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Written by rosalind renshaw

The housing market contracted in October as the number of sellers and buyers declined month-on-month, the NAEA reported this morning.

While sales levels were the same as in September, with the average branch selling seven properties in the month, activity levels fell back.

Michael Jones, president of the NAEA, said that sellers were unwilling to accept falling house prices and buyers were suffering from restrictive lending criteria.

The average number of house hunters registered with each branch dropped to 218 in October compared with 247 in September, while the number of houses available for sale dropped from an average of 72 per branch in September to 67 in October.

The percentage of sales made to first-time buyers increased in October from 20% to 23%, the NAEA claimed.

Jones said: “Mortgage restrictions will need to be eased if we are to see any real increases across the market, moving into the early part of 2011.”

Earlier this week, the RICS reported that average sales per estate agency firm slipped to 15.2 in October. This was down from 16.7 in September and compares to the long-term average of 26.8 sales per month.

Comments

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    Nice blog post. Greenlet

    • 14 May 2012 17:38 PM
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    Hmmm... Could be that 'R' is obviously struggling to string together a response without using foul, abusive vocabulary...

    Or maybe he just doesn't like being exposed as a fake ;0)

    • 23 November 2010 17:17 PM
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    No, PeeBee, look, this guy is the real deal mate.

    He’s a successful, rich, chauffer driven family man with a hot MILF at home, brilliant job, and I was pleased to see that he’s getting 100% of his bonus this year (100 flippin percent!), he’s been all over the world and remember he travels first class, no economy for this cat.

    And most of all he’s got a proper job, proper, not a pointless one, maybe he’s the leader of a noble children’s charity or arranges relief to the likes of the Haitian earthquake disaster - no, ive got it, he’s a pioneering surgeon who’s knowledge and skills have saved many lives, or a scientist that has discovered a way of feeding the developing world – im not sure but definitely not pointless he has made this quite clear, several times.

    I think a man of this stature should be able to indulge in some agent baiting, yes its weird but the more I learn about him the more I think that with what he brings to the lives of all he meets he has earned the right to have a cheeky little secret, also a man like this can function quite normally in his hugely successful life so all his equally awe inspiring mates that aren’t in his secret agent winding up club wont know – bit like if he wore women’s underwear – where’s the harm?

    Anyway, we wont hear from him until later, he dropped his kids of at school (I think in his Aston Martin but he is likely to correct me later that it’s a Bugatti) and has had his driver to take him to a series of meetings so he wont post until he’s got back to his mansion, given Mrs R (she’s an amazing shag you know, he said so) a mind blowing bunk up and settled down to pursue his hobby, so hang about till about 11.00pm – seems to be his time regardless of time zone but that’s body clocks for you.

    ……………….of course if he’s just some sad little no body that sustains himself on a diet of HPC and Property Bee and lives a miserable life in a hateful rented property as you imply then I shall be very disappointed indeed. I do hope I haven’t been taken in by a Walter Mitty type.


    Jonnie

    • 19 November 2010 13:34 PM
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    'R'. There. I start the way I intend to continue - addressing you as you wish to be addressed: no cheap digs; no bastardisations; no hilariously funny angles.

    I am going to keep this simple. I am also going to do something you have done - assume. YOU got it wrong - VERY wrong (but back to that later...) - but I will follow suit nevertheless, and will assume for the pourpose of this post that you are the same 'R' who has posted all those on this story.

    So - whether or not you have been doing whatever lights your fire in Singapore or just wanted to big yourself up, you come on here claiming, waaaay back to Monday, "I'm an EA myself, and often wonder just why soooo many people hate our entire profession." Interesting - since everything you subsequently say distances yourself from the industry. I believe you to be no more an Estate Agent that I AM (and that, sunshine, is where YOUR assumation went off track!), simply a wind-up merchant of (self-believed) biblical proportions, who cannot control his fingers enough over a keyboard to cut out the gutter language never mind hold a decent argument. I bet you were great fun in the playground - bolstering around with your pidgeon chest heralding the arrival of the rest of you; only to find the REAL bully-boys waiting for you to push over the poor little kid wearing calipers so they had a good excuse to give you a dose of your own medicine.

    You see, people like you are what you are. I am pleased that you have a "PROPER JOB". I only hope that it doesn't involve meeting people, as you come across as grossly underqualified and massively underskilled to handle such responsibility as interaction with the human race. And CERTAINLY neither fit nor able to handle what an Agent has to deal with on a day-in, day-out basis. People like you, that is.

    Or am I wrong...? Are you a failing Agent who hates your profession so much because it has failed to give you the things in life you want that you will try to kill the beast from within? 98% of Agency staff don't get out of the job all they want, mate - but they keep on at it because first and foremost they enjoy what they do. They MUST do - look what they have to deal with!


    Jonnie - give it up mate. This one's not worth your time. He's just baiting you, trying to get you to lose it on here so he can parade your head on a pike on HPC, methinks! Sad life for some, don't you think?

    • 19 November 2010 10:40 AM
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    R,

    Okay well call it a night - you go and enjoy Mrs R, make sure you leave her looking like a painters radio.

    I presume you're dropping the kids off in the Aston in the morning or is the driver taking you all in the S Class?

    Regardless, good night mate. Hopefully Roz will leave this thread up so we can keep in going a bit more

    Jonnie

    • 18 November 2010 23:42 PM
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    James.

    You're absolutely right, and I acknowledge that 100%. Thanks for giving me the chance to be a little bit less polemical here.

    Absolutely, there are some very knowledgeable local EA's around here (I won't say where "here" is, or Jonnie, PeeBrain and the rest of the posse will be round beating me to death with some twigs in vases!) but you're right.

    There are many good and professional EAs, (not enough IMHO,) but it's people like "Jonnie." "PeeBrain" and others who give you such a bad name, that it makes otherwise normal members of society pop round with baseball bats...

    Warmest regards to the rest of you guys and gals, who don't turn hubris and obnoxiousness into a way of life.

    "Out" for now. I have a life and a wife, and am going to enjoy both....

    BTW - how's "Movember" going Jonnie; or have you found yourself to be wanting in that department....

    ROFLMAO!!!

    R

    • 18 November 2010 23:26 PM
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    Could not resist dropping in on this thread again

    Clearly the lunatics are running the asylum

    I wonder if "R" is pretending to be everyone else in order to keep this insane agent bashing going.......

    There are some very nice hard working people working in agency, some wide boys, and some stuffy old farts too, not all are lucky lazy parasites my friend

    • 18 November 2010 23:12 PM
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    Feckin' hell Jonnie. You're psychic mate.

    I did all of those - and much more besides. That's precisely what stopovers, comfy airline lounges, and free champagne are all for. (How was Starbucks at lunchtime, BTW, or did you bring a sandwich in, coz times are hard?!)

    It's what those of us with real jobs call "multi-tasking," "being efficient" or "being able to tie our shoelaces and surf the web at the same time..."

    I had a really nice time in Singapore, and it was very nice of you to check in on that. I'll send you some photos sometime, because you sure as hell will never make it there, unless you're on a package holiday, or Sibley asks you over for a slightly disappointing dirty weekend.

    And since you ask, Mrs R is a cracking shag, and was waiting for me when I got home, and I'll be taking the kids to school tomorrow before my meetings for the day, so actually life's pretty peachy all-round.

    However, since I have no respect whatsoever for you, I think it's important that I can find a few minutes, from time to time, to wind up some scum-sucking slime for a laugh - and boy is it working big-time!

    Only one mistake; I didn't browse the latest Mercedes S-Class specification in the "lynge".... Because I've already GOT ONE. Except I don't drive it - I have someone to do that for me!!!!

