but what a saga!!"

    SO... let me get this straight. You spend all your waking hours bemoaning the "fact" that Agents up and down the country are persistently and massively overvaluing property. YET, you state above "We then put out own house on the market with a national sized firm. The price they suggeted was considerable lower than what we expected having spent thousands on an extension and a new kitchen." So - THIS firm didn't fit your profile of 'yer average' Estate Agent then? These insolent boundahs dared to tell you that your property was not, in fact, worth YOUR preconceived opinion. And they didn't even have the decency to add in the total cost of your "improvements" - never mind adding a 'premium' for good measure! How very dare they!!

    THEN, on the other side of your warped, two-headed coin - "We wanted to move last year and found a house we wanted.
    The agent had successively reduced the price over several months, having failed to sell it but what they were asking when we viewed was still a lot too high." Too high in your personal opinion, of course. Or is that PROFESSIONAL opinion, being an 'expert' in valuation across the miles from Nottingham to Devon...

    You, Sir, are nothing but 'yer average' homeowner and homeseeker. Scream for full whack at one end - demand a bargain at the other.

    Jeez - you really ARE a piece of work!

    • 15 August 2012 14:14 PM
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    "Yes I can!" says Peter Hendry, (and for Peebee's benefit, I already have!)

    Continuation of this discussion is available at the Property match Blog.

    Since there are over 500 comments here (not all helpful either), I've decided to move the article to a blog which can be more carefully moderated.

    The content of the article is still very much on-topic these days, so I would encourage anyone interested, to keep debating this important subject - with a view to finding the best way to resolve what has now become an ongoing crisis.

    • 28 June 2011 09:41 AM
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    Mr Hendry: "Sorry 'guys'. This debate has moved to..."

    No - I am sorry but you can't do that! I have posted on your blogsite, and you have been accommodating enough to respond to me (I'm STILL wading through your last response, by the way...) - however you wanted to open discussions here; the editorial team were good enough to allow you to do so; so I would argue that you should continue with what YOU started.

    Of course, you have the power on your own blog to wield the axe should you not like what someone writes - however you could easily have done that to my postings but chose not to and instead set out to debate in a far less evasive manner than you have shown on this site. I would therefore suggest that unless individuals were to become offensive, that you may well offer the same courtesy. Whether, however, the amount of - and weight behind - opposition to your ideas plastered on your own blogsite is what you want is another matter...

    If I were you, I'd keep it here.

    • 25 May 2011 14:45 PM
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    Dear Mr Hendry

    Thanks for lessons on how to value. We have respect for surveyors superior prowess.

    "Surveyors are facing a rise in the number of court actions brought by lenders over valuations they made before the housing market crashed in 2008. Countrywide alone is expecting to pay up to nearly £12m in claims."

    Oooops

    • 25 May 2011 08:40 AM
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    Sorry 'guys'. This debate has moved to:

    http://www.property-match.co.uk/blog

    If you want to continue discussing this, please re-post there.

    • 23 May 2011 06:46 AM
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    Peter - to stick with your 'interesting' analogy - the conductor only conducts that which the fee paying audience wish to hear. Without an audience, is there any need for the orchestra to be there in the first place?

    • 18 May 2011 16:52 PM
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    Peter, I've never denied the fact that a bad agent can cause a lot of damage, and neither has anyone else on this thread, or the site in general.

    I do still feel that you overestimate the 'clout' we have, and I must apologise and reiterate my belief that you have yet to suggest any feasible plan to correct this situation.

    Today, myself and my colleagues have spent the vast majority of the day trying to persuade a vendor that the offer 6% below their asking price that they really are not going to get anything higher, and that we will help them negotiate on their next property to get a similar reduction off that. If they refuse to accept this offer, who (in your analogy) is to blame? The condutor for using every skill they have (apart from thumbsrews) to get the violinist to behave and follow the score, or the violinist for insisting they know best?

    • 18 May 2011 13:01 PM
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    Country Lass,
    Well, at least you appear to be acknowledging that potentially, there is a problem if the conductor fails to act responsibly.

    The conductor actually has a great deal more 'clout' than you seem to surmise. As the 'Director' s/he can remove members of the orchestra who don't play the game.
    He is ' well qualified' in reading music and so can 'show' the orchestra exactly how to interpret the score.

    A good conductor totally changes the 'value' (or the quality) of the music able to be played by the orchestra. Rehearsals are mandatory too - conductor's orders.

    It is intricate, but there are so many similes one can think of, to help show how the orchestra example can improve the estate agent's business model.

    I wish to invite any agent that may be interested in continuing to comment or debate such important issues as these, to use the Property Match Blog at:
    www.property-match.co.uk/blog

    Thank you.

    • 16 May 2011 17:08 PM
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    Sooo, what happens when you get one violinist, so desperate to get the recognition they feel they desrerve/impress a girl in the audience, that they decide to stand up and do a solo? Is the conducter supposed to march over there and beat them with the baton? And then suppose the cello player decides to stick his bow in and do the same.

    You end up with a complete racket and an audience not understanding that the poor conducter can only do so much. And because the violinists and celloists are now competing, no one can see the rest of the orcestra following the guidance of the conducter and they miss the music being produced.

    Conducter - Agent
    Orchestra - majority of sensible vendors
    Violinist/Cello player - Greedy vendors
    Audience - Buyers.

    The middle school music teacher playing Music Critic - you.

    • 06 May 2011 09:58 AM
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    Despite all comments to the contrary, I still think the market needs to complete a rather painful, yet necessary, re-adjustment to house 'asking prices' - which will need to match the current buying-power of the public, after the downturn.

    In retrospect, having written the blog article about facing the (unpleasant) music of excessive house pricing, I think if I had added the following paragraphs to it, perhaps 400 out of the 500 or more comments subsequently made, might have been rendered unnecessary which would have been fantastic.

    To recap briefly, the main analogy used a comparison between the housing market and an orchestra where:

    Audience = Local groups of buyers (and people moving into the area).
    Conductor = The estate agent.
    Orchestra = The housing market (formed by local sellers).
    Music = House price levels.

    What I should perhaps have said in addition is:
    "The conductor of an orchestra needs to be an expert in reading music, in order to maximise the orchestra's ability to make the sort of music that a paying audience will enjoy.

    In just the same way; estate agents, like orchestral conductors, need to understand how to read the signals of the housing market in their respective localities, in order to apply 'attainable' house prices when giving market appraisals (or recommending the right asking prices to quote). It's a fundamental principle of successful selling, though not always easy to achieve.

    Unfortunately, not doing so technically amounts to professional negligence by the agent advising a vendor client, especially if not doing so, results in an unacceptable or substantial delay in an effective sale of the property concerned.

    I've no wish to appear controversial and neither do I have a wish to criticise estate agency, other than to offer some form of useful feedback about what's going wrong and about what could be improved.

    The primary reason for writing about this initially, was that I have witnessed many vendors who have personally suffered (some pretty severely), from poor marketing involving wrong pricing and usually not through any fault of their own.

    In a nutshell, market price (or market value) is the amount being paid when supply and demand balance perfectly. The best place to test this is probably an auction, selling individual houses.

    In the 'Ideal World', buyers registering at agents' offices would not find themselves surrounded by details of houses that they have seen before because these have been on the market (with one agent or another) for ages and have failed to sell.

    From the agent's point of view also, having a sufficiency of fresh properties to sell, makes better business sense than having a bewildering array of houses, the majority of which are failing to attract genuine interest.

    If there is any possible way of improving this, even in a downturn, estate agents would, of course, be the best people to achieve it.

    My suggestion, in an effort to be helpful in raising the debate, is for estate agents to ensure that the houses they market are sensibly priced, using industry standard methods of measuring local house values. I've seen that this still isn't happening, in the areas I've researched and I've explained, here on this blog, the proper methods that should be used to arrive at sensible asking prices.

    Doing that seems to be the single and most important improvement that could be brought to an industry that undoubtedly needs an image uplift, across the whole of the service and nationwide.

    Inspiring buyers' confidence in the future of owning their own home, seems to me, to be what it's really all about."


    To conclude, if there are still those who fail to see that this is a problem, I suggest that EAT might wish to invite investigative journalists to publish the stories of those who have received unsatisfactory advice at the hands of estate agents, specifically where houses have failed to sell within say three months (or to sell at all in some cases), taken from the time when the initial agent was instructed, and to include those cases where the instruction resulted in the failure of a sale altogether.

    Any professional organisation (e.g. estate agency as it should be today) should naturally expect to chart, or follow, what goes wrong and ought to publish its failure rate(s) alongside the rates of success in selling houses.
    Surely this would also serve to raise the image to estate agency.

    I'm grateful for having been allowed to have my own blog on EAT, even if the remarks, by many of those who made comments, were mostly critical ones. Despite the less than enthusiastic response, I wish t offer any agent that may be interested in continuing to comment or debate about such important issues as these, use of the Property Match Blog at: www.property-match.co.uk/blog

    Your comments to this piece may be posted there (though these will be moderated in order to limit the amount of time spent in writing replies).

    If I am right about the further thoughts I've given here retrospectively, the numbers of negative comments likely to be made after writing them in, should be reduced; though having said that I accept, some will have been worn away in the process of the earlier debate anyway.

    I still believe that there is a need for more sanity in the housing market and for the fight for it to be brought into the public domain. My view is that encouraging the estates sector itself to provide proper training for all of its sales staff, could provide renewed sanity but that any such training would need to be intelligent, correctly focussed and frank, rather than piecemeal and ambiguous, as has evidently been the case in the past.

    • 05 May 2011 18:28 PM
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    Okay, Mr Hendry - party time! Hope you can join...

    This is in relation to the very nucleus of your wee agenda. The fact that Agents do not 'value' property when they appraise them for the market. The fact that YOU want to change the Estate Agents Act in favour of what you label Set Price Selling Techniques - aka the "Three months then the Agent has to buy" shenanegans.

    From YOUR OWN website, under the 'Value Your House' section, the following statement: "You should understand that the market is not the same, day after day. It can vary from one week to the next. As an example there are not as many buyers in the market during the Easter and summer holidays or the few weeks before or after. There are not as many buyers in the market before Christmas until after the New Year. So “market value” is a variable, depending on time of year."

    SO - if the market can move daily, HOW can you justify requiring an Estate Agent's 'valuation' to be valid for THREE MONTHS?

    No RICS valuation would be valid for that period...

    I have also posted this on your actual blog, seeing as you seem to be ignoring this site at present. One way or another I will get your attention! (of course, as your blog is subject to moderation, I very much doubt that my post will ever be seen by your adoring public...)

    • 05 May 2011 15:14 PM
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    Well, Mr Hendry - looks like your fifteen minutes of fame are up.

    Only 50 new views in the last six days (I reckon a dozen are mine, probably the same for you if not more...), and no new posts in the same timeframe.

    Still - you crossed the 500 mark so you must be proud of that...

    How much extra business flooded to your site as a result, by the way?

    Estate Agents EVERYWHERE benefitted from your words, I reckon...

    • 03 May 2011 13:41 PM
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    Eventually they always go home or find a gutter to sleep in.
    Goodnight Gentleman!

    • 28 April 2011 09:08 AM
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    CL; Disbelief, et al - don't need to set your sights so high as a set-to with Mr Walker and Mr Hendry.

    A ding-dong between a sock puppet and the Mental Muppet would result in similar carnage!

    Country Lass - I couldn't agree more with your comments relating to Hendry's outrageous posts today which will no doubt have offended or otherwise upset many.

    Mr Hendry may have been in the workplace for three score years plus, but he proves once again that he has learned NOTHING in that time about human nature and its' complexities.

    • 26 April 2011 22:34 PM
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    An open debate between EW and Realising Reality? H3ll that I'd pay to watch, s0d the seminar! Baggsie bringing the rotten eggs!!

    Warning for EW, I ain't exactly the greatest shot. Bring an umbrella.

    • 26 April 2011 20:17 PM
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    I have a plan. Lets have a face to face debate. I Know EW as I worked for him once - he loves a challenge. Get him and Hendry in the same place - trust me - it would be VERY funny. Eric has a wicked cutting sense of humour and taught me everything - Hendry would be eaten alive. I may be wrong - in which case, remind readers EW also has a black belt in Judo. So in the words of Harry Hill - so which is better.... Internet, or traditional... FIIIIIIIIIGHT!! Lol

    • 26 April 2011 19:26 PM
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    501 - its in the jeans. More interesting than Hendry!!

    • 26 April 2011 19:19 PM
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    Yay!

    • 26 April 2011 18:43 PM
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    Mr Hope. Welcome to the debate. I note that you do not necessarily support - or agree with - my stance in this matter, however your comment is gratefully accepted nevertheless in the spirit that it was I believe intended.

    As your stated professional designation confirms you to be a Fellow of both the RICS and ISVA (may I presume via the ISVA route pre-merger?), AND a Fellow of the NAEA, I would be most interested if you might be persuaded to share your personal opinion of Mr Hendry's suggested changes to house marketing processes.

    Thank you in anticipation.

    • 26 April 2011 18:08 PM
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    I'm more concerned about the fact he seems to have gone from being a blasphemer (are you God) to some sort of God-Squad/beatnik/hippie hybrid!



    No insult intended to any religion/lifestyle. I deal with that cr*p enough myself to dish it out.

    • 26 April 2011 18:00 PM
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    "As you are not an estate agent you have little to say that might be meaningful in this debate."

    Mr Hendry you are not and Estate Agent either. Does that mean that what you have contributed is as meaningless as you claim Peebee's posts to be?

    • 26 April 2011 17:32 PM
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    "Commenteers. It's never too late to learn but first you need a good heart to listen and understand with.

    Now, let all those who are scared of change, or of what might be next, depart in peace; and duel no more but instead work in harmony to build a heavenly future, one of trust, consideration and understanding."

    IF EVER you want to see the ravings of a man who has clearly tipped over the edge - then this is the perfect example.

    • 26 April 2011 17:08 PM
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    Hendry: Myself and I think I could speak for others here 'embrace change' for the right reasons.

    The only change you have suggested is that Estate Agents value like surveyors, which is not a very good change and thats why no one has embraced it.

    • 26 April 2011 16:14 PM
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    Commenteers. It's never too late to learn but first you need a good heart to listen and understand with.

    Now, let all those who are scared of change, or of what might be next, depart in peace; and duel no more but instead work in harmony to build a heavenly future, one of trust, consideration and understanding.

    • 26 April 2011 15:41 PM
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    Latest Twitter rantlets:
    "Do estate agents (who advise sellers on asking prices) fully realise that banker's debts have been transferred to everyone else's pockets?"

    SO...? Using THAT as your argument is going to get you ten percent of the way to NOWHERE, Mr Hendry.

    WHAT AN OWN GOAL! A shot from nowhere. The keeper had no chance.

    "What's actually happened is that bankers debt has simply been transferred over to Government debt! We all have to START paying it off now???"

    SO?? Same argument as above. If there is no money - HOUSES WILL NOT AND CAN NOT BE SOLD - simple as.

    ANYTHING YOU PROPOSE therefore is irrelevant...

    ANOTHER OWN GOAL! Two in the space of one line. Yet again, the keeper is mystified as he bends to pick the ball out of the net.

    "IF universities can charge up-front fees for degree courses, estate agents could easily do the same for house marketing services. Up quality"

    WOW! - next you'll have us believe that garages charge for petrol BEFORE you leave the forecourt! How bizarre would THAT be...?

    Try comparing like for like - a service with a service, then you will see how the real world rotates. You pay for dental work AT THE END OF THE TREATMENT; vet bills AFTER THE VET sees the dog; solicitor fees ON THE COMPLETION STATEMENT.

    Instead - you concentrate on University fees - the original and best liar loan. Take out loan now; pay back... never, actually... Might as well put a 'sell by' date on them - make it official. Throw away the paperwork after three years and let someone else pick up the tab. Oh - they already have - and Roderick has got a shiny degree in sports science (but no prospect of a job...) to show for it...

    YET ANOTHER OWN GOAL! This certainly ISNT a game of two halves - it's all happening here and now!

    Congratulations - three shots - three resounding hits. Pity they are in your own net each time...

    • 26 April 2011 14:56 PM
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    Hendry: Im very aware that you wrote the main article, which is a load of drivel, we also know that you are a bit of a cut and paste merchant as well.

    You are not doing yourself any favours here, you have exposed yourself warts and all, which has only made YOU look stupid.

    I have nothing to prove, im just an agent out there in the field, doing it and selling.

    YOU are trying to stand there shouting from the rooftops, but no-ones listening, everyones just laughing at you.

    • 26 April 2011 14:10 PM
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    If your proposals were actually any good, you would have received some sort of public praise on EAT by now. I haven't ever seen a positive comment to ANYTHING you have written - still not getting the hint?

    Instead, you are a joke - well known on EAT, but for the wrong reasons.

    As for your free seminars...I couldn't convince even your own family to go that.

    Do something constructive with your life, rather than posting on this blog thinking change will come.

    We embrace change, but you have not given anything. Instead you have continued your ramblings and have almost 500 replies - NONE are praising you, NONE are welcoming your ideas. Surely, a good idea would get 1 positive comment out of 500 posts?

    This whole episode is quite cringeful and embarassing now.

    • 26 April 2011 14:06 PM
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    "Are you God O :-)"

    Don't be so darn ridiculous; insulting and offensive to the beliefs of many. All you do is distance yourself FURTHER than you already have, Mr Hendry, from those that you falsely claim to want to help.

    When have I EVER claimed ANYTHING? It is not ME who hoists up his arms and claims to have all the answers, and everyone should turn and listen; then DO what HE says.

    I suggest you retract that foolhardy statement before you offend more of your target audience. Yet another Ratnerism from the Legendary Peter Hendry...

    "Comments are supposed to bring something 'new' to a blog, not just criticise other people's opinions!"

    So WHY do you criticise MY opinion? I AM entitled to one, after all - the fact that it is diametrically opposite to yours is what bugs you... The fact that you have printed NOTHING to change my - or anyone else's - opinion throughout this lengthy debate speaks volumes of a) your actual message; b) your abilities to debate; c) MASSIVE opposition.
    (Funnily enough, I've never heard of your above 'rule' either. Without opposition, or challenge, to ideas, there can be no real debate. An ex-boss of mine once said " If you and I agree on everything, then ONE OF US is redundant! We NEVER concurred on ANYTHING...)

    If you want nobody to disagree with you, Mr Hendry - simply don't say anything! Job done!

    Ask yourself this - WHY would Agents spurn "the golden goose", Mr Hendry? WHY would sellers not want an "instant fix" for protracted selling periods and uncertainties?

    "Those that ask dopy questions are unwelcome on all blogs."

    Mr Hendry - please show us all (although in context 'all' isn't a vast number these days, as most have simply given up on you...) YOUR IDEA of a "dopy question". Just for the record - so we know what NOT to ask you in future. Not that it matters - you answer NONE...

    "Id rather no-one posted at all, than people posted more comments of this kind :-X"

    I FLIPPIN' WELL BET YOU DO! You have turned yourself and your site into laughing stock. You score own goal after own goal - yet you keep coming back for more of the same. AT WHAT POINT do you see this going ANY OTHER WAY??

    YOUR DOING, Mr Hendry - no-one else's!

    • 26 April 2011 13:56 PM
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    Dopy questions- are you God?

    Offensive - PeePoo/PooPoo.

    Follow your own advice ( that I actually agree with as degraded as it makes me feel) and leave this blog/thread/site.

    • 26 April 2011 13:50 PM
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    @HD:
    Has it occurred to you that if I really DID hate estate agents, I would be on the HPC site that you suggest is where all such haters hang out? D'ooooh!

    If you want to post, how about coming up with some better ideas than those in the Main Article - which I wrote (by the way)!

    My comment, which actually DOES say something:
    "Homebuyers have been in short supply during the downturn. The number of homes sold was  1.6million in 2006, the year before the credit crunch struck, but was just under 900,000 in 2010."

    That matters, to me anyway :-o.

    • 26 April 2011 13:49 PM
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    Hendry: You have offered nothing after 480 odd replies, and not for the first time your now acting like a kid.

    Anyone that runs a Private Sales website ( not just you) will actually make the property market worse, by allowing those greedy vendor advertise at what they want.

    But first these sites need to be found. I think YOU are in the wrong place here to build that traffic, If wanted to be adored like a king, head over to House Price Crash, they will love you there, they hate Estate Agents as much as you do. Hell, you might even be able to tout a couple of properties, and earn yourself £70, or maybe a bit more if you can persuade them to have a board.

    • 26 April 2011 13:37 PM
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    @PeeBee: Are you God O :-)
    Comments are supposed to bring something 'new' to a blog, not just criticise other people's opinions!

    Those that ask dopy questions are unwelcome on all blogs. They are usually off-topic and mostly unnecessary.
    Those that are silly, or even worse, offensive, as you are PeePoo, are simply not wanted, incase anyone should still be in any doubt whatsoever.

    Id rather no-one posted at all, than people posted more comments of this kind :-X

    • 26 April 2011 13:10 PM
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    "As you are not an estate agent you have little to say that might be meaningful in this debate."

    How short-sighted. How pompous. How wrong.

    I have said to you MANY times that I am a vendor AND purchaser of property. What I think about YOUR SITE should be of VITAL interest to you - but you think that I am alone. WHY THEN, do you have less than a HANDFUL of 'actual' listings, if it is so perfect; so easy to navigate; so "the modern way to market houses"?

    Allow me to enlighten he who is hiding in the darkest room, believing all to be well. WE - the public - think the site is rubbish! The fact that others can't be bothered to tell you shouldn't let you think otherwise. YOUR FIGURES SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES - figures you have shirked away from providing time after time.

    "I, and others, have been very patient."

    WHICH OTHERS? I don't claim to be anything other than what I am - but I don't see anyone having a pop at me about my statements other than YOU...

    "Although you have probably been among the most frequent posters on this blog, what you have proposed, amounts to nothing."

    As I haven't proposed anything, then THAT would be accurate - your truest words yet. Your ONLY true words, actually... I have NEVER CLAIMED to propose change. I probably NEVER WILL. However, as one who is using the services of Estate Agents in the selling and buying process, I SHOULD BE ABLE to say what I believe to be good and bad, as it affects ME PERSONALLY.

    "You're disrupting the important work going on here."

    WHAT WORK? You are simply boosting your site's ratings (not much to do there - I would call it 'job done' if I were you...) by linking and piggybacking on decent sites that get ASTRONOMICALLY MORE hits than YOUR SITE.

    "One question for you is: - Can you remember ever being obedient to anyone, in you whole life. If so, to whom and why?"

    OBEDIENT? Just who the H3ll do you think you are? You will NEVER see me do what YOU want me to do. It will simply not happen - so don't wait up.

    "Once again, therefore I request you to no longer post on this blog or thread. I mean it."

    Ooohh - YOU MEAN IT, do you? Should I be scared?

    Don't think you can bully me, sunshine. You have already depleted your VERY LIMITED armoury; the last cotton wool bullets expended so now you resort to juvenile name-calling and pushing in the schoolyard! "Poo-Poo" - what is THAT meant to do? Make me run off crying? A pathetic attempt from a pathetic individual. Believe it or not, I actually expect better from you - and I have set the bar AMAZINGLY low just for you...

    Just remember - so far I have been toying with you. Never even changed up into second gear - didn't need to. You blast so many holes in your own ramparts with your OWN WORDS AND ACTIONS that I simply need to wiggle my fingers in to pull down a whole wall. You lie - then lie about the lie. And because you commit EVERYTHING to screen, you bring it all upon yourself.

    You seem to enjoy exposing your own incompetencies. You should become a politician.

    At least that way you will have an income stream for a while...

    • 26 April 2011 12:44 PM
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    Once again, those currently posting are not interested in examining the plight of the housing market in these 'extreme' and becoming much more 'extreme' conditions.

    You obviously can't understand and I'm obviously disappointed.

    Nevertheless, I'm extremely annoyed that I've been personally insulted by you and the other no-change campaigners.

    PeeBee’s views should be disregarded “because he is not an estate agent, just a commentator. He just likes to criticise every proposal put forward and sees this as a fundamental right! He is scared of everything (he won't even reveal who he actually is). His comments serve no purpose other than to support those who are frightened to take any risks that may involve change.

    Please, everyone, do not allow such poison to pervade this blog, if you want to gain anything from it.

    I have no wish to waste time, even if those commenting have nothing better to do with their's.

    • 26 April 2011 11:41 AM
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    I'm going to assume that PeeBee is of a similar mentality to myself. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

    There are probably many times in his life he has been obedient to people, however I would venture they are people for whom he has (for one reason or another) respect.

    I highly doubt you are one of these people.

    And why should he leave? You don't own this site, you have hardly given him reason to fear or respect you, so who died and made you boss?

    • 26 April 2011 10:37 AM
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    Mr Hendry: You aren't an Estate Agent Though and you have not bought anything meaningful to the debate either.

    That is a stonewall FACT.

    Isn't it time to give up here now, do you realise that nobody is listening?

    People are just mocking you now.

    • 26 April 2011 10:09 AM
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    @HD:
    Sorry but you're being personal and talking b0ll0cks, yet again. Be positive about something instead eh? %-(

    • 26 April 2011 09:58 AM
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    'As you are not an estate agent you have little to say that might be meaningful in this debate'

    Mr Hendry: Neither are you an Estate Agent. And you certainly don't have anything interesting to say yourself.

    • 26 April 2011 09:38 AM
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    @PooPoo, (Destroyer of new ideas) The FALLACY (as you put it) is a matter of opinion, yours it would appear :-#

    I, and others, have been very patient. We have read and considered what you have raised in this blog, but it doesn't amount to anything.

    You maintain anonymity, yet spend a great deal of your time simply denouncing and tearing down new ideas as they are put forward.

    Concentrating on slagging off Property Match, is off-topic and a total waste of time. Here we're discussing problems in estate agency.

    As you are not an estate agent you have little to say that might be meaningful in this debate.

    In fact I don't think I can remember when you ever actually proposed a good idea that could take the 'World of estate agency' forward.

    Although you have probably been among the most frequent posters on this blog, what you have proposed, amounts to nothing.

    Sadly, some people can do no better than this. It's everyone else that need a permanent break from this though.

    Once again, therefore I request you to no longer post on this blog or thread. I mean it.

    You're disrupting the important work going on here.

    One question for you is: - Can you remember ever being obedient to anyone, in you whole life. If so, to whom and why?

    On second thoughts, please don't answer this.
    Vamoose, just go somewhere else, permanently.

    • 26 April 2011 09:11 AM
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    "...on the Property Match (UK) web site and blog: http://www.property-match.co.uk/ only factual statements may be found about the market and its current state..."

    FALLACY: "Up to 60% of houses put up for sale with estate agents fail to sell, many because of initial over-pricing!"

    FALLACY: "We offer those viewing property on our site genuine sellers, advertising with the sole intention of getting sales.
    They are obviously genuine, because they have paid a small sum to advertise their houses direct with us."

    FALLACY: "Our market research indicates that house-price booms, followed by slumps on a cyclical basis, are caused by estate agents competing with each other to win instructions by over-exaggerating asking prices to clients."

    I could go on. And on. And on...

    You CAN NOT discern truth from your fantasy - admit it!

    • 24 April 2011 18:56 PM
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    PeePee, Please try and understand it's SO not about our site trying to attract more clients. It's about the need to improve estate agency.
    May I provide all agents prepared to listen with a free mirror? (and that doesn't include you because you aren't an agent).

    You say:
    "I should be removed from the public domain." …

    1. Now who's the Communist then?
    2. You aren't in the market yourself having neither an estate agent's office nor an online marketing site, so what the heck would you know about any of this?
    3. There is a risk of drawing 'Klingfire' to yourself if you hang around here much longer PeePee. Haven't you got anything else to do, seriously?
    4. Most of your comments are mere gainsay. They merely contradict for the sake of it, just so that you can keep posting without actually researching anything to post. I have explained, people posting on here should post ideas extra to those being proposed or at least alternative ones. You post nothing. Can't you understand what I said abut that and aren't you man enough to say anything unless you stay anonymous? You a nuisance-monger and people should know you for what your are.
    5. These ideas are well beyond your comprehension so PLEASE LEAVE THIS THREAD.

    • 23 April 2011 18:02 PM
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    "Here's the idea:

    If agents charged a reasonable amount for market appraisals - enough to cover all the expenses for the practice concerned, more effort could be put into doing them. This way, agents could offer more accurate, and carefully produced appraisals and not be out of pocket by doing that."

    Yeah - and YOUR site, which allows individuals to 'market' their property (which, in itself is a misdescription, as surely in order to do so, the housebuying public would need to actually VISIT the site...) USING THEIR OWN 'valuation' might...just MIGHT... pick up a few more listings that way!

    Hendry, you have proved yourself time after time to be a lying, scheming charlatan. Today - you top your best ever attempt - when I didn't believe it to be possible to sink lower than you already have.

    You should be removed from the public domain. You WOULD BE, if the public knew about you and your woeful website.

    it is YOU who brings the property industry into disrepute EVERY TIME you touch your keyboard.

    IF YOU HAD A TEAM, like you claim to have - they have either left and wiped the memory of working with you off their CVs, leaving you to pilot your fast-sinking ship alone; or they are simply so bad at what they do that you are their last chance saloon. EITHER ANSWER explains how woeful your website is.

    LEAVE THE PROPERTY MARKET TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING!

    • 23 April 2011 11:09 AM
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    "What's being proposed here is a shift in paradigm."

    The housing market has been beset with the same problems for 30 years or more, so straight-forward bolt-on ideas about how best to market houses are unlikely to take things forward.

    "We all have to take into account the possibility that something is systematically wrong with our ideas."
    "We therefore need something radical and new, and this is something radical and new." says Peter Hendry, a surveyor and former estate agent, with over 30 years working experience in the sector.

    Here is a brief synopsis of the proposals I am advocating, and why:


    1. The fact that the housing market has slowed nationally, and the number of completed sales transactions has slumped, is because agents are not following current 'market-led' prices but instead are attempting to stick with out of date and over-exaggerated ones, for whatever reason.


    2. In a nutshell, Market price (or market value) is the amount of money being paid when supply and demand balance perfectly (whilst allowing for the period needed to find a buyer, let's say three months for houses generally).

    The only way the market can balance supply with demand, when prices are held artificially high, is by sellers eventually pulling out of the market owing to the scarce number of people wishing to buy at such high prices. This causes the market to further stagnate; unless and until demand for more houses, at the excessive prices stated, increases once again (unlikely).

    What I am saying is that this condition is actually being induced by over-zealous estate agents - operating in a vain effort to win house-selling instructions by agreeing to represent their clients' supposed best interests, whilst knowing that in truth the prices being mooted are well above current market expectations (London being the one exception of course).

    This whole thing needs a complete re-think, in my view because without it, the problems of ever-booming then busting prices in the housing market will simply continue.


    3. My response to the claim by some estate agents that private sales web sites like e.g. Property Match (UK) are simply trying to rubbish what they do and then 'snaffle' their business, is this: -

    In fact it's the estate agents themselves who are trying to rubbish private sales web sites like ours. To see what I mean for yourselves, please look on the EstateAgentToday blogs:

    This blog: (http://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/news_features/Peter-Hendry-blog)
    And: http://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/news_features/Eric-Walker-Blog

    These two blogs, along with several others on EAT, are full of offensive comments made by estate agents, usually posting anonymously and which are both sad to read and morally cowardly on account of the anonymity.

    By comparison, on the Property Match (UK) web site and blog: http://www.property-match.co.uk/ only factual statements may be found about the market and its current state, together with positive suggestions of ways to improve its performance, and the performance of those that work in it. Anyone can contact the site's 'human' web site manager.

    Many estate agents appear to harbour the misapprehension that we at Property Match (UK) maintain a blanket condemnation of estate agency practices, some openly admit it. This is simply untrue. The site was set up and is being maintained to draw attention to and explain some of the more important failings of estate agents, and to offer the public an alternative service for as long as is required, or until a more normal (and acceptable) service is resumed in the field of estate agency.
    A new, good, honest and effective service needs to be delivered by agents so that their reputations can be repaired, at long last. Surely even estate agents would not dispute that it's needed.


    4. The only way to achieve such high objectives is for all those acting as agents of house-selling clients to know, or learn how to determine asking prices within the range of where market prices currently are. That 'expertise' is what agents should 'own', as part of what they can and should offer their clients.

    Not knowing how to assess such prices with reasonable accuracy and reliability is totally unacceptable, as far as any service being offered to the client-public is concerned.

    The need to know how to assess market values is a vital part of estate agency nowadays but evidently, this is not something most current-day agents whom I have spoken to know much about. Gut-reaction is what springs to their minds instead! I hope all estate agents may soon begin to see that they need to address this massive problem and remedy it urgently. If not it is most likely that we shall see more continuing disruption across the UK housing market, with price booms, followed by busts, until such time as everyone sees this as a problem needing to be urgently remedied.


    5. To me, probably the most tragic thing, seen as a result of the comments posted on this blog is the offensive nature of the remarks (to say the least) by several anonymous-blogging agents, who seem quite unable to post any intelligent responses to what is being proposed and whom have simply decided to dislike all new ideas!


    6.This trait, amongst current-day practicing estate agents needs, in my opinion anyway, to be proactively weeded out by all the caring practitioners within the profession, both for the benefit of all house-selling clients, and to improve the image that clients have of estate agency in general.

    Are you up for this yet, estate agents???


    Here's the idea:

    If agents charged a reasonable amount for market appraisals - enough to cover all the expenses for the practice concerned, more effort could be put into doing them. This way, agents could offer more accurate, and carefully produced appraisals and not be out of pocket by doing that.

    If the agent giving the appraisal gives it their best shot, but they don't win the instruction, they won't have wasted anything because taking on property that won't sell, one with too high a price tag, is a drain on any practice's resources - and they will have been paid for their abortive work anyway.

    If most practices did careful, more accurate market appraisals, after a fairly short while different firm's appraisal figures would converge with each other in appraisal price. This would be the ideal situation for the seller too, as then they could choose the firm they prefer, based on all the other criteria which are probably just as important (or even more so) than asking or appraisal price alone.

    "Surely this is the way estate agents should evolve the service they offer into what they should next be offering all house-selling clients?"

    • 23 April 2011 09:57 AM
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    'We, at Property match (UK) say its time agents re-tuned the way they do business, if they are to remain viable.'

    It Should read

    'We, at Property match (UK) (if you can find us on the world wide web), will charge you to advertise your property for a small fee, even though its is already free to list with oodle.

    • 21 April 2011 09:40 AM
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    There is a fundamental point worth re-stating here. I originally explained this over a year ago in response to an article by the editor of EAT called
    Battle between online and High Street that lies ahead, Friday 12th March 2010.

    The reason why new methods of transacting house sales are needed in the UK is that estate agents have, for a long time misrepresented market values by skewing current house prices and causing untold damage to the smooth operation of the property market.

    Successive booms and busts in house prices are testimony to this. There is no reason why house prices should need to fluctuate so wildly, even when our economy itself is in crisis.

    If you look carefully, you will see that houses, being a basic need of society, should command a relatively stable price. This should depend upon current wealth and not on borrowing capability. The sole reason they are is not, is the over-exuberant activity of estate agents, who simply guess asking prices and try and force unwitting buyers into paying these by borrowing huge amounts. They even help people to borrow the money!

    Its time a new, more professional, and reliable method is found for transacting house sales.

    Now that all necessary vital information for doing house valuations is publicly available, if estate agents can't do these properly, owners can commission others to do proper valuations for them, or just do them themselves.

    If agents don't get their act together quickly now, it is, for the first time ever, possible for other entrepreneurs to take on the job and to do it more effectively.
    The latest improvements in transparency within the housing market, outlined above, should have a considerable and stabilising affect on the housing market and even the whole UK economy. These therefore have great merit, especially in the present economic downturn.

    We, at Property match (UK) say its time agents re-tuned the way they do business, if they are to remain viable.

    Market price (or market value) is the sum being paid when supply and demand balance perfectly (i.e. over the period needed to find a buyer, let's say three months for houses generally).

    The throughput of completed sales over time graph should remain smooth, if agents are doing their jobs properly and the market is working efficiently.

    Sadly, nothing any agent has said in the intervening comments and debate has changed anything for the better as yet.

    • 21 April 2011 09:11 AM
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    Ps Mr Hendry: You mentioned on the blog as well about putting your reputation on the line.

    Lets get this STRAIGHT as well, YOU HAVE NO REPUTATION.

    Rather than sitting in your musty old armchair in front of your PC all day, get out their and make the changes that are going to change the industry, cos you know one is listening to you here,

    • 20 April 2011 17:22 PM
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    "Just to keep things straight, I did invite EW to use my blog to continue this debate but he evidently preferred not to."

    TO KEEP THINGS STRAIGHT?? You can't lie straight in bed!

    No, Mr Hendry - he simply sees your thinly veiled attempt at piggybacking off another to gain some traffic. Let it drop - you have done well so far to have been let off with only a taste of Mr Walker's wealth of ability to crush your woeful argument into the void between two molecules.

    Said it before; say it again - he can and will buy you with one hand and sell you with the other. AND, he is a big name. This ain't no annoying, anonymous little dog like me naggingly chewing at your ankles, Mr Hendry. This one will BITE YOU IN TWO without thinking about it.

    • 20 April 2011 17:09 PM
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    Hendry: I think it goes more like this, he wrote a great post, everyone comended it, you hi-jacked it with your usual babble, he was kind enough to reply with some great answers, you reply back again with your usual babble.

    EW, himself also pointed out your in-accurate data or your site.

    I know you will defend this, in your 'im right, and everyone is wrong world'.

    Good luck in drumming up some people to come to your seminar.

    • 20 April 2011 15:20 PM
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    @HD, Just to keep things straight, I did invite EW to use my blog to continue this debate but he evidently preferred not to. Not my decision.

    See earlier reply from me to him, if you don't believe me!

    • 20 April 2011 14:53 PM
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    I had to chuckle a little when I have read that latest response on EW Blog. Hendry, its gotta be time to get it that straight jacket now.

    I think its a bit of a disgrace really the way your trying to hijack the other blog, which if you read everyone elses comments but yours, everyone commends EW on a great blog. Unfortunately the day will never come when anyone agrees with yours.

    Did I read correctly, that you want to invite EW to one of your seminars?

    • 20 April 2011 13:42 PM
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    Disbelief: If you didn't believe THAT, then you'll be completely amazed at the fact that he has now hijacked Mr Walker's blogspot in order to a) divert attention from what is being said here and b) get himself further up the page once more.

    His thirst for notoriety will drown him. Or Mr Walker will simply crush him again.

    Poor, sad individual. Fame at any price - including ridicule.

    Norman Wisdom's theme tune has found a totally unworthy nevertheless appropriate successor...

    • 20 April 2011 13:28 PM
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    Read EW's response to Peter Hendrys 3 concerns or the Eric Walker Blog

    It makes Hendry look like a sausage in a cheap chip shop - badly battered.

    • 20 April 2011 08:51 AM
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    Latest Tw@ttting exercise from the Man Himself...

    "I'm offering advice on how to create stability within the UK housing market, by uncovering the BIG flaw in the current estate agents's model "

    Oh, dear. At WHAT point does a craving for attention become Sectionable?

    • 19 April 2011 17:54 PM
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    We do have to remember that Mr Hendry does have to go out and work his other job, whatever that may be, because his internet hobby selling site don't make no cash.

    • 19 April 2011 17:29 PM
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    Wardy, I'm still here (although not all the time). By all means post here, or it it's bulky, email it to me at:
    frwardy@property-match.co.uk

    Thanks.

    • 19 April 2011 17:08 PM
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    Hi Peter.
    I think I’m ready to talk about our valuing method although it seems you may of abandoned this thread?

    • 19 April 2011 14:05 PM
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    Had a few spare moment so though I'd have a quick look on here and I found a corker. PeeBee - I didn't know mastermind had a twitter page, then I found this gem of a 'tweet' :

    "One main reason why shops are experiencing the worst fall in sales since before 1996 is because estate agents do not value houses correctly. "

    That's it. That is the post. Fin, done. No further word, no link.

    You are a 24 carat plonker. Eric Walker has completely pulled your pants the rest of the way down (you had made a start yourself).

    I know rational, sensible, smart people cannot resist the urge to reply to these silly comments and threads because of the sheer stupidity. However, sadly, we have made this nobody 'famous' on EAT site....for the wrong reasons of course.

    • 18 April 2011 21:29 PM
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    Funny isn't it. EW replies on his blog article as requested with very detailed answers - and nothing for Peter other than he will let EW know if he disagrees. I doubt Eric will worry - his polite broadside has really killed the thread. Stone dead.

    • 18 April 2011 16:49 PM
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    Mr Hendry: Here, today, you say to AceofSpades: "You are just a self-opinionated person but one of several in your industry. Why keep posting stuff that means nothing here."

    Also today, on Twitter, you say "Estate agents are still pricing ord houses at armageddon level! It's last chance saloon-time now, but what if it turns out they were wrong ?"

    YOUR opinion, Mr Hendry. NO-ONE ELSE backing you up. That makes you, along with all the other things we know you as, a self-opinionated HYPOCRITE.

    Thank you for making such a steadfast effort in drawing our attention to your many, many character flaws. Others would try hard to cover theirs...

    But, of course, you are ignoring me, so you will not respond. Fine - but you soon will, when I am the only one you have to lock horns with.

    Until then, I shall just sit here and chew at your ankles...

    • 18 April 2011 16:17 PM
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    Mr Hendry thrives on debate and confrontation, albeit hes not very good at either.

    450 odd posts and he has offered nothing, hes also tried to high jack EW excellent blog, where again, hes been shot down.

    If we all leave him be and ignore what he has to say. He will soon go and find another site to vent his frustrations, maybe HPC, they will think hes king there.