    You truly are absolutely priceless, and I'm almost starting to pity you - for your desperation to have the last word, with a complete stranger on the internet. You say maybe you really DO know me, but I seriously doubt it - I cleaned out the insteps of my shoes tonight, and they were pretty clean, so it looks like you didn't "stick around" long enough for me to have had the pleasure...

    Anyway, aren't you too busy to be online at this time of night, what with all your Marketing Appraisals that are crowding in tomorrow morning?

    R xxxx (you can kiss it four times!)

    • 18 November 2010 22:13 PM
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    AceofSpades....

    So. You're bored, are you?

    Doctor R prescribes two hours of Minesweeper in the morning, followed by some tinkering with pwoperdee descriptions on Rightmove - that we'll all spot in five seconds on Property Bee - and then maybe a bite of lunch.

    Then three hours of looking out of the window, hoping someone will come in to buy some over-priced crap.

    That'll sort Friday for you.

    Not sure about Saturday, or next week though. Or the rest of your life.

    If I were you, I'd be dreading that inevitable question in a few years time;

    "Grandad, what did YOU do with your life?

    WHAT - you took pictures of houses and put them on the internet, then got money for passing on the real work to a lawyer...?

    Couldn't you have made some medicines, saved some lives, or done something faintly useful with the precious gift of life...?

    Ooh Grandad - you really wasted your life being a parasite, didn't you?!"

    BTW - my donut's jammier than jammy today. Just found out I'm getting my full bonus this year (and no, I'm not a banker - that ain't a PROPER JOB either...)

    How about you?

    Anyway, Jonnie's a bit absent right now? Is he sucking it up like a good 'un, or did he reinvent himself as AceofSpades / Confused.com / PeeBrain or someone else...?

    R xxx (as in "x my ass")

    • 18 November 2010 21:49 PM
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    R,

    Oh my god, I thought this story might have vanished by now, but my goodness im pleased it hasn’t.

    Please, please don’t stop, I appreciate that you are a bit of a berk and there is also a strong chance someone has stitched you up and used your name for this post but the whole thing is great, more please………….I really hope the post really is from the same R below and not an imposter.

    I think for it to really work we have to believe that its all true and you really were sat in that lounge in Singapore, absolutely lovely it is, everything you could want, the flight there will have been brilliant as well (First Class for heavens sake) although I would have thought the staff would be in impeccable uniforms rather than cheap suits but im going off the point and worrying that the little details might put some holes in the story.

    So R – there you are in the lap of luxury feeling very happy and content with the glow of success radiating from you, fit women and interesting men to engage in conversation with, cocktails, fine food and about an hour to burn, so why not use the complimentary internet access, after all you paid thousands for the flight so why not.

    You could email some friends, send you doting kids a note through Facebook, check you bank balance, the news, have a look at your shares performance, browse the Mercedes Benz S class specification, even have a look at your next exciting trip across the globe………………………..but no you decide to post on a little known website that sometimes tops 800 visitors a time to satisfy your urge to make estate agents cross……….. I don’t get it – did your Mrs leave you for one or something…………you and your mysterious network of fellow agent bothers must have a motivation so what is it that makes you spend precious time trying to bait us, isn’t there another cause worthy of your attention

    In fairness it doesn’t matter – you are a legend, a bit unstable and odd and definitely an utter prat, but a legend.

    Hope the rest of the flight was as agreeable for you as the first leg, please post again soon – maybe from The Bahamas??

    Of course it might all be lies but I prefer to run with your version.

    Jonnie

    • 18 November 2010 21:43 PM
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    I forgot to comment on this one...

    "And you're right, it's not all bad for me - because I've got a PROPER JOB!!!"

    Not seen classic lines like that since David Brent from The Office.

    I'm sure there's more cringeful/embarassing lines in R's boastful, hateful and self-important drivel, but I got bored half way and couldn't finish it!

    An no, before you ask, I do not have ADHD...it just bored the hell out of me.

    • 18 November 2010 17:19 PM
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    Who's taken the jam out of R's doughnut?

    Chin up R, it might never happen.

    • 18 November 2010 17:07 PM
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    R

    You need help mate.

    I have friends in the mad house who are less angry than you.

    • 18 November 2010 16:35 PM
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    Darn it - you got me there, ItsNotAllBadThen...

    Bang to rights mate.

    Qantas First Class lounge in Singapore it was - and full marks to you for paying attention.

    And you're right, it's not all bad for me - because I've got a PROPER JOB!!!

    At the time, I was sharing a very salubrious lounge with some very beautiful people, on a stopover on the way home. The only young pups, in cheap suits and with too much product in their hair, were serving us drinks - so clearly not an EA's convention....

    Anyway, there's quite a few of us, who wile away a few minutes from time to time, winding up some desk-bound numpties in their little glass-windowed offices. It must be really soul-destroying, having a world that doesn't stretch beyond the next "Marketing Appraisal," and where the only competition you're up against is puffing old ex-public school buffoons, with wet patches on the front of their cheap suits, or cocky arrogant kids like Jonnie who think they are so - like - "it.."

    And PeeBrain, I made a couple of mildly risque comments about "Jonnie," who then retorted with the sort of obnoxious bile that we all expect from EA's, and which leads most people with a proper, value-adding job in life to despise you for the pond-life you are. I don't think I'm the one you need to accuse of playground behavior...

    Oh - and my original point?

    It's kind of linked to why people like me can have a little bit of fun this way; because this site, the hub of all things EA-ish, allows anyone with a fake email address to sign in, anonymously, and post pretty much whatever they want.

    Un-edited, un-moderated, un-professional, un-sophisticated, un-impressive - pretty much a perfect reflection of the sector that gathers here :-)

    Adios amigo - until next time I pop by with another anonymous handle, and fake email address. Or, will it be me?!?!

    R

    • 18 November 2010 15:43 PM
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    'R': Apologies for jumping in to your two-man (sorry - person) battle with Jonnie - but it has to be said that for someone who purports to be so proud of his/her/perfers-not-to-disclose profession, your posts, which are littered with foul, abusive terminology, project a far different picture.

    If the persona you display on this website is your own, I would LOVE to be a fly on the wall in one of your marketing appraisals...

    And you had the absolute cheek to say to him "I genuinely doubt that your foul online personality is, in reality, "well covered with a professional outer manner."" I will paraphrase one of your other comments which sums it up nicely I believe - "What you see (in this instance, read...) is what you get."

    At least Jonnie is right most of the time.

    Did you ever have a point to make, by the way? It appears to have got lost in the overpadding of schoolyard name-calling you encased it in...

    • 18 November 2010 13:46 PM
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    R

    My basic time zone understanding suggests you were east of Mumbai at the point you posted??? cant be all bad for you agenst then? flightd dont come cheap for that faraway
    Agree that Jonnie is a gobshite

    • 17 November 2010 23:58 PM
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    I logged on to see if Fletch had answered my last post, bit of a shame he hasn't would have liked to have seen his take on it but the story has come off the main page so fair enough.

    I have had a look based on the last post at HPC and I see the dislike for EAs which is pretty strong but I would highlight the damage the banks have done, we don't blame the hard working staff and cashiers in the branches and perhaps a similar attitude to the normal 'foot soldiers' in EA might be a welcome idea, most of us are just normal people earning a living - it's a tiny percentage of the bosses that the anger should be aimed at?

    Also this Jonnie - for what it's worth they seem like a wind up merchant to me and giving them fuel with replys just plays into his hands. R, I think you would have been wise to have ignored him and not given him a platform?

    • 17 November 2010 22:07 PM
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    Jonnie....

    "Your turn" ?!

    Naah, can't be arsed mate. You keep on digging that hole, and I'll get on with my life and my job.

    FWIW it was early morning where I was, when I last posted, but no doubt you're still a big shot in your ten square miles of Blighty....

    Still, you've got yourself quite a reputation elsewhere!!!!!!!!!! Trip on over to HPC and check out what real people think of you....

    Take care. Chummy :-)

    R

    • 17 November 2010 17:30 PM
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    Fletch,

    So how long do you think it's going to take for prices to get to that average?

    I'm assuming you are in the average wage band so when they drop to that level you intend to buy at the average price?

    What will that get you in the area you want to be in?

    What data is it you have now that you didn't have bettween 97 and 07 that would have informed you that you should have brought at some point in that period?

    And lastly, why didnt you do what your landlord did - you were on nearly 50% more salary so what put you off buying back then?

    Sorry to ask so many questions but you are clearly a passionate HPC man and the first I have seen to have a civilised exchange with an estate agent so without us simply trading insults yours and your fellow HPC groups position might become clearer

    • 17 November 2010 08:22 AM
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    Hi Jay.

    Yes absolutely.
    That figure sound about right to me. Year after year they rose further and further out of reach. If we had known that was going to happen, we would have all jumped on the wagon back in 1997, when I was in my early twenties, and earning £14k P.A.

    As it was I spend years paying off a prats mortgage who was able to borrow enough from the Bradford And Bingley to buy a number of houses. This prat, only earned £11k per year. F@@@@@G unbelievable.

    I too would like to see Gordon Brown and co, hanging from Tower Bridge.

    Its soul destroying.

    FTBers comment is spot on.

    • 16 November 2010 23:10 PM
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    Fletch,

    So you are sitting tight until prices drop to an average of £77,550 or 3.3 times the average UK salary?

    • 16 November 2010 22:18 PM
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    Get Profile

    In 1997, according to the Office of National Statistics, the national average wage was £16,666.

    According to the Nationwide Building Society the Average House price in 1997 was £55k.

    £16,666/£55,000 = 3.3x salary.

    By 2007, at the peak of the boom [according to the Office of National Statistics] the national average wage had risen to £23.5k

    The Average House Price in 2007 was £185k.

    £185,000/£23.5k = 7.8x salary

    Conclusion:

    The median salary in the UK has risen by only 6.8K from 1997 to 2007 as house prices have trebled.

    Conclusion:

    The Average house price would need to fall by around 60% in value, from its peak 2007 valuation, to fall back in line with historically acceptable inflationary affordability.

    [And as stated earlier, over two thirds of the UK earn less than average wage.]

    • 16 November 2010 19:19 PM
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    Fletch (and I presume James Fletcher also...): Sorry that I haven't responded before now - you're obviously keen to point out the error of my ways so here I am...

    To everyone else: sorry - this is going to be a long one...

    ANYWAYS... The old saying is that it takes a big man to admit he is wrong. In this instance, I guess I must fall into the category of 'big men', as it seems the original writer is correct (although the 'original writer' may in fact have been someone else as I found the post online on The Guardian website on 13 November...). Am I the only one who finds it funny how there needs to be several graphs - several sets of figures - for what should basically be a simple exercise? And mores to the point, how statistics are twisted to suit one person but not another.

    SO - with that in mind I would like to look at the Nationwide figures a bit more closely - and go a bit further back to demonstrate a point.

    In Q4 1952, when good old Nationwide started their House Price Index, the average (non-index linked, inflation-adjusted or from what I can see anything else...) house price was a mere £1891. Think how the poor buggers felt who bought then, when in Q3 1952 a whole tenner was wiped off the average value!! Disaster! Within a year or so, the tenner became thirty-eight quid. Were houses about to become worthless? they would no doubt be thinking...

    Nah! - by Q4 1962 two things happened: I was born; and house prices had steadily climbed following that small 'blip' to an average of £2673 - an increase of 41% over the whole ten year period.

    The NEXT ten years was mental by any stretch of the imagination – consistent quarter-on-quarter rises resulting in prices hitting a whopping £7880 - 295% of the 1962 high. That's more than HPCs (or whoever penned it in The Guardian… ) “staggering” 245.5%!

    THEN we had The Osmonds to contend with as well...!

    And so we continue onwards and forwards, to Q4 1982. Guess what: apart from the music getting better, with the exception of one quarterly period which showed a small reduction, house prices 'suffered' a 325% increase to £25580. THREE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE PERCENT!!

    By 1992 buyers and sellers had obviously come to their senses, as the average price was £50168 – a measly 96% increase on the decade before. Thank Gawd for some slack being cut, what?

    2002 – average price £115940 – 231% increase. Oh oh – back on the rollercoaster again…

    So here we are, part way through Q4 2010. Not a full decade, admittedly – but let's see what the figures say anyway. Q3 stood at £167354. That’s 44% up. ONLY 44%, should I say. Considering that NO-ONE – not even ME – thinks that prices are going to do much in the next year or so, it looks like that’s the best we’ll see. Pretty much back to the figures of 1952-1962.

    Estate Agents DON’T control prices. I don’t control prices. YOU don’t control prices. Prices control themselves, because buyers buy and sellers sell. Agents simply do what they are paid to do – get the best price for the seller. If you CAN’T buy, then they can’t make you. If you WON’T buy, then again they can’t make you.

    But they CAN continue to sell to those who CAN and WILL buy – even if the numbers are reduced…

    • 16 November 2010 16:45 PM
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    Fletch / James Fletcher – he’s right, why are you re posting the same thing you put up just this morning?

    • 16 November 2010 15:32 PM
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    Quick note to the ‘grammar specialists’ – yes I know, and im sorry.

    • 16 November 2010 14:04 PM
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    LivingWithTheInlaws,

    Firstly I am not here to enter into a fight with you or anyone and I certainly do not believe that any potential buyer that has been priced out of the market is ‘flipping burgers’ – I am however an estate agent, rather than HPC.

    The point that stands out from your last post is something that I caught on the news last night, that being the enormous upward pressure house prices in villages and rural communities where ‘locals’ such as your self (I presume the ‘in laws’ live in the village) that have family ties there and in your case presumably children with places in the village school are being out priced by the ‘second home buyers’.

    The problem with second home buyers is by definition are well off and the property they own in a rural area is not a reflection of their salary in terms of income multiples to price, this creates an example of an area bucking the trend and hopefully is a an illustration to you and others (such as Daniel Meeks) of how national figures don’t reflect local issues – if city centre flats in Leeds drop 90% it doesn’t help your family buy in your village.

    Often such people are also in for the long term and wont / don’t need to sell when prices are coming down – adding to the problem.

    And a quick defence of estate agents in this if I may – I have been a village agent and you do become very much part of the community like any business does but when you are appointed to sell a property in the village it’s the owner that sets the rules involving who they will sell too, not the agent – I have seen an instance where an elderly village resident passed away and she had placed a covenant on her cottage that it could only be owned by a ‘local’ I don’t recall the detail of how this worked in practise but it did work, I the same way that some housing association / part buy / part let properties can only be occupied by locals.

    The village and rural price issue can only be solved by local ‘sellers’ refusing to sell to outsiders and this in hard cash that is a big ask, and with demand for such property always outweighing supply so dramatically is also an illustration of local issues affecting house prices.

    • 16 November 2010 14:00 PM
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    Thank you Fletch, you have sent the same message again in case people ignored you. Only child syndrome?

    • 16 November 2010 13:58 PM
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    PeeBee at november 15th 1818

    FTB is Correct. And You PeeBee are incorrect. Your lack of understanding of your own industry, highlights a quite staggering level of stupidity..