    • 18 April 2011 16:11 PM
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    Status quo v need for change.
    Gut reaction v applied logic. I choose applied logic.

    • 18 April 2011 14:11 PM
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    Pot, kettle, black....

    • 18 April 2011 11:49 AM
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    @AceofSpades. You are just a self-opinionated person but one of several in your industry. Why keep posting stuff that means nothing here.

    Your comments are only gainsay. They merely negate what I say for the sake of avoiding having to confront the issue. Why pretend it's not there?

    Lets start a 'real' debate about how to resolve 'the problem' - NOW. It's needed you know.

    • 18 April 2011 11:30 AM
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    There are so many factors that have lead the market to where it is now.

    I have not seen one person agree with your comments on EAT. There's the hint. Good ideas are welcomed on this site. Banging on about the same ideas that have already been pulled to pieces is boring.

    Like we have all said, the market is not at it's best, but you have offered nothing to improve it. Deal with it.

    • 18 April 2011 11:14 AM
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    @AceofSpades. Where does it say that I (or anyone else for that matter) MUST answer all questions on this blog, no matter how stupid they are, how off topic, or how inappropriate?

    Good sense must surely prevail in such circumstances.
    You are just trying to divert us from the real issues which are:

    "Why are so few houses changing hands right now, and what can be done to restore the housing market back into good health?"

    I am asking for examples of estate agent's market valuations of houses using comparables methods. So far, NO agent has come forward with an answer to this question.

    • 18 April 2011 10:12 AM
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    "It's just that I find it difficult not to be, when whoever I chat to pretends to sound knowledgeable about things they really know little about. That applies to any subject, of course. "

    That applies to you, Peter. You haven't listened to anyone who provides feedback. You have ignored sticky topics/questions where you know you haven't got a leg to stand on. Above all, you have offered NOTHING to 'improve' the property market.

    As I mentioned, please take up some charity work if you have so much free time.

    We all think his ideas are worthless and he refuses to answer the real questions asked (great example = Eric Walker's question: why should a private seller pay you?), just stop feeding him.

    • 18 April 2011 08:54 AM
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    Wardy, I would rather not have sounded curt in my last comment. It's just that I find it difficult not to be, when whoever I chat to pretends to sound knowledgeable about things they really know little about. That applies to any subject, of course.

    For your added benefit we have two types of Oodle search. One is, as you say, basically a copy and paste matter but the main search filter is a highly integrated affair with bespoke scripting on our side. The scripting we use is not available from Oodle either.

    It's all a bit academic though. All I'm asking is to discuss and examine 'comparable valuation methods'. I'm not planning to be critical of individuals, by the way.

    It's finding a way to enhance outcomes, or improve methods, if that seems to be something worth pursuing.

    Thanks in advance of receiving your help, in due course.

    • 16 April 2011 17:48 PM
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    I will check with oodle and get back to you.

    • 16 April 2011 15:47 PM
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    Wardy,
    Clearly you have absolutely no experience of coding web sites for search engine interaction.

    It's true one can copy and paste a code snippet to make Oodle produce SOME results, but that's not at all what we have done.

    We have gone very significantly further with high-end bespoke scripts, costing a lot in design brief, coding expertise, testing, and development. It is NOT the copy and paste product.

    I really hope this explains and that you, at last, believe what i am saying.

    • 16 April 2011 13:46 PM
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    oodle is just a piece of code.
    A simple case of copy and paste. Admit it and my wealth of experiance and knowledge will be yours to criticise.

    • 16 April 2011 13:32 PM
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    Wardy,
    You seem to have a fixed idea in your head that I keep exaggerating. No, I'm trying to be accurate and informative.

    You cannot estimate how much time everyone at PM has spent making this site perform interactively.
    Its hundred and hundreds of hours. The site has not been bought off the shelf, its bespoke.

    I can assure you that to make any site use Oodle to find the results we fine is complex, and expensive. I have not overestimated that at all.

    Sorry to have to disappoint you.

    Will you please help with valuation information as promised.

    • 16 April 2011 12:02 PM
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    Peter.
    Ok, let’s talk turkey.
    I will cut the negative comments and give you my valuation model on the condition that you respond to the following. Let me quote you.

    'There is probably no web site around other than Property Match (UK) that’s so good at finding what's available as ours, because we've spent thousands setting up the systems for doing that very thing.'

    I’ve always said I find this hard to believe. Purely because I understand how your site works. Even more so after this quote from you.

    'If it's any help, I also admit that things are not perfect with the web facility I'm involved in right now. I'm aware that the niceness of our page design isn't slick enough to please many people. I even accept that I am not talented enough to fix that myself, without leaning more first.'

    so, will you admit that the first quote from you was infact complete bullc**p? Thousands of pounds peter? If you do I will happily give you my valuation method in full detail.

    • 16 April 2011 11:30 AM
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    Form Hendry's Tw@tter page:
    "The new Scottish house marketing system is already making their housing market work more effectively than ours: (link to tyhe EAT story)"

    THAT IS NOT WHAT THE STORY SAYS, MR HENDRY!

    Youn simply link to up your own rating chance.

    YOU ARE A SPAMMER! YOU CERTAINLY DON'T KNOW HOW TO SELL PROPERTY!

    YOU WOULDNT HAVE A CLUE - THAT IS WHY YOU WANT PRICES DOWN, DOWN FURTHER AND THEN DOWN AGAIN. YOU DO NOT POSSESS THE NECESSARY SKILLS TO 'SELL', AT ANYTHING OTHER THAN GIVEAWAY PRICE!

    Don't be ashamed - there are many like you. Just admit your limitations... and offer a bespoke service to sell Repos for ROCK BOTTOM PRICES, less a bit. I am sure you will scrape some business together...

    • 16 April 2011 11:08 AM
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    "wardy...I believe you owe it to everybody spending the time to post here, to come clean on this. Please?"

    "everybody spending the time to post" - well, that would be me, I guess.

    And I DON'T want to know. So, wardy, you have my assurance I ain't thinking for ONE SECOND that YOU are the scheming, conniving, run-for-cover-to-avoid-answering-questions-at-all-cost berk.

    I suggest that Mr Hendry invents YET ANOTHER new identity for himself. One that, THIS TIME, sums up his character perfectly...

    MR FIFTH AMENDMENT!

    (and the beauty of this, is that I can poston here as OFTEN as I want, WHAT I want - because now apparently my posts are TOTALLY INVISIBLE to the man!

    I wouldn't suggest for a single minute that he simply is too scared to re-engage for fear that I further open the chasms of lies for all to see the reality within...)

    • 16 April 2011 10:55 AM
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    Wardy (or whoever you actually are),

    If you remember, we have debated long and hard and we came to a significant point.
    I was offering to teach reliable ways of assessing current market values, based on the comparable method of valuation.
    You said there was nothing I could explain about that which you do not already know.

    I then said, would you therefore mind sharing such knowledge with me (and others). I asked you for an example of a comparable valuation that you have done. You have still NOT supplied this. Please do not continue to make excuses, play games, or try and change the subject.

    If you don't do written calculations, please say. If your valuations are just educated guesses, please admit this. If they are based on the assumed level of buyers' wealth, fine. To move forward, we need to know.

    I believe you owe it to everybody spending the time to post here, to come clean on this. Please?

    Our Nation is trapped in a state of 'blinkyism'.
    We have to begin to glimpse, first of all, that things aren't perfect.
    We have to accept 'we' ourselves are not perfect.

    IF we can accept that, 'we' (or those that now accept) can all start looking for the way to improve some of it.
    An essential part of the process is to be able to admit 'we' are not perfect and not mind having to look for the way to make things better.

    (This does, as it happens, include estate agents - not exclusively though, I hasten to add.)

    Then, we can make strides in the right direction.
    I am just hoping to help bring that day forward - especially as things are not working out so clearly in the country's housing market right now; particularly in the aftermath of the financial crash.

    Now YOU have a choice. Everybody has a choice whether to see this, or pretend that there's nothing to do, nothing to change.
    The reason why I'm bring this to everyone's attention is because I have seen, over the last 30 years, what is happening, why it's happening; and what ought to be done to stop the bad things from continuing to happen.

    If it's any help, I also admit that things are not perfect with the web facility I'm involved in right now. I'm aware that the niceness of our page design isn't slick enough to please many people. I even accept that I am not talented enough to fix that myself, without leaning more first. I might not be able to become talented enough in time - before it is too late. I ought to find somebody who wants to help, that's the real crux.

    Don't you think that you, likewise, ought to find out why the housing market is stagnating in 2011 and what could be done to overcome this?

    We ALL stand to gain from completing this exercise and you can play your part, by being forthcoming in this debate about it.

    Information about how agents do comparable valuations (specifically) was the topic under the microscope right now.

    I earnestly request for some relevant information from you, and indeed from anyone else who would like to help to take things further here.

    • 16 April 2011 08:55 AM
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    Today, Mr Hendry (totally ignoring posts from all and sundry as per usual...) posts:
    "If we don't get asking prices right, only fools will buy."

    Gimme a 'B'...

    Gimme an 'O'...

    Gimme an 'L'...

    Gimme another 'L'...

    Gimme another 'O'...

    Gimme a 'C'...

    Gimme a 'K'...

    Gimme an 'S'...

    There, Mr Hendry - I've spelled it out for you. So, by the way, have around FIFTY THOUSAND TRANSACTIONS per month.

    Now - WHO'S the fool?

    • 15 April 2011 23:47 PM
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    sold any houses today Peter?
    any new instructions today Peter?

    • 15 April 2011 19:13 PM
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    The main factor which dramatically affects house sales is the lack of activity in the housing market.

    However, if estate agents properly understood the 'mood' of the market, they could have retained a reasonable level of 'flow' by pitching asking prices nearer to the correct levels for the current market. When all's said and done, people still want to move, even in a downturn!

    Sadly, this has not been able to happen this spring owing to the out-of-date 'prices' being quoted. Everyone suffers as a direct consequence. For more details of this, please read The Property Match (UK) Blog (just Google it).

    If only accurate property valuation was better understood by all the estate agents advising people intending to sell houses up and down the UK. Things would be OK in the marketplace now and retail shops would not have seen such a great downturn either.

    In a nutshell, market price (or market value) is the sum being paid when supply and demand balance perfectly and the best place to test this is an auction selling individual houses.

    The exercise gives a clear message to all housing markets, including the UK one, and estate agents in particular, should take careful note of the numbers.

    If we don't get asking prices right, only fools will buy.

    For an indication of true current market prices (although only those in The Republic of Ireland), please see The Times web page about the property auctions which have just started taking place there.
    See: http://tinyurl.com/6zuxqp9

    • 15 April 2011 18:46 PM
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    wardy - no need at all to apologise to me, pal. I simply feel that (and I am ashamed to say it is partly MY fault...) Mr Walker's otherwise EXCELLENT blogpost has been sullied by Mr Hendry's woeful attempt (woeful attempts being his ONE constant...) to hijack it for his own end.

    WHEREVER you post, you know that Mr Hendry will ignore you - UNTIL things go quiet on other fronts, then he'll bimble back in (thanks for THAT one as well, Jonnie...) and agitate us all again.

    My guess is Monday. He'll be feeling lonely and forgotten about by then. And he MIGHT even misguidedly believe that he has licked his wounds clean enough to venture back into the fray...

    Until then, I'll keep watching - and posting any new cr@p he manages to step into with both feet. We ALL know there'll be PLENTY of that... ;o)

    Have a good weekend!

    • 15 April 2011 14:33 PM
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    Im not even single. Told you I was an a**ehole!

    • 15 April 2011 14:17 PM
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    According to some people, I'm a married b!tch so think what sort of upbringing the kids would have!!
    x

    • 15 April 2011 14:07 PM
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    sorry PeeBee went on a rant at him before i saw your post here. I shall leave it alone.
    Country Lass, Cant claim to be a gentleman but i am a single a**ehole if thats any good?

    • 15 April 2011 12:47 PM
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    PeeBee - If Hendry was being sold, you and him could never agree on a valuation! He' be thinking Rolls Royce to the property market, we'd all be thinking Del Boy's Reliant Robin with only 2 wheels.

    Then the whole argument goes full circle - discrepancies in valuing, which he is an expert on.

    Ironic that he values himself quite highley, especially with the offer of a 'seminar'. How patronising!

    Peter Hendry - Why on Earth did you offer to anser Eric's question on your own blog, but refuse when he gives you permission to answer on his?

    Your should be a politician. Yes the expenses aren't what they used to be, but your ducking, dodging and diving of facts and questions is exceptionally well suited.

    • 15 April 2011 11:43 AM
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    Country Lass: I'm here in sunny Geordieland! Never moved from the spot! You just obviously didn't look far enough...

    You'll always find me holding doors open. A bit like what I do on here - I spot an opening in a defensive wall, build a door there and hold it open for everyone to storm in!! Thankfully, Mr Hendry's walls are paper thin so he makes it easy for me.

    Imagine what would happen if I REALLY went for it!! ;o)

    wardy: I know you are reading this. Respectfully suggest that we leave Eris Walker's page out of this. I know Mr Hendry thinks he can fight on two fronts but he has proved here that he cannot. He has left his own unmanned and unanswered - although that's probably because he thinks he's got the attention of someone far more important and influential than me! Whatever... he also has decided to lock horns with someone who can buy him with one hand and sell him with the other - so I wish Mr Hendry the best of luck!

    • 15 April 2011 10:58 AM
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    He has already refused to answer mine (colour me so NOT surprised), so I've given him my theory anyway.

    Thanks for the ettiquette by the way!

    Such a lot of wonderful gentlemen on here..... Where the hell are you in real life?? ;-D

    • 14 April 2011 17:19 PM
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    Rhino - kudos, mate. It takes a lot to get coffee down MY nose - and so far only you and Jonnie have passed the test... ;o)

    • 14 April 2011 17:12 PM
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    Mr Hendry: On the subject of 'etiquette', perhaps you would therefore practice what you preach, and answer MY questions, in order, from

    * OCTOBER 2010

    * NOVEMBER 2010

    * DECEMBER 2010

    * JANUARY 2011

    * FEBRUARY 2011

    * MARCH 2011

    AND, FINALLY,

    * APRIL 2011 (raised BEFORE yours, of course...)

    and while you are on, you will then need to do the same for

    COUNTRY LASS (in further respect of etiquette, ladies before gentlemen - please answer HERS first before mine...)

    WARDY

    ACEOFSPADES

    GEORGE DAWS

    etc... etc...etc.

    (and don't forget the one that ERIC WALKER asked you on HIS 'blogspot' page, will you...)

    There's a good lad.

    • 14 April 2011 17:09 PM
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    I tried to picture Peter earlier - I can only imagine Blackadder with pants on his head - pencils up his nose saying 'wibble'.

    • 14 April 2011 16:58 PM
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    Etiquette:
    To try and deal with many burning issues I've written a lengthy piece and posted it only this morning. Its:
    Added by Peter Hendry on 2011-04-14 08:53:36

    Would those involved please comment on the substance of that first.

    I will try and deal with other people's comments when it's possible for me to. I'm thinking of:
    Dave@CW on 2011-04-14 16:13:34

    The answer would need to be a bit of a lecture, so may take some while to frame for a presentation at this blog.

    How important is this anyway in the context of the rest of our lives? I do have to wonder. We all have lives, don't we 8-)

    • 14 April 2011 16:57 PM
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    Peter - I just wanted to comment on your issue with valuation which you claim is exaggerated by Estate Agents. Hope EW doesnt mind

    Your self help valuation link is simply a list of pages to various data bases showing completed sales. Less advise - more laissez faire

    Sales prices are often determined 3-4 months before the most recent of those are recorded.

    Your Explanation for valuation.

    ____________________________________________

    "A: An estate agent's valuation is really a feeling, using their local knowledge, about how much such a property might sell for, during the next 3 months or so.

    A surveyor's valuation, on the other hand, is a written calculation made by a trained surveyor who will research actual recent sales, and compare those with the property to be valued, adjusting for differences in location, size, style, condition, and changes in the market since the date that the other property was sold."

    There is no difference other than when the valuation is undertaken. The surveyor calls into our office and asks for the comparables. An agents job is often harder. We have to predict what we may achieve, surveyors start with an agreed figure the agent has already achieved . We too research what has sold, what sales have been agreed, adjust for location, size, amenities etc. We often use price per square foot and sometimes yields as checks.
    ____________________________________________

    It hard to go in cold as an agent - but its easy for you to say "That price seems a bit high" after the event when a buyer has been found and a price reference offered.

    If surveyors are accurate, how come they never value higher than the sale price? Why - because they aren't really valuing in the true sense - i.e what price could be achieved - they are ensuring the property offers sufficient security.

    I have regularly heard surveyors comment of the LTV ratio and saying - they only need 50% - so its fine.

    Thats what in the heady days of the boom, surveyors only checked that a property existed safe in the knowledge next week, the price would be higher. Even over priced properties were safe as building societies were keen not to lose market share.

    A surveyor will want to use CURRENT information - not that which is 3 months old.

    Here is the key point. less than 5% of our prices achieved are disputed by a surveyor. Maybe we aren't so bad afterall.

    I know you wont reply - "Wrong blog" "Off Topic" or "email me directly so no one can see my answer - or so I can ignore you" which is your code for "I cant offer a rational explanation"

    In short - you are anti agent, but lack any substance or credibility.

    • 14 April 2011 16:13 PM
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    Mr Hendry: I see you have time to comment on another person's blogpost, but not your own. Try as you might, I doubt that Mr Walker will agree to your cunning ploy to plug your site by commenting here - so you might as well rejoin the party...

    ANYWAY - back to this 'value' business. You bang on about Agents appraisals need to be in line with Surveyors' valuations. Why? Which valuation? 'Market value'? Or what about Mortgage Lending Value?

    For those that are not well acquainted with this valuation model, this is how it is described in the RICS Red Book (2008):

    "There are important differences between Market Value and Mortgage Lending Value: Market Value is internationally recognised for the assessment of the value of a property at a given moment in time. It estimates the price that could be obtained for a property at the date of valuation, notwithstanding that this value could alter very rapidly and no longer be up-to-date. In contrast, the purpose of Mortgage Lending Value is to provide a long-term sustainable value, which evaluates the suitability of a property as a security for a mortgage loan independently from future market fluctuations and on a more stable basis. It provides a figure, usually below Market Value and therefore, able to absorb short-term market fluctuations whilst at the same time accurately reflecting the underlying long-term trend in the market."

    After all, a large proportion of buyers need a mortgage to purchase, do they not - and should your idea catch on, more and more FTB's will enter the market to snap up these 'affordable' homes, most of whom will be purchasing with the aid of a mortgage loan, so is MLV therefore the 'correct' value to work to, Mr Hendry? Is THAT what your seminars will teach Agents to use as their yardstick to advise sellers what to market their properties for?

    • 14 April 2011 15:31 PM
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    Mr Hendry.

    You REALLY ENJOY PAIN, don't you?

    Not only do you self-inflict - but you take even more pleasure in inflicting on others also.

    Okay - so now, in YOUR books, I am a "negatonian". I quite like that one - can't say I've been called it before, so I will add it to the list.

    Funny, that - I have often been described as "permanently positive"; "the eternal optimist"; "glass ALWAYS full" - and a host of other niceties referring to the fact that I see good in most everything.

    I repeat, MOST.

    YOU - I see nothing but bad, Sir. I am genuinely sorry to say that - but whatever you claim to be, the saviour of the home-selling process you are NOT, and NEVER WILL BE.

    Here's the PROOF - dealt by your own hand YET AGAIN.

    Below (WAAAAY below... somewhere in the four-hundred odd responses to the original 'blogpost' reproduction...), you state: "The standard method of valuation for houses, uses recently completed comparable sales.
    These need to be adjusted, for time lapse, and differences in accommodation, size, plot, location etc., to arrive at the valuation of the subject property."

    Hold that thought. Bear with me a minute.

    Now - I reproduce below my post from another EAT story to you today.

    "LAYDEES AND GENTLEMEN... allow me to introduce Mr Peter Hendry - the man who cannot lie straight in bed!

    IF you wish to proceed to Page 25 of the Archives here on EAT, and read the story dated 12 November 2010 entitled "House huinters losing interest, says NAEA", then you will see that the first post is from our dear Mr Hendry (in his second incarnation, that of "Realising Reality"). The post states:
    "Sorry, house prices depend upon a buyer's ability to buy, not a sellers dreamt-up asking price. Prices will have to correct to the buyer's levels of wealth (or lack of it)!"

    No, Mr Hendry - sorry, but they don't. You said it yourself, on your OWN, WOEFUL WEBSITE. "The currently accepted way to get a clear idea of what “market value” might be, is to look at what 'similar properties' have actually sold for in the very recent past and then to adjust for property and market differences, between that house and yours.

    This is what a professional valuers do."

    Show me WHERE, IN THE RICS RED BOOK, 'open market value' is defined as:
    "The sum yer average burger-flipper can afford to pay taking into account his outstanding student loan liability"!

    Come on, big boy - I'm waiting!!"

    So - TWO instances (there are actually DOZENS if you want me to trawl them all...) of you citing "valuation" methods yet you simply WANT PRICES DOWN, DOWN FURTHER, AND THEN DOWN AGAIN.

    Your veil of smoke and mirrors has dissapated. Your house of cards collapsed. The only thing you clutch now is your tissue of lies - and that is so sodden that it can hold no more.

    • 14 April 2011 11:15 AM
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    I have left a couple of days for those "negatonians" amongst you to comment and try and answer the groundbreaking points I am making both in my last posting and in the main article itself but it seems, to no avail.

    You have not made any comments that genuinely respond to the proposals I set down or offer any alternative, or viable proposals of your own.
    All you offer in reply are personal insults and more invective. That is nothing short of deplorable I am afraid.

    Is there anyone reading Estate Agent Today who can appropriately answer my last post, which I now reproduce again below for convenience, (with the few typing errors duly corrected)?

    If not, I maintain my suggestion that estate agents cannot value houses, and are failing to do so in the current market. I maintain that all the salient points both in the following post and in the main blog article itself, still stand.

    I've spent my whole career 'valuing' property, yet what I am getting from the estate agent sector is that you can't 'value' property :-(
    My enthusiasm and passion for the job of valuing houses, and over 30 years experience doing it, tells me those posting insulting remarks are all wrong and this gives me the courage to be so certain.

    I've considered these ideas, and discussed them with colleagues and friends, over a period of several years and this gives me added conviction about the best direction for any change to take, in the beleaguered private housing sector.

    After all the research, there would be no good allowing a bunch of 'nothing talkers' the think that they have demolished a perfectly good proposal, just by slagging it off :-]

    Please therefore, can anyone actually deal with the points I am making, and bring forward properly considered counter-arguments where appropriate, or, dare I say, accept those points that remain fundamentally unchallenged and thus proven.

    You owe it to the future of estate agency.
    -----------------

    Re-submission of previous comment (for convenience):

    Wardy, PeeBee and compatriots, you should all be ashamed of yourselves for trying to belittle genuine new ideas because you feel, in some small way threatened by a new web site which attempts to expose your unsavoury selling methods for what they really are.

    By posting the remarks you have, you are bringing estate agency into disrepute. You are using the same tactics on this blog that you might use, as estate agents, when dealing with most house buyers!

    Using your explanation of how you do market appraisals, it would seem that what you do is gauge buyers' offers, to find out how much more they might be able to afford, and then invent arguments to suggest that nearly that amount should be paid for the house that you are selling on behalf of your client! Often, your client will not even know what you are doing.
    Of course doing this would be in contravention of the Estate Agent Acts but hey ...

    You appear to say you do not 'value' houses. In fact you are instead, in the business of assessing how much individual buyers could afford to pay.

    You appear to suggest that this legitimately sets the asking prices that you put out, following doing a market appraisal. You appear to admit that these are not, in fact, objective 'valuations' of the houses themselves, with the good and bad points, compared with other recently completed house sales.


    I am basing this statement on what you have said earlier, after asking you to explain how you currently do house 'valuations'.
    Instead, you gave me your routine for doing 'market appraisals'. What you are doing for these is in no way a valuation. That is one of the fundamental issues remaining in dispute between us.

    Despite your protestations to the contrary, I AM still waiting to see your 'valuation' methodology. I am now therefore tending to think that, in fact, you don't actually have one.


    Secondly, in answer to your repeated insistence that I should just set out my valuation methods in this blog, you have no idea what they are; so how can you know whether they may simply be set down in this blog in the way you suggest? As I have already explained, the method needs to be 'taught', not just written about!

    My primary reason for proposing a new valuation method is well explained in the above blog article.

    To repeat, when an estate agent finds a buyer for a client's property, invariably that buyer will have a survey and/or a mortgage valuation carried out before confirming a definite go-ahead.

    If the valuation should differ markedly from the price already agreed, the buyer will, more often than not, wish to re-negotiate. If the difference is substantial, the chance of the deal falling through is greatly increased. The occurrence of this situation forms part of the current statistic, which suggests that up to 60% of agents instructions, fail to result in successful sales! Most would agree, that is a very high number of failures causing untold injury to those whom were unsuccessful, as well as the retail trade, removals contractors, etc., etc..

    There is no point is trying to hide behind the argument already used, that the statistic is wrong. Henry Prior, among others, including ONS, have indicated that the statistic is not only pretty accurate, but also is highly relevant.

    My proposal is to empower agents to carry out simple 'check valuations', whilst they are doing their market appraisals. By doing things that way, they would be aware of what is going to happen with that property 'further down the line' i.e. at the time when terms are provisionally agreed and a mortgage surveyor (having been instructed), has reported back. Doing this would be a step-change in the way houses are currently marketed.

    Given that I have already been trying to explain to respondents on this blog how to improve the market, by assessing asking prices at near 'actual' property values, it is clear that achieving this via the EAT blog alone has, for several reasons, proved to be too difficult.
    We are now on comment No. 424, and still are no further forward!

    What makes those adding comments here think that to carry on with the status quo is ever going to bring any improvement to what is becoming a catastrophic downturn, for the majority of those needing to move house? Without a change of heart amongst those trying to negate change, things simply cannot improve.

    I hope this answers most of the contributor's arrow-like questions, at least enough to help resolve the essential issues that confront the ever growing margins of change. I hope that those questions that remain unanswered may be considered, by most reading these pages, as trivial and / or able to be resolved merely by clear thought alone.

    I have one thing to say to those of you who have tried to evade the need to even consider changing the way houses are bought and sold and those who have tried to denounce Property match (UK) as being unnecessary and cheap. You have simply JUSTIFIED the need for such things instead.

    Careful reflection is the only friend of those who seek to change things for the better, at least until things have been finally and successfully improved.
    If you are one who wants to see an improvement to the current debacle that is the UK housing market, please reflect carefully on what has been said in all these comments, and conclude which of them are talking sense and which are not.

    • 14 April 2011 08:53 AM
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    Ahhh - mr Hendy of PropertyMatch - the worst website EVER!!

    A terrible web ranking not even registering in the UK. A bounce rate of over 57%. Average visitor visits less than 2 pages and stays for only 1min 20 seconds.

    EAT web rank - Top 160,000
    Rightmove: Top 1,098
    Property match Top 3,515,371

    So, it his charge of £60 as he claims "We offer even better value for money than e.g. Rightmove"

    No - because NO ONE WILL EVER SEE IT!!

    • 13 April 2011 15:43 PM
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    Great isnt it? At least i get to watch this pillocks dimise on a page that dosnt take so long to load.

    • 13 April 2011 12:01 PM
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    So - not only do you read Mr Walker's 'blog' story - but you post on it as well!

    You state "As on the High Street, there are also rogues on the Internet who are primarily there to make money for themselves, without offering any real service to their clients or their customers."

    HALLELUJA!!! At last it seems you ACCEPT the reality you have realised thanks to our guidance! (either that or just scored a Ratner-esque own goal...)

    Embrace the sea-change, Mr Hendry. Acceptance is the hardest part.

    • 13 April 2011 11:43 AM
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    Mr Hendry... I would invite you to read Mr Eric Walker's 'blog' reproduction on this website.

    THEN, read the comments HE attracts with HIS views on the INTERNET property market.

    No contest.

    • 13 April 2011 09:21 AM
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    Mr Hendry... I REPEAT my most recent questions to you:

    1. HOW MANY PAID-FOR ADVERTS of properties for sale are currently listed on your website; also how many were listed during 2010?

    2. HOW MANY PROPERTIES have sold AS A DIRECT RESULT of being listed on YOUR website in 2011 to date; also in 2010?

    3. HOW IS SETTING AN "OFFERS OVER" PRICE ACHIEVING ANY OF THE ABOVE, Mr Hendry? What if the "Offer Over" is viewed by the valuation Surveyor as being excessive? Can you honestly state that, as an "ex-surveyor":

    * You would sign off a mortgage valuation based upon a figure IN EXCESS of the asking price in an alleged FALLING MARKET?

    * And that, in said alleged falling market, ANY BUYER in their right mind will offer OVER an Asking Price stated on a property which is offered for sale by Private Treaty?

    4. Would you please list the "team" to which you are so fond of referring to - first names will do nicely as not to cause embarrassment (or even their nicknames if they like me, prefer that...) - and their stated "breadth of experience in the housing market"? Just so we know who and what we are actually dealing with.

    And I'll add THIS question for good measure. WHY did you leave Country Lass out of you list of those heads who would adorn the walls of your Hall of Shame? Or HD; AceofSpades; George Daws; Gourmand Gossip - and many, many others who have since you first stuck two fingers up above the parapet had the damn cheek to question YOUR WAY?

    Or, for that matter, why do you not recognise the one person who has done you FAR more damage to Mr Peter Hendry, both in your position as a 'representative' of your company and as an individual, than ALL OF THESE people put together and multiplied by a factor of one thousand. That person? Why... it is YOU, Mr Hendry.

    Realise reality!

    • 12 April 2011 17:10 PM
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    Peter, I have prevented myself from replying to this thread as I genuinely felt embarrassed for you. But here we go...

    You are missing key points. EVERYONE accepts that the property market is doing below average/ok - EVERYONE! It has been said several times refreshing and innovative ideas and changes would be embraced and most believe this is needed for the long term future of the property market.

    Now, let’s realise reality. You have failed to present one single valid point that could be classified as ‘innovative’, ‘fresh’ or even ‘not bad’ – FACT.

    You have bought nothing to the table. Yes, this site can be pretty tough going sometimes, but ALL GOOD ideas are welcomed and applauded with welcome arms.

    Not one comment has been written to support your ideas and proposals. Have you not realised that?

    My niggle with you is that you are a hypocrite. You moan about agents and their pricing, but you scrape their stock to put on your website – why put “over-priced” stock on there? Your website is mis-leading too – in fact you are trying to con the public –a) by perceiving all agents as rubbish and b) making claims such as using your site is faster than searching on Rightmove. Your site is no good.

    You have been exposed, your number is up. The only thing we want to hear about now is the Oodle set up you pass off as thousands of pounds you invested yourself – which you completely ignored.

    You also quoted before that you are doing this for free – (this is genuine like the rest of my post) could you not do some charity work instead? That would be for much greater good and earn some respect.

    • 12 April 2011 17:01 PM
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    Ahem, hem.

    Forgotten someone?

    • 12 April 2011 16:38 PM
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    well at least he didnt defend the fact hes lying about the thousands of pounds hes spend setting up a copy and paste website.
    Well done RR, we are getting somewhere.
    Why should someone pay you when the same website lists for free?

    • 12 April 2011 16:30 PM
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    Mr Hendry: The trend on EAT is if somebody has a good idea, most people embrace it, If there are silly ideas/views that get put out there, they get shot down.

    You unfortunately have been taken out with the sniper.

    I think I can quite safely say on behalf of everybody that no one is worried about your website, You haven't exactly re-invented the wheel have you?

    I have seen many a fool try and do as you are doing from behind a desk in your bedroom.

    • 12 April 2011 16:24 PM
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    Hendry: People are giving you the chance to redeem yourself, and you dig yourself deeper.

    I honestly have never seen someone so deluded. Why don't you go over to HPC, they will love you over their, probably even be able to start your own fan club.

    You are nothing but comic value to people here now, you have been for a while. You obviously love the confrontation though.

    • 12 April 2011 16:19 PM
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    Wardy, PeeBee and compatriots, you should all be ashamed of yourselves for trying to belittle genuine new ideas because you feel, in some small way threatened by a new web site which attempts to expose your unsavoury selling methods for what they really are.

    By posting the remarks you have, you are bringing estate agency into disrepute. You are using the same tactics on this blog that you might use, as estate agents, when dealing with most house buyers!

    Using you explanation of how you do market appraisals, it would seem that what you do is gauge buyers' offers, to find out how much more they might be able to afford, and then invent arguments to suggest that nearly that amount should be paid for the house that you are selling on behalf of your client! Often, your client will not even know what you are doing.
    Of course doing this would be in contravention of the Estate Agent Acts but hey ...

    You appear to say you do not 'value' houses. In fact you are instead, in the business of assessing how much individual buyers could afford to pay.

    You appear to suggest that this legitimately sets the asking prices that you put out, following doing a market appraisal. You appear to admit that these are not, in fact, objective 'valuations' of the houses themselves, with the good and bad points, compared with other recently completed house sales.


    I am basing this statement on what you have said earlier, after asking you to explain how you currently do house 'valuations'.
    Instead, you gave me your routine for doing 'market appraisals'. What you are doing for these is in no way a valuation. That is one of the fundamental issues remaining in dispute between us.

    Despite your protestations to the contrary, I AM still waiting to see your 'valuation' methodology. I am now therefore tending to think that, in fact, you don't actually have one.


    Secondly, in answer to your repeated insistence that I should just set out my valuation methods in this blog, you have no idea what they are; so how can you know whether they may simply be set down in this blog in the way you suggest? As I have already explained, the method needs to be 'taught', not just written about!

    My primary reason for proposing a new valuation method is well explained the above blog article.

    To repeat, when an estate agent finds a buyer for a client's property, invariably that buyer will have a survey and/or a mortgage valuation carried out before confirming a definite go-ahead.

    If the valuation should differ markedly from the price already agreed, the buyer will, more often than not, wish to re-negotiate. If the difference is substantial, the chance of the deal falling through is greatly increased. The occurrence of this situation forms part of the current statistic, which suggests that up to 60% of agents instructions, fail to result in successful sales! Most would agree, that is a very high number of failures causing untold injury to those whom were unsuccessful, as well as the retail trade, removals contractors, etc., etc..

    There no point is trying to hide behind the argument already used, that the statistic is wrong. Henry Prior, among others, including ONS, have indicated that the statistic is not only pretty accurate, but also is highly relevant.

    My proposal is to empower agents to carry out simple 'check valuations', whilst they are doing their market appraisals. By doing things that way, they would be aware of what is going to happen with that property 'further down the line' i.e. at the time when terms are provisionally agreed and a mortgage surveyor (having been instructed), has reported back. Doing this would be a step-change in the way houses are currently marketed.

    Given that I have already been trying to explain to respondents on this blog how to improve the market, by assessing asking prices at near 'actual' property values, it is clear that achieving this via the EAT blog alone has, for several reasons, proved to be too difficult.
    We are now on reply No. 396, and still are no further forward!

    What makes those adding comments here think that to carry on with the status quo is ever going to bring any improvement to what is becoming a catastrophic downturn, for the majority of those needing to move house? Without a change of heart amongst those trying to negate change. It simply cannot.

    I hope this answers most of the contributor's arrow-like questions, at least enough to help resolve the essential issues that confront the ever growing margins of change. I hope that those questions that remain unanswered may be considered, by most reading these pages, as trivial and / or able to be resolved merely by clear thought alone.

    I have one thing to say to those of you who have tried to evade the need to even consider changing the way houses are bought and sold and those who have tried to denounce Property match (UK) as being unnecessary and cheap. You have simply JUSTIFIED the need for such things instead.

    Careful reflection is the only friend of those who seek to change things for the better, at least until things have been finally and successfully resolved.
    If you are one who wants to see an improvement upon the current debacle that is the UK housing market, please reflect carefully on what has been said in all these comments, and conclude which of them are talking sense and which are not.

    • 12 April 2011 16:06 PM
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    Hang on PeeBee....
    this gets better.
    You can go direct to oodle and place a private sellers add for....wait for it....FREE!
    Ironically this very same add gets displayed on property match because it uses oodle as its engine.
    Whats the £35 for then hendry?

    What a genius.

    • 12 April 2011 15:03 PM
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    My Team consists of

    Peter Hendry
    Property Match
    Realising Reality
    Straight Tlkr
    Major Something

    Oh no, thats my alter egos, im all confused, I thought that was my team. damn

    • 12 April 2011 14:59 PM
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    Mr Hendry. I've had an idea. This storyline is getting awfully cluttered; it is taking an age to load now.

    HOW ABOUT we carry this on on YOUR BLOG?

    After all, you describe your blog as:
    "This is where you get to say whatever you want to – about all property-related issues."
    and
    "Please give us your thoughts:-
    Someone important may read them and actually do something about what you have to say. :)
    Its time to enhance communication and understanding, with everyone, freely."

    That way, EVERBODY can see, without any miscommunication, what is being said by all.

    You see, Mr Hendry, you are an ONLINE BUSINESS. You shun face-to-face contact with your clientele; you clearly believe it is unneccessary (or simply don't want it...).

    You state on your website "Property Match (UK) is a genuine business Internet facility..." Therefore, Mr Hendry, you should be able to deal with EVERY ASPECT of your business online. Complaints: handled online. Queries: handled online. SO WHY DO YOU HAVE SUCH A PROBLEM WITH OUR QUERIES, AND WANT TO MEET WITH US?

    You also state on your website "The team that developed Property-Match (UK) have a breadth of experience in the housing market and unlike most estate agents, this includes having supplied professional mortgage valuations as well as having run estate agent’s offices. We have used our technical skills to create this web site." Additionally, on this site, you often refer to your "team" as well.

    For the record, Mr Hendry, would you please list the "team" - first names will do nicely as not to cause embarrassment (or even their nicknames if they like me, prefer that...) - and their stated "breadth of experience in the housing market"? Just so we know who and what we are actually dealing with. Nothing I haven't answered personally, so shouldn't give you a problem there...

    Many thanks.

    • 12 April 2011 14:44 PM
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    right, some of you may find this interesting.
    The data property Match displays comes from a website called oodle. Oodle is a classified add site predominantly for the US. Here's the interesting bit. If you want to add oodles search facility into what ever crappy landing page you want you simply copy and paste a small bit of code supplied direct from oodles developer page.
    And so.
    1, RR cant tell us where he is getting his out of date data because he doesn’t know.
    2, RR reckons that his website 'spiders'! Utter nonsence.
    'There is probably no web site around other than Property Match (UK) that’s so good at finding what's available as ours, because we've spent thousands setting up the systems for doing that very thing.'

    So some more B***l S**T from RR. I can get the very same thing from Oodle for FREE. Thousands of pounds my A**E!

    Have you ever typed a true word in your life hendry?

    http://developer.oodle.com/

    • 12 April 2011 14:25 PM
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    You would think that making it up as he goes along with over 400 posts he would get something right.

    • 12 April 2011 13:57 PM
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    Mr Hendry - you state: "HD and PeeBee,
    It's not about what I could do for MYSELF, unlike your motivation obviously."

    HD - I will leave you to ask your own questions on this. This applies purely to me...

    Mr Hendry. I am NOT, for the 'n'th time of stating this, an Estate Agent. I am ANONYMOUS, unlike yourself (although you alluded to be for several months behind veils more flimsy than your motives...). I therefor ask you WHAT is my "obvious motivation"? WHAT AM I DOING HERE FOR MYSELF?

    You then go on to state: "At Property Match we hoping to stop people from placing wildly excessive prices against the houses they may wish to sell, by levying a small charge from them as they place their adverts. We believe this may focus their minds whilst also attracting only genuine sellers in the first place."

    BALDERDASH, Sir. Utter, unadulterated NONSENSE. You charge purely and simply to make money. How on earth do you hope - or expect - to deter overpricing by "levying a small charge"?

    You are becoming a parody of a parody, Sir. Your comedy of errors is now a comedy of terrors - and I don't know how deep you are going to dig the vast hole you have already sunk yourself into.

    I repeat my earlier words in the hope that they eventually sink in:

    Mr Hendry... you've TOTALLY lost the plot.

    Realise reality.

    • 12 April 2011 13:36 PM
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    I swore I wouldn't do this....

    Peter, you have issues with the EA insudtry and I think I may have an inkling of ehy, but I need the answers to some simple questions to determine if I am right? Would you care to oblige?

    1) You worked in EA previously, correct?
    2) May I enquire as to your age? An age bracket will be fine.
    3)Could I ask the time that you worked in EA? In years, eg 2004-2011

    • 12 April 2011 13:25 PM
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    Mr Hednry: We sold 76% of our stock last year, which is above industry norm, I would love this to be higher of course.

    But heres something that you may find interesting, you say that by 'Property Match' charging a small fee of £35 it will deter people from posting on your site at over excessive prices. NO IT WON'T.

    When we take an instrcution on, we take a marketing fee x10 of what you are charging. Offset against a fee if they sell, non re-fundable if they pull it from the market.

    So within my % that didn't sell, I did have people that have wild ideas, also people whos circumstance changed.

    My point being though, that charging any upfront fee will still not deter them doing what they want.

    Also in response to your post, of course I want a better market, We already help a lot of people move each year and we would like to help a lot more move.

    I am only a mere small tadpole in this game, but we have never had a compaint from the ombudsman, we contribute over 300 Sales a year and yes we do make money, strange that though, considering we are a business.

    Its sites like yours, and other cheapo sites that will make the market worse, letting all those greedy vendors run riot, as aposed to us agents that manage our clients expectations.