    You are looking at the wrong chart PeeBee

    [The chart below is adjusted for inflation,]

    www.housepricecrash.co.uk/indices-nationwide-national-inflation.php

    "From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k.
    A 33.3% rise over ten years.
    From 1997 to 2007, the Average House Price rose from £55k to £190k [Nationwide Building Society figures]
    A staggering 245.5% increase over the same period. [Ten years.]

    Try to use your BRAIN a little bit PeeBee.

    • 16 November 2010 13:15 PM
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    We're not all burger flipping 18 year olds on HPC, you know. I'm middle aged, have a young family, a way above average wage and I've owned two houses before. However, we are still priced out of the village where we live.

    There is no such thing as a property ladder. Equity earned is only ever used to leverage more debt. Debt which is no longer being shrunk away by wage inflation. It is unsustainable and I refuse to compete with buyers who are prepared to lie about their earnings and I refuse to prop up this pyramid scheme.

    • 16 November 2010 12:49 PM
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    Daniel,

    Okay – we might never agree on this localised / property type issue, but, are you an agent or HPC? It doesn’t matter to me which but for a proper conversation we need to know each others starting position.

    Please do trust me (im an estate agent!) but I want to add balance to this and add some value to the debate rather than trade insults – if there are slightly less extremes to the 2 sides then that can only be good………….it would probably make for a good web forum.

    I have read all the posts and all I see is the HPC side saying down and the EA side saying not – inconclusive.

    If you are an agent then you will also know that lower prices are not the end of the world for us, fast aggressive drops are a short sharp pain and slow shifting drops have happened many times in the past so please be assured im not trying to ‘shout’ a living for myself out of this although this needs to be matched with the ‘other side’ not trying to shout house prices down to the level they want…….that wont help

    • 16 November 2010 10:56 AM
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    And not one of you have addressed any of the specific points by the people on here who have been priced out.

    • 16 November 2010 10:37 AM
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    Sorry Jay, you have not been offensive, [unlike the typical EA bum wipe Jonny] but what you have written is still balls.

    And ALL the reasons why its balls have already been highlighted on this very page.

    Read ALL the comments.

    • 16 November 2010 10:35 AM
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    I think something that hasn’t been highlighted enough here is the differing effect of the market on different areas and property types.

    As an agent I agree that in some sectors, especially flats big falls are and will be happening, but looking at family homes the demand is so strong that it seems the downturn hasn’t affected them at all and in the very upper end of the market there seems to have been no negative impact (see article on Savills)

    The house price indexes do need to be ‘drilled down’ more to property type and area, for example one borough of London has a different market to a neighbouring one.

    The HPC lot are sort of right but are being to broad brush with it, yes the average salary across the UK doesn’t equal the average price multiple but in my area a decent family 4 bed is about £300,000 and an income of a typical family of over £100,000 isn’t unusual by any means, however at the peak flats were hitting £200k but the income of a typical FTB just based on the figures here is a joint salary of £36 to £48k.

    Until a detailed and truly reliable method of tracking price trends is available confusion will rule – I don’t think we are right to dismiss the HPC lot but they are wrong to dismiss us as well.

    • 16 November 2010 10:26 AM
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    R,

    I like this; even with your wet patch getting bigger I think we should make this our new game of;

    ‘I think I know you Chummy’

    Now before we kick off with the next round – thanks for the response, gone 11.00 at night and you’re on the web? what does Mrs R think, or is it your ‘Computer time’, regardless thanks for taking you hand of it long enough and sparing the time to be thinking about me………………did you slump into bed and think to your self; ‘That told the little cock?’

    Anyway – im guessing you are a proper old soldier, been doing it years, dead filing that has some of it on ancient scrolls – you’ve sold pretty much every house in your patch at some time, I think you might also be the owner? – you don’t have a partner because I cant imagine you showing them the posts and saying ‘hey, have a look at this’ you work alone and certainly were at 11.00 last night, so sole trader and with a small team, one neg and a secretary?…………..im thinking you own it because you say you’ve done well out of it and as a manager rather than owner you would have only been pulling 70k max in the good times so im going with owner……how am I doing?

    Now I think you’re sat there in an office that could have done with a refit 10 years ago but is perfectly serviceable, probably a bit of a farty smell to it but your biggest problem is the corporate tossers you hate and have zero respect for possibly doing a bit better than you? – Although you console yourself by dismissing everything they take on as over priced rubbish that you wouldn’t want, so that’s okay.

    Now I think you’re probably a pleasant sort of chap, a bit foul mouthed but your posts don’t have enough welly behind them to be someone that is outwardly and angry type but your ‘sheltered’ view on life and people is a result of having been confined the same little bit of England for so long and having spent a career dealing with the same respectable members of the public for ever.

    You don’t play in the big league do you? im sensing that if a big developer walked in with 150 houses to sell you wouldn’t know where to start with a pitch except give them detailed and robust comparable advice but stick you in a board room under pressure with ………..well it would be alien to you.

    So, thoroughly nice man, knows his onions but sadly never quite made it out of his postcode district so a bit 2 dimensional. And not sophisticated enough to realise that there are people out there that love winding him up just for fun even if the posts I make do take a bit of time and thought to press the right buttons and have the right tone.

    As for irony, well R, it was you on the net last night at 11.00 arguing with a caricature but I love your for it as whenever I post as my self I don’t get anything but sensible responses on the subject in hand.

    Oh……..stay of the internet late at night; you’ll go blind you know, ill let you know when Jonnie joins the dole queue but meanwhile thanks for giving him what he needs to amuse his owner and his mates……………..in fact im making him redundant today, so you’re right on that.

    Your turn.

    Jonnie

    • 16 November 2010 10:09 AM
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    Affordability:

    The national average median salary is £24,907, but over two-thirds of the population of the UK earn under the national average salary.
    Six million people were in the lowest pay bracket of less than £10,000, including cleaners and hairdressers according to a 2008 Consensus.

    Housing Shortage:

    Well over a million BTL properties have been sitting empty since 2008.

    HOUSE PRICES ARE GOING DOWN DOWN DOWN.

    50% reductions easily.

    • 16 November 2010 09:55 AM
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    Now now children it is all getting a bit personal don't you think?

    Let's face it, many sellers do not have to move, therefore they are reluctant to reflect the obvious downward pressure on prices in their asking prices - often sitting there with the "my house has not come down in value" cap on. This is made worse by agents who will take listings at any price.

    Agents are happiest when selling for the best price as it re-inforces their abilities, and even in this market it can be done.

    I have just got a client £30k more than his best efforts trying to sell privately.

    However, there is no doubt that there are very few buyers around - especially at this time of year.

    Will be better in the Spring - let's see who is around to talk about it then - I can see a few closures looming in my trading towns (have 13 of them).

    • 16 November 2010 09:38 AM
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    Oh dear yet another comments section on yet another website overrun with burger flipping 18yr olds from housepricecrash that somehow think they're owed a house for nothing.

    How about trying to work your way up from the bottom instead of starting at the top?

    • 16 November 2010 09:32 AM
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    Nationwide average house prices adjusted for inflation

    1987 Q1 £40,882
    1997 Q1 £55,810
    2007 Q4 £183,959

    • 16 November 2010 09:23 AM
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    PeeBee at november 15th 1818

    FTB is Correct.

    You are looking at the wrong chart PeeBee

    [The chart below is adjusted for inflation,]

    www.housepricecrash.co.uk/indices-nationwide-national-inflation.php

    "From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k.
    A 33.3% rise over ten years.
    From 1997 to 2007, the Average House Price rose from £55k to £190k [Nationwide Building Society figures]
    A staggering 245.5% increase over the same period. [Ten years.]

    Try to use your brain a little bit PeeBee

    • 16 November 2010 09:11 AM
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    "Brought"? You'd have thought being in sales that you'd know it's "bought".

    • 16 November 2010 08:30 AM
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    "Glosagent"

    Clearly not an agent at all but another hpc troll.

    Anyway....

    Nice to see you care so much about FTB's. I take it you must be deeply upset then for the million or so who have been frozen out of the housing market by onerous lending standards of late, you know, historically unprecedented deposit requirements and spreads above base for FTB's.

    Ironic really, that the crash the doomers wished for, has backfired in the most spectacular way and frozen so many of them out of the market, perhaps permanently.

    With rent now more expensive than mortgage payments in 75% of the UK, it's landlords who are getting the benefits, and FTB's who have been consigned to a decade or more of paying the landlords mortgage instead of their own.

    Far from benefitting FTB's, this crash has done nothing but hurt them. Whilst pre-2008 buyers are taking advantage of the lowest mortgage rates in history, (rates so low that most have already saved more from discounted interest than they lost in capital values, by the way), those frozen out by mortgage rationing are suffering from rents rising faster than wages, and savings rates so low their deposit fund is eaten away by inflation and their capacity to save destroyed by the higher costs of living most will now endure.

    Generation Rent... A sad legacy of the housing crash.

    • 16 November 2010 01:36 AM
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    "Jonnie"

    Nice try, but no cigar.

    You're still a cock, of the type that gives my profession - of which I'm actually very proud, because it's done well for me and my family - a bad name.

    I genuinely doubt that your foul online personality is, in reality, "well covered with a professional outer manner." You've clearly never heard of cognitive dissonance, otherwise you'd know that there are some things you can never truly hide - or pretend to be, even on an online forum..

    How you come across here is very likely to be how you come across to real people, in the real world. I'm afraid you're just too consistent at it - and I don't think you really understand irony well enough to pull the caricature off effectively.

    Trust me, the only dissonance here will be between your deluded view of yourself, and how you really are - and your Customers will see through it no problem.

    So, as I said, adios "amigo." You ain't going to be around long, because neither your fellow professionals or your poor Customers see how you add value. Except to yourself - but none of us give a flying shit about what's good for you....

    So, get this clear; there's no spittle here, and no blood pressure problems. You can't wind me up like that...

    There's just a calm head here, that can't wait to see you go down.

    But no doubt you go down well - I'm guessing it's how you got the job in the first place; was that head cool as well, or a bit on the warm side? :-)

    R

    • 15 November 2010 23:02 PM
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    Hey Moscips,

    You're note wrong Im a dilecksic brothel owna, I dealt wiv a commershall agent and the bugga sold me a warehouse! Didn't even have the curtessy to point out my mistake

    • 15 November 2010 22:46 PM
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    H,

    Don't you just hate those doom mongers who want an affordable home?

    How selfish are these people for not wanting to buy an over priced house from a vendor who over paid and over stretched themselves with their mortgages.

    A whole generation of selfish sods who refuse too pay over the odds to keep the boomers pension pot full.

    • 15 November 2010 21:59 PM
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    Veronica67 - "You wlil aslo know taht it dseon’t mtater waht oerdr the ltteers are in, it’s the frist and lsat that cnout to mkee text llbgie."

    Really? Why do dyslexics struggle to read then? Perhaps that's just some nonsense you read on the web and instead of thinking about it, you blindly believed it. Tell you what, how about you double-check your clever facts in future? Your witty retorts lose their impact when it turns out you're speaking nonsense.

    • 15 November 2010 21:21 PM
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    Estate agents r assholes

    • 15 November 2010 21:16 PM
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    "first time buyer" is a troll from the housepricecrash website, where this topic has been linked to.

    He's parroting discredited bear memes full of fallacious misinformation without the faintest idea what any of it actually means, let alone that it's factually incorrect.

    Those clowns were already proved wrong when the market didn't tank 50% by x-mas 2008.

    Here we are 3 years on, and prices are hovering 10% or so below peak in most places, and already back to peak in some.

    Given the intense shortage of housing in this country, the only thing holding back the next boom is the still largely dysfunctional mortgage market.

    But with average rents now at all time highs, and housebuilding at record lows, it's only a matter of time before the high yields available draw investment capital back into the market, and then it really is "game on"...

    Agents and vendors, stand fast. Don't let the doom-mongers spook you.

    • 15 November 2010 18:37 PM
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    FTB (I assume that's NOT First Time Buyer, First Time Buyer too, First Time Buyers of the UK - or any of the others who continue to use the phrase as part of their persona DESPITE not being in a position to, or wanting to, buy anything and therefore sounding like numpties before the argument - sorry, debate - even kicks off...):

    "From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k." From where, Sir/Madam/Prefer-not-to-disclose, did these figures emanate? Thin air, perhaps? Because according to your favourite website in the whole entire universe - housepricecrash, the average house price in January 1987 was £86,790 (almost DOUBLE your work of pure unadulterated fiction...) ; and by January 1997 it had actually FALLEN to £76,706.

    Surely you aren't going to disagree with the all-seeing, all-knowing Master at HPC?

    Look - YOU ARE DELUDING YOURSELVES! Continue if you must - just don't think that Agents a) give a shizzle about your rants, or b) you are going to change anything.

    It's just good fun to light your touchpapers then stand back... Who needs Guy Fawkes when you lot can explode on demand?

    • 15 November 2010 18:18 PM
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    Suddenly the run up to Christmas doesn't look likely to be so dull; I'm going to be checking in each day to read the verbal abuse/comments on this site. What will we do when all of us agents are too busy in the new year for this site? Or is that wishful thinking...

    • 15 November 2010 16:26 PM
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    Mkie,

    Taknhs for yuor vbauale ipnut to the dtbeae, psealed you cuold mkae tmie from your bsuy day of cinhekg the wrold wdie web for gmrmaar, you msut be a finastaing man.

    You wlil aslo know taht it dseon’t mtater waht oerdr the ltteers are in, it’s the frist and lsat that cnout to mkee text llbgie.

    Also lovie, stick a full stop on the end of a sentence and double space between paragarphs, makes you look less of prat.

    • 15 November 2010 15:42 PM
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    "Jonnie"

    Your arrogant, vitriolic rants might have a bit more credibility if you could learn to use the word "lose" instead of "loose".
    Probably the most common mistake on the internet, and usually a sure sign of a dimwit

    • 15 November 2010 15:23 PM
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    R, that’s excellent,

    Did you get a little wet patch in the front of your trousers while you wrote that?

    Now in fairness you are right based on my ‘online persona’ I am indeed an un pleasant character to some people but lets look at your comments.

    I agree that lots of people hate the profession, in fact many cant even bring themselves to call it a profession but its fair to say that most (especially who post here) are mis informed as it seems that many hundreds of switched on, sensible people that I deal with every year happily pay a sizable amount for our / my excellent service and don’t share such a view – probably like your clients do?

    Second up – the rising market thing, if you have as you say read all of my posts then you will know that I have been in the business for many years in both good and bad markets, rising and falling markets and I am not one of these chaps that only does well when prices rise – probably like you?

    Then we have the slimeball / sarcasm bit – Now this is a good one, when I have ever dealt with an unreasonable / dishonest / insane / whatever vendor or purchaser they have no idea of my true thoughts of them, I show no sarcasm, have never been described as repellent or snide. I smile politely and deal with them in the manner they would expect and they are none the wiser – probably like you?

    Now thankfully as my repellent personality (your words) is both a work of fiction and any traces are well covered with a professional outer manner it seems unlikely that I will be one of the first to go – probably like you?, although I sense you are not a content man, maybe you’re still loosing out to other agents you have no respect for?