    • 12 April 2011 13:24 PM
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    PeeBee, I really think, if you can't figure this out, we should meet. It would be fun for both, I assure you.

    Good, now that's all settled, we'll move on to The Most Important Topic coming up:
    Be patient for a tad longer please ...

    • 12 April 2011 13:24 PM
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    You state: "Aaaghh! How much clearer can I be??? I'll try and explain this to you.

    The web site I manage is different from things like Rightmove."

    JEEEEZ... YOU GOT THAT RIGHT! I agree ONE THOUSAND PERCENT there - for a THOUSAND REASONS - NONE of which I am certain you would like me or anyone else to go in to!

    You also state: "We, instead do two entirely separate things.
    1. We plan to 'show' adverts from all these avenues, including all estate agency platforms by utilising a search engine that continually 'spiders' the whole web for house adverts.
    2. We allow private clients of ours (which may include estate agents, if they want) to pay for the placement of a house advert on the web but this would be stabled on our own database (instead of , for example Rightmove's database)."

    Oh - so much clearer. In that case, please tell your adoring audience:

    HOW MANY PAID-FOR ADVERTS of properties for sale are currently listed on your website; also how many were listed during 2010?

    HOW MANY PROPERTIES have sold AS A DIRECT RESULT of being listed on YOUR website in 2011 to date; also in 2010?

    Lastly, you state "On the misunderstanding about the 'offers over' position, I am at a loss to be able to explain this any better - sorry."

    Okay - let me spell out what I am saying so that you can swallow it better. YOUR EXPLANATION of the above to me was "Our current advice to our private clients is to price conservatively but ask for offers over…

    That way they will pick up any interest out there yet not put people off by asking an unrealistic figure."

    HOWEVER, from the body of the original 'blog' (I prefer to call it free plug, seeing as you have linked in from EVERY POSSIBLE AVENUE...), you state "The best thing for them to do is to learn how to value houses just as a surveyor would. It is reasonably simple to do and would give agents a pretty good fix on what price will materialise, when the mortgage valuer actually does come round to value the house that they have just sold subject to contract. Asking prices should bear these factors in mind, if they are to prove to be meaningful price guides."

    HOW IS SETTING AN "OFFERS OVER" PRICE ACHIEVING ANY OF THE ABOVE, Mr Hendry? What if the "Offer Over" is viewed by the valuation Surveyor as being excessive? Can you honestly state that, as an "ex-surveyor":

    * You would sign off a mortgage valuation based upon a figure IN EXCESS of the asking price in an alleged FALLING MARKET?

    * And that, in said alleged falling market, ANY BUYER in their right mind will offer OVER an Asking Price stated on a property which is offered for sale by Private Treaty?

    Look forward to your responses...

    • 12 April 2011 13:11 PM
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    HD and PeeBee,
    It's not about what I could do for MYSELF, unlike your motivation obviously.

    I'm more interested in helping others. I'm about finding ways to improve the hopelessly sagging housing market and to bring THESE ideas to the market.

    Unfortunately for you, the problem as I see it, clearly lies with the way houses are marketed by estate agents.

    Whilst some may well have earned themselves fat profits and paid themselves some pretty fat bonuses too, that is NOT what I want to achieve. That's why I am not doing that.

    To be perfectly straight, or brutally blunt, the problem for the housing market IS: estate agents (and how they make their money whilst NOT helping a very large number of unsuccessful sellers in the process).

    At Property Match we hoping to stop people from placing wildly excessive prices against the houses they may wish to sell, by levying a small charge from them as they place their adverts. We believe this may focus their minds whilst also attracting only genuine sellers in the first place.

    I hope this answers you questions sufficiently clearly.

    I'm sorry it is estate agents that are at fault here as far as i can see using the many years of experience I possess. If you can come up with a different reason for the extraordinary current stagnation in the UK housing market, I shall be all ears and would recommend you to start a new blog at EAT.

    • 12 April 2011 12:59 PM
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    Realising Reality on 2011-03-15 19:11:24 :

    "Just to put the record straight, for the benefit of any practicing estate agents reading this, I've nothing against you personally or professionally.

    My aspiration is to try and help you as a group, using the 30+ years of experience I've amassed in the residential property sector."

    Peter Hendry on 2011-04-12 12:08:37 :

    "Finally, my recent blog publication on The Property Match Blog is categorically blaming estate agents for an increased loss of sales in retailing at a time of year when house sales would normally be picking up."

    WOW!! I'd hate to see what you had written if you DID have an axe to grind with Agents...

    • 12 April 2011 12:44 PM
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    I have just read Mr Hendry' latest blog, and honestly, WTF.

    A copied news title on a piece of news bought out today, and then another repitiive rant.

    Mr Hendry, I know you are not going to let us in on your 'informative secret methods and tools of getting properties on the correct price'.

    Heres a question to you; If you have all the answers and can persuade vendors to market correctly', why haven't you set up 'Peter Hendry Estates', getting out their into vendors homes and doing the business, thus selling lots of homes and earning £000's per transaction.

    Instead of, creating a list your own site, which allows all those greedy vendors to market their properties way off the market.

    When you get the first customer, and they want to stick it on £60,000 over what its worth, are you going to allow them to post the property or stop them?

    • 12 April 2011 12:26 PM
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    Dear PeeBee,
    Aaaghh! How much clearer can I be??? I'll try and explain this to you.

    The web site I manage is different from things like Rightmove. The latter only carries house adverts of estate agents who pay to have them on there. It won't carry private house adverts, even if people were prepared to pay for them, because it promises all estate agents it will not do that.

    Another site, Zoopla. That carries anyone's house adverts for free, whether estate agent placed, or not, but it doesn't show house adverts carried by other sites like Globtrix, and many other estate agency sites.

    We, instead do two entirely separate things.
    1. We plan to 'show' adverts from all these avenues, including all estate agency platforms by utilising a search engine that continually 'spiders' the whole web for house adverts.
    2. We allow private clients of ours (which may include estate agents, if they want) to pay for the placement of a house advert on the web but this would be stabled on our own database (instead of , for example Rightmove's database).

    These must be pre-paid to go online with us, and we manage these adverts to see that they don't remain live after they have become irrelevant.
    Most other sites simply don't remove out of date adverts, leaving that task to the person who initially placed the. Ofter these people simply forget or don't keep a proper paper-trail of what they have placed online.

    I don't ink I can go into any more detail about this on this blog, as it simply is not relevant. If you should need more, please login to our Contact Us page and ask away.

    On the misunderstanding about the 'offers over' position, I am at a loss to be able to explain this any better - sorry.
    I think you are the only one clattering on about this, so again, by all means Contact Us separately. It really should be easy to follow it. There are no peculiarities. no smoke and mirrors, you're just imagining these matey.

    Out web site is perfectly open, perfectly straightforward.

    Finally, my recent blog publication on The Property Match Blog is categorically blaming estate agents for an increased loss of sales in retailing at a time of year when house sales would normally be picking up.

    I hope some of it resonates with some of you agents out there.

    • 12 April 2011 12:08 PM
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    Firstly, I am sure you will have realised the previous comment was mine...

    Secondly, could you PLEASE (try THAT as a tactic...) answer me why today, your own Blog entry is entitled "The reason why shops are experiencing the worst fall in sales since The BRC started doing monthly surveys, in 1996", yet it is not until the last sentence of the ELEVENTH PARAGRAPH that you slip in "Removals contractors, solicitors, shops all loose. In fact the whole economy suffers unnecessarily." The preceeding SIX HUNDRED AND THIRTY-NINE words (title excluded...) relate to yet another rant about YOUR OPINION that Estate Agents 'misvalue' property.

    Mr Hendry... you've TOTALLY lost the plot.

    Realise reality.

    • 12 April 2011 11:51 AM
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    Mr Hendry: here we go again on the Hendry Magic Roundabout.

    You state: "When we say 'advertising material we carry', we mean just that. All the advertising material we carry is PAID-for advertising. The other advertising visible on our site is simply from using the mirror of our search engine to see what else is out there - on the Internet. Savvy that?"

    NO. Please explain further. In English - for the benefit of your adoring readers...

    THEN, you state: "...here are a couple of answers to earlier misnomers you've tabled." You then go on to state:

    "Added by PeeBee on 2011-04-07 15:05:15

    Hmmm... so let me get this straight:

    WHATEVER the market, price OVER what you will accept.

    ANS:
    No, again PeeBee, you haven't understood at all.

    Our current advice to our private clients is to price conservatively but ask for offers over…

    That way they will pick up any interest out there yet not put people off by asking an unrealistic figure.

    The skilful bit is to be able to negotiate effectively.

    When prices are rising, it's normal to ask slightly more than current market price because by the time you will have sold, prices will have risen further. If you price at current value in a rising market, you will probably loose out.

    The reverse is true in a falling market - obviously. That's the reason we advise the reverse.

    Note: This advice is for private clients, not estate agents who go about things in a rather different manner, as we all know."

    Let me REITERATE MY ORIGINAL COMMENT, MR HENDRY. THIS TIME, DON'T IGNORE THE REAL ISSUE!

    From your website: "Our current advice remains, price it to sell - now.
    Don't price it in the hope of better times to come.

    Here's a tip you may not have heard before - because its our idea!

    In a rising market:
    Price your house for sale, slightly above market value, and accept a reduction to conclude a sale, if you can't get the full asking price after about 3 months.

    In a falling market:
    Price your house for sale, notably below market value, and be prepared to negotiate with those who are interested in buying, to obtain the highest offer available and aim to conclude a sale within 3 months."

    Hmmm... so let me get this straight:

    WHATEVER the market, price OVER what you will accept.

    When the market is GOOD, be prepared to DROP.

    When the market is BAD - undercut what you SHOULD GET, then be prepared to DROP FURTHER.

    "We suggest you say ‘Offers over’ on your asking price. ‘Guide price’ suggests you’re not really sure!"

    Hang on - "Offers Over"? Why - when you are clearly saying set your price then negotiate UNDER IT? And, in a good market, you advocate asking OVER the 'real' price already! So is that called "Offers Over OVER"?

    Would you like this in pictorial form, to see if THAT sinks in? Bar charts, maybe? Excel format?

    Whatever, I am already well aware that your answer will be in pure, unadulterated BS...

    • 12 April 2011 11:37 AM
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    Wardy, Troll of the Year. The man with no I.D., :D
    The Big Question for you:
    As an active estate agent, do you know of any measures which estate agents, as the largest group involved in the selling of houses in the UK, have put, or are putting, into place to protect the public from any more price surges like those that occurred in the housing market following the banking crisis in 2008, (just 3 years ago)?

    I'm thinking of something along the lines of The Independent Commission on Banking, led by Sir John Vickers.

    Alternatively, do you think that house prices should just find their own levels; led by estate agents asking prices?

    • 12 April 2011 09:57 AM
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    PeeBee,
    You are obviously not too familiar with Property Match (UK) and are missing the point.

    When we say 'advertising material we carry', we mean just that. All the advertising material we carry is PAID-for advertising. The other advertising visible on our site is simply from using the mirror of our search engine to see what else is out there - on the Internet. Savvy that?

    Whilst writing PeeBee, here are a couple of answers to earlier misnomers you've tabled.

    Houses and Bentleys are not the same thing and they each perform very differently.
    Trust me I know this from personal experience, even if you don't :D


    Added by PeeBee on 2011-04-07 15:05:15

    Hmmm... so let me get this straight:

    WHATEVER the market, price OVER what you will accept.

    ANS:
    No, again PeeBee, you haven't understood at all.

    Our current advice to our private clients is to price conservatively but ask for offers over…

    That way they will pick up any interest out there yet not put people off by asking an unrealistic figure.

    The skilful bit is to be able to negotiate effectively.

    When prices are rising, it's normal to ask slightly more than current market price because by the time you will have sold, prices will have risen further. If you price at current value in a rising market, you will probably loose out.

    The reverse is true in a falling market - obviously. That's the reason we advise the reverse.

    Note: This advice is for private clients, not estate agents who go about things in a rather different manner, as we all know.

    Hope this helps.

    • 12 April 2011 09:49 AM
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    LAYDEES AND GENTLEMEN - WELCOME TO THE CONFUSED WORLD OF MR PETER HENDRY:

    Fron his last comment: "The Internet is FULL of free adverts.
    I'm not suggesting that our site is going to try and filter them all out. That would be crazy.
    I am merely say that we at Property Match (UK) don't want to ADD to the C**P that is already festering away online. However, that said, if it's there we WILL display it.
    Trust this explains."

    From his website: "Another important reason justifying a small initial charge is so that we can be sure that all the advertising material we carry is not only genuine but is current. This is vital if any service of this kind is to prove useful in the long run."

    Oh, dear. Left hand not remembering what the left hand typed last week...

    • 11 April 2011 23:27 PM
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    Wardy, the super-Troll !
    Will you EVER get it? I, for one, hope so.
    Night O'L

    • 11 April 2011 18:52 PM
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    Well PeeBee,
    To help you in your continued confusion. The Internet is FULL of free adverts.
    I'm not suggesting that our site is going to try and filter them all out. That would be crazy.
    I am merely say that we at Property Match (UK) don't want to ADD to the C**P that is already festering away online. However, that said, if it's there we WILL display it.
    Trust this explains.

    • 11 April 2011 18:50 PM
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    well, I've had enough. Peter, your stupidity knows no bounds. you are truly a moron.

    • 11 April 2011 18:31 PM
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    Mr Hendry: you say to wardy...
    "There you go, pr***ing about, inserting free ads here and different free ads there, swanning about, forgetting what you've posted out there and when or where!"

    You THEN state: "It's the same with the Internet. That's why our site does not offer to put FREE house adverts online. Is the penny beginning to drop?"

    So - here's my question. IF you are publishing old, incorrect information that wardy (and others...) have listed on FREE SITES, which have found their way onto YOUR SITE, doesn't that therefore mean that you are displaying FREE HOUSE ADVERTS, completely contradicting your own words?

    • 11 April 2011 18:08 PM
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    Wardy,
    Just in case you didn't understand that, I meant:
    THE WHOLE INTERNET!

    So we're doing YOU a favour by informing you of what you forgot to remove from being 'live' online.

    Our bill for this may very well follow.

    • 11 April 2011 18:05 PM
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    THE INTERNET

    • 11 April 2011 17:59 PM
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    trust me, if I thought anybody was looking at your pathetic attempt at a portal I would do. The point I am making is that your a hypocrite.
    where do you scrape your data?

    • 11 April 2011 17:57 PM
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    Wardy, Wardy, Wardy.
    You take the biscuit, and the bone!

    If you're really bothered to correct this issue, but don't know how to yourself, just do everyone a favour and let Property Match (UK) know what data you think is old, where you posted it, when and who is the author of the information. If you don't know some of this. just admit it. Do something, don't just moan. We're kind. We just want to help.

    If you're not bothered to do this, please do us all a favour and stop wasting everyone's time reading about it.

    • 11 April 2011 17:42 PM
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    You utter clown. You are scraping old data. Funny how righmove and all the other portals (including my own website) have the correct data isnt it you jerk.

    • 11 April 2011 17:27 PM
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    Wardy,
    the one who says I'm still selling houses but is …
    Staggeringly ignorant about - market forces.
    Staggeringly ignorant about - what else makes the housing market function.
    Staggeringly ignorant about - negotiating fairly and squarely.
    Staggeringly ignorant about - helping people to do, well just about anything really unless it suits YOU.

    I've got some home truths for you, me old china (you are probably just like him anyway). 'It's people like you who manage to mess up Utopia.'
    It's people like you who manage to spoil things like the Internet, for example too.
    There you go, pr***ing about, inserting free ads here and different free ads there, swanning about, forgetting what you've posted out there and when or where!

    Then, one day you sell a house for someone, or have to reduce it's price, or correct some vital piece of description that was probably wrong in the first place.
    But Oh No, you have to be anonymous so that when things go completely pear-shaped and you've totally c**ked up, you can walk away and pretend someone else did it!!!

    Now, let me talk in plain English.
    If you put a message in a bottle and throw it into the ocean, one day it may be found in say, Fuerteventura!
    Now if you had said in the message that you hated nudists and given your address and phone number, you might end up getting a pretty rude call from a complete stranger one day.

    It's the same with the Internet. That's why our site does not offer to put FREE house adverts online. Is the penny beginning to drop?

    If YOU don't manage what you've put online, YOU cause the problem.
    I've tried to explain this before, but I've got a sore head from banging it against the proverbial Brick W**l.

    The fact that our web site is able to find such a pathetically small fragment, floating out there in the ultimate, is pretty amazing - a feather in our own caps to be placed by our own digital finger(s), as people like you wouldn't even know what side to place it on.

    There is probably no web site around other than Property Match (UK) thats so good at finding what's available as ours, because we've spent thousands setting up the systems for doing that very thing. So, all I am saying is "Clear up after you, matey boy". "Lean to wash you hands when you've done, there's a good lad".

    Alternatively, please do us all favour. If you do find someone else littering Cyberspace, in the way I am describing you are now, do the decent thing. Ask THEM to clear up, just as I am asking you to do that now. They will probably thank you for it when they realise what they are doing wrong, if they're nice people that is.

    When you've sorted you mess out, let me know. That is if you can remember your own smelly old paper-trail. If you can't, be man enough to admit it, there's a good agent.

    Sorry everyone else. It's got to be said.

    • 11 April 2011 16:58 PM
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    and there you have it RR. If your going to ponce data aleast make an effort to get right.

    • 11 April 2011 14:34 PM
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    Quite a bit of my stuff is out of date too, and we update everyday.

    Also searched my local areas we cover, and as I have a keen eye on everything that comes and goes with all the agents, there is quite a bit of stuff that is still on their that came off market for one reason or another over 6 months ago.

    • 11 April 2011 14:27 PM
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    'My response, for the World is; If you leave out-of-date information on the Internet, people will carry on finding it. So. take off your out of date information and stop dropping virtual litter online. '

    All my data is up to date. I suggest having a look at where you scrape the data from, I would think its scraping every 6 months or so instead of dailey. That’s why it’s out of date. The above statement goes to show what an actual pleb you are. So now you admit your content is online litter? I agree with you there, it is.
    Where do you get your data from?

    • 11 April 2011 14:18 PM
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    Well PeeBee, we do agree on something :)
    I agree with being happy in whatever you choose to do.

    Maybe in being happy, those that can, may make others happier too.

    • 11 April 2011 13:45 PM
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    Mr Hendry: who says I won't - at some point?

    Today, I am where I am happy where I am; doing what I do. I was previously happy in similar roles for over a dozen years. I then decided to follow the path into Agency - where I remained, in one form or another, for almost fifteen years. For the great majority of those (ESPECIALLY during my time as a Residential Agency Manager) I was equally as happy. I left for personal reasons:

    NOT because the market changed

    NOT because I was unhappy

    NOT because I needed to

    but because I wanted to - simple as that.

    I am still 100% involved in the property industry on a day-in, day-out basis - just not in Agency - the details are irrelevant. If anything, my current position is LESS secure in the current climate than I would ever have been in Agency. It also pays substantially less than I was earning in Agency, or what I could currently command with another company.

    But I am happy; and that, to me, is EVERYTHING.

    • 11 April 2011 13:19 PM
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    FROM AN EXAMPLE VALUATION REPORT on a Chartered Surveyor's company website, therefore public realm:

    Entitled: "Residential Valuation Report
    “A professional opinion on the value of a property for a specified purpose.”

    "Client’s instructions:
    To prepare an open market Residential Valuation Report. The valuation is to be on the basis of a three month completed sale."

    "Our normal basis of valuation in the current market would allow for a six to eight month period to completion. Our figures have therefore been adjusted downwards to reflect this reduced time span.
    We consider that based on achieving a three month completion the property has a market value of £85,000 (Eighty Five Thousand Pounds).
    On a normal valuation base of six to eight months to completion we would consider the current market value to be £95,000 (Ninety five thousand pounds).
    We would expect the property to be marketed at £99,950 to attract offers.
    (The valuation is defined in the attached Terms and Conditions)."

    Ts&Cs:
    "Aims
    This type of report expresses our opinion on the value of a property taking into account your specified purpose for the valuation. It is important that the named client who relies on the valuation knows why it is written. The report will therefore say what the purpose of the valuation is, as will our letter which confirms your instructions.
    Unless you ask us for a different basis of valuation, we assume that you want to know the “Market Value” (MV) of the property as set out in the definition given by the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS Appraisal & Valuation Standards) and which is as follows:
    “The estimated amount for which a property should exchange on the date of valuation, between a willing buyer and a willing seller in an arm's-length transaction after proper marketing wherein the parties had each acted knowledgeably, prudently and without compulsion”.

    Oh - and lastly...:
    "If you obtain a Building Survey or any other report about the condition of the property or its structure, please show it to our Valuer. Such a report may result in an alteration to our valuation."

    SO MUCH FOR YOUR 'VALUATION', Mr Hendry...

    • 11 April 2011 12:54 PM
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    I meant the last but one post is SPOT ON |.-)

    Wardy,
    "You are listing property for sale that I sold last year. Fact"
    ANS:
    Then have the guts to identify it, and disclose who you really are?

    My response, for the World is; If you leave out-of-date information on the Internet, people will carry on finding it. So. take off your out of date information and stop dropping virtual litter online.

    • 11 April 2011 12:52 PM
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    The last post is SPOT ON |.-)

    Could someone (even if Wardy won't) please answer the detailed post I made just this morning on 2011-04-11 07:55:57?
    Then, I'll answer more of you miscellaneous and tauntingly silly questions. However, for the record folks, I'm not a Chartered Surveyor, any more that PeeBee is an estate agent.
    I felt things weren't at high enough a standard when I left. May I enquire of PeeBee why, in all honesty, did he leave his job as an estate agent, and not return?

    • 11 April 2011 12:47 PM
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    'This is the very place to come, to bravely challenge where no man has dared to challenge before …'

    Good job nobodies taking you seriously then isn’t it.
    btw, nice try getting me to point you in the direction of your (my) false data, I guess you REALLY want to know who I am. You’ll just have to trust me, its wrong. So far 3 agents have pointed that out including Country Lass.
    You are listing property for sale that I sold last year. Fact

    • 11 April 2011 12:44 PM
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    Mr Hendry is not concerned, he has the 'tools', to make a change

    • 11 April 2011 11:44 AM
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    Thanks, Country Lass. Mr Hendry always bangs on about comparable evidence.

    It seems, Mr Hendry, that your ex co-professionals are as (un)reliable as ever, across the entire country.

    I would also add repossession valuations to the debate. WHY does it need TWO Chartered Surveyors to independently value? Using your logic, ONE will suffice as they ALL VALUE EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.

    Where does THAT leave your argument; does it not deflate the ENTIRE REASONING behind your alleged 'solution' to what YOU perceive to be the ills of the market?

    • 11 April 2011 11:41 AM
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    Just to site an example for you PeeBee, we had a survey in today. Property fell through a few weeks ago due to a high retention on the mortgage, but the property was not downvalued. We resold and another survey was done, by a different person. It was downvalued by over £25k!

    Yeah, surveyors are all-knowing about property....

    • 11 April 2011 11:28 AM
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    Hmmm...

    "Just think all this hard work, typing away, linking back to EAT. I bet it hasn’t won you a single instruction has it?
    ANS:
    Maybe not, yet. But you mark my words, it surely will."

    Don't say I didn't say so...

    ANOTHER small piece of the Hendry (poorly) hidden agenda admitted!

    • 11 April 2011 10:58 AM
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    wardy - forgive me from jumping in on Mr Hendry's response to you. He's ignoring me, but nevertheless I am committing this to screen in order to further question Mr Hendry's grasp on the reality of an industry that he has, in his eyes, served so well that he professes he can now steer to a new and better dimension ("...at an attractive cost per individual...").

    Mr Hendry: You say "What has become clear, to me (during this long uncomfortable diatribe), is that the way surveyors 'value' houses and the way estate do 'market appraisals' are completely and utterly different."

    WOW! 30-odd years in the business and you figure this out IN THE PAST TWO WEEKS of painful cyber-slapping of your cyber-cheeks! Where have you been all these years to have NOT realised the most BASIC of principles?

    You should be thanking us for pointing you in the direction of the light... and WE don't want a PENNY from YOU!

    OF COURSE IT IS DIFFERENT! An Estate Agent, acting correctly, should suggest a marketing price that will attract interest from a number of interested parties in order that negotiations can determine the selling price.

    A surveyor's 'valuations' (as you know, Mr Hendry, there are SEVERAL 'valuations' that a Chartered Surveyor can place upon a property), depend ENTIRELY upon the purpose for which it is required and can (and do...) vary wildly.

    I have had many experiences over the years (and if ANYONE else was posting here I am sure they would agree...) of two surveyors placing VERY DIFFERENT 'valuations' on the same property within DAYS of each other. Perhaps you would care to explain THAT?

    You then say: "As I am sure you will have gathered, I am saying "The prices of houses put on the market should be based on the 'house in question', NOT on the perceived size of the richest buyers' pockets".

    You will, no doubt, be taking the above argument to your local Bentley dealership, as I am sure you would rather be swanning around in a Continental than a Mondeo, or whatever "retired surveyors" clog the roads up in these days...?

    • 11 April 2011 10:50 AM
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    Wardy,
    "No your website does not link to my material. My data is displayed in high res at correct prices. Yours does not. Yet again you have skipped point that the data you have is inaccurate and out of date.
    ANS:
    I don't believe you. If you know this, please contact US directly and identify what data you are referring to.

    "I find it strangely convenient that your mission is to bring asking prices down to values.
    ANS:
    Asking prices and values should alway be closely related, don't you know.

    "Let’s face it, that’s your aim. We all know why you want that. Without agents pushing to get the best price, without agents marketing property to high standards and without agents negotiating better deals for there clients that leaves the door open websites such as yours. That is your aim, just admit it.
    ANS:
    Without agents gerrymandering prices and deceiving buyers at every turn, even in the photos they take of the property beige sold, the housing market would have coped far better in the present economic difficulties. It would have done this by allowing those selling to use asking prices that more closely resemble what house 'values' really are, instead of the prices mooted by some agents keen to bolster their ever-dwindling stock of houses to sell; by competing with each other whilst misrepresenting the facts at take-on time, just to win that instruction.

    "We will always disagree. You think a couple of pictures on an internet site can sell houses. Myself and every single agent on here that you have decided to s**g off knows different. You do not have the first idea.
    ANS:
    Yes, I absolutely disagree with this, on both counts.

    "If you really had the housing market at heart (like I do) you would not come here to a industry website trying to pick a fight. Criticising the industry is hardly the best way of opening discussions with said industry.
    ANS:
    This is the very place to come, to bravely challenge where no man has dared to challenge before …

    "Just think all this hard work, typing away, linking back to EAT. I bet it hasn’t won you a single instruction has it?
    ANS:
    Maybe not, yet. But you mark my words, it surely will.

    • 11 April 2011 10:43 AM
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    No your website does not link to my material. My data is displayed in high res at correct prices. Yours does not. Yet again you have skipped point that the data you have is inaccurate and out of date.
    I find it strangely convenient that your mission is to bring asking prices down to values. Let’s face it, that’s your aim. We all know why you want that. Without agents pushing to get the best price, without agents marketing property to high standards and without agents negotiating better deals for there clients that leaves the door open websites such as yours. That is your aim, just admit it.
    We will always disagree. You think a couple of pictures on an internet site can sell houses. Myself and every single agent on here that you have decided to s**g off knows different. You do not have the first idea.
    If you really had the housing market at heart (like I do) you would not come here to a industry website trying to pick a fight. Criticising the industry is hardly the best way of opening discussions with said industry.
    Just think all this hard work, typing away, linking back to EAT. I bet it hasn’t won you a single instruction has it?
    .

    • 11 April 2011 09:53 AM
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    Wardy,
    What has become clear, to me (during this long uncomfortable diatribe), is that the way surveyors 'value' houses and the way estate do 'market appraisals' are completely and utterly different.
    Yet, in essence, they are supposed to be talking about exactly the same thing - as far as most buyers and sellers are concerned anyway! That is, to suggest the price which each house should sell for.

    To me, it suggests that agents and surveyors should confer and come up with a common standard, if we want to help the market to function better than it is.
    To me, if they did confer, the market, and the people involved in it, as whole, would benefit very significantly.

    Unfortunately, what seems to happen whenever anyone (like me) comes up with a positive suggestion (like this), it's mostly the people with negative responses that comment - especially when they can easily do so without revealing who they actually are to anyone reading their posts.

    As I am sure you will have gathered, I am saying "The prices of houses put on the market should be based on the 'house in question', NOT on the perceived size of the richest buyers' pockets". However, based on what you have written, you insist on deciding asking prices depending almost entirely upon the size of the richest buyers' pockets, as you explained earlier.

    I would like to say, fact-to-face, why, in my opinion, it would be better to change this and then teach you the methods needed, including showing you which tools you would need to employ to do this, and why.
    I would, of course, also like to listen to your views and the reasons behind them and discuss these. I am most interested in finalising a jointly-agreed way of advising all estate agents of the best way to improve, how the housing market currently functions.

    Whatever you remain sceptical about, surely we can at least agree that IMPROVEMENTS ARE NEEDED in the ways houses are currently bought and sold across England, Wales and Northern Ireland?

    One of the paragraphs in the above article I wrote says:
    The best thing is to learn how to value houses just as a surveyor would. It is reasonably simple to do and would give agents a pretty good fix on what price will materialise, when the mortgage valuer actually does come round to value the house that they have just sold subject to contract. Asking prices should bear these factors in mind, if they are to prove to be meaningful price guides.
    Sorry but no-one can seriously argue there is nothing in such a proposition. After all these lengthy postings, we still don't have any consensus opinion involving change, coming out of it. This strongly suggests that it's time to have a meeting and to find another way to move forward, though probably not a seminar as proposed earlier. That's probably one step too far at this stage, so just a general meeting. Clearly if those blogging genuinely feel they have a case to argue, even if it is for the status quo, they should be prepared to meet, be human, and discuss it face-to-face. The Internet simply can't achieve that, as I think several of you have quite rightly pointed out in connection with dealing with house sales negotiations etc., by using online shops like the one I work at. The EAT blog is no different!

    On the subject of Property Match, which you raise yet again, I want to re-state my previous answer about using material posted online:
    This web site only reflects what is 'out there' on the Internet. If anyone puts information on the internet, it may be linked to freely. That is what the Internet is. Surely we can agree that? Property Match acts as a central location for people to search for houses on. Unlike Rightmove, it returns pages showing both privately advertised houses and agent advertised ones, so it doesn't discriminate. Zoopla and other portals do something similar but they accept free house advertising whereas we do not accept this direct. We are therefore unique.

    As I have said before, we aim to comply with all laws. If there is anything you truly think is unlawful, we would wish to discuss this with you at the first opportunity and you should contact us directly about that, using the web site. You have not done so to date, which suggests to us that you have accepted the situation.

    Another thing I should emphasise though, is that for as long as your small group keeps ganging-up and peddling derision and confusion, people are hardly going to volunteer to side with my positive ideas, since by doing so they also would fall fowl of your destructive, invective and verbal bombardments!

    • 11 April 2011 07:55 AM
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    Awww... cat got yer tongue, Mr Hendry?

    OR is it that you have FINALLY clicked on the reaslisation that EVERY TIME you post something, the internet community can see for itself that the content is PURE FABRICATION?

    • 10 April 2011 10:26 AM
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    Mr Hendry: You say "Wardy, no answer? …

    "Mate - I'm not asking you to then have a pop at YOU, okay!"

    I'm saying this to you Wardy. Yes the phrase is usually posted by PeeBee but this time. I'm saying it."

    So this is a usual phrase of mine, is it, Mr Hendry. Sorry - I seem to have misplaced it. Please help me out here and show me WHERE I have EVER used that phrase; to WHOM I used it; WHY I may have used it; and WHAT was the result.

    I CAN'T WAIT...

    • 08 April 2011 13:10 PM
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    I have known Robert for over 10 years, he wouldn't be posting on here if this wasn't something he is passionate about.
    Robert will be trying to get this bloke to see he is wrong and why he is wrong. His style is a bit like a Samaritan, he asks questions so you work out the answer for yourself.
    I’ve read a few of the posts in this mammoth thread and none of you are getting anywhere. I don’t think any of you can have read the blog, it doesn’t say anything.
    Blog matey says you need new tools but doesn’t say what those tools are. There IS only one question; as Wardy asks “What tools?”

    • 08 April 2011 12:36 PM
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    Peter Hendry in last post, 07.49am 8 April:

    "I want to say that the only reason I am on this site, is that I want to help the house-marketing sector in this country."

    Peter Hendry on Twitter 10.15 am 8 April:

    "Surely estate agents who are in fact retailing houses, ought to know (pretty closely) what prices they SHOULD be selling them at But do they"

    Big "help", Mr Hendry. I am certain you have the eternal gratitude of "the house-marketing sector".

    FURTHER PROOF that you cannot even lie straight in bed!

    YOU HAVEN'T GOT THE SLIGHTEST INKLING WHAT "TRUTH" IS, HAVE YOU?

    • 08 April 2011 12:20 PM
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    Mr Hendry: You ask wardy "If you don't like what I am proposing, why reply."

    I can't answer for him, or any of the others who have posted their concerns on this site for the past six months or so over your rantings - but here is MY reply to to that question.

    1. To stay silent would be seen by YOU as agreement or at least, acceptance, of your "proposals". You are THAT kind of person.

    2. I have a RIGHT OF FREE SPEECH. I intend to use it as long as it is mine. Now I know that you aren't keen on certain LAWS - the Estate Agents Act being one of them, as you want to change it TO SUIT YOUR PURPOSE - but the last time I checked there was an elected Government (albeit in two halves...) in power who decide which Laws come; go; and are amended. What WAS the result of your petition, by the way...? It closed on 10 June last year, so when should we expect the Law to change?

    3. I TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY, DISAGREE with virtually every word you write. Do I think the property market is a perfect place? NO. Do I think all Estate Agents are 100% squeaky clean? NO. Do I think that things COULD be better? YES.

    BUT NOT YOUR WAY, Mr Hendry. Not by a county mile.

    According to your last splatter of typewritten fertiliser on our screens "I want to say that the only reason I am on this site, is that I want to help the house-marketing sector in this country. I am voluntarily spending my time posting to this end." Of course you WANT to say that - because the TRUTH is not so humble; so caring; so magnanimous, is it? You ARE on this site because it gets traffic. YOU ARE PIGGYBACKING - linking YOUR woeful excuse for a sell-by-owner site to THIS ONE left, right and centre. You have links to Estate Agent Today ALL OVER your Facebook page; on your woeful "Blog" page - you even HAD them ALL OVER your Tw@tter page, but I see they have been removed...

    You are nothing more than a SPAMMER, Mr Hendry. You are using EAT to get your rubbish site MORE TRAFFIC. You should leave it to the little filippino boys - they at least don't RILE EVERYONE in their spamming duties.

    The question is, WHEN ARE YOUGOING TO WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE? Your spamming exercise has FAILED MISERABLY. You have NO NEW LISTINGS as a result; vendors will undoubtedly think you are BARKING; the only people who seem to like and agree with what you say, Mr Hendry, are the HPC brigade. I wonder why...

    You often refer to your "team". Let us, for the purposes of this response, say you actually DO have a "team" working with/for/alongside you. Whilst I am sure that they don't want to upset you, they DO need to earn money, I assume. I put to you, Mr Hendry, that YOU are COSTING YOUR SITE BUSINESS with your "proposals"; your steadfast REFUSAL to answer questions that VENDORS, as well as AGENTS need to know the answers to, thereby giving no other option for them but to make their own assumptions; and your general behaviour including likening the property market to a Red Arrows display, and to an orchestra. WHO were you trying to kid there, Mr Hendry? Although, I must state for the record that you display FAR MORE KNOWLEDGE of both subjects than the one you seem to want to monopolise...

    Anyway, that is MY right to free speech over, than you. Let's see if wardy has other reasons. I think it is just us now - even "anon" has deserted our side-game of charades while you dreamt up your next chaotic response.

    And Robert is still giving you the benefit of the doubt.

    Wonder how long THAT lasts...?

    • 08 April 2011 10:23 AM
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    You want to know why I dislike you?
    Like I said in my post you seem keen to tar all agents with the same brush and chose to comment on a part of our job that under scrutiny you actually know very little about.
    Secondly, your contribution to the housing market as far as I can see is a website that scraps its data. You use my data and display it in a manner that was not intended for your own gains. You have the cheek to tell me how to do my job whilst piggy backing my instructions to fill your website with content.
    Thirdly the very same data you ponce of me is out of date and incorrect. A man who is preaching about the difference between asking prices and sold prices, himself lists property at incorrect prices. FACT.
    You are a hypocrite and your agenda is nothing more to tarnish the reputation of agents further for your own gains.
    I don’t see you as threat RR. Bigger and better people than you have tried private sellers websites and failed. You think your being cleaver, new and innovating. Trust me your not.

    • 08 April 2011 10:20 AM
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    @Wardy.
    Look Wardy, I want to say something to you directly but you won't allow me to do so privately as you refuse to supply me with your name, phone number or email address.

    I want to say that the only reason I am on this site, is that I want to help the house-marketing sector in this country. I am voluntarily spending my time posting to this end.
    Why are you posting on this blog? No one is forcing you to do so. If you don't like what I am proposing, why reply. What makes you want to be publicly abusive and try to demoralise me. Is it just in your nature? Is it something I've done? Is it some combination of these, but why are you 'really' here posting negative stuff on a blog that you say is rubbish anyway?

    I would like an honest answer.

    I've looked back at your earlier postings about market appraisals and it is clear that how I propose they should be done in the future is totally different, totally new.
    The way you say these should be done is just the way they are currently done.

    I've already said that to you in the clearest way I can, but you seem to have ignored this. Why?

    There is a need for those interested to meet, to hear and discuss each other's views about this; if those participating in this online discussion want to further the efficiency of house marketing. And Yes, I am saying that I have new ideas and that I want to present them to those who may be interested in making the market flow better.

    Now if you, and others, prefer to think that I, who do not currently practice as an estate agent, could not possibly have any ideas that may be of any interest to you, you don't need to respond. I'm not making you respond. I'm not making you try to belittle me or be abusive in public. Why do you want to do such a thing? With what object?

    Here's an 'extract' from your post: wardy on 2011-03-17 15:10:33
    What buyers are prepared to spend is has EVERYTHING to do with house prices. I would not value a house at £100,000 when 10 buyers registered will pay £200,000 for that type.

    MY ANSWER: THIS is clearly where the problem lies, and why the markets have become SO confused. You should not be getting increased offers from buyers based on the fact that you know they CAN make them.

    Your reply:
    I’m sorry I don’t understand your point.

    NO, you don't understand my point. More importantly, IF you are sincerely interested in knowing how to improve house marketing, we need to meet but you WOULD need to be prepared to listen.

    Your post on 2011-03-17 13:35:25 explains briefly what you currently do when doing a market appraisal, but my experience tells me this is insufficient, on many counts, and needs fundamental revision.

    There is however, no point in me dragging anyone to a seminar if they have closed minds and are not interested in examining the advantages of change, or incorporating 'new' ideas into an existing malfunctioning regime. I have NO wish to do that.

    Only people with a genuine wish to consider new alternatives need apply. You, and any of your compatriots who are simply blogging here to try and unseat my arguments, need not attend. No problem.

    It's over to everyone reading this blog, which is all about how to improve the way house-marketing works. They are the ones that must decide whether to embrace change, or not.

    • 08 April 2011 07:49 AM
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    Oh sorry RR, You will be pleased to know i dont sit here looking at a computer all day waiting for the next 'hendry dribble' to reply to.
    Try scrolling down the page you tool.

    • 07 April 2011 20:20 PM
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    Wardy, no answer? …

    "Mate - I'm not asking you to then have a pop at YOU, okay!"

    I'm saying this to you Wardy. Yes the phrase is usually posted by PeeBee but this time. I'm saying it.

    The main difference is that when I'm saying it, I mean it. You won't be criticised by me for what you explain, in answer to my earlier question.

    I'm more interested in learning how you do things and how things are currently done by others in general.

    • 07 April 2011 19:21 PM
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    No, come on Wardy, you have not yet given us your method, be honest. Do it now. Do it again now, if you prefer!

    The whole point I am making is that you guys selling houses, have no proper method of valuing 'anything', do you.
    In you cases it's just MEGA gut reaction. If I am wrong, please enlighten me now.

    If I am not wrong, please come to my suggested seminar, and be prepared to actually listen for once, and learn. It will be worth every penny.
    If you find you know so much about this subject that I have nothing to show you, well, you will at least have reassured yourself that you are, indeed; the top dog.
    If that is the case, you would still have the opportunity to ridicule me in public, as well as feel you're the absolute beans!!

    But for now, I'm still waiting for you to open up and explain the science behind finding correct asking prices to advise clients to ask.
    If you can, you will be right, ther would be no point in organising a seminar to explain this - job done? I am waiting to know.

    • 07 April 2011 18:11 PM
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    "BTW: Did anyone notice the 'fairly obvious' mistake in my blog article?"

    Yeah - it was published!

    It's no good holding my nose there is tea coming out my ears and tear ducts!

    • 07 April 2011 18:00 PM
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    Is there any truth that you can dry tea out of a digital keyboard by leaving it in rice overnight?
    Thanks to Wardy I have snorted tea down my nose and into the keyboard!

    • 07 April 2011 17:53 PM
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    @Peebee. I have asked two direct and fair questions of Peter which relate to how sites like his and Tepilo can fairly sit alongside traditional Estate Agency where Agents give away an awful lot of free time, advice and service to folk who without moral or conscience will use it for free, I am interested to hear from Peter who has a boot in both camps

    My point to Peter, which hardly warrants a separate debate, would be that maybe if agents a started charging for valuations advertisements, advice, letters and portal presence etc. then the quality of the profession could indeed be raised. Qualified staff receiving professional wages and respect is something that I would love to see.