    So, to finish up, the six months thing – I don’t think with your blood pressure you fries are a good idea and as I am picturing you going red with rage with little bits of spit flying out I really would go careful, you might not make six months, Chummy.

    Why not let the steam off gently via some posts on a website with an alter ego – might do you good and make you sound like less of a foul mouthed, angry, uptight fool.

    Jonnie

    • 15 November 2010 15:12 PM
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    "Jonnie"

    What a hubristic little cock you are!!

    I'm an EA myself, and often wonder just why soooo many people hate our entire profession.

    But then, when I read pretty much all of your posts on this site, I then remember....

    There's an element of our profession who are nothing but snide, sarcastic, hubristic little slimeballs, who make a good living in a rising market, but are so personally repellent that they make pretty much everyone on the planet hate every one of us equally.

    Thankfully, that repellent personality means you'll be one of the first to go when this current market gets even tougher, and I won't be sad to see you go.

    Give it six months, and I'll have fries with mine please chummy.

    R

    • 15 November 2010 14:42 PM
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    "Agents and vendors hold your nerve. If you've made it this far you will see the good times again."
    Interestingly, you could also write that with "Buyers ..." instead of "Agents and vendors ...". Also interesting that you still think it in your interests to side with vendors to maintain prices rather than with buyers to get a less dysfunctional market and some volume ...

    • 15 November 2010 14:18 PM
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    I find Jonnies response quite incredible to FTBs post. Ultimately FTB was voicing his opinion on the state of Housing in this country. Jonnie then, clearly unhappy with this, proceeds not to argue the points but essentially descend into some kind of personal attack on FTB, people of an average wage (25k), most of the public works etc. Disgraceful.
    From a EAs point of view I should imagine they would like volume of sales to pick up. Two sales of 1% on 120k is clearly better than one sale on 1% of 180k. The last 6 years have been based on a false economy of mortgage were people could invent their income to get a loan (liar loans). With that prop removed it will take the realignment of house prices, in either real or nominal, for any volume to resurface.

    • 15 November 2010 13:51 PM
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    @rantnrave – then they will be earning the same as you until you decide to grace the property market with your presence and the volumes increase, of course if they are all letting agents as well they might have to live off the growing number of renters like their European counterparts?

    • 15 November 2010 13:18 PM
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    It always amuses me when I see comments from those such as FTB re: prices falling 60%! The reality is that house prices are largely controlled by the Bank Of England whose form of the last 18 months has been to prop house prices up with the lowest interest rates on record and QE. They will not let house prices drop 60%, because the banks would go bust! Instead they will keep on inflating the economy, house prices will remain static until wages, cost of goods etc. are back in kilter with house prices.

    • 15 November 2010 13:15 PM
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    Careful - as transactions continue to plummet, you may be only weeks away from flipping burgers for a living too.

    • 15 November 2010 12:56 PM
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    Excellent response Jonnie!

    • 15 November 2010 12:51 PM
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    As a young-ish person who has never bought a house before, I completely agree with FTB's comments and would say his views towards current prices are representative of many of my peers.

    You can laugh and poke fun at such points of view, but I believe EAs could do with attracting a few more FTBs at the moment. That isn't going to happen if EAs joke about the predicament that a decade of exceptional house price inflation has created for people my age.

    (Note to add - I didn't buy over the last ten years because I was involved in charity work overseas - I also have enough savings to put a 40% deposit down on the average house but refuse to do so while they are such poor value and currently falling).

    • 15 November 2010 12:48 PM
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    Jonnie - your comments regarding FTB were spot on as ever.

    FTB - I'll have a happy meal thanks.

    • 15 November 2010 12:22 PM
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    FTB,

    Ive responded to your posts before but you go all quiet, but never mind ill have another go.

    The first issue is the £18 - £24k thing which might be the root of your trouble, I could make a joke that you work in MacDonald’s but that would be insulting to people that work there as I knew a guy who was a duty manager there and he was on over £40k so that killed that one.

    What I do admire about you is your detailed and (probably) concise overview on what has happened, if you cut out the politics what you say is sound and you have obviously researched the matter in depth although the government theft of our taxes bit raised a smile – I reckon you pay about £6,000 a year in taxes, just enough to keep you looked after by the NHS when you need it and to put a road under the wheel’s of your car and street lights over your head at night but again ill leave that point.

    Then there is your pathological hatred of estate agents – Ive given an answer to you on this before so I wont bother again but by your own admission have never brought a property, ive never brought a helicopter so I don’t see myself as well qualified to comment on helicopter salesmen……………you see my point

    I sense that you are well educated, you do sound a bit like a Student Union rep so I m guessing you are a graduate? – this comes back to the money thing if you are then on your salary you are either a drop out doing a job that doesn’t reflect your qualifications or you are in a ‘vocational role’ maybe teaching, nursing or something? – god I hope you’re not a bloody teacher, the children of this country deserve better but as you say you are going to educate school leavers not to deal with estate agents although there is definitely more skills our children need to leave school with but again ill leave that.

    So, in conclusion you are a very angry, poorly paid, well educated, political individual that knows their economics (in hindsight) and clearly believes they are right on everything and can see into the future………………………………..that leaves the one question id like an answer on?

    WHY THE HELL DIDN’T YOU BUY WHEN PRICES WERE BOOMING, CALL THE MARKET RIGHT AND GET OUT AGAIN JUST BEFORE THE CREDIT CRUNCH?

    From you say you have sat in rented for 10 years and for that you loose any credibility you might think you have.

    Jonnie

    • 15 November 2010 09:46 AM
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    Gordon Brown & his cabinet should be jailed for criminal negligence.

    • 15 November 2010 08:17 AM
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    ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANTLY WRITTEN!!! GORDON BROWN SHOULD BE EMPLOYED BY NO-ONE EVER AGAIN!!!!!!

    • 13 November 2010 10:38 AM
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    Get it through your thick heads. Houses are massively overpriced. Everyone I know earns between £18k-£24k per annum.

    From 1987 to 1997 the Average House Price rose from £40k to £55k.

    A 33.3% rise over ten years.

    From 1997 to 2007, the Average House Price rose from £55k to £190k [Nationwide Building Society figures]

    A staggering 245.5% increase over the same period. [Ten years.]

    The reasons for this are entirely the LAbour Parties Fault.
    1. "In America, the Glass-Steagall Act had protected deposit-taking commercial banks from the risky activities of the investment banks. Congress was effectively obliged to repeal the Act in 1999 because New York was losing its business to London, which had no such restrictions and the "light touch" regulation encouraged by Gordon Brown. Had Britain [Brown] enacted similar legislation to Glass-Steagall, the US Act would not have been repealed, the City would have made less money but the banking collapse in both America and Britain would have been avoided"
    2. Complete failure to build social housing.
    3.In his 1997 budget, Brown abolished dividend tax credits on pension funds. Companies saw the writing on the wall and immediately ended their final salary pension schemes to new employees shortly after the 'Brown raid'.* The value of pension funds have since lost around £5bn per year since the 1997 tax relief cuts. Pension funds holding the cash that almost everyone in the country had planned to use for our retirement have lost around £100 billion over 12 years. [1997-2007]
    The advice Brown was given by this Treasury Paper, in 1997 was as follows:


    'The changes in incentives are likely to lead to substantial changes in portfolios. Pension funds will find equity relatively less attractive, and will prefer other assets – particularly interest bearing securities and foreign equity – and may also be prompted to consider more direct property investment.'
    Those funds were then channelled into fuelling an unsustainable property bubble, {BTL portfolios,} which developed because of Labours complete lack of regulation of the Banks.This was followed by rising house prices, ever increasing toxic mortgage debt, and this was followed by the bank bailouts.

    Roughly 60% of houses historically acquired by First Time Buyers, were then acquired by the Buy To Let brigade.