    • 07 April 2011 17:31 PM
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    Are you nuts? I’ve done that twice now. I even gave you a suggested price for your own home.
    When exactly did I dismiss your explanation of valuing? come along lets hear it! That is what everybody has been asking. I say again.
    WHAT TOOLS?
    Now your just trying to bulls**t your way out of this.
    A retired surveyor telling me I need training. Well I’m sorry peter, one of us runs a successful estate agency business and the other sits around in his slippers desperately hoping some mug will pay him £35 quid to appear on a sorry looking website. I'll stick with what I know thanks.

    Funny, I spelt out the answer to your problem and you are still to stupid to see it. I wonder where someone like you would sit in an industry that was regulated. Probably retired (again)

    Funny, I spelt out the answer to your problem and you are still to stupid to see it. I wonder where someone like you would sit in an industry that was regulated. Proberly retired (again)

    • 07 April 2011 17:01 PM
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    "BTW: Did anyone notice the 'fairly obvious' mistake in my blog article?"

    Yeah - it was published!

    OTHER THAN THAT... here you go again picking up on SOMEONE ELSE'S work without checking it for yourself. Why? Cos it suits you to use the figures quoted - that's why.

    Read the responses to Mr Pryor's 'blog' entry, Mr Hendry. Read them good.

    NOTHING is what it appears, Mr Hendry. And YOU, of all, should be WELL aware of the famed quote regarding statistics...

    HOWEVER, Mr Hendry, this takes us back to a question posed several times to you by several individuals.

    PLEASE TELL US, of the listings to your site in the last twelve months, WHAT PERCENTAGE SOLD AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THAT LISTING?

    • 07 April 2011 17:00 PM
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    76% of our stock sold last year. I must be doing something wrong

    • 07 April 2011 16:57 PM
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    wardy, mate - not my call, but if it were ME, I'd be offering him a place on MY course at an attractive (to ME...) cost price! ;o)

    • 07 April 2011 16:47 PM
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    BTW: Did anyone notice the 'fairly obvious' mistake in my blog article?

    "It almost seems as if estate agents simply do not care that over-pricing is a major contributing factor to the 40% of sellers whose houses will fail to sell at all this year" - should read 60% of sellers whose houses will fail to sell at all this year! Yes, 60% of those placing houses for sale, fail to sell them. That's the information currently available using the statistics. Though the statistics are not absolutely precise, they are a pretty good guide to what's happening. If around 60% of 'failed' sales doesn't suggest there's a need for improvement in the methods used to determine asking price, what, if you please, does?

    • 07 April 2011 16:46 PM
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    @Wardy, you keep missing the point, real the message I am sending out. Mr Bigman, you need the tuition, probably even more than your juniors. Only someone like me could dare to utter such a suggestion to your face, well online but in full public view anyway.

    Lets talk facts. You dismissed my earlier offer to explain my valuation techniques in brief, on these pages, saying my methods would not even be worth publishing.
    I then (swallowing my pride somewhat) asked if you would be willing to outline your way of doing a 'valuation' for a take-on but you totally bottled out of it!

    So, I'll now ask you once again, if the full glare of this debate, please outline how you work out the asking price to quote, based on recent comparable evidence that you may have?
    Pretty simple question for one so high up and successful. You say it's simple yourself. You say it would not take tutorial to explain. Fine then, explain please - for the benefit of all these avid readers (me included).

    Let's face it the object of these blogs it for us to all learn things from each other?

    • 07 April 2011 16:23 PM
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    wardy: Mr Hendry says " I'm not answering you separately."

    WELCOME TO THE CLUB, mate! ;o)

    Robert: mark my words - YOU'LL be next...

    • 07 April 2011 15:15 PM
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    You want to bring that mournful website that looks like its been coded by a five year old back into the discussion? why?
    Any ideas I have had about marketing, I use. Trust me they are very very different to yours and if you think I’m going to turn over years and years of ideas, development and beta testing over to you because you asked for them think again. Like I said before. You are a nobody.
    PeeBee is right you know. Every single person on here already knows the answers to the questions they are asking you. The reason you are being asked is because the very same people know that you cant answer them.
    You have been continually mocked on this forum from post 1 and still you maintain an 'everybody is wrong and I’m right' mentality.
    Now for once and for all just read and accept.
    Yes there are agents that over value. This is a problem. It’s mostly a problem for those agents. They over value win the instruction then cant sell it. They have spent money marketing a property and have no return. The agents that do this don’t tend to last long. With business sense like that we can all see why. They are rouge agents Peter and those that earn no money either go bust or set up online only agencies. To be honest I love it. We get the properties the second time round when the seller is more motivated than ever at a more reasonable price. That is the way of it.
    The answer to the problem that only you are shouting about has been staring you in the face all this time and I have not seen you suggest it once.
    If you came on here and your argument was 'agents need regulating and there vals should be subject to scrutiny’ then you would have a lot more credit than you hold currently. I may even agree with you. But as it is you have decided to tar everybody with the same brush in your holier than thou approach.
    If a seller is willing to instruct an agent at an inflated price based on zero evidence then that’s up to them I don’t want them on my books anyway. If (and this happens to be the case more often than you think) the seller has there own expectations and wont listen to an agents val then they can always come to you and market at whatever price they like.

    • 07 April 2011 15:09 PM
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    To wardy you say: "Now get out!! (or come to my seminar)."

    To Robert May (the ONE person who has given you a far-tto fair crack of the whip so far...) you say: "I don't know where you get the odd notion that I am constantly fighting my way out of a tight corner. Your dreams, maybe?"

    To me: "Yet again you have the 'nerve' to come back to this blog,...once agin, it's time you left this debate."

    Oh, dear, Mr Hendry. We ARE getting your knickers in a twist, aren't we?

    YOU say: "Despite all the rhetoric on this extensive column, the fact remains that estate agents' market appraisals are still generally too far out of line with real 'sold' prices, by an unacceptably high margin. The statistic clearly show that. Anyone who tries to dispute that is a fool." THE statistic you refer to, Mr Hendry - would THAT be the differential between the ASKING PRICE of 27 Acacia Avenue, and the SOLD PRICE of 27 Acacia Avenue? Call me a fool (among all the other words chaotically flapping around in that void between your ears...) but I dispute THE statistic. Let every Agent who cares to do so produce ONE recent example of a property that has sold through their Agency within the last twelve weeks at a figure as near as possible to the LR average sold price. Let them state how much it was ORIGINALLY placed on the market for. We will then be able to gauge what THE statistic is in REALITY (remember that word, Mr Hendry?).

    Now - to your "valuation model".

    "Our current advice remains, price it to sell - now.
    Don't price it in the hope of better times to come.

    Here's a tip you may not have heard before - because its our idea!

    In a rising market:
    Price your house for sale, slightly above market value, and accept a reduction to conclude a sale, if you can't get the full asking price after about 3 months.

    In a falling market:
    Price your house for sale, notably below market value, and be prepared to negotiate with those who are interested in buying, to obtain the highest offer available and aim to conclude a sale within 3 months."

    Hmmm... so let me get this straight:

    WHATEVER the market, price OVER what you will accept.

    When the market is GOOD, be prepared to DROP.

    When the market is BAD - undercut what you SHOULD GET, then be prepared to DROP FURTHER.

    "We suggest you say ‘Offers over’ on your asking price. ‘Guide price’ suggests you’re not really sure!"

    Hang on - "Offers Over"? Why - when you are clearly saying set your price then negotiate UNDER IT? And, in a good market, you advocate asking OVER the 'real' price already! So is that called "Offers Over OVER"?

    Thanks for the advice. I think I'll continue blindly with my Agents' recommendations as a guide, if it's all the same with you...

    I'll leave you to think of some more names to call me - "troll", "divisive" and "fool" don't hurt me in the slightest, Mr Hendry.

    • 07 April 2011 15:05 PM
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    @Wardy. You're obviously transfixed by something. Please read my reply to Robert. I'm not answering you separately.

    • 07 April 2011 14:56 PM
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    Peter you can see why I am rubish at debates, I always say things that get interpreted the wrong way by someone.

    • 07 April 2011 14:37 PM
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    get out and answer your questions?

    • 07 April 2011 13:57 PM
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    Robert, I don't know where you get the odd notion that I am constantly fighting my way out of a tight corner. Your dreams, maybe?
    Also, there's no "very neat side step" as you put it. I was just agreeing that your idea sounded a good one and you should start a separate debate about it if you think so too.

    Back to what I was saying before, to try and add to what I've already said in a very long blog, whilst trying not to repeat myself …

    Who amongst all you estate agents ever thinks about helping others? Helping buyers to buy whilst also helping sellers to sell?
    Are there any agents out there who think that doing this would, in fact, be providing a first rate service to your sector of the UK's economy?
    How many agents may think this is an idea worth pursuing and by doing so, might help to get the housing market flowing better?


    Despite all the rhetoric on this extensive column, the fact remains that estate agents' market appraisals are still generally too far out of line with real 'sold' prices, by an unacceptably high margin. The statistic clearly show that. Anyone who tries to dispute that is a fool.

    The only way to address this is for estate agents themselves to re-appraise how they conduct their market appraisals, when touting for more houses to sell.

    To re-phase this for you (on the off-chance that this may help) estate agents are getting things badly wrong, and have been for rather a long time. The only way for them to correct this is to listen to some careful explanations, specifically tailored for them.

    In my experience, house owners generally, do not suffer from quite the same level of misunderstandings, as my web site explains.

    To be fair to estate agents though, you are in a slightly more complicated situation than that of the owner's themselves. For that reason, it is 'a tad' easier to for you to go wrong when doing appraisals for prospective clients.

    Definitions of market value you or Peebee are not familiar with - oh dear, then you definitely need the day-course. And, no. It's not accredited.

    It would be me, presenting what is a specialist matter, using the not inconsiderable experience I have in assessing current market value of a wide variety of different house-types. I make no pretence about hiding behind certificates, I give no warranties and, for the avoidance of any possible confusion, do not propose to gain 'ISO' approvals etc. before offering such a tutorial. Just 'experience', 30+ years of the stuff. If you guys, who obviously have sussed that you don't understand what I am saying about how to value property, nevertheless aren't interested in getting a session together, then all I can say is, it's your loss.

    Robert, to attempt to answer your further questions, without the luxury of having you in the room, surely estate agents, who are in fact retailing houses, ought to know (pretty closely) what prices they should be selling them at, but CLEARLY they don't.

    Agents who don't explain to clients properly, i.e. explain to those who think they are selling at the right price, they are in fact selling at the wrong price - (too high), with the result that the client then fails to sell at all, are doing a gross DIS-service to their very own clients.

    The thing is nowadays, those selling or retailing ANYTHING for a living, ought to know how much to ask for it!
    People don't go into shops to find that the prices are all over the place and have to negotiate hard on some purchases and not at all on others! They have to with houses though.

    Those clients, who are UNrealistic about asking prices are not well served by their agents if the latter are not advising them properly on the 'correct' price to ask.

    I know you guys don't want to hear this but agents need to 'go back to school', in these regards. You DO need new tools for your toolkits.

    I can provide these using my long term experience, if you may be interested. That's what I am saying. However, I am also saying, free things have no intrinsic value, that is why they are free. Sadly that includes your supposed market appraisals. Notice, I'm not offering my advice 'free', incase that has escaped your attention.


    THE HENDRY MOTIVATION:
    Let me be clear, I AM listening out for new ideas for resolving the current difficulties within the housing market, not just using my own ones, but let me be equally clear, the status quo, as you appear to be suggesting, is NOT an option. That's because current market performance is DAMAGED and needs some clever, new, innovative, ideas to aid its swift recovery - without delay, I would suggest.

    Estate agents play a key part in market performance and thus cannot and should not escape scrutiny, whilst we should all be actively looking for the best ways to improve market's waning performance.

    • 07 April 2011 13:43 PM
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    @Wardy. Come on then, we might as well get it out in the open.
    Your outburst last saturday is indicative of another curious but overwhelming dislike of the 'small' web site that I work for.

    Yet, your mates keep telling me that anyone who advertises with Property Match (UK) will never be seen on the web and therefore it won't ever catch on. If that is true, then why are you so bothered about it please?

    Why also, are you so opposed to even discussing any changes to the way houses are currently marketed and why, as a successful estate agent, haven't you thought of some improvements of your own, despite the obvious difficulties which the housing market is currently facing?

    All I can think of to say is, you're behaviour is reminiscent of the Goon Show. Now get out!! (or come to my seminar).

    • 07 April 2011 13:42 PM
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    "Yet again you have the 'nerve' to come back to this blog, asking supposedly clever questions but with the TRUE intention of further disrupting positive development on here."

    Au contraire, Mr Hendry. My WHOLE PURPOSE is to produce something positive from this. That way, I can provide a suitable response to your request/demand for me to produce "examples of positive proposals to improve estate agency that you have independently made, in the fairly recent past."

    Oh, yes, I have "nerve" - PLENTY OF IT. And as far as I am aware your plan to overrule the Freedom of Speech Act has not yet been accepted by theelected Government, so I will use what little time I have left to good advantage, thank you.

    Mine were not "supposedly clever questions" at all. Perfectly normal, in my opinion; perfectly valid; and mores to the point NEED ANSWERING! (I will assume, naturally - based upon past experience of not only my own but that of every other poster on here, that they will remain unanswered...)

    "I can see through your mask even if some may not be able to, especially as you have had to admit that you are not a practicing estate agent."

    You are to the written word like a clown is to balloons, Mr Hendry. You attempt to stretch, twist, and any other form of manipulation in your VERY limited armoury anything that in your narrow mind will give you a fingerhold on weakening the credibility of one who opposes your thinkings. Allow me YET AGAIN to burst your latest flimsy balloon. I have NEVER purported to be an Estate Agent - since day one on this site, almost two years ago, I have referred to myself as an ex-Agent. I left Agency in 2007 to resume my original vocation within the property industry. My interest here is in the CONCERT; NOT THE CONDUCTORS OR ORCHESTRA. Call me a stagehand, if you like. Without a score; without a conductor or an orchestra, I have no purpose being at the Concert Hall. If I see something that I believe will spoil the play, then I object against it. IF the Conductor, the orchestra, and audience can assure me that the concert will proceed uncompromised, then so be it; I will sit back and enjoy the show along with everyone else.

    "Are you now seriously expecting everyone, including me, to believe that you want to know the answers to 'these' questions when it is patently clear that if a seminar was to be set up, you would not be prepared to show your face there and unmask?"

    WHY would I attend your "seminar" - apart from for novelty value? Repeat - I AM NOT AN ESTATE AGENT! I don not NEED to know how to "value" properties for sale "The Hendry Way" - and if I did, I have read your "full instructions" on your website so now I am "qualified" by definition, aren't I??

    "In fact to anyone with average intelligence, most of the answers to your questions are reasonably self-evident."

    Trust me, Mr Hendry - EVERYONE already knows the answers to the questions.

    We just want to hear YOUR answers...

    "You are the troll, not me. You are just being divisive."

    Please check your "definitions". I am neither - you just don't like the fact that I - that you say know nothing; and EVERYONE ELSE who should know everything, being practicing Agents - don't agree with you. Tough. Grow a set and accept that the sun shines from above and not from a dark place within your corduroy trousers!

    So, Mr Hendry, I respectfully suggest you get your facts right - and straighten up your own story while you are about it.

    • 07 April 2011 13:01 PM
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    Give him time to answer Wardy.

    Peter is more likely to answer if he is not constantly fighting his way out of a tight corner.

    • 07 April 2011 11:57 AM
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    Exactly Robert. The very same question he has been asked countless times. WHAT TOOLS?. I expect this information is being omitted due to the fact that RR (property guru) is planning to charge people for this nonsense. Either that or he simply doesn’t know.
    Which is it?

    • 07 April 2011 11:27 AM
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    That is a very neat side step Peter and possibly one that will get jumped on as you avoiding a reasonable question in our own micro debate.

    I am keen to find out how two people with roughly the same experience of the same industry can have such polarised opinions about the same subject which is essentially how to value property for marketing with the aim of a sale.

    My viewpoint is that Agents are managing to advise on value and achieve sales in market conditions that have been re-invented in the past 3 years. Per your blog you have said “there is an urgent need for estate agents to add new tools to their toolkit, in the present market conditions” but didn’t go on to say what those new tools are in words that I can understand.

    This is probably me being a bit thick but I know of 6 valuation methods, the 5 standard ones plus a bespoke one that combines elements of each of the others plus a twist, yet I cannot make head or tale of what you are recommending agents do.
    Agents advise on a marketing figure to attract viewings and a sale. Surveyors advise lenders and purchasers on comparative value. Per your blog if agents valued like surveyors i.e. with the interest of the lender and purchaser in mind, that is a system that will only work if purchasers were not allowed to haggle and vendors were not allowed to want the best price for their home.

    • 07 April 2011 10:53 AM
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    Ok, im going to do you yet another favor.
    You are invited to a training day at wardy estates. On this day you will learn the following.

    Dealing with the public.
    On and off line marketing.
    Presenting the company to potential vendors.
    Selling techniques.
    Market appraisals.
    Managing client expectations.
    THE ESTATE AGENCY ACT 1979
    Sales progression.
    Negotiation skills
    and much much more. As I understand it you have little to no experience in any of the above so a day with us will surely be a great asset to you seeing as your setting up your own 'tutorials'. Don’t worry about the cost, I’m going to get my junior neg to do it. He already knows infinitely more about the property market than you do.

    • 07 April 2011 09:23 AM
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    Mr Hendry: I was going to write a long old essay but couldn't be bothered.

    Thanks for the offer, but I think your aiming at the wrong audience. I never once had any one to one mentoring, I was thrown in at the deep end when I started doing Market Appriasals and i loved it.

    15 Years later and still selling lots of properties for lots of happy customers.

    • 07 April 2011 09:09 AM
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    @PeeBee. Yet again you have the 'nerve' to come back to this blog, asking supposedly clever questions but with the TRUE intention of further disrupting positive development on here.

    I can see through your mask even if some may not be able to, especially as you have had to admit that you are not a practicing estate agent. Only the other day I invited you to a face-to-face discussion to iron out all the incidental issues you seem to have, but you categorically refused my offer - giving no plausible reason. You have also made it clear that you protect your anonymity and shall not be prepared to unmask yourself under any circumstances.

    Are you now seriously expecting everyone, including me, to believe that you want to know the answers to 'these' questions when it is patently clear that if a seminar was to be set up, you would not be prepared to show your face there and unmask?

    Well I'm not gullible enough to be led by your innocent-sounding questions, into thinking I should provide you with answers, thus setting off more red herrings in this debate. In fact to anyone with average intelligence, most of the answers to your questions are reasonably self-evident.

    You don't respond to gentlemanly request to stop doing this. You are the troll, not me. You are just being divisive. Please not I am not angry when I say this but remain perfectly calm and rational when repeating , once agin, it's time you left this debate.

    • 07 April 2011 08:57 AM
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    Robert, I happen to think that would be well worth debating. How about you running this by Rosalind and perhaps doing a short article?

    • 07 April 2011 08:56 AM
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    "PS: I have nothing to say in response to Messrs PeeBee and Wardy."

    Awwww...diddums.

    Funny how you have PLENTY to say when it appears I am your ONLY audience, Mr Hendry...

    When you're ready - I will be here. Watching; waiting.

    IN THE MEANTIME, here's one for you to ponder. maybe someone else other han wardy or I could ask it so that you would honour your audience with a response:

    WHY would it be necessary for experienced Estate Agents, who will have carried out several; dozens; hundreds, or even thousands of appraisals on properties in their patches to attend one of your modestly-priced but non-accredited courses, when on YOUR WEBSITE there is a page entitled "Do your own: house valuation: accurately in any market conditions" (subtitled "Find the correct asking price every time) upon which you recommend to homeowners who have NO training; NO experience, the methodology to adopt to price their own property?

    Your own words, Mr Hendry - "Professional valuers do market appraisals, or valuations, by using comparison-sales information which, until recently, used to be confidential. This information is now publicly available online, so you can do valuations yourself."

    Kind of dilutes the standing of YOUR old bunch, doesn't it, Mr Hendry? A binman; burger flipper,; a hairdresser, all performing "valuations" on YOUR say-so?

    Oh - and If someone DOES ask you the above question, would they also please ask you WHERE the definitions you refer to for
    "Definition of the term:- Valuation" and
    "...the definition of Market value."

    I ASSUME these are recognised "definitions"??

    • 06 April 2011 21:05 PM
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    Thank for the reply Peter,

    While some of the selling public will respect the value of an Agent's time and experience most won't. What do you think of the idea of Agents/ Portals making a charge for valuations/ appraisals.?

    If agents routinely charged professional rates for their time rather than giving most things away for free. Wouldn't only the "worth the money agents/portals" survive?

    • 06 April 2011 19:17 PM
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    Robert,
    I do not normally comment on things that are alleged to have been done on other web sites but at Property Match (UK), we would certainly not recommend our clients to use free market appraisals obtained from local estate agents. Instead we give our clients sufficient information for them do do their own market appraisals or house valuations.

    Normally, I would have suggested to HD that you estate agents might be able to use the same instructions as these but alas, with all the strange comments I'm getting from some of you, I currently feel that the best method for conveying this information to you guys would be in a one-to-one tutorial session.

    Hope this helps.

    PS: I have nothing to say in response to Messrs PeeBee and Wardy.

    • 06 April 2011 18:45 PM
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    Ha!..........And so the truth will out!

    What a cretin.

    • 06 April 2011 12:08 PM
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    "I would be pleased to put such a course together at an attractive cost price per individual."

    WOW!! How very magnanimous of you.

    How about thrity five quid a head? That's all you charge homesellers...

    WHAT WARRANTY will you offer with this 'training', Mr Hendry?

    WHO endorses it?

    At least PART of your hidden agenda has surfaced - JUST AS I PREDICTED!!

    What a pity you are not one of the frogs you say would slip back into the water to escape me. Hows about instead you slink back under the rock from whence you came.

    The RICS must be gutted you 'retired'...

    • 06 April 2011 00:31 AM
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    Evening Peter

    I have just noticed the very first Tepilo board to appear in my local area. Chatting to one of the local boys it seems the vendor has had valuations off most of the decent agents in the town. Now armed with their free advice they have been cut out of any opportunity to sell the property.

    In your experience how what advice would you give to agents on how avoid such sharp practice and recoup some of the time and money invested in pitching for the work?

    • 05 April 2011 23:49 PM
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    HD, this is the main question to answer. Obviously the answer is not simple enough to just write it out here.

    People selling their house and moving ought to know what to ask for them!
    I am firmly of the view that those clients, who are UNrealistic with their asking prices are not well served by their agents, if the latter are not advising them properly on the correct price to ask.

    I would be willing to offer a small group of estate agents, one-to-one mentoring on how to do accurate market appraisals as well as to show them ways to explain to potential clients, the advantages of marketing at the correct (or current) market price for their property.

    My method uses a special detailed look at comparable sales and employs well-tried methods to arrive at the asking price for a new take-on.
    It is mainly (but not exclusively) based on the careful analysis of the prices of recently sold similar properties, as compared with the property ready to be sold.

    Armed with such definitive knowledge, an agent would be able to be confident about what price to advise a client to go to the market at.

    The course would need to be a full day in length and would involve an explanation of the methods to be used for adjusting between different sold properties in the morning. After this there would be an arranged inspection for the group to visit a test property, and to carry out their own appraisals. Later that day, we would meet back at the session room and discuss all the results in detail, review the discrepancies and arrive at the preferred asking price to use.

    If there was interest by small group of, say up to six individuals and we could settle upon a location reasonably central to the group, I would be pleased to put such a course together at an attractive cost price per individual.

    • 05 April 2011 17:38 PM
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    Mr Hendry: Answer me one question.

    How do us Estate Agents learn to value like Surveyors?

    • 05 April 2011 16:18 PM
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    Will the Hon. PeeBee now please shut up!
    I may be alone in saying this, but I think you are the most annoying person to have to read, certainly on this EAT blog. You manage a level of disruption and spat production that only one person I have heard of could ever achieve and you don't even offer anything new to consider.

    I fear, even frogs would surreptitiously slip into the water to escape from you :o) .

    • 05 April 2011 16:17 PM
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    Mr Hendry. I find it... amusing... that you have complained to the site owners, for reasons I will not bore you with. Needless to say, I have not had warnings from Rosalind or Nat to back off, or I would have done so at their request.

    I also add that I have twice offered to you that I would leave the site and never post again if you were to undertake to do the same - both times ignored without so much as an acknowledgement.

    YOU choose to post here: I choose to post here. You wish to dictate how properties are marketed - and in order to set the ball rolling you start by dictating to me where and when I use my right of free speech ("in a gentlemanly way", I believe the words were...).

    You say I spoiled your blog a long time ago. First of all, be factually correct, please - this is not YOUR 'blog'. It is a reproduction of YOUR blog that the editors of this site were kind enough to reproduce here for you, with your full permission. Mr Hendry, I say that YOU spoiled this with the first sentence you typed. This comedy of errors would have petered out somewhere around post #20 had I not continued in my quest for answers; the truth; and your acceptance that NO-ONE agrees with you - NOT JUST ME!

    You knew fine well that your writings were controvertial; would spark intense debate. You have actually said that the purpose of your writings IS to be controvertial - so why the bruhaha when those that your writings affect the most (and the occasional fly in the ointment like me...) take you to task over them? From you first ever post, as PropertyMatch; then Realising Reality; latterly Peter Hendry and even as Major Issue or whatever it was, you have attempted to bait Agents with outrageous proposals and even more outrageous arguments and refusals to offer responses to infinitely valid questioning of your proposals.

    BUT, in your blood-rush of impending greatness, you have not been seeing straight, Mr Hendry. You have not realised what I and others have been doing. We have fed you more and more rope; you have greedily snatched at every centimetre of it to gain control of the rope, not looking at what the rope was. You just wanted it. That is the person you are: the person you have exposed yourself as - with a little help from my friends, as the song goes

    There is a very fine line, Mr Hendry, between fame and notoriety. You sought your fifteen minutes of fame.

    Guess which side of the line you now stand firmly on - and what the ground underfoot is composed of...?

    • 05 April 2011 12:44 PM
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    PeeBee, You seem to understand what it is that I am saying needs changing in order to improve the way our housing market functions (or disfunction's currently!).
    I likewise understand that your colonel efforts to argue otherwise really amount to telling me to leave it alone, on the basis that "nothing" needs doing. I simply cannot accept that.

    However, if I wasn't prepared to accept modifications to my plan for change, I would't be proposing a proper and civilised discussion with you, or any other interested party for that matter.

    By refusing, you are stating to everyone very clearly that you have no intention of listening to anything I might say and have no intuition of changing your set view, one iota.

    What you seem to be forgetting is that this housing market is in crisis, under the existing rules of operation that you, so painstakingly, want everybody to keep! Change is, by definition, needed.

    I think we therefore have to agree to DIFFER. I would now therefore ask you, in a gentlemanly way, once again, to stop posting material on this blog as you have no intention of listening to the arguments for change being presented here.

    Knowing this, I wish you had stopped spoiling this blog a long time ago and yes, I have made this point to the editors before now.

    • 05 April 2011 10:45 AM
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    Mr Hendry: "I know that you would like me to start answering all of your outstanding questions, one by one, but I'm sorry to have to say that if I did that it wouldn't achieve much.

    From what you have just written, it is very clear that you really don't comprehend the message which I am trying to communicate to everyone."

    THEN, you invite me for a cosy supper "to start exploring the very edges of our differences of opinion and viewpoint."

    WHY, Mr Hendry? You know that I am not an Agent - I have made that abundantly clear from day one. "Winning me over" will achieve what?

    You don't want to "help" agents at all. I know it; YOU know it - and mores to the point,. AGENTS know it, hence they have abandoned this comedy of errors and left me to my sport - baiting chancers.

    You blaze in with an unworkable scheme, clearly designed to alienate Agents and their vendors present and future, saying that it - and only IT - will ensure the return of the housing market to anywhere near fluid motion.

    You omit the single matter of significance from your theory - that those that OWN the properties have the ultimate decision as to what to market their property for, NOT the Agent. NO-ONE should know that factor better han YOU, Mr Hendry - with your 30-plus years of experience (forty if you count your qualification period...) in surveying and Residential Estate Agency.

    Believe me, I 'get' what you claim to be getting at, Mr Hendry. I 'get' it FAR better than you ever imagine. The practice of overvaluing for the primary purpose of winning an Instruction is a blight on the industry - I agree with you wholeheartedly on that point (put THAT on your calendar...!). But to act against it with anywhere near the suggestions you proffer would have such a negative affect on the market that it would damage it beyond repair (at least as far as Agents are concerned, that is...)

    We don't need to meet for tea and crumpets to iron this out, Mr Hendry. YOU have put forward YOUR suggestion.

    No here is MY suggestion:

    Let it be. Leave alone and watch what happens.

    My guess is that the following will happen:

    * Some Agents will continue to overvalue properties to win instructions
    * Those properties will be marketed at figures purchasers will not pay
    * The properties will not sell
    * Vendors reduce their expectations, or remove the properties from the market
    * Properties that reduce to purchasers' expectations will sell
    * Agents who overvalue will get a bad name; Agents who give fair appraisals will win more instructions

    Now I happen to like what I suggest above. Why? - BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT ALREADY HAPPENS, MR HENDRY!

    Poor Agents will always find vendor clients. The needy; the greedy; and what I call 'virgin' sellers. What they WON'T be able to do is to sell their properties, as firstly purchasers are more savvy than ever; secondly because the Surveyors are there to protect lender; own back and lastly purchaser from the over-the-odds figures that some agents try to achieve.

    What possible reason do you have for wanting to change that, Mr Hendry? Make agents more successful, you cost yourself properties. NOT what I would call good business sense. The "Freestyle Music Auditorium" I referred to was not too far away from the truth, Mr Hendry. YOU have a website where, despite EVERYTHING YOU SAY HERE, properties can and will be listed at WHATEVER FIGURE THE VENDOR CHOOSES!

    Overvaluing Agents will either struggle through, or die off - survival of the fittest. Market share is nothing: invoiced income is King.

    Similarly, sell-by-owner websites which promise miracles and produce debacles will cease to exist.

    Is that 'understanding' in your eyes, Mr Hendry? It is MY understanding - bourne from THOUSANDS of appraisals; THOUSANDS of sales; NOT ONE SINGLE complaint over an appraisal I carried out while working in Agency from 1992 to 2007.

    Please don't waste too much of your valuable time reading all this, Mr Hendry.

    OOPS - maybe I should have said that at the start...

    • 05 April 2011 01:18 AM
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    Peebee, I know that you would like me to start answering all of your outstanding questions, one by one, but I'm sorry to have to say that if I did that it wouldn't achieve much.

    From what you have just written, it is very clear that you really don't comprehend the message which I am trying to communicate to everyone. Sadly, to continue this childish battleground-banter would, in my opinion, simply further alienate myself and my blog from other readers wishing to state what 'they' may happen to feel. Your aggressive stance might just tend to put them off, you know!

    I truly believe that the only way we are ever going to make any headway would be if we both met for an evening and attempted, carefully, to start exploring the very edges of our differences of opinion and viewpoint. I therefore wish to invite you to meet me somewhere convenient, to try this instead. Perhaps supper together?. I genuinely feel a face to face discussion may result in more headway being made than could ever be achieved by continuing this unwelcome staccato-styled interblog that we both appear to have succumbed to.

    I do acknowledge that you have spent considerable time writing for the blog, as have I. I should however say, for me, time is valuable so I need to be mindful of how usefully I am employing it. I hope you understand and would certainly welcome a positive response.

    To give you a clue about what I am saying, the fact remains that estate agents' market appraisals are still generally out of line with real 'sold' prices, by far too much.
    The only way to address this is for estate agents themselves to re-appraise how they conduct their market appraisals, when touting for additional houses to sell. There are easy ways of achieving this, which all agents could adopt if they should wish to.

    • 04 April 2011 20:24 PM
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    Hendry, you are a complete tool, that's knows nothing about property. That is a FACT

    • 04 April 2011 13:59 PM
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    Hmmm… how strange – I posted here on Saturday night! Wonder if I upset one of the site admin bods – or even if I’d upset Mr Hendry and he ran to complain that nasty, insubordinate pup PeeBee is biting his ankles again?

    NEVERTHELESS, what I said was valid – so I will post it again. Not word-perfect – but as close as matters…

    Mr Hendry – you want to be sure I understand your ‘blog’. Not sure as to why you say this – as simply needing to ask is an admission that you have not explained yourself properly in the first place. You see, if I don’t understand it, based upon the principle that I am here taking you to task on it (and your agenda that you have attempted to hide since day one), then I am FAR from alone in my ‘misunderstanding’ as is evident from the numerous posts from many, many individuals.

    Therefore there is an inherent fault within the content of the message you are intending to convey. I respectfully suggest, therefore, that you go back to your little scheming – sorry, drawing board, and have another go at making your message clear, precise and compelling, as it is US that YOU are trying to convince, Mr Hendry, NOT the other way around!

    Trying to turn the tables and make ME into the evasive one; the dodger, the slippery chappie, is a neat trick, Mr Hendry. Unfortunately, like all your other tricks we can see straight up your sleeves; your rabbit has eaten the dove and the flowers, your house of cards has collapsed, therefore all your tricks look a mess. Shame – I reckon "back in the day" you were QUITE the trickster…

    HOWEVER, in the spirit of things, allow me to turn this back on you. Lord knows why – you have ducked and dived consistently from day one, you find excuse after excuse NOT to answer my or anyone else’s questions – but at least we play our parts in your comedy of errors.

    Your words: “The idea is so that I can at least know you have understood the basics of it.” Okay here goes.

    Luckily, I can call on experience. Having been privileged to share the same stage as the Halle Orchestra, led by one of the all-time leading conductors in Sir James Loughran, I have a modicum of experience and understanding of the subject you chose to 'blog' about.

    * YOU want all conductors to lead the orchestra in the same fashion.
    * YOU want there to be only one genre of music that conductors can legally preside over.
    * You want to limit the type of music played by orchestras.
    * The tempo and dynamics of the music will be suited only to the audience.
    * The orchestra will refuse to follow the conductor’s lead, and will leave the Concert Hall.
    * The orchestra, desperate to play music, will look for alternative venues.
    * YOU JUST HAPPEN to have opened a “Freestyle Music Auditorium”, where musicians can come and play whatever music they wish, unregulated by the conductor’s baton, for a small fee.
    * The audience, desperate to hear music (but the Concert Halls they once attended are silent...), have no other choice than to go to the Freestyle Music Auditorium.
    * The music is chaotic, but nevertheless some of it will appeal to some of the audience.
    * The cost to the musicians to play at the Freestyle Music Auditorium will rise exponentially.

    There – I think that pretty much covers the main points.

    NOW will you answer someone’s questions? ANY questions…?

    • 04 April 2011 11:53 AM
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    Please don’t lose any sleep on me Peter. I've had zero complaints and am still successfully selling property and will continue to do so regardless of the next ' Peter Hendry' clanger that appears on this site or any other.

    • 02 April 2011 15:18 PM
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    Wardy, So much for your 'people-friendly' response capabilities. You get 0 out of 10 for this :-0 .

    Your outburst confirms there really is no command and control within estate agency, just confusion, and infighting. What sort of stage; for successful house selling is that?

    Please see:
    Complaints about estate agents reach record high:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/borrowing/mortgages/8383717/Complaints-about-estate-agents-reach-record-high.html

    I would wager, that if you tried to explain how one should calculate house values and then I did the same, the results would be entirely different and so would the methodologies employed. It's very sad that despite my attempts to initiate a proper discussion between agents and myself on that, I got stonewalled.

    There are two choices available to all readers of all statements I make on these pages.
    You can respond to them, or ignore them (if you don't feel them worthy of a response).

    That is also what I tend to do in reference to others' postings; so that makes it a level playing field, out there.

    I hope theist least goes some way towards explaining what I am talking about. I've pretty well given up trying to have dialogue now, so I rather hope you yourself, have no more questions or comments to make after this.

    It's the weekend.

    • 02 April 2011 14:04 PM
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    jeeze, is this still going on?
    Blimey RR I’ve never read such complete dribble in all my life. In 300+ comments I have not seen you propose a single thing. Not one innovation. Not one new idea. Not one workable concept.
    You may remember that I put my neck on the line and detailed my current valuing model to you and asked how it could be improved. Your response? NOTHING. A chance for you to finally have your say on how agents should value.
    Insult, beat around the bush, answer a question with a question, and threaten. You have done all of the above for one simple reason. YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.
    I don’t care for your response, the simple reason being, you don’t matter. You cant/wont change a thing, partly because your clueless but mostly because your a nobody. Nothing more than a keyboard warrior and a troll.

    • 02 April 2011 12:08 PM
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    As I have said already, before I answer more of your questions, could you first summarise the main thrust of my claims in the blog article please. The idea is so that I can at least know you have understood the basics of it.

    Otherwise ...

    • 02 April 2011 11:37 AM
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    Turn the record over, Mr Hendry - I am the only one left in the room who would possibly be listening to it - and it bores me rigid.

    You are incapable of answering because you have no reasonable answers to offer. You want ME to tell you what I could possibly consider to be a possible benefit to the housing market out of the drivel you spout, to then use that to make me believe you are right.

    YOU ARE NOT!

    The trouble is, the dozens who have previously questioned your motives, agendae, sanity and sense have now departed, so I am your only audience.

    Your pathetic excuses for "ANS" - sorry - answers to what? Shouldn't you be calling them "RES" for responses? Poor command of your native tongue, Mr Hendry - thought you surveyor types were literate?

    You say I haven't understood a single word of what I have read. If that is so, then it is because the writer has not explained himself, as I seem to have the identical 'difficulties' to everyone else who has dared to question you. Surely we cannot ALL be dense, as you insinuate I am, so logic dictates that the cause lies at the source of the information.

    One way or another, the light has not registered, has it. If it had, then obviously I would be hailing you the saviour of the market; bowing to your superior knowledge and wisdom, and carrying a placard demanding you be ordained Archbishop of Canterbury!

    But NONE of those are going to happen - are they?

    I LOVE your parting words. "Off you go." Class! Oh, how you want to say something COMPLETELY different, don't you?

    What's stopping you - we're the only two here! Go on. There's a good fellow - get it off your chest. Release all that latent anger. Give it your best shot. At least when you're trying to insult me you're keeping your mucky paws off the housing market.

    EUREKA! - THAT'S MY CONTRIBUTION!! You knew it all the time, didn't you?

    Anon - you still there? Still waiting? (you'll see that another day has gone by and he hasn't disappointed us by co-operating in the least...) But now it is ME who is the one evading questions, apparently! Turn up for the books or what?

    I'll answer some of YOUR charades questions if you like!

    • 02 April 2011 01:06 AM
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    PeeBee, you said:
    Mr Hendry: You are a confused soul. You seem to be reading what I said - "I ALSO look to make the property market a better and safer place for those who enter" - as a claim to some great innovations I have introduced into the housing industry. That is NOT the case and I have stated exactly that. LOOKING to do something and DOING IT are two completely different things.

    ANS:
    It sounds like a complete waste of time saying that, to me anyway.

    THAT is my response. AGAIN. Just because it doesn't suit you does not make it a 'No Response'.

    ANS:
    Why on Earth bother to say it. Too many words, my ol' blogger.

    Of course, my determined efforts to expose your poorly hidden agendae may well go down in the history books as the longest ever standoff - that would be an achievement - but then only one of us is anonymous so that's not exactly going to appear on my CV, is it?

    ANS:
    One to you then. Big deal.

    (Trouble is, you really don't want YOUR name to appear in the same listing, do you?) Imagine what the readers of this are thinking about you and your company now. Will you be seen as the miracle-worker who revitalised the property market - or as a chancer who refused to answer ANY questions from ANYBODY regarding... well...pretty much ANYTHING, actually.

    ANS:
    PeeBee the big surly 'parent'. Me, the naughty subordinate one, the 'child'? I don't think so, somehow.

    People ONLY trust people they believe have nothing to hide, Mr Hendry. You have erected a FORTRESS around yourself, and will not allow ANYONE the merest of peeks within. The walls are solid refusals; the roof - tiles of deflective shielding that returns every question with a question attached.

    ANS:
    More rubbish.

    The foundations, however, have long-since crumbled to dust, due to lack of any cohesive substance to hold together the weight of your defences. And those who know anything about property know that without solid foundation, there is no hope of the structure remaining stable.

    You are the sulphate in your own footings, Mr Hendry. How you set about remediation is up to you - but I certainly don't envy the task you have set yourself...

    ANS:
    I don't think you have taken in, or understood, or accepted a solitary thing I have suggested in these blogs. That is sad.

    NOW listen up:
    I repeat, one of the reasons why I am reluctant to keep answering the machine-gun fire of your questions is: -
    Although you are clearly a regular contributor to these blogs, I'm not sure that you have read and understand the nature of the changes I am proposing.

    For that reason I would now ask you, 'before I answer more of your questions', could you please summarise the main thrust of my claims, and say why I might suggest that these would have a beneficial effect upon the UK housing market over several decades to come?

    If you are capable of doing anything like that, I'll answer 3 of your chosen questions. If not, please now stop wasting eyeballs, and your own fingers.
    I assume you may have something else to do (which may be one more assumption too far, in your case). Off you go.

    • 01 April 2011 19:20 PM
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    Robert,
    I hate to say this but, Oh well, there goes another sensitive soul in the land of the estate agent :-(

    I agree with you that it's no good delegating too much to technology, however. Is that the only common ground we share?

    • 01 April 2011 19:20 PM
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    You appear to think that the present arrangements work well and cannot be bettered.


    That isn't quite what I said Peter and would like to correct that. I have said that agents do well to balance the demands of vendors and applicants considering they work for vendors.

    Ask anyone who knows me well and they will testify that I think far too many agents delegate too many of their responsibilities to technology. House retail rather than Estate Agency, as I said in my first post on this subject.

    I am not sure about being called a Warlock either, I have yet to forgive the bloke who accused me of being possessed simply because I questioned the abuse of his staff simply to save himself a few extra quid one Christmas.

    • 01 April 2011 19:14 PM
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    Mr Hendry: You are a confused soul. You seem to be reading what I said - "I ALSO look to make the property market a better and safer place for those who enter" - as a claim to some great innovations I have introduced into the housing industry. That is NOT the case and I have stated exactly that. LOOKING to do something and DOING IT are two completely different things.

    THAT is my response. AGAIN. Just because it doesn't suit you does not make it a 'No Response'.

    Of course, my determined efforts to expose your poorly hidden agendae may well go down in the history books as the longest ever standoff - that would be an achievement - but then only one of us is anonymous so that's not exactly going to appear on my CV, is it?

    (Trouble is, you really don't want YOUR name to appear in the same listing, do you?) Imagine what the readers of this are thinking about you and your company now. Will you be seen as the miracle-worker who revitalised the property market - or as a chancer who refused to answer ANY questions from ANYBODY regarding... well...pretty much ANYTHING, actually.

    People ONLY trust people they believe have nothing to hide, Mr Hendry. You have erected a FORTRESS around yourself, and will not allow ANYONE the merest of peeks within. The walls are solid refusals; the roof - tiles of deflective shielding that returns every question with a question attached.

    The foundations, however, have long-since crumbled to dust, due to lack of any cohesive substance to hold together the weight of your defences. And those who know anything about property know that without solid foundation, there is no hope of the structure remaining stable.

    You are the sulphate in your own footings, Mr Hendry. How you set about remediation is up to you - but I certainly don't envy the task you have set yourself...

    • 01 April 2011 18:21 PM
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    Robert, I haven't forgotten you but am rather busy trying to square Peebee right now |-O

    To sum up what you seem to be saying, is you can't think of any improvements to put forward, based on what is happening now.
    You appear to think that the present arrangements work well and cannot be bettered. You are entitled to your view, young warlock, but I vehemently disagree |:-) .

    There are well-proven ways to reduce market imbalances, booms, slumps, whatever you wish to call them. Some of these have been outlined in the BBC economics programmes you have directed me and others to.

    I am saying that some of the well-proved tools they suggest would be worth using - right now, in estate agency. Are you, or is anyone else for that matter, actually listening though?

    • 01 April 2011 17:03 PM
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    PeeBee the pee'd off one, HD,etc., thanks for your 'free' advice but, no thanks. If you guys, who appear to know less than tuppence between you about what help house movers need, are feigning friendship by saying this from the point of view of somehow trying to be "concerned" for Property Match's survival, don't worry guys, we've got it all covered. I would suggest you worry about your own a'rses.

    • 01 April 2011 17:01 PM
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    PeeBee, you seem to forget what you have just said. You must have Amnesia! What are you on?
    You said:

    "But... wait... HOORAY - a commonality at last! I ALSO look to make the property market a better and safer place for those who enter. The difference is, your "passion" needs to be fuelled by people clicking on your website and parting with their money. I'm doing this FREE GRATIS - no reward sought or expected!"

    Now, once again, Please provide two specific examples of positive proposals to improve estate agency that you have independently made, in the fairly recent past?

    For the record, Please note: I shall not, (repeat not) be answering your questions unless you first show willing by putting your own lack of responses right. You choose. No offence to anyone else by the way.

    • 01 April 2011 17:01 PM
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    Peebee: Could not agree more.

    Mr Hendry maybe you should take heed from the others that have tried to push their websites as the next big thing over the past few months;

    Agent Tracker - live wesbite, no customers, Net Movers - they don't even bother to call you back, The berk from Blackpool advertising Buckingham Palace on his portal,

    The main reason none of them will work, is because they will never reach a wide enough audience, neither will the biggest online agents.

    Thats why us agents cover a small area, were we have the knowledge, actually sell the properties and have an avergage fee in the £000's.

    Not easy, but rather do that than sitting behind a computer, waiting for those all important enquiries, that will never materialise.

    • 01 April 2011 13:10 PM
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    HD: "If I was a homeowner I would be seriously pee'd off if I wasn't having viewers passed through to me."

    Yes - but of course NO-ONE knows about the website; so NO-ONE knows their property is on there; therefore NO-ONE knows that it ISN'T getting responses from the NOBODY who goes on the site to NOT search for the property that SHOULDN'T be there anyway!

    Confused... you will be! ;o)

    • 01 April 2011 12:53 PM
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    Wow, can't believe this thread is still going. Its been quite a read so far.

    Mr Hendry, still not answering questions what a shocker.

    My conlusion I have sort of come to here is, that you aren't actually that interested in changing the market, otherwise you would be trying to action these things, not blogging all the time.

    Actions speak louder than words.

    But on the other hand, you aren't a repected face in the industry, so you come on here spouting off your mad ideas trying to get noticed, which you have suceeded in doing, but only by making yourself look like a first class plonker.

    You obviously enjoy your blogging here, but I also think you enjoy being confrontational much more. Its Sad.

    60% of homes don't sell. You are as far away from reality as is humanly possible mate.

    Now to just a quick note on your website. I know you have craped/linked, whatever you want to call all the properties on your website.

    We all know the reason you have them there, is to make your website look more popular than it actually is to potential 'private sellers' looking to spend their hard end £35.

    One last query I have is, If Im not correct on the above, why do you have the properties there.

    I did a little research yesterday on my properties, when clicking through to the details, they are powered by Oodle, Net Movers etc.

    Punched in my contact details to be informed about the certain properties for viewings, and guess what no contact from any of them.

    Now I know what your going to say, not my responsibilty, but all of these properties are being linked through your site. If I was a homeowner I would be seriously pee'd off if I wasn't having viewers passed through to me.

    • 01 April 2011 12:19 PM
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    Mr Hendry. May I congratulate you on your achievement. You have taken a sorry situation that YOU have created; riled up a fair number of people with your steadfast obstinance and disrespect/refusal of acknowledgement of the views of the majority; flatly refuse to answer the genuine concerns of the very people whose industry you CLAIM to want to be the saviour of - either singly or collectively under one spokesperson; then you lamely attempt to turn the tables and make ME look like the dodger with "I've noticed that whatever I ask you, you simply refuse to do :'-( "

    Sir - you are the mould that was cast for the stereotypical "slippery spiv" that Estate Agents have in the majority been burdoned with. I trust you are proud of your achievement.

    This is YOUR show. YOU want to change the way that property is marketed, remember? Therefore it is YOU that need to answer questions; it is YOU that need to convince the majority (myself included) that YOU are right and THE REST OF THE INDUSTRY AND ITS CLIENTELLE is wrong!

    I have NEVER claimed to have made representations to anyone that I have made "positive proposals to improve estate agency that you have independently made, in the fairly recent past" So what do you want me to do? Make something up? Steal someone else's idea?

    Perhaps, in your eyes, the most "positive improvement" I have contributed to Estate Agency was to leave, Mr Hendry. That was in 2007 - is that recent enough to count? If it is, then I would have thought that this would have been worth a King's ransom to you. Can you possibly imagine what world of pain I COULD cause you, if I were still practicing? (Truth is, I still can...but I simply do not see you as a threat to the industry - you're just an old, mangy lion who now likes to roar a lot but has to keep his distance from the young, healthy pride for fear of getting ripped apart...)

    Only today I notice THIS as your website header: "Up to 60% of houses put up for sale with estate agents fail to sell, many because of initial over-pricing!" Oh, dear - using your mate and equally-esteemed property expert Henry's data now are we? I hope you have his agreement - OR you can prove these claims when the TSO or ASA asks you to do so? You have the relevant statistics I take it? You have them verified by a source with the necessary approval? Because if all you are doing is regurgitating his blog, I can pretty much DISPROVE Henry's figures, as I have already demonstrated!

    Tell me (I should really make that US - you MIGHT just answer it then...), Mr Hendry, WHAT IS THE VERIFIED LISTINGS TO SALES AGREED PERCENTAGE RATE FOR YOUR WEBSITE?

    And WHY don't you quote IT on your site?

    Keep those ankles dangling, Sir - I'm having the chew of my life here! ;o)

    • 01 April 2011 10:55 AM
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    Yay, Anon is now Mr 300! Thank you Peter!

    (The real anon not the imposter poster anon!)

    So fitting that this joke came to a head on 1st April, comic timing at its best. Read it and weep Ken Dodd!

    Can we get to 400?

    • 01 April 2011 08:47 AM
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    I just want to get this thread up to 300 posts. If we can do that Mr Hendry will have a claim to some fame and recognition. The BIGGEST thread on Estate Agent today! Bigger than any Rightmove story. That will be something that can be added to the Property Match UK web site.

    • 01 April 2011 08:41 AM
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    Dear PeeBee,
    Zut alors - Peebee. Mon petit che wa wa, I've noticed that whatever I ask you, you simply refuse to do :'-( . I know you mistakenly think I'm only your butler, but "if I might be so bold sir, a little re-training might afford you a far better life's experience". Break the mould today! A answer a question yourself! After all, it is a special day today; n'est pas?

    You say, like me, "you look to make the property market a better and safer place for those who enter".
    Please provide two specific examples of positive proposals to improve estate agency that you have independently made, in the fairly recent past?

    • 01 April 2011 08:33 AM
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    anon - I am neither retired nor work from home - unless the snow is so deep as to force this upon me.

    I do, however, sadly sit at my PC at home each night, waiting patiently for Mr Hendry's barrage of answers to the questions so many have reasonably asked of him for many months. YES, Mr Hendry - PATIENTLY! you should see me when I start getting IMpatient!!

    Do you want another guess (or two...), anon - or another round of questions for me? I'm quite enjoying this; a bit flattered but nontheless puzzled why the interest in ME...; but most of all would like to thank you SO much for keeping me company on this vigil ;0)

    You are a kind soul. Mr Hendry would do well to learn from your example...

    • 31 March 2011 22:40 PM
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    "The government has been lobbied to remove this right" By who? (just one question) and I wonder when (not a question as such )

    • 31 March 2011 19:22 PM
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    Hello again, Mr Hendry!

    No machine-gun questions - just keeping those who give a shizzle updated with your 'other online activities'...

    From your Facebook page:

    Your Bio - "I'm a pioneer in retaining the right of houseowners to sell privately. The government has been lobbied to remove this right. Its therefore more important than ever for people to use their right to sell or let privately or they may loose this forever." Hmmm... pioneer. I like that. Wouldn't be the word I USE to describe you, however you can call yourself whatever you want... Do you have a beaver hat to go with the title, perchance?

    Your latest status update - "I've come to the conclusion that estate agents are as least as culpable for the present difficulties in the housing market, as humans in general are for all the other difficulties we currently face. Nevertheless, that does not make them innocent!" You might want to decipher that one for the masses...

    The latter is also your latest Tw@tter update, of course.

    Previous to that little gem... "What are you passionate about?For me it's about implementing ways of improving the UK housing market using 30 yrs exp: (link to your company website - so hardly appropriate...!) But... wait... HOORAY - a commonality at last! I ALSO look to make the property market a better and safer place for those who enter. The difference is, your "passion" needs to be fuelled by people clicking on your website and parting with their money. I'm doing this FREE GRATIS - no reward sought or expected! (Mine's called REAL passion, Mr Hendry.)

    Back to Tw@tter - "Just as F1 drivers had to campaign for better car safety design, house vendors now need to campaign for better UK house marketing procedures" Make yer mind up, man - one minute you're talking about the Red Arrows; then the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra - now you bring Lewis Hamilton et al into the equation!

    CAN'T YOU JUST STICK TO ONE SIMILE??

    (Oops, sorry - that's a question, isn't it? Darn! Another one! Ignore them both. HAH! Like I have to tell you to do that...)

    Back with another thrilling episode - if and when there IS one, folks... ;0)

    • 31 March 2011 17:03 PM
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    "One of the reasons why I am reluctant to keep answering the machine-gun fire of your questions is: -
    Although you are clearly a regular contributor to these blogs, I'm not sure that you have read and understand the nature of the changes I am proposing."

    ONE of the reasons? So now you think you can be MY puppeteer - string me along nicely feeding me questions, when it is YOU who thinks they can change the direction of the housing market with your suggested 'improvements'! HOW LONG do you think I will play along with THAT articular stalling tactic, Mr Hendry?

    Why do you think that ONLY I have a problem understanding your proposals? I am one of MANY who have taken you to task. I am STILL asking the questions that I and several others have repeatedly asked of you, both relating to this blog entry, and to similar subjects YOU have raised over the past six or more months. Questions that you have stubbornly dodged and refused to answer.

    Why should I explain what I believe to be YOUR motivation and reasoning? Is it because you don't know them yourself, perhaps?

    That would fit pretty much in line with the thinking of the vast majority, Mr Hendry...

    • 31 March 2011 11:19 AM
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    The end of that program fades off into the distance for one reason, the herding and greed of society along with nurture of experience means that economics are never as simple as supply and demand.

    Vendors compete with each other to sell property and employ agents to ensure they get the very best price they can. Agents compete with each other for instructions, Buyer competes with each other to buy and pay as little as they can. All that competition creates competitive tension on so many levels that is isn't as simple as saying that if Agents do this, do that, don't do this or don't do that the Property market is going to be fixed.

    You will bang your head on a very rocky wall if you try to fix a system that has fairly well adapted over several hundred decades to the vagaries and nature of the characters involved. As you have discovered you will get a hostile reaction if you single out Agents as the root cause of the industry's woes.

    To end from me Agents do a very good job of balancing their duties to the vendor with the demands of purchaser and the opinions of surveyors, solicitors, lenders, relations, friends, bloke down the pub et all. Opinion of value is something we all have different perspective on.

    • 31 March 2011 10:15 AM
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    Robert, yes I too listened with interest to Part 3 of "The story of Economics". Maybe we could chat more on that?

    Please understand, I am not always available however.

    • 31 March 2011 09:11 AM
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    Dear PeeBee,

    One of the reasons why I am reluctant to keep answering the machine-gun fire of your questions is: -
    Although you are clearly a regular contributor to these blogs, I'm not sure that you have read and understand the nature of the changes I am proposing.

    For that reason I would now ask you, before I answer more of your questions, could you please summarise the main thrust of my claims, and say why I might suggest that these would have a beneficial effect upon the UK housing market over several decades to come?

    • 31 March 2011 09:08 AM
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b00zsjz3

    Part 3 of "The story of Economics" more stuff to think about and perhaps an explanation of the human function of the property market?

    • 31 March 2011 09:04 AM
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    That rules you out of being the "Grim Reaper" corporate bod who shuts down "not orange" bits of Vebra.

    You either work from home or are retired...... um ?
    I give up!

    I think the exectutive board of PropertymatchUK have realised the commercial suicide of this open hostility marketing campaign. Whatever, a no show for 3 days means you have won this round Peebee.

    • 31 March 2011 08:10 AM
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    Hmmm, anon... I like charades.

    Okay - unlike SOME I could mention, I DO provide answers to questions!

    Winding up offices? Not me, I am afraid (or should I say "I'm pleased to say"...). As an Agent, I dedicated all my waking hours to keep my office(s) OPEN! Kinda managed it as well (I don't talk about the one exception to the rule...save to say it HAD to happen!).

    Instead, I save my 'winding up' for the likes of HPCers and the loons who proclaim they have all the answers but produce nothing but smoke and mirrors. ;o)

    I do, however, know where at least two of the towns you refer to are located - not that that factoid is of any significance whatsoever...

    It is true that I know people. Some of them I can even call by their first names! As to whether I know "stuff" is another matter - and many would argue that point, I am sure.

    Confused? You will be... (I LOVED that show!)

    I look forward to the next round of questions.

    Goodnight, anon :0)

    • 31 March 2011 00:44 AM
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    Seems more appropriate to play Charades!

    You are an ex-agent, still involved in property that knows folk and knows stuff! You are not PBK and not Property Bee. Did you wind up offices in Frome, Wolverhampton and Redruth?

    P.S. there are multiple Anons!

    • 30 March 2011 21:33 PM
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    So, poster-with-no-name (but I bet I know who you are... ;0)) it's just the three of us then.

    (Might actually be just you and me...)

    YOU wanna have an argument instead? Keep our hands in, so as to speak... :D

    • 30 March 2011 20:38 PM
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    Not bored Peebee, just waiting!

    • 30 March 2011 17:23 PM
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    Ah, well, Mr Hendry - looks like you and I are the only two left in the room.

    Everyone else got bored waiting for an answer to one of their questions.

    ANY answer to ANY of their questions, to be factually and grammatically correct!

    No doubt we will 'meet' again, on another battleground.

    I can't wait...!

    • 30 March 2011 13:11 PM
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    PeeBee! On your lead now, we don't want you snapping out of control at people now, do we. Time for Walkies!

    • 28 March 2011 16:20 PM
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    Of course you wish it, Mr Hendry. This insignificant pup is annoyingly chewing at your ankles, isn't he?

    Such a pity that only one of us is immensely enjoying the process, isn't it...?

    • 28 March 2011 10:36 AM
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    I wish somebody would take this guy offline, and let anyone else who wants to, post something interesting.

    • 28 March 2011 10:19 AM
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    "Look here, I can't keep answering your questions only to find all my answers are criticised as being wanting; whether fairly or otherwise."

    WHAT ANSWERS? You answer NOTHING that ANYONE EVER asks you.

    Cease this sham now, Mr Hendry. There is only ONE PERSON looking a complete fool - and it AIN'T the anonymous one...

    Go find a rock to crawl undeer, lick your wounds clean as you can - then reinvent yourself. The 'team' you keep referring to need you to do that - if 'they' are to have any future in the industry you evidently despise so fiercely yet wish to control.

    Learn from this, Sir; you are NOT the puppeteer - simply another insignificant puppet player in your own comedy of errors.

    • 28 March 2011 09:28 AM
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    PeeBee. Look here, I can't keep answering your questions only to find all my answers are criticised as being wanting; whether fairly or otherwise.

    What I want to say is that I've given everyone a slice of 'the cake' I've made, with a view to stimulating worthwhile discussion about it's flavour, texture, likeabilty etc. In this way I've tried to give everyone 'a flavour' of what I see as being the main issues involved in getting more house moves happening in the UK.

    What I was hoping for, in return, is for several estate agents to share, for everyone's benefit, a similar sized slice of their own knowledge about selling houses in general and about how they could be more effectively sold, in the current market that we are all faced with having.

    My hope is to try and identify precisely which ideas might work for the greater benefit of all those planning to move within the UK.

    I would like to think that those with positive conclusions might like to share these with everybody and in the process they can improve the market, help those using it, and help themselves as part of this process.

    If estate agents are truly all about understanding 'people' and what they need, as is generally claimed by them, it's time to communicate this to everyone by offering some new suggestions about how to improve the fast deteriorating housing market.

    To try and further the 'people' discussion PeeBee, I was interested in your reference to "la Sagrada Familia." Might I be correct if guessing you might have Latin ancestry yourself? Have you relatives in Catalonia? I'm of Scotch and celtic extraction, as my name suggests.

    It would be interesting to hear a bit more about you, and your best suggestions or from anyone else wishing to post their comments here?

    • 28 March 2011 09:05 AM
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    Mr Hendry: "You seem to be saying, in effect, that you see yourself as the smallest of many other small cogs in an absolutely GIANT machine, called estate agents (though you yourself keep saying you're not one)! You seem to be implying, that you see yourself belonging to the biggest 'gang' in the country. The biggest of 'machines' ever conceived. So it's security in numbers is it? You think you belong to the biggest gang of bullies, coercers and intimidators ever. Oh, I think I get it. I think I know where you are coming from now. Great :-] Am I right?"

    About as right as you are about ANYTHING ELSE you care to bumble on about on this site; your own site, Facebook and Tw@tter. If you had given MY post the same decency of reading it fully as I give yours, then you would have picked up the following: "(la Sagrada Familia...) is work in progress LONG after the death of the ‘creator’ – however the property market ‘machine’ will NEVER be ‘complete’!"

    I am involved in the property industry, Mr Hendry. That is all you need to know. I am deeply sorry that my enigmatic style pains you so much. Actually - no I'm not. I will heap it on as long as you and I continue debating this comedy of your errors.

    Now - JUST ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, WILL YOU? ANY questions. You just choose the ones you think willdamage you least.

    Just don't try to be clever with me or anyone else for that matter. We all sussed out - long since - THAT particular fantasy you want to attempt to perpetuate...

    • 25 March 2011 20:49 PM
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    @PeeBee: Are you asking me some questions by the way? I'm having difficulty keeping up with these. Could you possibly set out the first 3 questions that you might like answers to as of priority, and I shall try and respond when time permits.

    You seem to be saying, in effect, that you see yourself as the smallest of many other small cogs in an absolutely GIANT machine, called estate agents (though you yourself keep saying you're not one)! You seem to be implying, that you see yourself belonging to the biggest 'gang' in the country. The biggest of 'machines' ever conceived. So it's security in numbers is it? You think you belong to the biggest gang of bullies, coercers and intimidators ever. Oh, I think I get it. I think I know where you are coming from now. Great :-] Am I right?

    • 25 March 2011 17:31 PM
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    In one of posts yesterday you referred to David Dalby of the RICS, reminding me that we crossed swords on that very gentleman's blog here on EAT a couple of months ago. May I, then, refer you to comments posted on the said blog, and respectfully request your responses to the points I raise:

    (Peter Hendry posting as 'Realising Reality'): "Why can't estate agents bury their hatchets and work as 'Brothers in Arms' with surveyors in order to provide a totally comprehensive service to the house buying and selling public?

    If they combined what they each separately know, think how the service could improve. Knowing precisely how to value the houses they should be selling, surely is one of the most important fundamentals that ought to be shared territory. Those who carry out such vital tasks should, indeed must, have a common understanding, and genuinely respect each other for this to work.

    I'm not speaking as a surveyor by the way."

    to which I commented: "Wanna bet? Which is ironic, considering you "resigned from that Institution before the last house price crash as they would not 'institute' appropriate action".

    There are many, many Chartered Surveyors who are active in Residential Estate Agency, Sir - and you are well aware of that. One frightening thought is that you may even have been one of them!"

    So, Mr Hendry, do you now 'realise' and accept that I DID acknowledge you as a surveyor?

    You then reposeted with the following: "Dear Mr Dalby,

    Having seen what Mary Portas had to say, do you think it may be possible for estate agent (at least Chartered Surveyor ones) to gain a reputation amongst estate agents for hard work, real knowledge about each property they sell, expertise, and honesty?

    Do you think it might be possible for estate agents to know everything about the property they are selling including its compass orientation and also the area, the schools, the level of crime in that area, etc.?"

    Please explain to me, Mr Hendry, how do the compass orientation (I was never without one, by the way...), neighbourhood schools and crime figures affect valuations placed upon properties determined using The Red Book Valuation Standards?

    • 25 March 2011 17:21 PM
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    '@Peebee': Sorry - firstly I didn't think you were wanting a response; secondly I have just Googled Property Bee to see who/what you think I am.

    Erm... no. Sorry. I repeat my words of yesterday:

    I figured out YEARS AGO that I am the smallest of teeth in the smallest of cogs in the smallest of parts in the biggest of machines EVER to be conceived.

    My 'real' name would register a resounding WHO??? if you read it here or anywhere else for that matter.

    The six letters you see me post under is the sum total of my burning desire for recognition. Kinda 'boxes off' my ambition, dunnit? ;0)

    • 25 March 2011 13:24 PM
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    I will take your lack of denial as an admission.

    • 25 March 2011 13:03 PM
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    Apologies for the cutting and pasting, folks - but otherwise you might just have missed this, from today's story "New first-time buyer scheme 'could make things worse' "
    It goes as follows:

    Realising Reality (I see we are back to synomyms and multiple identities on the site, Sir...)
    "...whereas it's a supply shortage that is causing excessive prices in the first place."

    SORRY??

    EVERY word on this site you have ever had the arrogance to post completely opposes the above.

    WHAT SHORT SUPPLY?? You bang on and on about the myriad of properties that CANNOT and WILL NOT sell because AGENTS HAVE OVERVALUED THEM!

    PROOF? YOUR OWN WORDS FROM "THE PETER HENDRY (one of your other 'personalities') BLOG" - EAT 11 March:

    "Markets work depending on prices. The inescapable reason why the housing market is not and has not been trading at adequate levels of completed transactions is because the prices currently being quoted are too high."

    MAKE YOUR MIND UP, "REALISING REALITY"!!!!!

    ...or PropertyMatch
    ...or Peter Hendry
    ... or anyone else you may currently be posting under the assumed name of...

    • 25 March 2011 12:48 PM
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    Property Bee?, it fits! Not an Estate Agent who knows lots about Estate Agency.

    • 25 March 2011 12:47 PM
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    'if you could not tell I was qualified by reading what I'd posted.'

    Brilliant! Quite the opposite actually! From what I was reading I’m amazed you’re qualified in anything.

    • 25 March 2011 12:27 PM
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    Mr Hendry: What would you list as your major achievements in Estate agency and surveying over the years?

    • 25 March 2011 11:53 AM
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    Mr Hendry: You do not have to question my knowledge of Estate Agency - I say here and now there are holes and I do not (and never have...) profess to know everything.

    HOW ABOUT you question THE OTHERS who could evidently not ascertain from your use of some poncy wording that you were not a Chartered Surveyor at some point in the past? You know who I refer to - the PRACTICING ESTATE AGENTS who have asked for proof?

    • 25 March 2011 11:31 AM
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    PeeBee, I seriously have to call into question your knowledge of estate agency, if you could not tell I was qualified by reading what I'd posted.

    • 25 March 2011 10:58 AM
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    "Some might be interested to know that early on in this debacle..."

    That would be the "debacle" that YOU created; YOU stubbornly perpetuate; and YOU promote to the world on YOUR blog!

    You will notice that NO-ONE else provides links to this "debacle" on their websites, Mr Hendry - WHETHER OR NOT they are anonymous...

    This is only a "debacle" because YOU WANTED IT to be aired. Had you wanted to go about your life and your business the way that 99.9% of business owners do, by advertising legitimately; by utilising the power of the internet; of recommendation by satisfied customers; get some filippino spammer to SEO your site for a couple of grains of rice payment; hey - even fake a couple of reviews on Martin's site... what the h3ll..., but NO - YOU had to try to make the world's ears prick up by dreaming up a couple of totally madcap schemes that would shock the property industry into a perfectly predictable wave of opposition in order to claim your personal 15 minutes of fame.

    BAD MOVE!

    You see, the great majority of posters on here do not seek attention the way you do. Their egos do not come into this - simply the good of their industry. If, as a collective, what they all say on here is read, considered and adopted by the mainstream, then they will ALL benefit. MY 15 minutes of fame came and went long ago. I neither need nor particularly want to tell people who I am. My name is not of consequence. Last week I seriously considered 'outing' myself in order to meet your requirement to debate with a 'name'. Or simply to join the debate as 'me'. That way, I could even have agreed with myself, adding weight to my argument, the way that certain other factions have done here before. I have always posted under this name. I don't see why I should change to suit you; I am not dishonest enough to post under multiple identities - so this is what you get. But my anonymity I believe is a show that I am totally impartial as I have no gain to make one way or another. CL is not gaining by my opposition to you; neither is Jonnie, AceofSpades, wardy, George Daws or ANY OTHER that has vehemently disagreed with your theories and ideas in a way that you now choose to refer to as a "debacle".

    I've picked out one dictionary definition of "debacle" (you see, exactly like 'values', there are several which suit different purposes. You might just want to remember that little gem for a later date...)

    * A total, often ludicrous failure.

    I think WE ALL know to what the total, ludicrous failure refers, Sir. I actually applaud you for being the last to acknowledge it - but there WILL come a time when you have to, mark my word.

    And another little gem for you to grasp: "Only those who dare to fail greatly can ever achieve greatly."

    Your day WILL come, I trust... and WHEN that day comes, I will back your achievement with the fervour that I OPPOSE your current attempt at recognition.

    There is a fine line between fame and notoriety. YOU simply haven't got a clue which side of the line you have landed yourself on. Listen to those who are SCREAMING at you to come back to the safety of the line...

    • 25 March 2011 10:44 AM
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    @CL: Some might be interested to know that early on in this debacle, the following offer was made, in private, by email to you:

    " … I hope this helps.  If there are still matters we appear to disagree on, I'd suggest you, me and perhaps one of the others all met up sometime, if it not too far.  Are you all up North?

    It's an idea anyway, because I don't want disagreements and I doubt you do either. There should be a way to iron this out for everyone's benefit, I would have thought?".
    Peter Hendry

    • 25 March 2011 09:05 AM
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    As my name has been mentioned I thought I would pop back on and clarify my position.

    There is very little that Realising Reality/Peter Hendry could say that would be of interest to me, hence my disappearance. I am not discounting the possibility that he may in the future have some worthwhile ideas, but personally I doubt it.

    For myself, his 'standing' in my eyes is somewhere lower than Katie Price. He has come out with so many daft ideas and dubious thoughts that I really can't be bothered with him anymore.

    I have better things to do than inflate his ego by allowing him to rent space in my head.

    Good luck my friends!

    • 24 March 2011 19:28 PM
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    For those who want to know, I have just heard from an RICS source who has confirmed that a Mr Peter W Hendry WAS a Member of the Institution.

    THAT, Mr Hendry, has satisfied MY curiosity.

    It does not alter a word of anything I have said.

    • 24 March 2011 18:32 PM
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    I knew I couldn’t leave this alone! I will forego late afternoon tea just to say that there are now 3 “not Estate Agents” having a discussion about what is good and bad about Estate Agents.

    For what it is worth and please take this as advice rather than taking offence, I don’t think Peter is up to no good, but I do think he is putting a lot of effort into something that is already well catered for in the market. If this is a hobby or lifestyle business to keep one’s brain active and provide an opportunity to talk and do something meaningful in retirement. Why not? What I don’t see is the business plan that shows this Portal project taking off and providing a living.
    Without fail every month we get at least two requests for data feeds to new portals. I have got a stack of business cards from young MD’s who are now working for someone else.

    • 24 March 2011 17:46 PM
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    "I don't think you have any questions arising? So we can move on now.

    Moving on, I'm trying to attract some reasonably knowledgeable people to have further discussions with each other on the topic of the blog, preferably estate agents or surveyors and valuers."

    So I'm dismissed then? I'm sorry I do not come up to the standards of your preferred correspondents. You should try an old trick I use: don't try to bring people UP to YOUR level - YOU GET YOUR A$$ DOWN TO THEIRS!

    Nah - sorry, pal - I'm claiming squatters rights here. I'm going NOWHERE on YOUR say-so.

    Didn't YOU say "This is not about our egos!" REALLY?? YOURS seems to want to invade a neighbouring country, unfortunately the legs of your infantry aren't strong enough to take them over the border and your tanks are decommissioned.

    You want me gone from here - THEN YOU GO AS WELL! I offered that solution to you almost a week ago, and you chose to ignore it.

    Leave EAT alone, and I will leave you alone.

    YOUR CALL, Mr Hendry, your call...

    • 24 March 2011 16:31 PM
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    @PeeBee, OK. You've responded to my recent posts. Fair enough.
    I don't think you have any questions arising? So we can move on now.

    Moving on, I'm trying to attract some reasonably knowledgeable people to have further discussions with each other on the topic of the blog, preferably estate agents or surveyors and valuers.

    • 24 March 2011 15:54 PM
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    @ Peebee I am still here and still sweet, I want to see where this goes now. I can see a long distance, slow-mo. debate developing which will end up with no real conclusion or consensus. I haven't got time for that at the moment but will dip in and out of the dialogue Peter has got to have with the likes of you, Wardy, Country Lass, Jonnie, George, HD and Co. It doesn't matter to me what anyone calls themselves on here part of the attraction is piecing together who they really are.

    @ Peter, I knew there would be a polarised view of that program Hence “which I am sure the individual poles of this discussion will interpret in opposite ways" That is the nature of markets and economics.

    Best Regards

    Robert

    • 24 March 2011 15:22 PM
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    Sorry, folks – this looks like it is going to be a novelette!

    Mr Hendry: In response to comments posted by you tis morning, I have the following to say.


    In answer to the following:
    “Having now achieved what you set out to do, in getting me to post under my real name, you seem to be making few valid comments here, and so I am wondering if you might prefer to concentrate on the many other EAT blog subjects available, rather than continue on this one? I slightly hesitate to say this but, please?”

    1. I have NEVER put pressure on you to post under your real name. If I have, then show me where, please, and I will retract that statement and apologise as necessary.
    I have, over the past months, usually referred to you by your chosen pen-name of the week; I have often referred to you by a hyphenated list of your chosen pen-names.

    I HAVE questioned, on several occasions, how you can possibly deny to address individuals’ questions under the preposterous reasoning that they post under assumed names - therefore in your egotistical eye they are unworthy, when you have done nothing BUT post under assumed names since day one - until yesterday.

    YOU have changed your name SEVERAL TIMES (no doubt in line with the ‘Realising Reality’ that any scrap of life or credibility left in the last alias has finally extinguished…). I have posted on this site for now well over a year, ALWAYS with the same name - as have MANY others. We know who we are individually - and that is all that matters. Who 'rantnrave' is does not matter to me. We agree on some matters; we disagree on others. We debate the points.

    2. Sir, you state that I am making very few valid comments? Firstly, in response to every LIE you utter, I am directing readers to the truth, as written in YOUR blog; on YOUR website, BY YOU!
    Secondly, I think if you go back over the last six months or so I have raised HUNDREDS of questions which you have ducked, dived, shirked and squirmed out of answering.

    Would you like me to list THOSE, for the avoidance of doubt? Trust me, one way or another, you are going to answer them...

    Thirdly, if the site owners or for that matter certain other posters on this site want to tell me I am producing irrelevant and unwelcome comments, then I shall cease to do so. YOU SIMPLY DO NOT LIKE BEING QUESTIONED BY ME - that is a MASSIVE distance away from what you claim to be the problem.

    Then to this:
    “Specifically to PeeBee. You seem to go to great lengths to say you are not an estate agent, currently, yet you seem to guard the reputation of those who are, as if they need your full protection.
    You seem to wish to protect yourself from being identified at all costs, yet you wanted to 'out' my identity. If I had offered a shred of evidence that I was qualified, you would have been unconvinced so you had to do the check, because it had to be to your satisfaction.”
    I do not go to great lengths to say I am not an Agent, I SIMPLY NEED TO KEEP REMINDING YOU OF THE FACT! You often refer to me in the same breath as Agents; you bundle me in with them. Whilst I quickly and sincerely add that have NO PROBLEM with this – after all, I was proud to be one for over a decade – I make my point as an individual who has both no vested interest and EVERY vested interest in the Agency industry. As a potential seller; a potential buyer; a good friend to many, many Agents across the land (can YOU claim that last one…?), as well as in my current employment (which has NO BEARING on the discussions so why should I bore you with it?) the smooth running of the property industry is my life. I have worked within it for 33 years, and in my own little way, I have made a difference. Some of the people I have been involved with have slightly changed the way they approach certain aspects of their day-to-day job, following my suggestions. The very same way that certain people have affected me in the ways that I think and operate.

    I DO NOT consider that Agents require – or WANT – my ‘protection’. Unlike some, I have NO EGO, no GAIN to make from this. What I say is because I BELIEVE IT! You give mixed signals: on one hand you want Agents to all bow to your ideas; to your all-seeing wisdom and your ‘cure’ for a market that was opened CENTURIES BEFORE YOUR (and my…) BIRTH and will go on CENTURIES AFTER YOUR (and my…) DEATH. It has – and will – evolve naturally. It does NOT need to be, and can not be, reinvented by one person, because one person does not have anything other than one millionth of one nanopercent of the say in how it should work. YOU simply do not comprehend how insignificant you are, Mr Hendry. Me? – I figured out YEARS AGO that I am the smallest of teeth in the smallest of cogs in the smallest of parts in the biggest of machines EVER to be conceived. Like the Basílica i Temple Expiatori de la Sagrada Familia, it is work in progress LONG after the death of the ‘creator’ – however the property market ‘machine’ will NEVER be ‘complete’!
    As far as ‘protecting my identity’ – nah, mate. Just that NO-ONE gives a shizzle! If I give you another name to call me, will it make a difference? Will what I say be more or less valid? Do I hide behind the name ‘PeeBee’? – not to all those that know me by that very nickname, I don’t. Would it make a difference to what I write if I used another name – absolutely not! What I say to you on here I would say to your face – PLUS SOME! Luckily for you, that will never happen.

    IF, by the way, you HAD offered the evidence of your ex-professional standing (as originally requested I believe by GEORGE DAWS, not me…), then you would have saved yourself a raft of pain. It was simply ANOTHER question you continually shirked, therefore I continued (as did others…) to ask. As far as I am concerned, it matters not now – my opinions of you and your ideas are now pretty much cast in granite. Whatever professional grounding you may or may not have had is irrelevant. Hitler was a painter and decorator – so what? Wielding a roller and a fitch does not make yer average decorator a mass-murdering dictator in waiting…

    I read Robert’s last entry with some confusion – and I hasten to add, with some disappointment if I read it correctly. “I have enjoyed our dialogue but must get back to what I ought to be doing. Catch you soon!” Robert, please confirm whether you are disengaging, or simply awaiting Mr Hendry, next episode before reposting?

    Note Robert’s words, Mr Hendry:
    “Peter, I think without really answering any of the many questions people want ask you we have established what you are trying to achieve and your motivation for doing so.”

    Looks like YOU have managed to convince YET ANOTHER that you are up to no good - nas far as the property market and the property industry are concerned, at least. Congratulations. Robert was being MORE than fair to you - you should have kept him sweet.

    • 24 March 2011 13:08 PM
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    wardy: Don't worry, I haven't bowed to Mr Hendry and left the building!

    I will, however, apologise in advance to everyone for the next post in response to the gent's last offerings.

    HOPEFULLY, I will manage to keep mine relatively civil (I am currently on the seventh draft for obvious reasons...) - one thing for CERTAIN, is that it will be a long one... so sorry to you all.

    EXCEPT ONE!

    • 24 March 2011 11:56 AM
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    Hello Robert,
    Oh dear!!! We Do have a fundamental here!
    You said:
    "but the point I picked out of that Radio 4 program was that market has a tendency to sort itself out."

    I'm sorry to keep appearing to contradict or appear so nit-picking to many but …

    They were actually saying that markets, if left to their own devices (without being acted upon externally), tend to be UNstable, and do not sort themselves out.

    Oh dear, we're not getting very far here are we ;-o)

    • 24 March 2011 11:39 AM
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    “I imagine, by comparison with me, the contact you have had with agents, and the reason for that contact is less to do with their marketing methods, i.e. how they actually win vendor's instructions and later try and find buyers for their houses, and more about facilitating their software needs. I am asking you here”
    Every ounce of what I learnt as an Estate Agent and studying for ISVA ha been put to test on a weekly basis of how to win profitable instructions, keep the instructions and sell more property than you can ever imagine. Arriving in any town for the first time meant researching the local market for prices and the competition of whoever was being presented to. It required an assessment of how the Agent operated and what their staff were up to.
    At the Property Computer shows in Manchester, Leeds and the various venues in London there was no control over who would want to scrutinise the software and test my understanding of the industry; Estate Agents, Surveyors, Accountants, Auditors, Consultants and worse of all for probing questions were students from College of Estate Management.
    I learnt lots from all those meetings and but the biggest lesson is respect who you are trying to sell to.

    Peter, I think without really answering any of the many questions people want ask you we have established what you are trying to achieve and your motivation for doing so. I think you have to overcome the objections your customers have face to face or screen to screen with them. Time will tell if you manage to change or stabilise the market but the point I picked out of that Radio 4 program was that market has a tendency to sort itself out.
    I have enjoyed our dialogue but must get back to what I ought to be doing. Catch you soon!

    Best regards

    Robert

    • 24 March 2011 11:16 AM
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    Oh Peter....
    I’m not judging you. You have continually proved you have no idea what you are talking about.
    I’m not biting this time.
    BTW, Nice try to get rid of PeeBee. I fear he may continue to point out the above.

    • 24 March 2011 11:06 AM
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    Wardy, FINAL answer. So you know how much I know exactly, do you??? How come!
    I know what 'I' know, but I don't deign to think I know what you are going to say next, nor if you are not going to answer the way I want you to, nor am I going to judge you, as a practicing estate agent, to be a waste of time. Actually people should simply not judge others - at all, but I doubt that we'll agree that one. My advice is, lets stick to what we have each said, and discuss that.

    OK, to try and comment of your earlier post. Sorry, there IS such a thing as 'market value'. Values can be determined in advance of deals being struck. I guess that unless and until we have agreed that fundamental concept, there isn't going to be much to keep blogging back and forth about.

    • 24 March 2011 10:51 AM
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    ‘Wardy, you said’:
    "You may think its pants but at the end of the day I get invited out to value property, you don’t. I sell property, you don’t. "

    That had nothing to do with ego's and bank balance. You are commentating on a topic you know literally nothing about. You swerve every question asked at you. You are truly a waste of time.

    • 24 March 2011 10:24 AM
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    Before Robert comes back, maybe I should deal with the two last posts as best I can (to save him from having to comment on this stuff).