    This is just one example of Gordon Browns incompetent decision making which helped to create the cornerstone of the debt bubble.
    4.Brown had every opportunity to face the problem. Instead in 2003 Brown switched the housing inflation figures from RPI to CPI, hiding the debt. Same thing he did with PFI.

    THESE are the reasons house prices rose to astronomical unsustainable levels.
    Without the bank bailouts, house prices would have crashed by 60% plus.

    So the only reason they have not crashed is because of Government theft of our taxes and QE. This bubble will be deflated. Look at Japan. 80% housing crash. Look at 50% reductions in greece. Look at the USA.
    Look at property everywhere else in the world. Except the UK.
    I look forward to buying my own first property for 60% off peak prices.
    Say what you like Jonnie. Your arguments are worthless.......

    • 13 November 2010 08:56 AM
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    First Time Buyer - ive seen your post on my phone but I'll leave you until Monday and do a response then

    Jonnie

    • 13 November 2010 00:22 AM
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    Get Profile First Time Buyers are gone.....Gone far far away.

    The last 13 years of boom time has done no favours to estate agents in the long term.

    Only 7-8% of UK homeowners would be facing neg equity WHEN a 50% plus crash occurs.
    Over 50% of UK homeowners own outright.
    By 2015, there will substantially more voters priced out of housing than those facing neg equity after the average house prices is reduced by 50%.
    Your methods of determining accountablity, are a joke.
    You assumption is that even though for years, 2-3X salary was the acceptable norm, it should now remain at 2-3x salary not of an individual, but a couple?!
    LOL LOL.....Some of You REALLY are amusing.

    Ive been renting for years. FTB'ers will continue to do so, whilst educating schooleavers and students enmasses, in their tens of thousands, as to the theft that is occuring. The theft of their taxes, and the devaluation of the pound in their pocket, via QE, to pay for this toxic mortgae debt. In effect, forced to pay for others houses, whilst keeping house prices massively overinflated, ensuring they can never afford their own house.

    The crash will come.

    Then we will ALL, look at other ways to buy direct from owners, and cut out the EA altogether.........

    Go back to school. Get some qualifications. Get out of your Ratbag, [aherm] industry....

    • 12 November 2010 20:30 PM
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    First Time Buyers are gone.....Gone far far away.

    The last 13 years of boom time has done no favours to estate agents in the long term.

    Only 7-8% of UK homeowners would be facing neg equity WHEN a 50% plus crash occurs.
    Over 50% of UK homeowners own outright.
    By 2015, there will substantially more voters priced out of housing than those facing neg equity after the average house prices is reduced by 50%.
    Your methods of determining accountablity, are a joke.
    You assumption is that even though for years, 2-3X salary was the acceptable norm, it should now remain at 2-3x salary not of an individual, but a couple?!
    LOL LOL.....Some of You REALLY are amusing.

    Ive been renting for years. FTB'ers will continue to do so, whilst educating schooleavers and students enmasses, in their tens of thousands, as to the theft that is occuring. The theft of their taxes, and the devaluation of the pound in their pocket, via QE, to pay for this toxic mortgae debt. In effect, forced to pay for others houses, whilst keeping house prices massively overinflated, ensuring they can never afford their own house.

    The crash will come.

    Then we will ALL, look at other ways to buy direct from owners, and cut out the EA altogether.........

    Go back to school. Get some qualifications. Get out of your Ratbag, [aherm] industry....

    • 12 November 2010 20:28 PM
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    Join the.... Property Consultants Society great association beats the NAEA OR RICS.

    • 12 November 2010 19:09 PM
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    What total hype this is, all I see is REDUCTIONS

    • 12 November 2010 18:00 PM
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    David

    You'd be surprised at the number of cash buyers we have at the moment.

    • 12 November 2010 17:46 PM
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    David,

    You new here?

    Its just there are guys like you that pop up every now and then that get a bit of a savaging………………………..

    If you know the way these things go then fair enough you’ll be expecting it but if you are a new reader it might all come as a bit of a surprise

    Jonnie

    • 12 November 2010 17:32 PM
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    flats are 70% overpriced and houses potentially 50%

    are people so stupid they cannot see that house prices are about money supply....and when its restricted prices from this lunatic level will come down

    • 12 November 2010 17:14 PM
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    Soft Southerner?? I'm a Northerner that's slipped down. When I first moved here I thought our window was full of mis-prints the prices were so high!
    I'll join you in a Stella but you might enjoy a Boddy's more.

    • 12 November 2010 16:35 PM
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    fair point, mines a Stella (soft southerner)

    • 12 November 2010 16:28 PM
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    Jonnie

    Should add, as a SW agent myself, we have been achieving over early 2007 prices for most of this year but that's because it's a beautiful region with wonderful EAs :)
    However if I find that Hatched SW invading my patch I shall chase him away with a big pokey stick!

    • 12 November 2010 16:22 PM
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    Allowing for the male ego and how they like to feel they have bagged a bargain, the Bristol one sounds about right as a marketing price. Anyway, you'd have to be nuts to want to live in Bristol and I'm sure Hatched gets his fair share of nutters! :)
    There always seems to be a gap between marketing price and achievable price in the South.

    • 12 November 2010 16:18 PM
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    Simon: An extremely interesting post there, Sir.

    Basically, your post is that of an experienced Agent mocking the less experienced Agents and complaining of their lack of knowledge; their ability to only list by overegging prices, and their corporate standing. Fine. Nothing entirely wrong about that - but park the idea where it is for a minute, please.

    Now then, you reminisce back to 1989, a time of another 'interesting' market: a time when YOU were that just-out-of-nappies, inexperienced corporate Agent; one who by self-admission would put a property on the market at thousands more than the true worth just to list it, and worry about the reduction at a later date. MIGHT even try fifteen. Twenty - we'll see. But NEVER as much as £30k.

    NOW, by my reckoning, sticking an extra ten large on the price back in '89 is pretty much like whacking £25k on the asking today. Thirty would have been var nigh like sticking it up by an extra HUNDRED GRAND...

    Things don't change much in a quarter of a century of Agency, do they...?

    Perhaps before having a go at the next generation, who will no doubt learn their trade the hard way, one should not forget how past and present learned theirs... ;0)

    • 12 November 2010 16:07 PM
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    Anna – you’re right, I get the SW thing now – ive had a quick look at what they’ve got in that small South West town, Plymouth and its given me a flat in Essex – genius, ive also had a quick look at the one they have in Whitethorn Vale, Bristol and stone me all the other semis were selling early 2007 at under £230k and this one is up for ¼ Million – see above for my views on putting your website on here.

    • 12 November 2010 16:06 PM
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    Hatched

    Put my website on here you are joking – haven’t you seen the abuse I get on here? I’d have to go into hiding!

    Plus I thought I had correctly outlined your motivation for publishing your web address and it isn’t one I share as im not looking to promote my business / whatever your web site is

    I take it that apart from a bit of ill show you mine and all that you are avoiding the issue of pricing that was the point of the post and are still letting em rip?

    Jonnie

    • 12 November 2010 15:56 PM
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    Oh Jonnie

    Poor geography I think. Hatched clearly posts as Hatched SW and I believe the south west does not include Kent or NW London. Come on Jonnie, let's have your website!

    • 12 November 2010 15:55 PM
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    now ive read all this same old same old I am losing interest

    • 12 November 2010 15:53 PM
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    As with the idea that people end up looking like their dogs, having looked at the Property Match website I think websites must resemble their owners minds.

    It’s a dark mysterious thing and my god it’s a muddled confusing place with no logic and a lack of content and substance that beggars belief, it also appears to have been created by a teenager doing an IT project that has no real grip on reality…………………………….you get my point.