    Specifically to PeeBee. You seem to go to great lengths to say you are not an estate agent, currently, yet you seem to guard the reputation of those who are, as if they need your full protection.
    You seem to wish to protect yourself from being identified at all costs, yet you wanted to 'out' my identity. If I had offered a shred of evidence that I was qualified, you would have been unconvinced so you had to do the check, because it had to be to your satisfaction.

    An easy route, that now occurs to me, would have been to have asked David Dalby of RICS. He would vouch for my true existence, if asked because he knows all about the issues I've raised. As a result I would welcome him on this blog to discuss the central issues and bring his perspective into this forum.

    PeeBee, I do thank you for the contribution you have made to these discussions, even though we don't have much common ground. Having now achieved what you set out to do, in getting me to post under my real name, you seem to be making few valid comments here, and so I am wondering if you might prefer to concentrate on the many other EAT blog subjects available, rather than continue on this one? I slightly hesitate to say this but, please?

    Wardy, you said:
    "You may think its pants but at the end of the day I get invited out to value property, you don’t. I sell property, you don’t. "

    ANS:
    You don't see it. This is not about whether you earn more than me. This is not about our egos!
    It is about improving the way the housing market performs, by being skilled in what we each do.
    If you're going to post hear, please post something relevant to the thread itself. Please?

    • 24 March 2011 10:15 AM
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    ....and yet still nothing.
    Well that’s me, I'm done. Not one answer and any suggestions made to you are dismissed as pants. You may think its pants but at the end of the day I get invited out to value property, you don’t. I sell property, you don’t.

    Peter I hope you lose every penny of the £5 you have invested in this little venture.

    I await your next your next topic of discussion with baited breath. Probably some thing along the lines of 'all estate agents should be 70 year old retired surveyors'
    It should be a cracking read.

    • 24 March 2011 09:51 AM
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    "Here's one I wanted to throw in:
    National income in the UK has fallen year on year but average house prices have not. Something doesn't quite add up here: - Whats going wrong and why?"

    Here's a FEW that I would like to throw in, using YOUR starting phrase "National income in the UK has fallen year on year but...:

    Bread
    Eggs
    Potatoes
    Meat
    Vegetables
    Fuel
    Road Fund Duty
    Precious Metals
    Bottled Water
    Pampers
    ...have not. What's THAT about, eh, Mr Hendry?

    Don't the people who sell these think THEY should reduce to meet the market?

    You utter, utter... you know what? - for once, I cannot muster a single word.

    • 23 March 2011 22:46 PM
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    "Paging PeeBee (lets get this out of the way whilst writing): Suggest you try your local library, or the council offices (or a friendly corporate firm of chartered surveyors)."

    Jeez - if I'd thought of that I wouldn't have needed to write to the Compliance department of the RICS to ascertain the information due to it being unreasonably withheld...

    See how much bother you have put everyone to? A simple answer would have saved them all that back-checking - however somehow I feel pretty certain that the very mention of Peter Wills Hendry will raise someone's hackles down at Parliament Square...

    • 23 March 2011 22:32 PM
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    "Nor am I suggesting that 'online technology' can replace estate agency, absolutely not."

    Here I go again...
    * As estate agents are not prepared to 'value' houses accurately, do your own sales and marketing here
    * Sell or let your house without estate agents
    * Sell or let your house direct. This site allows you to move house without having to use estate agency. Everything needed, is here and online help is available from us.
    * You can now sell or let independently from estate agents by using the Internet.
    * Change the way houses are sold

    AND THAT IS ONLY PAGE ONE OF YOUR SITE!

    Mr Hendry - IF you are intending to continuing to lie with virtually EVERY sentence you type - then at least make them good ones, please!!

    STOP insulting the collective intelligences of the property industry that have very quickly sussed you for what you are. The rest of the world will now be VERY close behind, and YOU HAVE PROVIDED THE MAKINGS OF YOUR OWN DOWNFALL!

    • 23 March 2011 22:20 PM
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    Hello Robert,
    You said:
    Thank for the explanation of what Property search is not, is it correct to say that it is your version of a Property Portal?
    YES
    If so then there is a definite need to do some bridge building if you want to work with Agents.
    YES to that too.

    Well Robert, I don't want to be branded as the one who struts about with his antlers out all the time, even if it were the rutting season!
    I'm not saying that estate agency is broken beyond repair. Nor am I suggesting that 'online technology' can replace estate agency, absolutely not.
    On the other hand I am thinking that some people could use technology to help them to successfully sell or let their own house, but I do stress some people, not everybody. (That's probably enough about Property Match).

    What I am trying to achieve by, well, banging the table really, is to get those wishing to streamline and improve the work of estate agents, to see what needs doing first of all. I can only do this by speaking about things which seem to me to be bad, bad things that I have seen happening first hand.
    I'm not saying "I'm right and everyone else is wrong!" I'm saying opposing views can and should result in a truer picture emerging of what needs to be done.

    I imagine, by comparison with me, the contact you have had with agents, and the reason for that contact is less to do with their marketing methods, i.e. how they actually win vendor's instructions and later try and find buyers for their houses, and more about facilitating their software needs. I am asking you here, rather than telling you.

    I totally rate the BBC R4 prog. you pointed us to. I've listened to all of it and hope to listen to the final episode next week because it covers exactly what needs to be understood by the major players in the housing market, including estate agents.

    In this weeks episode they explained a situation, for example, where if its not selling, the vendor (or the agent) has got to lower the price, or (go and do something else!!). They explain that markets crashing are the result of markets not working properly on their own.
    They explain that most markets are inherently UNstable and need skilled operators, or drivers, like cars do or aeroplanes do (my words).
    People operating in markets, who don't know enough, contribute to the failure of the market they work in.
    I think all market-makers, including estate agents for example need a good solid grounding in economic theory and this radio programme emphasises that for me.

    I don't want to be negative, more than I can possibly help, but have, I'm afraid, got to say to Wardy, your understanding of market value is seriously pants. I don't know if you would understand any of what the program explains. I don't know what to suggest but will think on it.

    Here's one I wanted to throw in:
    National income in the UK has fallen year on year but average house prices have not. Something doesn't quite add up here: - Whats going wrong and why?

    Paging PeeBee (lets get this out of the way whilst writing): Suggest you try your local library, or the council offices (or a friendly corporate firm of chartered surveyors).

    I'd better pause again for now.
    Peter

    • 23 March 2011 21:46 PM
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    Thank for the explanation of what Property search is not, is it correct to say that it is your version of a Property Portal?
    If so then there is a definite need to do some bridge building if you want to work with Agents.

    If Property Match is a glimpse of the post agent future, great! I am in the business of developing the future too but not quite at your pace.

    I will take a lot of personal for what Estate Agency has become along with Cliff, Iain, Geoff, Gary, Mike, Les, Richard and a host of names that now escape me who developed Dos and Windows (3 through to Vista) software for Estate agency. Software and latterly portals have allowed staff to delegate their Agency responsibilities to the screen and keyboard and “Kompooter sez no" is a bit too common. There are not many of us 1st and 2nd generation software blokes around anymore so rather than blame Estate Agency in general. It is fine to blame me.

    I won't say that Estate Agency is broken and definitely do not think that Agents are at fault. My opinion is that it is down to technology and technology suppliers to heal the damage that the first and second generation of software has done, and that 3rd time round the tree we are all older and wiser about who and what we allow to interfere with an industry of good, honest and kind people. You might dismiss that as slush or untrue but since 1986 I have met less than a dozen individual agents from the many thousands I have had dealings with whom fall outside those attributes. Maybe I am lucky but I do speak as I find.

    Honestly Peter I am struggling to see what you will gain from banging heads with the posters on EAT. If this were a competition to see who is the smartest or who has the biggest Antlers, I would say carry on you are doing a fine job of holding your own and frustrating the hell out of everyone. If it is about developing a working relationship with the industry, I hope you have a lot of fight left in you yet.

    Not quite changing the subject here is a link to Radio 4 from this afternoon, and interesting half hour which I am sure the individual poles of this discussion will interpret in opposite ways.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zm0hy

    The Story of Economics, Cogs (1630 R4 today if the link doesn’t work)

    • 23 March 2011 19:31 PM
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    Mr Hendry, I have answered your direct question, please extend the courtesy.
    Do you accept that if agent X puts a property for sell directly in front of 5000 potential home buyers he is likely to gain more interest and a better price than agent Y who markets to just 100?

    • 23 March 2011 19:17 PM
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    So you want to answer a question with a question in a sort of ‘lets see if his answer is better than mine’ style. Fair enough
    Market value in the context you speak of does not exist. The true value of a property can only be seen on the day of completion. The market can change, your applicant base (weekly) and different agents with different marketing techniques can change the price the vendor ultimately achieves. There is no such thing as a one hat fits all market value. If PeeBee sells 27 Acacia Ave for £200,000 that does not mean to say Number 29 has a market value of £200,000 a month later. PeeBee may have had 3 people chewing at the bit for No 27, but now a month later he has five people after 29. Like you keep saying, economic law, supply and demand, this pushes the price up. 29 sells for £215,000
    What I think you are trying to promote is this.
    27 sold for £200,000 thus market value dictates £200,000 for number 29.
    First viewing, offer of asking price. Chuffed you sold it? You shouldn’t be. You have just cost your client £15,000.

    • 23 March 2011 19:08 PM
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    "PeeBee: In an attempt to quell your vociferousness particularly about my qualifications, may I say that all you would need to have done is to find any copy of the RICS yearbook (published annually) between 1975 and 2007 and look me up under 'H'."
    Ahhh - so you're addressing me again, are you? Okay - in response: That would be fine, Mr Hendry, IF I had access to those publications, wouldn't it? They aren't exactly library material - and some of my RICS acquaintances don't deem it necessary to pay a lot of money for what they don't need to know on a yearly basis.

    I remind you that although I am interested in the information, it is several others also who have requested you provide what they seek - proof that you are what you claim to be. Is it SO difficult to just give them (and me) what they ask, and thereby end that part of the debate at least?

    If you continue to play cat and mouse, I am in no doubt that the information will eventually surface somehow. I look forward to that day.

    "As things stand, if people come to me and ask whether it is best to sell through an estate agent, I cannot, hand on heart, say yes." Sorry Robert - I appreciate this was said in answer to you - but come on, Mr Hendry! People DON'T HAVE to come to you to ask anything - YOU PLASTER IT ALL OVER THE INTERNET!

    The ONLY WAY someone is going to approach 'you', is if they find your site online. Before they even get to your contact details you bombard them with the anti-Agent propaganda that I have pasted here. I cannot believe that you are so impervious to the truth being forced in your face yet you claim to have no beef with those in the property industry. To quote YET ANOTHER source, propertyowl, referring to your 'three months marketing then Agent must buy' brainstorm...:
    "This chap is a surveyor and whilst no doubt intelligent, he sounds more like a disgruntled punter with an axe to grind and an ill thought out suggestion."

    OR someone with a series of hidden agendae - which I have maintained from day one. I have NO HIDDEN AGENDA. IF I see someone whi is, in my opinion, acting suspiciously, in a shop; in a street, then I report what I see to whatever authorities seem appropriate, in the expectation that they deal with the situation, as I would hope any good citizen would.

    Here, in my opinion, I see someone acting suspiciously.

    I stand to be proven wrong. I would DEARLY LOVE to be proven wrong! In the meantime, I will continue to follow and trust my gut instincts.

    • 23 March 2011 17:06 PM
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    "It seems that currently, there are far more sellers that buyers and that there is a substantial imbalance."

    Mr Hendry (sorry - I know I should be addressing this through Robert in order to please you but if nothing else this charade has made me realise I'm a direct kind of guy...) - welcome to the market. ANY market.

    It is called supply and demand. The "economic principle" as you call it. There is a buyers' market; there is a sellers' market. At present, it seems that it is a buyers' market applying what you say above.

    NOT TRUE. The buyers are not looking 'whole-of-market'. They have defined parameters: maximums of price; minimums of bedrooms; whether there is elbow room in the downstairs wc for reading purposes; and colour of the living room carpet being several parameters that influence their decisions. IF 27 Acacia Avenue comes up for sale, and there is ONE person waiting for a house just like 27 Acacia Avenue, then consider it sold. It MIGHT go for the Asking Price; it MIGHT go for a little less. One thing for certain - it WON'T GO FOR MORE. UNLESS, of course, TWO people are looking for a house JUST LIKE 27 Acacia Avenue. Or THREE.

    Please take your 'economic principles' - and carefully but firmly put them where direct sunlight won't cause them to fade.

    Sideways.

    Robert: you may want to adapt this, just ever so slightly, to your style of debate when you try to get an answer out of the man...

    • 23 March 2011 16:17 PM
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    Hello Robert,
    It may be an appropriate time to answer a few miscellaneous side-swipes which have come my way recently, whilst time permits.
    Wardy: Sorry but I don't hate estate agents! I may disagree with some of the things they do and believe there is considerable room to improve, but I don't hate estate agents.

    Before I define market value to you, a case-hardened agent, I would prefer to listen first, whilst you define market value please?
    I do think it is important that we all agree upon a sensible definition, don't you?

    Why are my opinions quite so strong? It's because I've been a consummate professional surveyor for quite a while, can see serious shortcomings in the way houses are marketed, and feel there is an increasingly urgent need for something to be done about it. Unfortunately, a lot of my colleagues are 'muzzled' as they cannot speak out whilst under their contracts of employment.

    PeeBee: In an attempt to quell your vociferousness particularly about my qualifications, may I say that all you would need to have done is to find any copy of the RICS yearbook (published annually) between 1975 and 2007 and look me up under 'H'.

    Robert,
    Property Match is not a valuation tool, no. It's not another Tepilo either. Tepilo is free to post on, Property Match is not quite free.
    We do not collate data, we link to it. If agents publish information online, our search engines find it. More importantly for us, if vendors post house sale or let information online with us, everyone finds it.

    I'm afraid a lot of what I currently say about estate gents is controversial yes; but it's only said with the motivation of stimulating debate which might eventually stimulate change for the better.

    As things stand, if people come to me and ask whether it is best to sell through an estate agent, I cannot, hand on heart, say yes.
    If things change for the better, I hope that one day I will be able to say that.

    I'm hoping this debate may help.

    Peter

    • 23 March 2011 15:59 PM
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    Robert,
    I doubt he is building a valuation model for a few reasons.

    1, The data is out of date, many of the properties are listed at incorrect prices, some have been sold, some have been withdrawn. They are still showing 'for sale' on property match. As you know Robert they are in direct breach of PMA.

    2, The listings them self’s are shown along side google adds. The intention is to divert traffic away from site with advertising.

    3, We can not ascertain where the data is being scraped from. (if I did I could put a stop to it) and therefore is not credible.
    p.s Would be interested if you know about this

    • 23 March 2011 11:16 AM
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    Robert: "It has to be clear if you wanting to work with agents, for agents or are setting up in comptetion to agents."

    From his website:
    * As estate agents are not prepared to 'value' houses accurately, do your own sales and marketing here
    * Sell or let your house without an estate agent
    *This site allows you to move house without having to use estate agency. Everything needed, is here and online help is available from us.
    * There is no need to use an agent to do these things anymore.
    * This site is also in direct competition with free sites, as well as estate agents. We rely on achieving substantially better results than either can achieve.
    * Our market research indicates that house-price booms, followed by slumps on a cyclical basis, are caused by estate agents competing with each other to win instructions by over-exaggerating asking prices to clients.
    * Well, the first thing to do to achieve this, is to stop using estate agents and instead, move to selling houses direct online.

    DO I NEED TO GO ON?

    • 23 March 2011 11:06 AM
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    I have been trying to place your mention of Property Match into the context of our discussion. Having re-read a lot of the posts in this thread I am wondering if the new tool for Estate Agents you are proposing is actually a valuation tool.

    Is it your intention that rather than building Property Match into another Tepillo you are trying to collate data for the purpose of a comprehensive comparable database which becomes a valuation service?

    You can see from Peebee's last post that your Blogs and Tweets have painted a definite Anti Agent Agenda. I understand that being controversial has given you fantastic column centimetre coverage but what I don't understand is that if as you say Agents perform a vital role, Why the opinions in your various media coverage has been quite so strong.

    Surely if Agents have a vital role and ultimately their data will 90% fuel your product, is it wise to take this controversial marketing so far?

    If I were your Marketing Director, I think I would advise that you come clean about what you are tyring to produce, make it clear who the customers are and when it is all going to be ready. It has to be clear if you wanting to work with agents, for agents or are setting up in comptetion to agents.

    If agents are going to be your competition say what you like and what you feel about the whole property industry, but if you need agents for their data or their custom, my opinion is that your bridge is fairly well burnt already and you need to build a new one.

    • 23 March 2011 10:15 AM
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    ....and so Robert
    You have put forward an extremely valid point about lending. One that the majority of us know to be true and despite your attempts to be courteous and polite, this is what you get.

    'Those who try to argue that it's the fault of the mortgage companies for not lending are misleading themselves'

    So RR please define 'market value'

    Robert, You have more patience than me my friend.

    p.s after seeing the tweets its clear you dislike agents, lets put that one to bed shall we.

    • 23 March 2011 09:32 AM
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    Hello Robert,
    First, let no-one be an any doubt that the housing market is in crisis. This will be covered in today's budget specifically. The Gov. will be attempting to bolster the purchasing power of FTBs (more on that later).

    Secondly, I don't dislike estate agents. In fact I think they perform a vital role in the market place.

    The main thrust of my proposals is that they might like to consider expanding their understanding of one or two things.
    One such example is, what actually creates 'current open market values'.
    Now I accept that some amongst a group of practitioners will be reluctant to learn new things, but I don't believe thatchy should dictate to the rest of the group, which may wll, in fact, be interested in finding out things that are relevant to furthering their good practices.

    You said:
    I disagree with your reason of why the market is out of kilter. Average property prices are not too high if there is continued applicant competition/demand and if mortgage funding is available to meet agreed sale prices. Mortgage restrictions rather than a reduction in demand are controlling some prices right now. Those mortgage restrictions are new to us all, Government, Banks, Agents, Vendors and Applicants.


    ANS:
    We seem to agree that the market IS out of kilter. It seems that currently, there are far more sellers that buyers and that there is a substantial imbalance.

    There is continued applicant competition/demand for houses but mortgage funding is not currently available to meet agreed sale prices.
    You are suggesting that mortgage restrictions, rather than a reduction in demand, are 'controlling' some prices right now.

    Well yes I seem to be in agreement. However, I would go on to say IF mortgage restrictions, rather than a reduction in demand, are controlling some prices right now, then prices need to reflect that.
    As it's a permanent feature of the market (currently at least), it's no good thinking that prices should be where they were, just as if there were no mortgage restrictions. There is a shortage of mortgages, so prices need to be adjusted. There is no other possibility.

    Those who try to argue that it's the fault of the mortgage companies for not lending are misleading themselves and anyone who considers believing such faulty reasoning.
    These days price depends upon mortgage availability. That may be true but mortgage availability should not determine price. [Market value itself is not a function of mortgage availability.]

    Strictly, market value should not depend upon or be subject to mortgage availability at all. Market value should be closely connected with cash consideration. In actual fact, anything involving borrowing, when you think about it, distorts real market value because then, a house for example, could only be attained subject to the availability of bank or building society finance which would be augmenting the purchasing power of the buyer. This would create an 'artificial' market value because if (as has recently happened) finance no longer becomes available to the same extent, prices are affected as a direct result.

    It's a very interesting and important facet, to understand what true current market value is, how it is created, and what parameters current market value depends upon for its sustenance.

    What I'm saying is that the present Government's handing out of tax breaks for first time buyers may help to bolster the prices they may pay, but I question whether this is the best way forward.

    Builders can make handsome profits on the prices they already charge for new houses, so why do we need to increase these?
    Surely, if instead of doing that we allowed the prices of new or first-time buy houses to fall, bringing these closer within reach of FTB's pockets, builders would continue to survive. They may have to revalue the amount they ascribe to the plot values, but they would survive.

    Now I know that such a policy has been unpopular with successive Governments for certain other reasons, but I still currently hold the view that doing this would be a better policy than loading FTBs with yet more debt by way of providing interest-free loans from both banks and builders to top up their already stretched loan-to-income ratios.

    I'm not alone in holding this view.
    Lee Smales posted today in the Times online, March 23, 2011 5:10 AM
    "Surely offering 20% of the loan as, effectively, a government subsidy will just encourage those who can't really afford to buy to step into the market?
If / when the market declines, or the person can't afford to pay the loan, then the government bears 20% of the losses.... who will get the blame then?"

"Isn't this what started the GFC in the 1st place, and inflated house prices before-hand; selling property to those who can't afford to buy it."

    I'd better pause for now.

    Peter

    • 23 March 2011 08:14 AM
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    Robert: "I think if we can get rid of the notion that you don’t like Estate Agents we will make headway.

    Hmmm... I wonder how that "notion" came about?

    Mr Hendry'sTwittering, maybe? -
    * Posts on this page explain what's bad about estate agents.It examines the one who made a lot from the game:
    * Estate agents know that if they started being honest about house prices, other agents would just exaggerate them and take all the business!!
    * Maybe estate agents don't have the expertise to advise owners what price to market a property at? Therefore they just agree with the owner!!
    * Agents have misrepresented the market, so avoid:
    * Why have agents taken on so much property at prices that suggest only 40% of it can sell in the year?
    * Estate agents have completely ruined the market's flow
    * Its important to decide whether your agent is being your honest adviser OR just another dishonest broker with only their interests at heart.
    * Estate agents misrepresent the true state of the market
    * What's the difference between The Red Arrows and estate agents? One flies in tight formation, the other has house prices all over the place.
    * WE should bring change to the hopeless way houses are marketed in this country.
    * You don't need agents to play Monopoly, so why would anyone need them in the real housing market either?
    * Clean-up estate agency.
    * Weathermen do not influence the weather and in the same way, estate agents should not influence house prices.
    * Agents blame their own clients for asking too much when prices are rising, and the media for spooking people when the market is falling, but the one common denominator in all this is:- the estate agent.
    * Estate agency has lost both its skill of doing accurate appraisals and its trustworthiness. Theres only one alternative: (NO PRIZES for guessing what the link led to...)
    * If I were to start up a 'straight' estate agency for the whole UK, why wouldn't it succeed? Because of UNscrupulous agents trading UNfairly.


    Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...

    I rest my case, M'Lud.

    • 22 March 2011 23:58 PM
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    Thank you for the reply Peter, I think if we can get rid of the notion that you don’t like Estate Agents we will make headway.
    I have asked them to respect you and your opinions and would ask that you reciprocate.
    Anyone involved in sales of any kind has an understanding of supply and demand economics. My experience of meeting with agents all over the country is that they fully understand the need to win saleable instructions. Overpriced properties simply sit on the books racking up advertising cost and eat into already tight profit margins.
    Sensible and experienced agents simply allow Over, Price and Co. to take the initial instruction and step in 6 weeks later with a primed purchaser to pick up a multi-agency fee. There is no reason or motivation for Agents to over value property.
    I agree that supply and demand is the main control over property prices however I disagree with your reason of why the market is out of kilter. Average property prices are not too high if there is continued applicant competition/demand and if mortgage funding is available to meet agreed sale prices. Mortgage restrictions rather than a reduction in demand are controlling some prices right now. Those mortgage restrictions are new to us all, Government, Banks, Agents, Vendors and Applicants.

    • 22 March 2011 20:34 PM
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    What? is that it?
    Listen, you are openly critising EA's in the way they value property.
    ' they would need to start taking on-board a little economics theory,'
    and
    'It wouldn't be difficult to lessen this damage by changing the way houses are assessed market appraisal time.' These are not answers, thats just blowing hot air.
    How RR? what should we do?

    • 22 March 2011 18:14 PM
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    Robert,
    I'm sorry but working as part of the Property Match team, I'm not in a position on comment on detailed policy or methodology of that service, other than to say the service is online because of the need to offer vendors and purchasers the possibility of a better way to transact house sales and lettings across the UK.

    --
    You said:
    Markets work depending on prices. The inescapable reason why the housing market is not and has not been trading at adequate levels of completed transactions is because the prices currently being quoted are too high.

    I struggle with this, without a definition of "adequate" it is not possible comment on this. I have known agencies with just 7 properties on their books at any one time and if just 3 of them sold in a financial year that was a very good year. Conversely I have seen Agencies where 2 sales per week were expected from every negotiator anything less was a bad year.
    Neither you nor I can comment on what is adequate for the individual businesses concerned.

    ANS:
    Well, what I am suggesting is that using economic laws of supply and demand, if the true market price is being accepted, supply and demand will balance - across the whole market, i.e. the UK.

    In theory, nobody wanting to sell will fail to sell and nobody wanting to buy will fail to buy.
    There are obviously only two ways this market model can slide OUT of balance.
    1. If asking prices go too high.
    2. If asking prices go too low.

    1. If they go too high, more vendors will fail to find buyers than buyers will fail to find houses to buy.

    2. If they go too low, more buyers will fail to find houses to buy and vendors will mostly all sell.

    Paging forward a bit, I understand that this present Government is talking about wanting the housing market to become a more 'stable' market, price-wise. That's good for everyone, in the long run.

    What I'm saying is that if estate agents were to go along with that notion, and wanted to help the dear old Government in their quest to achieve it, they would need to start taking on-board a little economics theory, to help themselves to understand why the market is behaving in the different ways that it actually does.

    --
    The Government might be struggling a bit if volumes sales volumes are low, stamp duty, tax and vat from the Property profession formed a sizeable chunk of income for the Labour administration.
    Prices too high being the cause of the problem? In my opinion that is not the case. The region variation of supply, demand and transactions apparent in the stories published and commented on in Estate Agent Today means that it is not possible to say that all prices are too high.

    ANS:
    I am not so concerned with the taxes that might, or might not, flow in this at present. That's maybe a bit too complex for me, right now.
    Anyway, Labour have gone, leaving the country's coffers empty and rather a lot of IOU's as well.
    I agree it is not possible to say that all prices are too high. In fact my research of asking prices suggests that they are up, down, and all over the place. Few are close to actual current market value.
    Most are based upon what the vendor may hope for, plus a bit! The problem with this is, it created chaos in the marketplace. The result of this chaos, in my opinion, is that the the levels of transaction achievable, become reduced. This in turn hurts estate agents, as well as everyone else involved. It wouldn't be difficult to lessen this damage by changing the way houses are assessed market appraisal time.

    I know this is a bit brief, a bit succinct, maybe a bit difficult to understand on first glance. I'd like to crave your indulgence a while, so that we could perhaps examine some of these ideas in a little more detail, when possible.

    Thanks for centralising the questions. I think this discussion could become fruitful, if people want that.
    One thing, maybe those who are in favour of taking this debate further in this way should comment alongside our debate, as they are now doing, and you and I will just keep playing tennis with one ball in the meantime. How does that sound?
    regards
    Peter

    • 22 March 2011 17:51 PM
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    This isn't going to be easy, I have been watching, chuckling and getting frustrated for the whole of the saga.

    There are some perfectly valid questions that need answering and in the spirit of co-operation I am sure Peter won't mind answering the valid ones without me needing to go through the Ask Peter/ Tell Peebee/Wardy routine.

    There are some questions too that are thinly veiled snipes, those are best put to one side!

    Peter wants me to take it in turns replying to his posts so I can't do any more for the time being (It’s his turn). I suspect there will be a fairly long post on its way and hopefully Peter will include replies to the points he considers important.

    Let's see.

    • 22 March 2011 17:09 PM
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    I would like to add....

    I went to an effort at the start this post to make a relevant point and detail my own valuing model. That is what the article is about. From the point of a phone call/research involved/knocking on the door. I even offered RR a chance to tell me how in his opinion it could improved. This was long before the sniping, name calling and threats of legal action.
    Did he answer? the most relevant post on this article?
    Why not? Couldn’t be bothered? Or how about simply doesn’t know.

    'There is an urgent need for estate agents to add new tools to their toolkit, in the present market conditions.'

    This should read: I have no idea how estate agents value and am not able to help in any way shape or form.

    I shall try again. What tools do I need Mr Hendry?
    In fact forget it. Until we have established that you are at least something other than someone promoting a private sellers site then I couldn’t care less.

    • 22 March 2011 16:30 PM
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    Robert: Okay - I appreciate your wish to play Devils' Advocate here, which is why I suggested a 'neutral' such as Rosalind.

    HOWEVER, I would suggest a set of game rules are adopted here which both players agree to play to. If you are to be representative of the people who require answers, the least I would expect is that you listen to the cries of those who agree to your representation. By this, I refer to your comment:
    "Simply by posting you were RICS till 2007 answers a couple of those that wanted to know your background."
    Actually, that does NOT answer anything. Using your own analogy from an earlier post, I could be a butcher but post that I am an FRCS, and therefore licensed to carry out brain surgery, if that were the case.

    If you have followed the history of this gent on EAT, several posters have asked many times for PROOF of Mr Hendry's qualifications. He has agreed to provide our spokesperson with "convincing documentary evidence of this" - I request that you ascertain this information; verify it with the relevant bodies, and confirm to all. Please.

    The problem that we have always had here is fourfold.
    1. That several posters fired questions 'all at once' (by that I mean that Mr Hendry did not answer the individuals before another asked a similar or different question...)
    2. Mr Hendry chose to ignore certain questions/certain individuals
    3. Mr Hendry answered a question WITH a question, or with no substance to the question - which then resulted in further questioning which again, did not receive the decency of acknowledgement.
    4. Questions and/or individuals responded to thus; "Go away."
    I am sure that there are several OTHER difficulties that we have encountered. Please remember that these dialogues go back now over a six-months period - possibly more.

    wardy has made a very valid argument that he does not wish any individual to seek answers to his questions. I was prepared to agree to Hendry's request, simply to get the answers. I was accused (in the nicest possible way, AoS ;0) ) recently of being intimidating - so I saw this as a way of reducing pressure and allowing debate to flow.

    I am still happy for this to happen - but I require answers to what I consider questions of utmost validity in ascertaining the real purpose of Mr Hendry's alleged crusade against the ills of the housing market and industry.

    If you are not prepared to ask them on my behalf - then I will ask them myself UNTIL they are answered.

    At the minute, this is a parody. This is an excerpt the script we are currently performing from:

    PeeBee: "Robert, please ask Mr Hendry this will you - blah, blah...?"

    Robert: "Peter, can I ask you - blah, blah...?"

    RR: "WHOOOOOA Robert... I am only prepared to answer questions from CEOs of Estate Agent Professional bodies or above - and only one question at a time, please..."

    If that is the case, then I am afraid that your generous offer to step into the breach will be fruitless, and I shall happily email mine to PBK and ask him to ask them on my behalf...

    Or would Mr Hendry rather have them from a PPNAEA? I can always ask another old mate a favour if he wishes... ;0)

    • 22 March 2011 15:48 PM
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    There is nothing to stop anyone commenting on anything Peter writes or anything I write Wardy. It is just that Peter only wants to respond to one person who isn’t posting with a stage name. That doesn’t stop the debate and I will be happy to post replies to non-Peter posts.

    • 22 March 2011 15:23 PM
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    So we are going down the line of a two person debate on a public forum...interesting. You could always just swop emails?
    How can you insist on debating only with people you see fit? Don’t get me wrong, I know WHY you want to, I just don’t see how you think you can get away with it.
    Most importantly,
    Why should we (the industry) debate with you? I mean seriously who are you?
    What have you done? what have you achieved?
    The only thing we are able to confirm is the existence of a small (in my opinion) poorly executed website. This in itself is a massive conflict of interests baring in mind the topic.
    This is a forum of industry professionals, many of which I respect hugely. Just who do you think you are to compare your self with us? This has become a fast.

    What exactly are you hoping for RR? Us all to agree with you and immediately wipe 10% of my vals? Dream on.

    • 22 March 2011 14:24 PM
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    @ Peebee
    Out of respect for Peter, is it reasonable to ask that we come on to that after we have gone through this particular blog?

    Once all the bad feeling towards each other is out of the way I suspect Peter might be happy to have normalised rather than polarised discussion with all posters who treat him with respect. Conversely if Peter’s writing style was less flammable, other posters might be encouraged to respect his opinion as different from their own.

    • 22 March 2011 14:09 PM
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    Sorry Peter, I will let you catch up.

    As for the questions others want to ask? A lot of those will probably be answered or become irrelevant as we discuss or investigate what you are trying to say.
    Simply by posting you were RICS till 2007 answers a couple of those that wanted to know your background.

    Regards

    Robert

    • 22 March 2011 13:47 PM
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    Robert: I feel you will have a raft of questions coming your way from those who have failed to get satisfactory responses from Mr Hendry in past. Can I start with this - but this is a completely new query relating to something that I have just uncovered on the gentleman's website.

    WHY are there links, on a SELL/LET BY OWNER website, to HousePriceCrash, PropertySnake, and Agent-Tracker?

    Seems a bit perverse to me...

    • 22 March 2011 13:36 PM
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    Robert,
    (Whooa. Can we try and post alternately please? The following response is to you first questions. I haven't read the next ones yet :-0)

    To start things off, I certainly accept that requiring agents to buy properties that have not sold is a pretty un-workable idea currently. However, it was the idea that initially prompted most of these discussions. It resulted in the publication of the blog article, the main subject of this debate.

    You do not think Agents are routinely overvaluing property …

    One of the primarily reasons for my representations to RICS throughout 2007, was that asking prices bore insufficient relation to actual sale prices (and at a time of swiftly increasing values, things seemed to be getting out of contral).

    Towards the end of 2007 sellers were disappearing from the market, leaving buyers with increasingly little property to choose from also. Valuers were by then having increasing difficulty reconciling the prices being agreed on sales with the advice they had to give lenders, as their professional valuers. Things were coming to a head. If I remember, agents were threatening to sue valuers in increasing numbers!

    I'd seen all this happen in the 70s and felt strongly enough to want to try and help. The financial crash was right around the corner, though I take no pleasure in having known that something was going to blow.

    Thanks for stepping in Robert. Like you, if I don't reply please assume it's because I'm otherwise engaged for the time being and time is a limiting factor here.

    If it is possible for you to put questions which the majority of readers might like answers to, or to have further comment on, I shall do my best to respond.
    Regards,
    Peter

    • 22 March 2011 13:07 PM
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    Markets work depending on prices. The inescapable reason why the housing market is not and has not been trading at adequate levels of completed transactions is because the prices currently being quoted are too high.

    I struggle with this, without a definition of "adequate" it is not possible comment on this. I have known agencies with just 7 properties on their books at any one time and if just 3 of them sold in a financial year that was a very good year. Conversely I have seen Agencies where 2 sales per week were expected from every negotiator anything less was a bad year.
    Neither you nor I can comment on what is adequate for the individual businesses concerned.
    The Government might be struggling a bit if volumes sales volumes are low, stamp duty, tax and vat from the Property profession formed a sizeable chunk of income for the Labour administration.
    Prices too high being the cause of the problem? In my opinion that is not the case. The region variation of supply, demand and transactions apparent in the stories published and commented on in Estate Agent Today means that it is not possible to say that all prices are too high.

    • 22 March 2011 12:56 PM
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    "There is an urgent need for estate agents to add new tools to their toolkit, in the present market conditions"

    I agree and disagree with that, most Agents have a perfectly workable set of tools at their disposal and don’t really need anything else. With any craft or profession knowing what to do with the tools is what counts. I can give a scalpel to a butcher but without training he wouldn't be a surgeon.

    • 22 March 2011 12:32 PM
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    Mr Hendry,

    Please can I call you Peter or Pete or would you prefer this to be kept formal?

    So as everyone knows where I stand;

    Requiring Agents to buy properties that have not sold was an un-workable idea.

    I do not think Agents are routinely overvaluing property to the extent that has been suggested several times on Estate Agent Today.

    If I don't post for a few hours/days it is because I have work to do.

    Regards

    Robert

    • 22 March 2011 12:20 PM
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    "Will I do Mr Hendry?" ENTER THE DRAGON!!

    Welcome to the dogfight, Mr May! Nice to see you.

    If you are to be our Maverick, can I be your wingman? Of course, you have the ability to call upon an illustrious list of Top Guns who all post here - from the actual Agency industry who would dearly wish to fly with you - each and every one would be admirable in the task.

    A bright and shiny squadron of F-14's against one clapped out Fokker... ;0)

    (hope you saw THIS before it was deleted, people!!)

    • 22 March 2011 11:51 AM
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    PeeBee and friends etc., Will Robert May do?

    • 22 March 2011 11:41 AM
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    "To assuage all lingering doubt about whether I was a qualified surveyor before resigning in protest at the lack of attention to the way the housing market was performing in 2007, I would be glad to produce convincing documentary evidence of this to the EAT blogger's chosen representative, in person."

    Look, RR - WHOEVER you show this "convincing documentary evidence" to is simply gonna post the details on here - so just get it over and done with and stop trying to shirk YET another issue. THIS is what you need to produce:
    *Qualification held
    *Where and when gained
    *Registration Number
    If you continue playing silly b*ggers, then we will assume you have no qualification.

    On the subject of "convincing documentary evidence" - do you realise that by using that particular phrase, you have made what you have as "evidence" sound like it is a good quality fake...?

    • 22 March 2011 11:34 AM
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    Will I do Mr Hendry?

    I haven't sold a house in years but act as consultant to agents large and small, chains and franchises. Estate Agency and Property Management.

    I don't know everything and I am certainly less knowledgeable than some of the regular contributors on Estate Agent Today.

    If you are up for it so am I.

    • 22 March 2011 11:19 AM
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    For the avoidance of doubt the last post was mine...

    • 22 March 2011 11:06 AM
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    "Whoops! Didn't mean to have a dig at you personally Peebee." YES YOU DID! You have previously clearly demonstrated no wish to deal with such an insignificant as me - so don't try to hide it now. Don't flatter yourself, anyway - I've already said no.

    "It is important however, that the person chosen is prepared to identify themselves as a real person and not hide behind pseudonyms etc." Says the man who posts as "Realising Reality"; PREVIOUSLY POSTED as Property Match (UK); and even on his own blog goes under the pseudonym of StraightTalkr!

    What a joke. Pity you are FAR from funny...

    • 22 March 2011 11:05 AM
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    Whoops! Didn't mean to have a dig at you personally Peebee.

    It is important however, that the person chosen is prepared to identify themselves as a real person and not hide behind pseudonyms etc.

    • 22 March 2011 10:33 AM
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    Quote of the week: "At least, I was hoping, someone who had managed a successful chain of estate agents rather than simply owned a single shop, or not even that. The reason for this is simply so that the person chosen might have a broad understanding of the issues confronting more senior managers, as well as someone who should knows how to work right at 'the coal face' themselves."

    Mr Hendry - please remember. ALL YOU KNOW ABOUT ME is a six-letter name on screen. You know NOTHING about my previous Agency life. OR what involvement I have now.

    On the other hand... your whole past is available on the same screen - if people know where to look.

    The ironic thing is, YOU are currently writing your future. I suggest you get someone else to take over - you are making it a comic book; a fantasy of smoke and mirrors.

    The type that NO-ONE bothers to read...

    • 22 March 2011 10:14 AM
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    Less than twelve hours ago, I said "He firmly believes he is superior to me, and that I am not worthy of his time (mind you - he does that to an awful lot of people...)."

    This morning - "On the latter's subject, I was rather hoping the person nominated might be someone of some standing within estate agency. I was thinking more along the lines of Peter Bolton King rather than PeeBee."

    There, guys - how much MORE proof do you need?

    Anyways - I couldn't possibly. I don't normally eat through the day - so if I faced up to him in a hungry mood, I'd undoubtedly take him down in one swallow!

    Nom nom nom...

    PBK as spokesperson - now THERE'S a good choice for him to suggest. Pick the one man who is probably LEAST likely to take up the challenge as he is involved in a million and six projects on behalf of a troubled association.

    He'd then claim that YOUR REPRESENTATIVE failed to meet the challenge and claim victory by default!

    Nice try, Mr Hendry. Who would you like as your opponent now? The Admin of the HPC Forum perhaps?

    (sorry, r'n'r - you ain't high enough up the HPC tree to qualify in this man's eyes...)

    • 22 March 2011 10:01 AM
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    You resigned in 2007 because of the performance of the Housing Market? Did you object to it doing so well? In the run up to the peak in 2007 prices had averaged over 11% growth for the previous 6 years!

    I think you need to set your sites a bit higher than PBK, you have on many occasions refused to answer his questions already! If you know what I mean;0

    • 22 March 2011 08:06 AM
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    To assuage all lingering doubt about whether I was a qualified surveyor before resigning in protest at the lack of attention to the way the housing market was performing in 2007, I would be glad to produce convincing documentary evidence of this to the EAT blogger's chosen representative, in person.


    On the latter's subject, I was rather hoping the person nominated might be someone of some standing within estate agency. I was thinking more along the lines of Peter Bolton King rather than PeeBee. At least, I was hoping, someone who had managed a successful chain of estate agents rather than simply owned a single shop, or not even that. The reason for this is simply so that the person chosen might have a broad understanding of the issues confronting more senior managers, as well as someone who should knows how to work right at 'the coal face' themselves.

    It wouldn't have to be one of the four or five regular bloggers. New blood would be most welcome in my opinion. Perhaps Merlin, or maybe Yanna would do??

    The choice is yours, of course.

    • 22 March 2011 07:53 AM
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    Neutral? Me? You've GOTTA be joking!

    I've been on this guy's tail since the very first post he made. He flatly refuses to answer 99% of my questions.

    He firmly believes he is superior to me, and that I am not worthy of his time (mind you - he does that to an awful lot of people...). YET he keeps coming back in an attempt to rattle me - all the time only rattling himself further.

    You need someone else - not me, as your 'champion'. He will use our history to squirm out of any issues he cannot bully me into accepting as The World According to Hendry.

    Trust me. Ask Rosalind.

    She is the obvious - and only - choice, I believe.

    • 21 March 2011 22:18 PM
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    I'm not your spokesperson, am I? I'm not an Agent, for a start

    Yes you are Peebee.

    He hates Estate Agents and therefore since you aren't one you are kind of neutral.

    • 21 March 2011 18:04 PM
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    Thanks for the votes, people - but I'm not your spokesperson, am I? I'm not an Agent, for a start; so whenever I ask him anything he would simply get all 'surly, spoilt ex-surveyor' on me and ask me to go away.

    Here's MY suggestion. In order that decorum be kept; in order that Mr Hendry have an opportunity to think about his responses - BUT the requirement is that he answer EVERY QUESTION - we each send a list of no more that THREE questions to Mr Hendry to our favourtie Editor, Rosalind. She can then 'interview' Mr Hendry and seek his views and responses to what she condisers to be the most salient of our questions. After all - this is HER ball and HER game... and we have all been playing it without even inviting her to referee, never mind to play!

    I firmly believe that it be in everybody's best interests that a neutral be in charge here - to ensure fair play. Anyway - I don't eat until evening so I'd be likely to swallow him whole if it were through the day!

    Num num num... ;0)

    • 21 March 2011 17:47 PM
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    Lets us clear this one up first.

    Have you actually been a Member of RICS or ISVA?

    • 21 March 2011 17:40 PM
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    But PeeBee gets my vote too!

    • 21 March 2011 17:24 PM
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    I think that he is never going to be happy to have a dialogue with anyone he thinks can best him. Which in this forum would be....... Pretty much everyone!

    He cuts and runs as soon as he thinks he is getting backed into a corner.

    RR you aren't interested in 'dialogue' as you said you would respond to questions posed by people willing to reveal themselves. No one wants to. Deal with it. You have been asked several questions from both people posting under real and assumed names. So answer them. What's the matter, scared?

    • 21 March 2011 17:23 PM
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    i Second that

    • 21 March 2011 16:59 PM
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    Peebee is going to do it.

    • 21 March 2011 16:57 PM
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    ... if YOU can muster a spokesperson who can instigate a proper dialogue between us, I'd be interested in having one.

    You choose someone prepared to do this please.

    • 21 March 2011 16:44 PM
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    RR: If you spent as much time answering the questions given to you, instead of writing back comments that go off the subject, then would be able to answer them.

    Its more likely you dont have the answers though.

    • 21 March 2011 16:36 PM
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    Choose one! Peebee, Wardy, George, HD, Country Lass

    • 21 March 2011 16:32 PM
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    I simply haven't got the time to answer every individual question, many of which have similarities. Neither can I sit at a screen waiting for further questions and answer them as they arise.

    The main article was supposed to be the subject matter for appropriate questions.

    As I have already said on more than one occasion, if you can muster a spokesperson who can instigate a proper dialogue between us, I'd be interested in having one.

    • 21 March 2011 16:30 PM
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    Did anyone find out if he actually was a surveyor, as in RICS or ISVA?

    • 21 March 2011 16:04 PM
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    I was asked to 'Go Away' last week as well, the last time someone asked me to do that was over 30 years ago, when I was on holiday pulling at my Dads T Shirt asking him for some pennies to put in a slot machine.

    RR is nothing but comedy value for me now, I have asked him some serious questions, as have you guys, and he either dives into the trenches or total sherks the question.

    Over 190+ comments on here RR, and not one positive remark to your blog, think that says an awful lot

    • 21 March 2011 15:18 PM
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    "Peebee. You are an utter dunderhead for saying that."

    You can't call me that! I'm gonna sue!

    "HD, People like you don't take NO for an answer, do they."

    "People like you" - what do you infer?? HD - you wanna go halfers on a solicuitor?

    "Why are you, like PeeBee, so prejudiced..." Looks like YOU have grounds also, Country Lass...

    "Wardy, that's sad." OOOHHH - defamation of character! You in, wardy?

    ...and here's one we can ALL do you for: "I hope I can enter into some useful dialogue here."

    It's a new legal challenge, but one which I expect to win anyhow. We will sue under 'Failure to live up to our WILDEST OF DREAMS'...

    See you in Court! ;0)

    • 21 March 2011 13:27 PM
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    This is like conversing with a cockroach. Pops out when no-one is about then scurries off into the darkness. Asks for a spokesperson but doesn’t like any of the 3 willing to engage.

    • 21 March 2011 13:25 PM
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    He is hiding behind the Sofa again!

    • 21 March 2011 12:13 PM
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    so now you want to talk legalities?

    ok lets talk PMA.
    data protection.
    copyright.

    • 21 March 2011 11:56 AM
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    "Are there any thoughts about the content of the article per chance?"

    But, Mr Hendry - if ANYONE DARES to take you to task over the content of your original blog entry, you usually ignore them completely or go off on one at them, like this example:

    "PeeBee, you're missing a lot. Please leave."

    Missing a lot of WHAT? Don't you mean I'm not bowing to your purported experience; your alleged professional standing; your self-proclaimed respect in the industry to match that of Henry Pryor? IF you were so keen to explain your motives, then you wouldn't take such a juvenile stance as 'go away, I don't like you anymore'. Hardly a pillar of the profession, are you? With that high-up-yer-own-whassname attitude, mind, you could well be a surveyor after all - even an ex-one would still retain that amount of self-importance...

    You don't need ANYONE to join you in the room to completely shaft your whole argument, Mr Hendry - you are making a FINE JOB of it yourself, sitting in front of the screen.

    Bow out - or get BLOWN OUT! Remember - I ain't even changed up into second gear yet... and your engine is SCREAMING in fifth; your foot flat to the floor...

    And what you forget is that I am but a thorn in your paw. I am not even an Agent, yet you cannot shake me; cannot rile me; cannot win a debate over YOUR CHOSEN SUBJECT with me. Can you therefore even attempt to comprehend what mess the REAL professionals are going to make out of you when I am spent...?

    • 21 March 2011 11:41 AM
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    Wardy, In the UK, if I think that what you wrote about me is either defamatory or damaging, the onus will be entirely on YOU to prove that your comments are true in court.

    In other words, if you make the claim, you've got to prove it

    • 21 March 2011 11:39 AM
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    Wardy, as far as I am aware libel is only actionable, if made against an individual. Comments made deploring actions of groups or organisations are allowed, under freedom of speech. It's a democracy :-)

    • 21 March 2011 11:14 AM
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    The same cardinal sin of "drive-by" mortgage valuations.

    • 21 March 2011 11:08 AM
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    so what about all your offending statments? The slandering of agents? The illegal use of my data?

    • 21 March 2011 11:01 AM
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    Wardy. The first cardinal sin for any estate agent to make is offering a 'valuation' without even setting foot in the property!
    But even more seriously, to venture an opinion about it without actually being invited to do so is a breach of privacy and is committing nuisance.

    I'm afraid I must once again ask for this and all the offending statements made by you earlier to be withdrawn and for an appropriate apology to be made by you, here in public.
    Even though you are currently writing under a pseudonym here, you can still be held to account in a court of civil law for defamation etc., should I choose to take such an action.
    You seem to have wrongly assumed that the property described is to go up for sale shortly!! You ought to know better.

    • 21 March 2011 10:48 AM
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    He instructed me at £210,000

    • 21 March 2011 10:46 AM
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    Oi!
    I just valued your home for you for free! A thanks would be nice. Jeeze im going to charge him next time....
    I'll never get it on anyways guys, I'll file that val sheet in the W file.

    • 21 March 2011 10:39 AM
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    Peebee has a record of all the stuff you have posted over the past couple of years.

    Would you dialogue with Peebee?

    • 21 March 2011 10:33 AM
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    If you can muster a spokesperson to have a proper dialogue between us, I'd be interested in having one. I think readers maybe too.

    • 21 March 2011 10:24 AM
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    You don't want a dialogue with anyone who knows more about property than you do.

    Catch 22 all the kids are at school during the week and aren't really into EAT when they get home.

    Go and impress the people around you or answer points 1-4 of 106+ I have got lined up for you.

    • 21 March 2011 09:31 AM
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    You guys seem to have an awful lot of spare time on your hands, to squabble and speculate about nothing much. What's causing that?

    Are there any thoughts about the content of the article per chance?

    If you can muster a spokesperson to have a proper dialogue between us, I'd be interested in having one.

    • 21 March 2011 08:08 AM
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    Here is one for you Pete. One of the formulae I use when valueing.

    Valuation=sqrt (sq(ap-fo)over a-1)
    ap=price
    a=applicant

    • 18 March 2011 18:02 PM
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    For the precise reason I stated in the post - the company is listed on the UK Estate Agents Directory.

    Check it out yourself...

    Also listed on EstateAgents.co.uk, and probably others.

    What happens when you misdescribe a property COMPANY?

    • 18 March 2011 17:01 PM
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    For litigation and consumer protection purposes that would be enough evidence that he is treating as an Estate Agent.

    It doesn't make him an Estate Agent but is representing himself as one.

    Why do you ask?

    • 18 March 2011 16:13 PM
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    George: The FIRST time I ever responded to Mr Hendry, I suggested that he had a hidden agenda(e). He strenuously denied it. I am, several months and several hundred volleys later, still beating that drum, as I know it to be the actuality.

    Here's a question to all you Agents out there. Does the fact that said company is listed on the UK ESTATE AGENTS DIRECTORY constitute the company being an Estate Agent?

    • 18 March 2011 15:57 PM
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    "you struggle because you don't listen to people and then find out what needs to happen"

    Wise words indeed! Peter some of the voices in you head ARE worth listening too!

    • 18 March 2011 15:42 PM
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    Ah! Perhaps he is setting himself up as an expert witness for surveyor negligence claims.

    Thanks for the offer of the tweets Peebee, I'll decline; there are a lot of repeats and plagiarisms of other folks work in those tweets.

    I doubt you will find him in the RICS member directory, I think we are seeing some weird form of Munchausen syndrome by proxy, where Pete is exaggerating the ills of an entire industry to further his own goals.

    • 18 March 2011 15:18 PM
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    George Daws / Anyone: "He will need to remove a lot of stuff to clear the internet of all his Estate Agent Hating Posts and Tweets.

    I am pesonally sad to see his tweets disappear, they were funnier than the telly."

    IF you want them, let me know via Rosalind or Nat.

    I've got 'em all - waaaay back to Feb 2009! ;0)

    Latest one is a classic: "Are YOU a recent buyer who was given incorrect info during negotiations to buy? If so blog about it anon @:..."

    OR what about yesterday's offering - this'll KILL you: " To have a say about why the housing market has stagnated, use our EAT forum to post ideas to estate agents: ..."


    OUR forum???!!! Ros - is there something you ain't telling us... ;0)

    • 18 March 2011 14:47 PM
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    Do you think he has stopped hating Agents or do you think he wants to become a proper celebrity property pundit?

    He will need to remove a lot of stuff to clear the internet of all his Estate Agent Hating Posts and Tweets.

    I am pesonally sad to see his tweets disappear, they were funnier than the telly.

    • 18 March 2011 13:40 PM
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    Hold the phone! Wait, PeeBee, you AGREE with that nutter?

    Don't know if I can entertain marrying another weirdo, the current one is bad enough....

    • 18 March 2011 13:17 PM
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    Yup - looks like Arnie Schwarzenegger is doing a fine job of 'Erasing' Mr Hendry. ALL POSTS on the PM Faceboof site since JUNE 2010 have gone!

    Gotta love the last one:

    "The PAST absolutely informs us of everything we are in the present."

    ABSOLUTELY, as Rocky Balboa would say...

    Mr Hendry - I agree with you WHOLEHEARTEDLY! (Put TODAY in your diary as a monumental date...)

    • 18 March 2011 13:09 PM
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    George Daws FNAEA: Somehow, I thought it was you, matey!

    You or one other, anyway...

    I've got someone checking an RICS Directory from pre-2007. Interestingly, Mr Hendry's education (the important part, anyway) seems to have disappeared from LinkedIn - but I seem to remember the CEM being listed thereon a few days ago. He is apparently nibbling away, from what I and others are seeing, at his internet footprints. Pity he cannot do so with EAT!

    (By the way, Mr Hendry - I have ALL your Tw@tters on record!)

    HERE'S ONE YOU WILL ALL LOVE!! On the page "Do your own: house valuation" - I spy THIS little gem...

    "Here's a tip you may not have heard before - because its our idea!

    In a rising market:
    Price your house for sale, slightly above market value, and accept a reduction to conclude a sale, if you can't get the full asking price after about 3 months.

    In a falling market:
    Price your house for sale, notably below market value, and be prepared to negotiate with those who are interested in buying, to obtain the highest offer available and aim to conclude a sale within 3 months."

    So there you have it. it is MR HENDRY'S IDEA to overprice your home in a particular market!

    Go on, people - enjoy feeding on THAT!! ;0)

    • 18 March 2011 12:52 PM
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    Nope, never seen it.

    Thanks for the permission though, Betty! ;-D

    • 18 March 2011 12:13 PM
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    If you have watched Secret Diary of a Call Girl you will know you can call me whatever you like

    • 18 March 2011 12:10 PM
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    Your address was easy to get from 'whois.com' from your domain.
    A quick look on street view show that your home is on a nice leafy street. Your semi looks neat, lots of OSP and even a garage to the rear. Nice.

    balaclava? check!......Satnav? Check!

    that is why people on the internet use Handles!

    • 18 March 2011 12:07 PM
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    @George

    'The BAD news is: I propose to still answer questions but only from those who are, like me, prepared to identify themselves online'

    Kinda shot himself in the foot with that comment then didn't he? You do (normally) identify yourself, and he STILL won't answer questions.

    So I can't call you Fred then?

    • 18 March 2011 12:00 PM
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    Coincidental Pee Bee or did you look into it too?

    • 18 March 2011 11:50 AM
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    I have got a perfectly good handle already. however Mr Hendry never replies to any of my posts because, as yet, he has not managed to provide anything like a counter argument.

    I don't like Mr Hendry's attitude towards my profession, I have no respect for him and thus can not ask him to respect me. By going without a name altogether I hoped to represent the general opinion, make points and ask questions that he has to answer in order to even participate in him own discussion.

    • 18 March 2011 11:48 AM
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    "I would market your property at a figure of £140,000 with the aim of achieving £135,000."

    Look, Sibley's... - you know that I am required to achieve the best price in the current market for the Vendor.

    You can't therefore blame me for trying.

    Just doing what I do best... ;0)

    • 18 March 2011 11:36 AM
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    67,000 x 1.089 power (2011-1999) = £186,384

    Current suggested asking price £199,999

    • 18 March 2011 11:32 AM
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    I can call you something else if you don't like Fred? Just makes it easier to reply to/mention posts.

    What about Percival? ;-)

    • 18 March 2011 11:29 AM
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    @Peebee Did he leave RICS? was he ever a surveyor? If you have evidence, I wil accept that rather that watch out for an answer from Mr Hendry

    • 18 March 2011 11:26 AM
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    Bet Sibley's offer of £140k is looking pretty good right about now....

    • 18 March 2011 11:17 AM
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    I forgot to mention.

    Your property will be marketed to the highest standard possible. We will use high quality photography, floorplans, virtual tours and booklet brochures. Your property will be marketed both here at my high street located office and on numerous property portals. ( we will try our best to make sure these are not scaped)

    Or you could take a couple of pics and pop it on some unknown website.

    • 18 March 2011 11:17 AM
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    Ok then lets look at this from another angle.
    RR I’m going to do you a favour.
    Lets 'value' your house.

    Your address was easy to get from 'whois.com' from your domain.
    A quick look on street view show that your home is on a nice leafy street. Your semi looks neat, lots of OSP and even a garage to the rear. Nice.
    Ok let have a look at similar property on the market. Rightmove 'best price guide' shows lots of similar property on that road. Most of it archived (didn’t sell).
    There is one currently on the market close to you and has been on since mid january. Hmmm not so good.

    lets have a look at land reg..I see you paid £67,500 for it back in 1999, good news is that you should have at least 7 years worth of market growth. Using maths alone suggests a price around £137,000. Your competing property is on the market @ £150,000. I don’t have applicants for your area, I would of corse need to take that into consideration.


    I would market your property at a figure of £140,000 with the aim of achieving £135,000.

    Tell me I’m wrong.

    • 18 March 2011 11:11 AM
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    Hello people. For those that looked forward to my parting post, then I am sorry but Mr Hendry declined my deal that if HE would leave the EAT website alone forever, then so would I. So you are, for the moment, stuck with me, I am afraid.

    (you would have loved the post - it made me cry...)

    CL - I wish! I am sure my wife prays for the day that I do not come home... ;0)

    'Fred' (Yeah - I quite like that, CL...): FYI, Mr H's LinkedIn page states: "I qualified as a General Practice Surveyor (RICS) in 1974 (the valuation branch) and have since gained wide-ranging experience across the residential property spectrum.

    I left RICS in 2007, feeling that shortcomings relating to the valuation of houses by estate agents were not being adequately addressed."

    Mr Hendry, by the way, has TWO LinkedIn pages. On one, he is 'Advertising Manager' for the company (so it's HIS fault the way the site looks and works...); on the other, he is 'OWNER' of the company (so it's HIS fault, etc,etc...). The latter entry also unveils the man as a LIAR, as he has, on this site, denied the above, claiming instead that he is "involved" with it!

    See, Mr Henry - 'truth will out' (a PROPER quote!). To be a good liar, you need a good memory. YOU can't even lie straight in bed!

    Bet you wish you'd taken me up on the 'leave the site' deal now, huh? ;0)

    Lile I have said to you on more than one occasion, you are becoming increasingly hot under the collar at me and my annoying interference in your game plan; your hidden agendae. Your futile attempts to shake me off have simply given me - and many, many others - more ammunition to fire at you, piling pressure on you. You simply cannot hack it - but it is all of your doing.

    You are (have?) reaching boiling point. Your posts more fragmented; more bitter; more desperate and EVEN more ridiculous than we normally expect from you. And bvelieve me, we set the bar VERY low for you!

    Me - I ain't even breaking out in a sweat. See - I have a passion for what I do as well. It feeds me - it doesn't consume me.

    YOU 'left' the RICS because ALL of the Members were not doing what YOU believe to be the right thing. YOU castigate ALL Estate Agents - and ALL homeowners - because they do not want you to interfere with the process in such a way that will wipe BILLIONS off the ecomony. (yet, you won't drop the price of your OWN property to that which a needy FTB can afford to pay you...)

    SO - the above statistics put YOU in a category of one; the OTHERS in a category of MILLIONS. MY guess, is that the MILLIONS are more likely to be 'right' than you are - and INFINITELY MORE LIKELY to 'win' the game you attempt to play.

    Last request. GIVE UP. PLEASE. You could have saved yourself a whole world of pain. You still can.

    • 18 March 2011 10:56 AM
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    PeeBee, any woman would be upset after learning she had lost your affections!

    And as to the anonymous poster (I'm going to call you Fred, just because I like the name and it's easier!)

    Fred, all of those are valid points, I have a few others that I would like addressed too. Hear that Mr RR? I'll give you a name too...

    'Arms-length transaction'? Please clarify.

    'prudently and without undue influence'? Are we counting parents in this? Or over-bearing spouses? (of which I am not one, btw PeeBee!)

    I agree with Fred too, where did that definition come from?

    • 18 March 2011 09:23 AM
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    That's probably enough for now.

    I promise that if you answer all 106+ points I have noted from your Blogs, Tweets and this thread alone. I will reveal who I am.

    Mr Hendry you are embarrassing yourself and your own reputation. The big pity is that you are also tarnishing the reputation and Professional standing of RICS/ISVA

    I can’t be more specific as I cannot find any evidence of a Peter Hendry ever qualifying as RICS or ISVA at or around the time you say you qualified. Your various social media sites claim that you are qualified as a surveyor but the lack any detail means I will just have to take your word for it.

    • 18 March 2011 08:53 AM
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    Market Value may be defined as: The price at which a contract to ‘exchange’ on a property should occur, at the date of the valuation, between an educated buyer and a reasonably motivated seller, in an arms-length transaction, after a proper marketing process has been conducted and where all the parties have acted knowledgeably, prudently, and without undue influence.

    Please explain where this definition of Market value came from?

    That statement (one of your definitions I am guessing because it is wrong) prompted me to think;

    If education is being bought into this discussion are you suggesting that the massive house price rises coincide with the career fortunes of David Beckham, Wayne Rooney and Katie Price etc where an evidential lack of anything representing an education has meant they have been conned into paying stupid prices?

    What do you suggest happens to the Surveyors who confirmed the super inflated prices being paid by any educationally challenged purchaser, where the surveyor failed to check how many GCSE’s the purchaser had?

    I appreciate your experience of 30+ years is greater than mine, so please tell me what you consider to be the minimal educational standard to buy a property.

    • 18 March 2011 08:18 AM
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    The point of your blog was that Estate Agents should learn to value like Surveyors.
    You clarified that Surveyors use the Comparative method of valuation. You then go on to say

    "They do their work mathematically, based on evidence"

    Please correct me (I am sure you will) although the comparative method uses Numbers (the asking and selling prices of similar properties) it is not really mathematical.
    If I play Snap with a 3 year old child, the pack of cards has numbers and number concepts on which the 3 year old doesn't necessarily understand, the Ace for example can be 1 or 13. That doesn’t matter a 3 year old can match similar numbers or cartoon representations of farmyard animals and then play a fair hand of Snap.

    Are you suggesting that Surveyors use a valuation model no better than a game of snap with a 3 year old?

    • 18 March 2011 07:56 AM
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    You have said many times that you are up for a debate. So lets have it.

    Alright then

    In a Tweet, you mentioned that surveyors "Frank" valuations.
    Please could you explain that term? it is not something I have come across.

    • 18 March 2011 07:41 AM
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    Only going to reply to sensible questions and comment?


    No1 I do not understand the term "per-Shaped" please could you explain what that is?

    • 18 March 2011 07:37 AM
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    "PeeBee, you two-timing rotten scoundrel! My feelings are hurt, I shall now go and cry."

    HAH!! You're jealous, ain't ya? See - I KNEW I had a chance with you, after all - hubby or not...

    Sorry, AoS - but our engagement is off. ;0)

    • 17 March 2011 23:38 PM
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    Surveyors / Valuers’ Negligence

    Whether it is the purchase of your own home or a property investment, you may need a surveyor or valuer (whether instructed by yourself or by your mortgage lender) to survey and value the property and identify any problems with the property. They are required to have insurance and if, for example, they overvalue your property or fail to detect any problems that could cause loss in value, you may well have a claim if you have suffered financial loss as a result.

    Examples of Surveyors/Valuers' negligence includes:-

    * Where a surveyor fails to consider all relevant factors in overvaluing or undervaluing a property, resulting in financial loss.
    * Where a surveyor fails to identify structural defects or other problems with the property, for example, a risk of subsidence or the presence of asbestos which results in a financial loss.

    This lot have a buisness sueing surveyors not Estate Agents, what does that tell you Mr Hendry? Is this one of your business venture Pete?

    Or is that the practice of Franking you referred to. I took that as you accusing your colleagues of rubber stamping
    fraudulent valuations!

    care to say what you meant by that Tweet Pete?

    • 17 March 2011 23:28 PM
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    December 2010 Excahanged contract on 52 Roman Way, £142,000, 2 bed brick semi 1992 construction back onto dual carriageway.

    January 2011 Sale Agreed 41 Roman Way Identical 2 bed semi Half brick half render elevation sale agreed £140,000

    January 2011 Sale agreed Mid terrace version of 52 Roman Way £132,000.


    This week value another Roman way opposite side of the road away from Dual Carriageway Semi £154,000

    Got a problem with that Guru?

    • 17 March 2011 23:19 PM
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    Where are we up to then?

    I had a bit of bizzo to attend to.

    Last time I looked Mr Hendry had removed all his hate posts from Twitter. Has he realised that he needs agents?

    • 17 March 2011 23:08 PM
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    so what can I do to my current valuing model that would help. perhaps less research ? all three bedroom semi's the same price regardless off benefits? regardless of marketing skills? regardless of area?
    the problem us RR, I have another 5 happy vendors this week that would disagree with you.
    any chance of answering the question this time round?

    • 17 March 2011 21:59 PM
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    Dear Impending Insulters,

    You have now forced a sea-change. This is non-negotiable and definite.

    There's some good news, and some bad news; (depending upon your current points of view, which I suggest should never be fixed in stone).

    The GOOD news is: I won't be blogging so often from now on. As spring is in the air, I've decided I must start concentrating on various business ventures that I'm involved in.

    The BAD news is: I propose to still answer questions but only from those who are, like me, prepared to identify themselves online and have the commitment to stand by their reputations, which should result from what they have to say, of course.

    (Some will no-doubt argue that this is good news and vice versa, I'll let you work that out! It doesn't matter much to me. :-&)

    Essentially it just means less online gossip but hopefully more useful debate.

    I do however, still plan to try and point out the massive shortcomings in ongoing estate agency activities, at appropriate times. Maybe that's the bad news, for some of you, maybe not.

    Wishing you an improving year.

    • 17 March 2011 18:22 PM
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    PeeBee, you two-timing rotten scoundrel! My feelings are hurt, I shall now go and cry.

    And RR, I think more people would prefer to see YOU leave!

    • 17 March 2011 18:13 PM
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    "PeeBee, you're missing a lot. Please leave."

    Mr Hendry - if I felt for ONE SECOND that you would come with me and never darken the thresh of this site again, then it would be a worthwhile sacrifice to never return.

    Even allows me to use my favourite quote (I didn't make this up like your last one...): "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" ~ Leitenant Commander Spock - Star Trek II.

    You up to it? I'm game if you are...

    I will prepare my parting post in readiness, Mr Hendry. I suggest you do the same.

    • 17 March 2011 18:12 PM
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    "PeeBee - i think people get a bit intimidated by you..."

    Hmmm... thanks for that, AoS. No, seriously - I mean it!

    Raises some interesting questions:
    Do I pull back in my opinions when I believe that something is wrong - either wrong FOR the industry or WITH the industry?

    Do I change my style, and just agree with whatever anyone says, and go with the flow?

    Do I embrace the changes and ideas that Mr Hendry; Mr Reynolds; Mr Buyers Agent et al (remember Look4aProperty - where did THAT disappear to?) wish to subject us to?

    NAH! I'll stick to being intimidating old me, if that's all right. If a few well-aimed (I believe them to be, anyway...) questions at these bods make them uncomfortable and all squidgy in the boxers department, then they shouldn't raise their heads over the parapet, should they?

    If it weren't ME shooting at them, someone ELSE would... ;0)

    I never LOAD bullets for others. I ALWAYS fire my own. If this is ever unwelcome by those that I respect on here (and you know who you are...), then I shall refrain from posting.

    Until then...

    • 17 March 2011 18:05 PM
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    PeeBee, you're missing a lot. Please leave.

    AceofSpades. the last thing I need is to be taen under the wing of Peebee, that WOULD be scary!

    • 17 March 2011 17:46 PM
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    QUOTE of the day:
    "'ANS: I do know about that as a client, when selling through an agent."
    From your website:
    "Property-Match (UK): the modern way to market houses
    Established in 1996 and evolving ever since"

    HOW do you know about the Rightmove system? It hasn't been going since '96

    WHY do you use Agents as a "selling client" (they are called 'vendors' for your records...) you have "The Ultimate in Online Marketing" at your fingertips, do you not? WHY USE AN AGENT??

    Am I missing something here...?

    • 17 March 2011 17:34 PM
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    RR - Will you let me sell your house? Of course, I will only do it using your own methods....

    Country Lass is absolutely right.

    PeeBee - i think people get a bit intimidated by you, you know your stuff. RR had no comebacks to you and that debate finshed a LONG time ago.

    He quit, sulked like a child and has returned since trying to act like it didn't happen.

    RR, Perhaps you let PeeBee take you under his wing?

    • 17 March 2011 17:28 PM
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    AceofSpades: MARRY ME!!

    Might as well try again - Country Lass turned me down... ;0)

    Seriously - thanks for the back-slap, mate. Having been called a name or two (...more than normal...) in the last 24 hours made me question whether my posts were welcome or not. You raise me up, as the song goes - and I thank you for that.

    Then, I started to question my sanity. I post and post on here, hoping in some little way to make the property industry work just that little better; that little harder; that little more profitably. Then I realised that there is nothing to question.

    I KNOW FINE DAMN WELL - I'M COMPLETELY, UTTERLY BARKING!! ;0)

    • 17 March 2011 17:18 PM
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    Wardy, at last, we have identified the CRUX of the problem. Hallelujah.

    The difference between what you are doing to serve your clients, and what I suggest you should be doing (slightly less in fact), is what is causing all the price spikes.

    If only we could now focus in on these vitally important issues and come to a mutual understanding, along with the ombudsman.

    If we could, the problems of price hikes then slumps as the market ultimately forces a painful correction, could be cast into history.

    In just the same way as The Bank of England believes that by using interest rates they can control inflation, so with agents doing more accurate house appraisals, explaining to their clients, carefully, what the market prices currently are, price hikes followed by slumps as the market ultimately has to force a painful correction, would be a thing of the past.

    Now I accept that I am already going a bit fast for you to agree yet, or for wholesale agreement to be achieved with many estate agents, but HERE, at last is the starting point. A line drawn in the sand.



    Country Lass, "The Market Value is whatever the buyer is willing to pay for it." Well no, sorry. Again this clearly shows using different terminology, exactly the same fault as is current held in Wardy's thinking.

    Market Value may be defined as:
The price at which a contract to ‘exchange’ on a property should occur, at the date of the valuation, between an educated buyer and a reasonably motivated seller, in an arms-length transaction, after a proper marketing process has been conducted and where all the parties have acted knowledgeably, prudently, and without undue influence.

    Definition of the term: – Valuation:
A calculation, based on recent sales information – and adjusted for material differences between the sold property and the subject property (the house still to be sold) – which deduces the true current market value of the subject property at that particular time by using three or more recently sold comparables, none of which involved an excessive amount of credit finance to effect the sale (i.e over 75% of the price paid).


    The problem is, you are totally ignoring: 'between an educated buyer and a reasonably motivated seller'.
    and: 'and where all the parties have acted knowledgeably, prudently, and without undue influence'.

    I submit that the primarily reason for you not factoring these mater into you appraisal behaviour and valuation is that you have never been taught about them.


    I Know, I Know, I Know, you're going to say, who does he think he is. Well the answer is someone who has research and analysed all these issues for longer than you have been practising.
    The thing that you so don't want to see, hear, or accept, is that the market has reacted badly to present asking price levels. That is the reason why I am coming on here opening up debate about WHY this is happening. What's causing it to happen on cyclical basis?

    I believe the answers are plain for all to see in this blog page today.

    I would rely like to have to opportunity of engaging a group of you with discussion about this and possible gain a genuine consensus for new, better, ways to deal with house sales.

    If only we could.

    • 17 March 2011 17:16 PM
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    The Market Value is whatever the buyer is willing to pay for it. If they offer £180k, and are happy to increase to £185k, then the market value is £185k.

    If they don't then it's not. Simple

    • 17 March 2011 15:20 PM
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    RR; Stop acting like a kid, your a grown man. I will leave you alone cos your boring me now

    The same old rubbish being spouted, crazy ideas,sherking questions.

    You my friend will not change the market, give up.

    • 17 March 2011 15:19 PM
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    EXACTLY, you are correct. Im transfixed with gaining the best price. Thats exactly what I do and thats why people pay me thousands of pounds to do it.
    What can you add to my explanation of valuing property that will help the market?

    • 17 March 2011 15:17 PM
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    Wardy, to add, slightly to what I replied, I perceive that you, along with many other estate agents, are 'transfixed' with the idea of finding any which way you can, to
    gain a higher price for a property.

    You have ALL lost sight of the real objective - to find current market value, the value in the market.

    This is where the change needs to happen.

    • 17 March 2011 15:12 PM
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    1, 'ANS: I do know about that as a client, when selling through an agent.'

    Best price guide is a back office system that rightmove supply giving current and previous property along with the status. sold/withdrawn/archived etc. You do not use, hence me saying you do not know about it.

    2,'ANS: Competition is ASKING prices. These may be as crazy as ever! Nigh-on useless, in fact'.

    Competition is important. most viewers will be viewing other similar priced property.

    3,'ANS: That has, and should have nothing to do with current property VALUES!'

    What buyers are prepared to spend is has EVERYTHING to do with house prices. I would not value a house at £100,000 when 10 buyers registered will pay £200,000 for that type.

    4,'ANS: THIS is clearly where the problem lies, and why the markets have become SO confused. You should not be getting increased offers from buyers based on the fact that you know they CAN make them'.

    I’m sorry I don’t understand your point

    5,'ANS: If the price is out of the range of current buyers, you will just loose viewings'.

    not so, if a property is over valued the interest received will suffer. Close monitoring of this will highlight any problems, after rechecking the marketing and making sure no improvements can be made the vendor should be advised to reduce. Bare in mind you can advise, not insist.

    6,'You and your colleagues, keep forgetting, the whole point of all this chatter is because the market has gone 'per-shaped'. It need fixing. That means you guys need to listen, and change what your are doing. How else can things get improved?'

    You have said many times that you are up for a debate. So lets have it.

    I asked you some questions which you have (yet again) not answered.

    what can i do to my current valuing model? Im listening.

    • 17 March 2011 15:10 PM
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    HD, People like you don't take NO for an answer, do they.
    Listen, we don't need that.

    • 17 March 2011 15:06 PM
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    RR: I am only negative on issues that are addressed that I believe are wrong.

    No one else agrees with anything you say.

    Todays actually a positive day for me.

    • 17 March 2011 14:45 PM
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    HD, You're being negative about something that desperately needs positive input. Please go away.

    • 17 March 2011 14:35 PM
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    RR: I can only think your joking by the comments you make now, if you actually realised what your writing you realise how stupid you sound.

    In your answers back to wardy's post, you sound as though you are suggesting that the agent should do no prep work as these factors aren't important.

    Lets just take vendors name, number and address, turn up and wing it????

    Wardy's base that he has set has set out, are the underlying principals of what should be carried out, of course there are other factors that will be included to win the vendors business

    • 17 March 2011 14:23 PM
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    Wardy, Thanks for responding. I hope I can enter into some useful dialogue here.

    RR, Right this is the last time. If you don’t get it after this then I may suggest you take a trip to Sweden and give up altogether.
    ANS: No need for that.

    There are many more factors involved than maths when valuing a home. I will give you a scenario.

    Potential Vendor calls office and asks for a valuation.
    Immediately we carry out a best price guide on rightmove (you wouldn’t know about this)
    ANS: I do know about that as a client, when selling through an agent.


    This gives us comparable evidence, similar property types in similar locations. This gives us an idea of what that particular properties competition is.
    ANS: Competition is ASKING prices. These may be as crazy as ever! Nigh-on useless, in fact.

    This on its own is not enough to value correctly. Then we have a look at land registry. We find out how much similar properties actually completed at (very important this one but still not enough to rely on) We then have a look at our data base, we need to know what applicants we have, what they are looking for and more importantly what they are prepared to spend.
    ANS: That has, and should have nothing to do with current property VALUES!

    By this time we are usually very close to deciding a price before we get in the car. The correct questions where asked at the point of booking the val so we know what benefits/disadvantages the particular property may have.

    We knock on the door and get shown round and adjust the margin to suit. Vendors expectations have to be taken into consideration here, If the vendor disagrees and wants to put on for higher then we make the decision as to whether we are willing to spend the money on the marketing.
    ANS: Hmmm.

    This is the bit surveyors and yourself do not understand. You may have access to land registry and comparables but you don’t not have access to buyers and their emotions. If you take that out of the equation then you are simply not doing the job properly.
    ANS: THIS is clearly where the problem lies, and why the markets have become SO confused. You should not be getting increased offers from buyers based on the fact that you know they CAN make them.


    I do have a stap line for this. The marketing price is the highest figure I can put a property on the market for whilst still maintaining interest from potential purchasers. That way I’m confident I will achieve them the best price.
    ANS: If the price is out of the range of current buyers, you will just loose viewings.

    You and your colleagues, keep forgetting, the whole point of all this chatter is because the market has gone 'per-shaped'. It need fixing. That means you guys need to listen, and change what your are doing. How else can things get improved?


    THE REAL ISSUE WITH YOU..
    You see things in black and white. You said it yourself
    'They do their work mathematically, based on evidence.'
    If you had experience selling to the public then you would know that there is far more to it than that. I like to think that my experience in my market place has a better idea of property prices than your calculator.
    RR, do you think better marketing/use of technologies can ultimately gain a higher price for property? Also what could you add to my current valuing model that would help?
    ANS: I would add that YOU need to be prepared to listen and consider alternative approaches more.

    I'd be interested in your considered further views, in due course.

    • 17 March 2011 14:10 PM
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    There you go RR, Wardy as let you have it there my friend, Game, Set and Match.

    We all meet many different types of vendors & Buyers on a daily basis, and you have to adapt to each person differently, thats one of the main skills.

    • 17 March 2011 13:59 PM
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    RR, Right this is the last time. If you don’t get it after this then I may suggest you take a trip to Sweden and give up altogether.

    There are many more factors involved than maths when valuing a home. I will give you a scenario.

    Potential Vendor calls office and asks for a valuation.
    Immediately we carry out a best price guide on rightmove (you wouldn’t know about this) This gives us comparable evidence, similar property types in similar locations. This gives us an idea of what that particular properties competition is. This on its own is not enough to value correctly. Then we have a look at land registry. We find out how much similar properties actually completed at (very important this one but still not enough to rely on) We then have a look at our data base, we need to know what applicants we have, what they are looking for and more importantly what they are prepared to spend.
    By this time we are usually very close to deciding a price before we get in the car. The correct questions where asked at the point of booking the val so we know what benefits/disadvantages the particular property may have.

    We knock on the door and get shown round and adjust the margin to suit. Vendors expectations have to be taken into consideration here, If the vendor disagrees and wants to put on for higher then we make the decision as to whether we are willing to spend the money on the marketing.
    This is the bit surveyors and yourself do not understand. You may have access to land registry and comparables but you don’t not have access to buyers and their emotions. If you take that out of the equation then you are simply not doing the job properly.
    I do have a stap line for this. The marketing price is the highest figure I can put a property on the market for whilst still maintaining interest from potential purchasers. That way I’m confident I will achieve them the best price.
    THE REAL ISSUE WITH YOU..
    You see things in black and white. You said it yourself
    'They do their work mathematically, based on evidence.'
    If you had experience selling to the public then you would know that there is far more to it than that. I like to think that my experience in my market place has a better idea of property prices than your calculator.
    RR, do you think better marketing/use of technologies can ultimately gain a higher price for property? Also what could you add to my current valuing model that would help?

    • 17 March 2011 13:35 PM
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    You guys spout complete rubbish - sorry, Im only going to reply to sensible comment.

    • 17 March 2011 13:17 PM
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    And by the way, how dare you question PeeBee's position within this forum.

    His posts are accurate, clever, in-touch and worthy of reading. Perhaps that's where you're going wrong.

    • 17 March 2011 13:03 PM
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    Reality - You are not respected amongst estate agents.

    Your ideas are poor.

    You dodge questions, when people ask - Wardy's was very relevant.

    Your website and your thoughts frequently contradict your official statements.

    A few days ago, you said you had stopped posting on here. I got excited. Then I realised you were lying.

    Please do not patronise people as to suggest YOU have the answers and everyone should listen to YOU.

    A tutorial from you? No thanks. Paying you to attend? Get real.

    Your behaviour is a farce.

    For the record, as I have mentioned before, there are many, MANY people who can offer useful assistance to agents and the property market. All agents would listen to everything they had to say. Please get in your head that YOU are NOT one of them.

    • 17 March 2011 13:01 PM
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    Beacuse we don't give a Valuation, we give a market apparaisal.

    My Market Appraisal I believe are always honest.

    So what you are suggesting is now, is that all Estate agents need to take the relevant steps to become surveyors?

    • 17 March 2011 12:56 PM
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    HD, Well unlike agents overvaluing, valuers don't get into the situation where they undervalue houses (or downvalue them as you might say) without justification. They do their work mathematically, based on evidence.

    Why can't you guys do the same for vendors?

    • 17 March 2011 12:45 PM
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    Tutorials, I wish i would have thought of that one. So you are seriously suggesting that companies/people will pay £xxx of pounds and they will all become excellent valuers, that price correctly all the time and thus bringning prices down.

    I don't think so.

    There is a certain methodlody or the basics which I would consider most agents will put into use.

    ( Iwont share mine as you won't share yours though)

    But unfortuantely for every few good agents there is always going to be the one that over values/tells the vednor what they want to hear. That will never be cut out of Estate agency.

    (its the same argument I have heard from agents before about fees, if only everyone retained there fees and charged 1.75% then we would all be earning better, but there is always going to be one agent that sherks this and offers 1%)

    No one ever conforms.

    I could actually go and and have an end less list of why getting the property on at the right price is not an easy job. There are an awful lots of objections in the way, but it is our job to overcome these objections

    PS - You are thinking of setting up your own Tutorial company are you?

    • 17 March 2011 12:34 PM
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    HD, you're behind.

    I offered this earlier by suggesting we should set up a set of tutorials, but this was rejected, rather sarcastically.

    I've now withdrawn that offer. However, I have invited you 'experts' to post some precise methodology of your own, for my inferior benefit.

    • 17 March 2011 12:02 PM
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    RR; I have never seen anyone who sherks as many questions at you.

    I asked you a simple question that relates to your blog, so it is relevant. Why can't you answer answer?

    Is it because you don't know? Thats fine if you don't, just say you don't know.

    I will ask again

    Why don't you give us a detailed insight into how you would value a property correctly?

    p.s You might be able to teach me something

    • 17 March 2011 11:57 AM
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    You keep offering advice to change it, he's asking for suggestions.