    So there we are – although the chances of me coming to resemble and small black poodle cross that gets its kicks from chasing squirrels are slim so i might be mistaken

    Jonnie

    • 12 November 2010 15:41 PM
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    Wow Jonnie, that's some nice Friday afternoon vitriol you've got going on. Almost as attractive as the smell in my office ;)

    Glad you like the website, I'd be interested in seeing yours too but I don't suppose you'd care to give me the web address as that may put us on a similar footing?

    • 12 November 2010 15:41 PM
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    Fabulous reply Jonnie, i do worry though that you have too much time on your hands! havin gsaid that most of my day today has been spent chatting with vendors asking why they want to wait to see what happens in the new year rather than sell or reduce now, same every year mind. Yes Simon you are right about the corporates over valuing but in fairness I find any company which has an employed 'valuer' rather than a partner or director valuing does the same as they have targets etc, the worse culprits are those companies who have to justify their sky high fees by saying that they will get a better price for the property, the public are a bit too gullible and see pound signs rather than common sense. Its 3.30 on a friday, I have two staff members in to answer a phone which has rung once in the last hour, time to b*gger off down t'pub

    • 12 November 2010 15:33 PM
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    One again Mr Hendry has got it wrong!

    Prices are determined by supply and demand rather than purchasing power.

    If one is not forced to sell one simply stays put. The only bargains to be had are from those forced to sell because of circumstance.

    • 12 November 2010 14:50 PM
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    Your right, the agents local to me most of whom are corporates being run by babies in nappies, unlike myself who started out in 1989 are coming up with prices out of the air. Now i know they have area managers breathing down their necks, but when i was employed i didnt give a hoot about my area manager i wanted houses on the market to sell if an owner wanted £10k more i would give it a shot £30k more i would walk. But i think sometimes it is the agent who is just over valuing when the owners will take less and a realistic price, if i can do it why cant they.

    • 12 November 2010 13:57 PM
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    Hatched –

    I used to work with a bloke that farted a lot and then moaned about the stench in the office in an effort to cover his own disgusting habit, ill come back to why ive mentioned this in a bit

    Just read your comment and I though well here’s a chap / lady that knows the value of getting the price right, good for them………….that got me looking at your web site (very nice it is too) which im sure you like as you post under you company name, why not add a hit to the site.

    Its after this point I realise you are not all I hoped – ill leave aside the fact that your listings are a bit thin on the ground and simply searching for anything in entire cities / counties didn’t bring much up but I did fall over a couple of your properties and this is where you begin to look, erm,…….trying not to be rude / horrible……….no cant help it you look like an idiot.

    Have a look at your Brancaster Drive listing in NW London looks like a Barratt box so fair to presume it’s a standard design in the road – last semi sold (according to Nethouseprices.com) for £270,000 in Dec 09……………………can anyone guess what the price of Htched one is?.................£345,000, yup, £345,000

    Lets look at Rose Street in Kent – seems to be a road of Victorian terraces / semis – pretty similar, 4 have sold this year for £155,000 - £160,000 – yours is on at £180,000!!??

    The science behind this is basic but I expect that if a thorough review of your listings was carried out it wont get much better.

    So, don’t be amazed and don’t bother asking when people will learn – you are doing the equivalent of farting in a room then asking why people do such horrid things, and my god you stink enough to set off my gag reflex.

    Jonnie

    • 12 November 2010 13:10 PM
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    Give me strength, next they'll be saying it got colder in October / November.

    The NAEA deserve a bullet for putting out negative comment like this, the media will churn and further fuel the cycle. A very stange way for an official body to support its member agents.

    Sure, its a low volume market but the right house priced correctly will find the right buyer - eventually.

    Agents and vendors hold your nerve. If you've made it this far you will see the good times again.

    I am sure all agents will have had good news stories this year. 2010 has felt slower than 2009 but I bet it has been more proftable for most agents.

    In the prime market, we have seen a number of sales take place this year at higher than expected rates, sometimes significantly through best & final offers.

    If a serious buyer finds their ideal home and has the cash, they dont necessarily go for the throat.

    How about some positive comment & confidence?

    • 12 November 2010 12:27 PM
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    As Baldrick once said: "DOOM! DOOOM! DOOOOM! DOOOOOM!". That said though, prices will slowly correct downwards over the next couple of years by 3%-5%. Inflation (that's RPI not the other crap) is 4-5% which gives a real world annual price drop of about 10%. 2 to 3 years of that is a REAL WORLD drop in property prices of about 25%. No big crash, no horrible pain. It happened in the 70s, again in the 80s and even in the 90s.

    • 12 November 2010 11:02 AM
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    I beg your pardon. I'm an average RICS. I am over 60. I know nothing but I know Gaga. I heard her on the radio.
    I also know values. Did in 1973 also. And ever since young fella melad. Hrumph.

    • 12 November 2010 10:50 AM
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    "NAEA losing interest, says Estate Agents"

    bit more apt

    • 12 November 2010 10:22 AM
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    Well said Neil K. I've been banging on about this for ages. Please could the NAEA grow a pair. Screw RICS, wtf do they know about prices & volume? Is their average member's age still over 60?

    • 12 November 2010 10:04 AM
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    Hatched....I'll have you know that I calue on the button!
    And in all fairness if we didn't go round to value the properties then you wouldn't have a business that is unless you online guys no longer ask the vendor to get 3 valuations to establish yur market price!

    • 12 November 2010 09:58 AM
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    Lets take your example of one couple.
    £140k joint income,
    £25k in the bank,

    Shocked to be told to go and save another £25k to buy a £400k property (they only wanted x2.5 their joint salary).

    Joint salary: 140 x 2.5 = 350k purchasing power.
    Therefore deposit required should be 400-350 = 50k
    But actual Min safe deposit should be 25% of 400k = 100k
    Conclusion: The lender is being excessively kind by only asking for a £50k deposit when it should be 100k.

    • 12 November 2010 09:51 AM
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    It amazes me that vendors and agents can still be greedy and overprice even when the market is so poor and buyers are so sparse. When will they learn?

    • 12 November 2010 09:50 AM
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    Ah ha, the NAEA monthly survey. Never one to grab the headlines, I see it's been published later in the month than the RICS monthly survey and its brevity will ensure journalists will continue to rely on the more extensive RICS data, graphs and local commentary. It's incredible that the NAEA continues to lag behind in reporting its own profession.

    • 12 November 2010 09:47 AM
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    So here we have a contracting housing market in the run up to Christmas.

    In uncertain economic times like this the market always slows down early in the run up to Christmas.


    In 2006 we were selling as many houses Christmas week as we were in the June, but in the early 90's the market had shot it's bolt by mid September, just as now.

    It is doing what it always does in a recession (are we allowed to use that word?), except the starting point is one at a much lower level of sales, and much more estate agents scrapping for the work.

    Very thin times indeed.

    • 12 November 2010 09:41 AM
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    I don't think it's just finance restrictions, even those buyers in a position to proceed are smelling blood and are prepared to wait a bit longer till vendors capitulate on price. But restrictions are part of the issue for sure, an example one couple £140k joint income, £25k in the bank, shocked to be told to go and save another £25k to buy a £400k property they could afford even if interest rates went sky high (they only want x2.5 joint salary). Where's the sense in that? Having said that, if the finance isn't there anyone who really wants to sell has to get real, fast, about price.

    • 12 November 2010 09:35 AM
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    Sorry, house prices depend upon a buyer's ability to buy, not a sellers dreamt-up asking price. Prices will have to correct to the buyer's levels of wealth (or lack of it)!

    • 12 November 2010 09:31 AM
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