    Jump at the chance!

    • 17 March 2011 11:43 AM
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    HD, Please see my post below: 2011-03-17 08:18:42

    Respectful plea:

    Is there any change we could get back to examining and commenting on the content of the main blog article please?

    "It’s time to face the music and address the house price problem"

    I think it's time for 'agents' to face the music because most are just not looking deeply, at what is happening around them right now.

    • 17 March 2011 11:41 AM
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    RR: Look out! Enter the utter dunderhead...

    Yesterday, I 'lost it' when a complete ****** decided it would be funny to use a couple of naughty words aimed at certain individuals. Now I WAS one of those that said poster aimed their abuse at - but that didn't bother me. He included Country Lass into a small but perfectly formed circle of dip****s (missed quite a few out, mind you...). That was not good. Whilst she is more than welcome in the fold, we will have to change the name for the sake of decorum. I bit back - hard - and immediately emailed and asked the Editor to delete my post, as I had overstepped the bounds of decency - even though I did not use abusive language (as such...).

    The point is, if someone wants to call me a dip****, then so be it. I probably am one, if truth be known. So you calling me an "utter dunderhead" is hardly going to raise my blood-pressure, is it? It actually made me laugh out loud. You got any others? I reckon we could all do with some light relief - that you VERY SELDOM bring to the table.

    One thing I am certain of, is that NO-ONE will share your view of what I am. Why WOULD they, when there are SO MANY better, harsher - and probably more accurate - names they could call me? I have been a t*ss*r; a w*nk*r; all the kn*bs and kn*ck*s you care to mention in my time - and I would imagine this will continue.

    You see, I speak my mind. I say what I feel to be the truth - even if it not what others feel; or want to hear. I would expect others to do the same to me - but sadly they do not. I have pleaded with you on several occasions to stop sticking your head above the parapet, as you are unarmed and VERY vunerable. You decided to ignore. I challenged you to sell your own home to a deserving case of a First-Time Buyer who could afford to pay you £140,000 - you ignored the offer. Thus you set a bad example to those MILLIONS you wish to control in terms of their property values.

    You say "A lot of what you say is warm (not even hot) air." Yes, it is. It is a collection of letters, shaped into words and typed on a screen, and directed by the power of t'internet to whomever wishes to read it. The choice is theirs. YOU obviously choose to read them: and then pick and choose the bits you want from there. Understandable - my training background tells me that people only absorb a small percentage of what you throw at them. The idea is to throw things at them OFTEN, in the hope that it will ALL sink in, in bite-size chunks.

    How often do I need to implore you to GIVE UP FOR THE SAKE OF THOSE WHO YOU PURPORT TO REPRESENT??

    If, as you say, my air is only "warm", why does it get YOU so HOT under the collar? Little, insignificant, non-Agent me. Come on, Mr Surveyor; HE who considers himself in the same light as Henry Pryor (...both accomplished and respected property professionals in our own rights...); HE who CAN and WILL revolutionise the property market with or without the backing of the Industry - CRUSH ME! I am an "utter dunderhead" - remember? WHY, then, am I giving YOU so much pain?

    • 17 March 2011 11:00 AM
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    RR; Back to your Blog then, Your suggestion is that agents value properties correctly.

    Why don't you give us a detailed insight into how you would value a property correctly?

    • 17 March 2011 10:41 AM
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    Respectful plea:

    Is there any change we could get back to examining and commenting on the content of the main blog article please?

    "It’s time to face the music and address the house price problem"

    I think it's time for 'agents' to face the music because most are just not looking deeply, at what is happening around them right now.

    • 17 March 2011 10:36 AM
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    Wardy, are you saying you have NEVER laughed at RR's posts? I frequently do!

    Normally in disbelief, but he does occasionally brighten up a day...

    • 17 March 2011 09:32 AM
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    Wardy, that's sad.

    • 17 March 2011 09:31 AM
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    BTW no its not me you cretin. A few posts ago i offered you an explanation of how agents value. As per usual you side tracked and went of on a tangent about how you could offer us advise?
    For the record I find PeeBee's posts informative, well written, well thought out and quite funny a lot of the time.
    None of the above has been seen in any of yours.

    • 17 March 2011 09:22 AM
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    Unidentified poster Added by on 2011-03-14 18:53:06 (maybe it's Wardy):
    "How many Estate Agents are not using the Comparative method of valuation? "
    I acknowledge that you have effectively said there is no point in my showing you an example of a comparable-based house valuation, because you consider this would be unlikely to tell you anything that you don't already know.

    Having thought about this, I would be interested if you would therefore kindly show me the workings of an example of a comparable-based house valuation of your own, as I believe this might well identify significant areas where there must be shortcomings worthy of further discussion. I say this on account of the obvious difficulties the UK housing market is now in.

    As you suggest you're confident in carrying out such valuations well, and indeed do these frequently whilst producing client's market appraisals, I trust you will be happy to demonstrate this in order to help resolve this disagreement, once and for all.

    You should be able to produce the essential details in the body of your reply to this blog.

    --
    Peebee. You are an utter dunderhead for saying that.
    Also, I'm not the only one on these posts who thinks that about you. Most of what you say is warm (not even hot) air.
    The general idea in blogs is to say something positive when you write, if you don't it's just a total waste of space.
    You spoil it for everyone else mate.

    • 17 March 2011 08:18 AM
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    RR: Let me assure you there is NO large difference in opinion.

    We are all, absolutely, unequivocally, ONE HUNDRED PERCENT definitely of the opinioon that you are a complete barm-pot (we call people like you 'heid-the-balls" where I come from...)..

    Your head is full of magic. You can evidently start an argument in an empty room.

    The RICS should, nay, MUST, commence psychometric testing and evaluation of all current and future Members in order to never, EVER, make the same mistake again. If you weren't an "EX-surveyor", I guarantee you would be now!

    Your little world must be a boring place without you, I am sure. I hope you return there. Soon.

    It has been... interesting! Thanks for beaming down!

    • 16 March 2011 21:15 PM
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    For the record, there is a large difference of opinion here.
    I maintain that my argument is the better, and that it shall be proved, the more correct.

    • 16 March 2011 20:35 PM
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    RR: You are so far away from reality that no-one at all is taking you seriously.

    Your way to change the market is my offering your help and suggesting that people value correctly. Tell us all something we dont know.

    Although I dont agree with your website, you will carry on with it Im sure, but people can cetainly have their own opinions on it, I personally think its rubbish.

    Have you also noticed when a story/blog/idea is published the responses are generally broken down into three categories

    1. The majority Agree
    2. Some people agree/Some disagree and there is usually a decent debate.
    3. Everyone disagrees

    Your Posts/blogs/articles all falls into category 3, if i was you, i would give up while you are behind.

    • 16 March 2011 09:10 AM
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    There are many, well respected professionals, that are given the time of day by the EAT readers. We are keen to hear what we they say. You are not one of them. End of story.

    You initally posted details of your site on here and made some crazy suggestions, too. People have given you the time initially, but your ideas and suggestions are not worthy of the public domain. When you make statements on here, people are entitled to give you their view - you of course expect people to read yours.

    As I have always said, your ideas and comments always contradict themselves.

    • 16 March 2011 09:00 AM
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    I retract nothing, your a clown

    • 15 March 2011 23:17 PM
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    "Estate agents have now wrecked the housing market - using arrogance, ignorance, and greed, (just as the bankers wrecked the lending market)."

    That Tweet doesn't quite fit with

    "Just to put the record straight, for the benefit of any practicing estate agents reading this, I've nothing against you personally or professionally."

    May I recommend ISBN 0-434-11119-8

    • 15 March 2011 21:06 PM
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    The hiding of all your contemptuous and inflammatory Tweets about Estate Agents is a retraction of your distain for the industry is it?
    It is a good job that a selection has been preserved for posterity within this thread.

    • 15 March 2011 20:45 PM
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    Statement to estate agents about the new Property Match business model.

    Just to put the record straight, for the benefit of any practicing estate agents reading this, I've nothing against you personally or professionally.

    My aspiration is to try and help you as a group, using the 30+ years of experience I've amassed in the residential property sector.

    Seeing that things are not going well right now, and seeing that just a small change could make a huge difference, I simply wish to offer some helpful advice.

    Now, if you practicing estate agents either dislike that advice, think it is valueless, or simply don't want any advice; that's your prerogative.
    I merely inteneded to proffer the advice, rather than allow the opportunity itself to be lost.
    Having now done that, even though you have rejected it, I feel my role is fulfilled. I am happy and have fulfilled my intention.

    I wish you all well, and hope people will benefit, more and more, from the good service you are potentially able to provide to them.

    One final thing. I feel that no one group should be monopolising the house-marketing business sector and for that reason alone I want to give the public the choice of whether, or not, to sell houses by using estate agents.

    I have developed an English business model for providing online house marketing which charges a small sum for registration, unlike Tepilo for example, which is based on the American model of free up-front registration.

    As far as I am concerned, anyone is free to develop their ideas in the UK and no-one has any right to try and suppress someone else's inventions.

    The team, working on developing the Property Match online model and the business model itself is being maliciously discredited by certain estate agents having heard about it latterly, but for no justifiable reason and with insufficient information. Some of the statements made here are defamatory and those issuing them would be wise to retract them.

    I consider this behaviour unnecessary, inappropriate and wrong. If anyone, be they a group or an individual has reservations about what is being proposed, they are naturally free to approach us and discuss their concerns or the issues posed to them by these new developments.

    As I've already said, I still encourage you to debate the content of my article and test its validity, instead of getting side-tracked about many other concerns.

    • 15 March 2011 19:11 PM
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    Hendry, I doubt it would end in a 'good talk'

    Anyway, I've enjoyed this. I called you out the very first time you posted and you have proved me correct EVERY single time you post. This time around you have made my day, allow me to quote you.
    'Both myself and Henry Prior, whom are both accomplished and respected property professionals in our own rights'

    Thank you Hendry, that one will stay with me.
    So it seems you’ve had enough and given up on the site....you will be missed.

    Hook me up for that one on one if you’re up for it though

    p.s I would happily tell you how (in my opinion) a good agent should value property should you reply

    • 15 March 2011 14:47 PM
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    You have really missed the point here and it is sad to see.

    The majority embrace innovation but you just haven't offered this in any shape or form. Agents are quick to back good suggestions and ideas on EAT - you just haven't delivered this yourself.

    Your ideas and involvement with your website conflict with your comments and statements.

    Take some time out, work out who you are and what you want and refresh yourself.

    • 15 March 2011 14:36 PM
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    The saddest comment on his lfe is that he found time to Tweet on Christmas day; not the usual cheery Merry Christmas but more of his trademark bile.

    I don't suppose we will ever know but I wonder if he was known as Horrid Hendry to the local agents whose deals were scuppered by his mortgage valuations.

    • 15 March 2011 12:57 PM
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    Hmmm... Methinks Mr RR is about to blow!!!

    His latest rantlet is that of a very, VERY, troubled soul. And a megalomaniac to boot - "I, for one, no longer want to associate myself with such discord and instead shall now absent myself and not respond to those who delight in peddling continual disharmony wherever they go. I have been unable to discuss, with such desperadoes, any reasonable ideas for improving the ways that houses are both sold and let in the UK. It's a sad day and a significant one, the 15th March in 2011."

    Believe me, Mr RR - it WILL be a significant day - but CERTAINLY NOT a sad one, if you pick up your ball and walk away from this site or even the property market in a huff!

    Here's an interesting Tw@tter comment from the gent himself, at 2.05am (nearly as sad as me...) on 3 March:

    "Estate agents have completely ruined the market's flow, by failing to keep asking prices within 10% of sale prices, at such a crucial time."

    Sorry, Mr Reality - (assuming, that is, that
    a: you haven't exploded spectacularly and
    b: that desipte going off in a strop you are in fact going to re-engage the enemy like a good little Maverick... )
    are you saying that it is ACCEPTABLE to be 10% out on the actual value of a property when assessing its' marketing price? That TEN PERCENT is the RICS accepted tolerance for 'valuations'?

    Now you have me COMPLETELY confused...

    YOU, SIR, HANG YOURSELF WITH YOUR OWN WORDS, every time you commit them to 'print'. People posting on here do not need to invent ways to make you appear foolish or to uncover your misguided actions - YOU WRITE THEM FOR THEM (and me - and for what it is worth, I thank you for saving me the bother...) TO USE!

    The internet is unforgiving of stupidity or ignorance. You, Sir, seem to be uber-blessed with both.

    Everyone watch for the mushroom cloud, appearing somewhere over Nottingham - about..............NOW!

    • 15 March 2011 12:23 PM
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    propertymatchUK Peter Hendry
    YOU should try the newest, most technically perfect alternative to house marketing in ages. It uses the Internet

    Anyone care to guess what he was bleating on about in that one?

    MOST TECHNICALLY PERFECT!

    • 15 March 2011 11:38 AM
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    propertymatchUK Peter Hendry
    It would be better to make estate agents serve 'the market' - not the seller:

    Whatever the market is!

    • 15 March 2011 11:29 AM
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    but what they say is highly inflamatory.

    Sorry Mr Hendry all this is coming from your Twitter page

    Perhaps you are beginning to realise how inflamatory your tweets and posts are!

    • 15 March 2011 11:19 AM
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    propertymatchUK Peter Hendry
    Buyers beware - be very aware. There's a huge rift opening between asking prices and mortgage surveyor's franking valuations, so; negotIATE!


    I finally found the quote I was looking for!

    What is the Franking method of valuation? or are you accusing mortgage surveyors of corruption?

    • 15 March 2011 11:16 AM
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    propertymatchUK Peter Hendry
    90% of houses in the UK are sold by agents with bad reputations. Its time to move to a much better method of selling

    90% have got a bad reputation,? bold claim that one!

    • 15 March 2011 11:12 AM
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    propertymatchUK Peter Hendry
    Why do the public distrust estate agents? They masquerade as surveyors when they are really SALES people, intent on maximizing house prices.


    That is a bit of a mad rant!

    • 15 March 2011 11:09 AM
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    This is ridiculous. I'm left guessing who the last poster was, but what they say is highly inflamatory.

    I am utterly astounded by the strong invective pouring from several of the frequent contributors on these blogs.
    As estate agents, who are supposed to be good at communication with people and good at explaining situations to people as they occur, these commentators completely fail to bring about resolution or any hope of gaining a mutual understanding on almost any issue they discuss. In fact they each seem single-mindedly intent on stocking the fires of dissent and in opposing any form of agreement. They are reckless in their approach to discussion, instead of being conciliatory.

    If these commentators happen to reflect, in any way, the majority views and stances of estate agents, up and down the country, I would certainly be concerned if I were needing to trust such people to handle a sale of a property of mine with any degree of skill and diligence.

    To me, utter recklessness is manifesting amounts the posters here. This is a travesty, because it severely hampers any estate agent wishing to improve their standing, whether in society or simply amongst their local communities and I deplore it.

    Presumably, the overseers of estate agent society are reading the nonsense which these custodians of our property marketing have the nerve to post. They themselves have been seen contributing to the blog themselves from time to time, so they should be reading it. If they are prepared to allow their membership to act with such disdain, in full public view; what can that possibly say for their hopes of being able to improve the awful reputation being continually re-created in the minds of the public, by their own members?

    I, for one, no longer want to associate myself with such discord and instead shall now absent myself and not respond to those who delight in peddling continual disharmony wherever they go. I have been unable to discuss, with such desperadoes, any reasonable ideas for improving the ways that houses are both sold and let in the UK. It's a sad day and a significant one, the 15th March in 2011.

    Though I stand ready to be convinced that things can one day be improved within estate agency, I feel fully justified in having launched a web based house-marketing service which totally circumvents the need to employ estate agents to sell one's own house in the UK. It they are truly confident in their own abilities, why are they feeling so annoyed by its presence on the Internet.


    Please, carry on debating, but preferably on the issue described in this blog and don't get side-tracked about your many other concerns, at least for a short while.

    • 15 March 2011 11:08 AM
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    RR's out: I'm back in!

    "This is a blog about "It’s time to face the music and address the house price problem", remember?"

    Okay. As a VENDOR, Mr RR, allow me to speak on behalf of my fellow homeowners. I am sure that if any of them disagree with what I am saying then they will come on here and put me right.

    I own a house. I pay for it; maintain it; make it my home. As long as it suits my needs, I will remain there - unless my other half has other ideas.

    WHEN I DO decide to leave it, then I will go through the process of selling it. I will appoint an Estate Agent who, in my opinion, has the best chance of selling it for me - in the shortest timeframe; for the best price.

    WHO I appoint will be MY decision. I will have total control - if it turns out that I made a poor decision, then the onus falls to me, no-one else. That Agent will have given me their professional opinon of my home's worth in the market of that day. It may be one of one; I may decide to have a number of opinions.

    Whatever the case, I will market MY HOME at WHATEVER FIGURE I DECIDE! I will either agree or disagree with the Agent. IF I disagree, then the Agent will either agree to market my home at my required initial Asking Price, or they will refuse to pander to my wants if they believe that I am wasting their time - a move which I will respect (maybe I differ from 'yer average' homeowner in that respect - I don't know...).

    You see, Mr RR - THIS is where ALL you clever ideas fall apart. YOU talk "property" - WE (owners) talk "HOME". Totally different perspective - totally different outcome. THIS IS MY POSSESSION - NOT YOURS! YOU CANNOT MAKE ME DO ANYTHING; YOU (or anyone else for that matter...) cannot dictate to ME (or any other potential seller...) how much I sell MY home for - or TRY to sell my home for - AS IT IS NOT YOURS TO MAKE THAT DECISION!

    YOU want to sell "properties" at knock-down prices - YOU GO AHEAD, with your own. You MIGHT even convince a mate or two (your Facebook page insists you have SEVEN...) that it is the decent thing to do.

    BUT NOT ME, matey! I will take my chances on "the market" - a market where, whatever I ask, I will only get what someone is prepared to pay. NOT a "market" where some bookworm decides that my bricks and mortar is worth 'X' compared to one a mile away that sold a year ago...

    Respectfully yours (not that you have done anything to earn or deserve any...),
    HOMESELLERS OF THE NATION.

    • 15 March 2011 11:07 AM
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    propertymatchUK Peter Hendry
    LAEA: Join the League Against Estate Agents. Text 'join' to 07792334547 (it will only cost price of a normal text). Help the market recover.

    How did that intiative go then Peter?

    • 15 March 2011 11:06 AM
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    "Estate agents have now wrecked the housing market - using arrogance, ignorance, and greed, (just as the bankers wrecked the lending market)."

    Thats a good one to discuss!

    • 15 March 2011 11:04 AM
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    When you petitioned the government on house prices, how much support did you get? (June 2010)

    1 signature isn't really a petition is it?

    I guess that isn't an accomplishment!

    • 15 March 2011 11:02 AM
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    It is your claim that you are accomplished, and after you have failed to gain any respect from your claims, posts and blogs I would genuinely like to see if there is any reason why onyone should take you seriously.

    This new petulant style isn't doing your credibility much good.

    Forget naming something you have achieved, lets concentrate on finding someone who has any respect for you.

    Sibley, Rant and Rave, FTBDave. surely one of them will speak up for you.

    • 15 March 2011 10:44 AM
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    Why should I?

    • 15 March 2011 10:39 AM
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    Name 1 thing that you have accomplished that can be checked and verified.

    • 15 March 2011 10:36 AM
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    Both myself and Henry Prior, whom are both accomplished and respected property professionals in our own rights, have failed to gain a consensus of view with those posting on these blogs. Why?

    Name 1 person, just 1 who is prepared to come on here and vouch for you Mr Hendry.

    • 15 March 2011 10:34 AM
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    There's a massive misunderstanding ballooning-up here and there is practically no common ground.

    Both myself and Henry Prior, whom are both accomplished and respected property professionals in our own rights, have failed to gain a consensus of view with those posting on these blogs. Why?

    Please think; there is only one common denominator in all of this. That is rather significant, don't you suppose?

    • 15 March 2011 10:03 AM
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    I'm out? Does that mean you have given up?

    I haven't mentioned Property Match. I and you were discussing your statement

    "The best thing for them to do is to learn how to value houses just as a surveyor would. It is reasonably simple to do and would give agents a pretty good fix on what price will materialise, when the mortgage valuer actually does come round to value the house that they have just sold subject to contract. Asking prices should bear these factors in mind, if they are to prove to be meaningful price guides."

    I have proved to you that in fact that is exactly what is happening. Not only do junior negotiators use the highly prized RICS comparison method, but so do vendors and so do applicants.

    Your attempt to sell lectures on the comparison method along with this long winded blog is a clear indication that your ego is out of control. Henry Pryor came unstuck by not providing a clear explanation of a subject he understands. You are coming from a starting point of having no respect from anyone and are banging on about a subject; at best you only have a scant knowledge of.

    You are unknowledgeable and unpleasant, Goodbye Mr Hendry

    • 15 March 2011 08:20 AM
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    You're just a load of duckers and weavers. Every time you're in a corner you just start banging on about Property Match.

    This is a blog about "It’s time to face the music and address the house price problem", remember?
    I'm out.

    • 14 March 2011 21:44 PM
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    RR - If you latest post was summarising you, your ideas and common sense, I would absolutely agree.

    Answer CL's original question - why and how is her stock on your site? Get your own content.

    Why put agents stock on there? It clashes with ALL of your radical/stupid ideas.

    ...and of course, YOU are responsible for all print on YOUR site.

    • 14 March 2011 21:16 PM
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    Childish, pathetic nonsense, moron.

    • 14 March 2011 21:05 PM
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    You are going to jail old son! You know as much about website law as you do property valuation.

    As the other anon poster has pointed out, your miracle cure is for agent to do what they are already doing.

    • 14 March 2011 20:37 PM
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    Utter rubbish.

    Anyway, we're still waiting to find out what, exactly, is supposed to be wrong?

    This MUST come to the site - not here, of course.

    • 14 March 2011 19:20 PM
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    You are legally liable for your own site. If you have been informed it is wrong it is a criminal offence not to switch it off.

    • 14 March 2011 19:01 PM
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    Country Lass;
    You misunderstand, once again.

    I am not offering to correct the information on the web, since we only read this.

    I am interested in helping by tracking where this information is currently being held, and hopefully, by whom.

    The fact that the info is online is nothing to do with us. It's not on our servers.

    We may be able to help you find out how the wrong information is being held online.

    • 14 March 2011 18:55 PM
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    How many Estate Agents are not using the Comparative method of valuation?

    The whole premise of your argument is that Estate Agents do not value like Surveyors yet you have just named the method 100% of agents, vendors and applicant do use. They compare like for like.

    This argument just stalled and spun into the ground

    • 14 March 2011 18:53 PM
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    Come On Pete, What is it called?

    • 14 March 2011 18:44 PM
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    Hello again Mr Secretive,
    The standard method of valuation for houses, uses recently completed comparable sales.
    These need to be adjusted, for time lapse, and differences in accommodation, size, plot, location etc., to arrive at the valuation of the subject property.

    • 14 March 2011 18:43 PM
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    Oh my dear Peter, you are still confused. Although I have pointed out the issues and incorrect details, the fact remains I DO NOT WANT THEM ON THERE!! so, my thanks for the offer of correct details, but I don't think so.

    And change my opinion? As you can probably guess, I am a woman and we generally change our minds depending on the weather and date. I am always willing to listen to ideas, until someone gives me reason to discount their views. Unfortunately you have done so, as I stated 'no innovation worthy of my consideration'

    I LIKE listening to other view points, I generally learn new things. Unlike many my age, I prefer wine and coffee bars where I can talk to my friends.

    • 14 March 2011 18:39 PM
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    It is taught, The reason for my question is to see if YOU can name it. or any of the other 4 standard metods of valuation.

    I doubt very much if anyone is going to pay to listen to you lecture about a valuation model that can be learnt and understood in less than 3 paragraphs.

    Just for the sake of your own credibility name the standard method of valuation.

    • 14 March 2011 18:25 PM
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    Thanks for the reply CL. There must be common ground here. If reason suggests a change of mind I, for one, am prepared change my opinions. Are you?
    I genuinely would like to know, say 2 sets of details you are publishing, the URLs of the correct versions, and what the discrepancies are that you read from the PM search engine? Best send the info direct to PM, obviously. I'm off for the rest of the day now.

    Reply to anon:
    "Which is the correct and accurate method of establishing value and asking price?"

    It's a shame this information is not taught to all appraisers already, by say The NAEA.
    I would be available to give valuation lectures on this. A few sessions would be needed. A venue, a sufficient number of delegates.
    Its not my ego, I'm not interested in winning. I'm just interested in helping. There's no obligation on your part to hear it though, you choose.


    Yadda Yadda Yadda - I don't think I get you. Who are you? What are you on about :-[

    • 14 March 2011 18:05 PM
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    Yadda Yadda Yadda, Blah Blah Blah!

    The rest isn't worth bothering with Mr Hendry. You have neither the wit, wisdom or social skills to be commenting this subject and all the years experience you claim to have seem to have been wasted. You actually appear to know very little detail about this subject and my assesment is that this is an after dinner discussion that has got horribly out of hand and you simply do not know how to stop it.

    • 14 March 2011 17:43 PM
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    My two main reasons for starting these discussions in earnest are to support the recovery of the housing market and, in the process of doing that, support my country in these extremely difficult times, economically speaking.

    There is one reason, your ego, you didn't like the fact you came up with a stupid unworkable idea before and are now trying to tell an industry that they don't value like surveyors.

    There is no substance to you blog and have not answered the one single question that would end all this discussion about valuing property.

    Which is the corrrect and accurate method of establishing value and asking price?

    • 14 March 2011 17:32 PM
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    I am a real person, wishing to explain what needs fixing

    Go and tell someone who cares what you think and isn't educated enough to think you don't know anything

    • 14 March 2011 17:27 PM
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    Trolls are pessimistic about the future.

    You are the one predicting our downfall.

    • 14 March 2011 17:24 PM
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    Troll's remarks are always inflammatory.

    It is your inflamatory style that is getting you into trouble

    • 14 March 2011 17:22 PM
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    Trolls don't talk sense. I do.

    I disagree and you admited to Ros that you were wrong with the last article about agents being forced to buy unsold stock.

    • 14 March 2011 17:21 PM
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    in an attempt to muzzle me.?

    Funny! debate with you is an attempt to muzzle you? Think about it!

    • 14 March 2011 17:18 PM
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    Oh I give up! You really don't see why you irritate me so much do you? Well, no matter.

    For the record, no the market is not perfect, but nor is it as dire as you and others seem to be saying it is. I refer you to the 73% conversion rate.

    I think that we can all agree that London is currently is a world of it's own, even the article says that. So, as I am not in London, I have no opinions on if they are lying or not, but I always try to think the best of people. You included.

    Fair enough, you say you don't scrape. How are the proeprty details ending up on there?

    I checked a random few properties, I have neither the time nor the patience to go through the whole site. One property is £5k overpriced (reduced in October) and was in fact withdrawn from the Internet in February. So I don't think an apology is order, unfortunately. If I am in the wrong, I will apologise, but I do not believe that I am.

    To try, once again, to explain my reaction to you. You seem, to me, to believe and publicise everything bad about my industry. Almost everytime I have tried to 'discuss' this, I hit a wall of stuborn pig-headedness that astonishes me. There does not seem to be any room in your head that you may not be the godlike creature you imagined, and that instead you are down on the planet with everyone else.

    You routinely dodge questions you do not wish to answer, then come back a while later to try again, but STILL refusing to answer the justified questions of those trying to understand you.

    I'm not interested in a slanging match with you, I am just so exasperated that you continue to duck and dodge, always claiming to be holier-than-thou.

    Yes, you annoy me. Yes, I wish I could understand what goes on in your head when you think about the property market. But ultimately, it doesn't matter to me. I get angry when I see people behave the way you have, but if anything I have said is unreasonably upsetting to you, I apologise for hurting your feelings.. But that still doesn't mean I don't think it.

    See Ya

    • 14 March 2011 17:17 PM
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    They always post online incognito (like you guys). I don't.

    As posted by?????????

    • 14 March 2011 17:16 PM
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    You're trying to deflect attention away from the questions I've asked. Let the Lass answer for herself.

    • 14 March 2011 17:13 PM
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    "For the Nth time, no we don't scrape.
    Please check your own entries online.
    Have you put the wrong prices in?
    Have you left them online when they are, in fact sold?
    Did you mean to update the photos but forgot? "

    In a nutshell, you are saying CL is pretty poor at her job and deflecting all responsibility away from yourself, which I find insulting and I am sure she will too.

    May I respectfully ask where you get this permission to list properties belonging to other agents? Other than to make your site look bigger (not better) than it is, what are the reasons for showing other agents' listings when "they" are offering "over-valued" stock - does this not go against EVERYTHING you crusade for?

    Apart from your chaotic suggestions, you have a dangerous and angering touch of hypocrisy and foolishness surrounding your position on many things.

    • 14 March 2011 17:01 PM
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    Country Lass:
    Whilst you seem to be interested in slanging it out, I'd be more interested in having a proper discussion. I expect most other readers would be too.
    I didn't quote you, I just meant that you seem to be giving the impression that things are generally OK out there, when they're not. I'm reinforcing the need for agents to take the current lack of activity in the market more seriously than they are.

    For example M&P in London are giving the impression that they have over 14 buyers registering for every property placed on the market and that gazumping is becoming rife in their region, whereas others posting about that (including yourself) are not seeing the same happening. There's confusion, even amongst the agents themselves and it's probably because someone is telling porkies. I'm suggesting that talking the market up, in that way, is disingenuous but it is often done by estate agents around springtime - no matter how bad things really are. Isn't that right? Who could disagree with that?

    On innovation, please read the whole blog article again, maybe a couple of times. If there's no new innovation there I really will eat my own tin hat :-]

    For the Nth time, no we don't scrape.
    Please check your own entries online.
    Have you put the wrong prices in?
    Have you left them online when they are, in fact sold?
    Did you mean to update the photos but forgot?

    I'd be interested in knowing how these errors have actually arisen and can assure you that we have not created them.
    Maybe we are being of service to you already, by bringing such matters to your attention? I hope so anyway.
    It would be nice for everyone to know where these errors arose from, just to close this argument.

    Please remember, if you genuinely had a grievance with us about information our search systems locate online, you could have politely made contact with us at our web site. You did not have to try blazing it across this blog, in a vain effort to try and discredit us, falsely.
    I'm now beginning to feel I could do with an apology from you, if it turns out that the published data, in fact, emanated from your own offices.

    • 14 March 2011 16:48 PM
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    RR, When have I said 'everything is fine in the country garden'? Never. The market here is moving slowly, the same as I imagine most places are, but with keeping our vendors updated, and giving good honest advice, we are getting by. The figures I quoted to PeeBee for our New Instructions - Sales for 2010 is 73%! Yes, transactions are lower, BIG FLIPPIN' DEAL! Everything is quieter. Walk into a pub and it'll be emptier than 2007. Life and the economy has changed.

    And as for resisting innovation? Please, who are you trying to kid? You have offered me NO idea worthy of my consideration. Therefore, I have no reasonable innovation to consider. Take the tin hat off, have another think and get back to me when you have a sensible idea.

    So, you don't scrape. How else do you explain MY properties on YOUR cr*ppy website? At the wrong prices. Even when they have sold. With my blooming name and phone number on them? I do not want anyone associating your delusions with my company. If it were possible to claim we were of a different species, rest assured I would.

    • 14 March 2011 14:48 PM
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    "Property Match is a vital tool to help point out the issues and to help to get the market functioning properly, for the benefit of all house-owners"

    PS Thank god I didn't have a coffee in my mouth when reading this quote.

    • 14 March 2011 13:27 PM
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    Realising Realty.

    On one hand, you say agents are over-valuing and killing the market. With the same hand, you are listing over-priced and out-dated listings in your website. I pose to you again, should you not have purchased the properties that have not sold on your site? Of course, from the direct listings to your site, you are marketing these for the seller.

    If your concerns of the market were actually genuine, your first course of action would be to cut all ties with the business. That is hard though, as you probably own it and nobody would want to buy it. You obviously have belief in your site which would lead to it being over-valued as we can all see it's pretty poor.

    Your forget that there is legislation is place for the agent to act in the best interests of the seller. Now, I am a firm believe that you give the buyer the best service that you possibly can, but this small piece of legislation means that you achieve the best price for a property.

    Of late, there have been 50,000 transactions per month - hardly bad considering we are crawling out of a recession.

    Yes, volume is down on the peaks of 2007, but this is not a fair comparable - most industries are now operating below levels of pre-recession.

    And for goodness sake, get this 3 x salary number out of your head. Where did that even come from? There is no written rule as to what prices should or shouldn't be - certainly none of your business anyway.

    Sadly, we have all given you the spotlight your ego craves by exposing your ideas as ridiculous on EAT. I see why you get air time though. The same way Jedward and Wagner did on the X Factor.

    • 14 March 2011 13:25 PM
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    Sir: In attempting to defend your skies, you are but a lone biplane against a squadron of F-22s. You are outclassed; outgunned; out-manoevred - and hopelessly out of luck!

    Interestingly, the only way you say you will respond to my questions (and BOY, have there been many...) is if I lift my anonymity. Awwww diddums. So - you are prepared to be considered a CHARLATAN by all and sundry based upon my posts, but you won't defend your position. Is that because you believe that YOU have more plausibility than me? Yes - I do believe it is - reading this: "Real name, address, place of work etc, and what qualifies you to be making the comments you do, as a self-proclaimed non-agent."

    You are getting NONE of the above. You see, I have NOTHING to prove - it is not ME who is trying to "support the recovery of the housing market and, in the process of doing that, support my country in these extremely difficult times, economically speaking." in the way you purport to be doing.

    Is it because I am NOT an Agent that you seek to belittle me, Sir - or is it because I have found your (poorly concealed) Achilles heel?

    The fact that I am not an Agent should allow you to crush my argument in seconds. You shouldn't need to seek me out to do it - and what will uncovering my identity do to embellish your position. Just prove to me - and everyone else reading this - that your intentions are worthy of consideration. The site administrators would pull my posts, were they deemed to be offensive, abusive or inappropriate. If my posts here were inappropriate, then those reading would put me in my place.

    And, believe me, I take heed of those people FAR more than your words - as they are the TRUE Voices of the Industry.

    You say I resist change and innovation. Sir - you could not be further from the truth. I LIVE AND BREATHE innovation. I seek it daily. That is why I read every post in this, and other sites - to welcome innovation with open arms.

    WHEN I SEE IT - I will let you know!

    Oh - and for the record - no-one had to trace your name, as you state happened. If you remember (of course you won't...), the story first broke on EAT about your 'innovative' idea of making Agents buy property thay had been unsuccessful in selling for a period of three months. Your name was all over the story. From there, the 'digging' you refer to was to find your company website - again, not difficult, as YOU posted your responses on that story under the name of the site...!. Yes - you even supplied the spade! But of course you did. EVERYTHING you do is calculated; measured - you were a Surveyor. That is how they work.

    Can I just point out that even on your own blog, you post anonymously! So DON'T come on here all high and mighty, sunshine. I am PeeBee - and that is all you need to know. My qualifications are that I smell a rat; I hear nothing from you but squeeks.

    • 14 March 2011 12:42 PM
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    Now I'll deal with the positive points:
    Whilst the positive comments made are small in number, their level of significance is massive and should not be underestimated in any way.

    Let's face it. It's a fact that the actual mortgage spend is currently far lower than average for this time of year.
    Many commentators, not just me, are certain that the current level of asking prices is solely to blame.

    After all, you simply cannot blame interest rates and lenders are prepared to lend at least up to 3x annual income.
    Who can blame them though, for insisting (mostly) on a max loan-to-value ration of 75%?

    If all asking prices were framed with careful reference to these parameters, people could afford to buy.
    When economic conditions change manifestly, as has now happened, the market must respond with similar changes in asking prices. It has not - yet.

    A recent comment in The Times says:
    … Until the average wage earner can save enough deposit to get a mortgage at 3x their annual income to purchase an average three bed house, prices are going to drop, it's not rocket science.

    I concur with this. Houses have to be 'affordable' to the populace, otherwise most people just won't be able to live in them.

    • 14 March 2011 10:49 AM
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    In an effort to try and deal with the most important issues raised by my article, I'll try and deal with the main negative points first:

    If you knew what 'Trolls' were, you'd know more about how to recognise one.
    I've consulted Caitlin Moran on this, as she seems to be able to sniff em out pretty convincingly.

    They always post online incognito (like you guys). I don't. If you remember, you traced my real name and published it here yourselves in an attempt to muzzle me. Unlike some of you guys, I'm not posting with any other alias than RR, just to put that record straight. I just wish you guys would stop being imbeciles and not do that either.
    Trolls don't talk sense. I do.
    Troll's remarks are always inflammatory. Mine are serious and factual.
    Trolls are pessimistic about the future. I'm not. I am confident that if estate agents took the correct path to adjust the housing market, it would come back to life - quickly.

    I am a real person, wishing to explain what needs fixing, using what knowledge I have gained, from both personal (and professional experience as a surveyor) whilst working in the real community.

    My two main reasons for starting these discussions in earnest are to support the recovery of the housing market and, in the process of doing that, support my country in these extremely difficult times, economically speaking.

    My conclusion is, those of you peddling disdain and disapproval about whatever I may say, look more like 'Trolls' than I do, in this particular debate.

    The KERRRRCHING effect is, unlike PeeBee what implies, totally in the hands of estate agents. If they were to start marketing houses at proper market values, sales would immediately start to materialise. They could all then start earning a living again! If they don't, they may starve and the market may well stagnate in the process. If agents can't see this, they must be blind to the situation they are facing themselves with. How sad is that?

    Worse, those that seem to be extolling the virtues of a'don't post anything here' argument are trying to act as a cartel. Are we happy to let 'them' the famous five, run everything? I, for one, hope not.

    PeeBee in particular, no-wonder your'r an ex-agent. You're so dismissive of many people's ideas. You need to see the positives in more things, in my candid opinion. If you seriously want me to respond to the ludicrous questions you raise, which are quite out of context with regard to the argument being proposed, firstly provide us with your real identity. Real name, address, place of work etc, and what qualifies you to be making the comments you do, as a self-proclaimed non-agent.

    --
    All I am saying, in essence, is agents are distorting the whole of the housing market and causing it to stall.
    I'm flagging this up, so that 'they' the agents might deal with the problem urgently.

    If they deal with it correctly, the market will start moving again, with houses being sold in sufficient numbers for people to be able to move, as they would like to, and agents will then earn enough of a living to avoid large scale compulsory office closures.
    --

    What I am saying has got nothing to do with the online business I work in, or the publicising of that.
    The online business is there, ready to help, in case agents should unfortunately fail to make the necessary vital adjustments - and if the sellers want an alternative to being forced to deal with the very agents responsible for causing the slump in transaction levels in the first place.

    Even though I'm working there, I would still imagine the vast majority of house owners would prefer to use an 'efficient estate agent' rather than having to do most of the work themselves by using the online marketing facilities that we are able to offer. However, there might be some sellers who would prefer to use us in any case, and deal with the marketing of their own property by themselves. What's wrong with that?

    PeeBee, why don't you look at the problem' wholesale' instead of trying to slag Property Match, presumably through sheer fright, and ignorance about what is really going wrong in the market and why.

    Lass, we do not, repeat not, scrape agent's properties for our site. Why are you, like PeeBee, so prejudiced, about new innovations?
    Sorry but the idea that everything in the country garden is fine right now, is just cloud cuckoo land.

    Wardy, I'm ready for a one to one with you. It would be good to talk.

    Property Match is a vital tool to help point out the issues and to help to get the market functioning properly, for the benefit of all house-owners. I have not promoted the site here, except to demolish false criticisms of it as levelled by you and other estate agents who seem rather worried by its very presence on the Internet!!!


    Asking price issues:
    Just so that you can't argue it's only me saying this, here's an extract of an article on The Times web site currently. It's about agents coming up with wildly different figures at market appraisal and how confusing it is for sellers to decide what to do, or who to appoint:

    Owner:
    I am planning to put my four-bedroom cottage, just outside Bath, with an acre of land, on the market soon. I have had three agents come by for a valuation, with the highest one £85,000 more than the lowest. Which agent should I go for? 

    Senior partner a very important firm:
    There is a school of thought that says when presented with three different valuations, you are best off going for the middle one, as this is likely to be the most accurate reflection of your property’s value. But this is an oversimplification. Yes, you need to be wary of agents who overvalue in order to secure an instruction and, less commonly, undervalue in order to achieve a quicker sale, but that’s not to say the agent with the mid-range valuation is correct. It’s important to take into account a number of other factors. Do they have specialist knowledge of your area, and comparable sales? Also, look at the length of contract offered, commission levels and any additional charges, such as for marketing and brochures. Make a decision based on the agent’s costs combined with which agent has the best local knowledge and service.

    http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/style/homes_and_gardens/Move/article561925.ece

    • 14 March 2011 10:48 AM
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    Mr Hendry has mis-quoted many facts and extracts from stories that have been published on Estate Agent Today.

    It is surprising that someone as sure of his opinion has not been able to find time to defend his position or answer some of the questions asked of him.

    • 12 March 2011 22:38 PM
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    To be fair, I'm surprised people can afford rents of £20k a week!

    • 12 March 2011 10:08 AM
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    Brit doesn't understand that some people earn more than the average price of a house each week

    He would probably be shocked to find that people can afford rents of £20,000 per week.

    It is ignorance that motivates his posts and the best thing to do is ignor them

    • 12 March 2011 08:24 AM
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    Brit1234, AoS is referring to sales transactions rather than mortgage transactions. Y'know those things you are trying to stop?

    • 12 March 2011 07:18 AM