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Written by rosalind renshaw

He has suggested that estate agents who over-value homes should have to buy them themselves if they fail to sell.

By his own admission, the suggestion did not go down terribly well with agents, and several hundred readers’ posts later, he has had a rethink.

Now, Peter Hendry has donned his flak jacket and hard hat to write today’s blog, explaining his latest idea: that agents should learn to value properties in the same way that surveyors do.

It is time, he says, for agents to face the music and take responsibility for what is happening in the housing market.

To read the blog, eyes right.

Comments

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    Adam, but how would you define excessively?

    What would happen if a totally unique property came up in an area where nothing had sold for 12 months and not one agent/surveyor could reliably agree on a price? At the moment, they take a 'guesstimate' on the price and try the market, probably having verbally agreed the marketing strategy to include a reduction in 4 weeks if not sold.

    The vendor then chages their minds, and insists on it being marketed at the original price? And for other vendors, if they reject their Agents advice to reduce?

    Some (unscrupulous) vendors would refuse to reduce, knowing that the agent would have to purchase it after three months.

    I think when this 'idea' was first broached, someone added up the value of his stock, and his bank manger refused to extend his overdraft by something like £18million.

    • 16 March 2011 13:33 PM
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    Chartered Surveyors tend to value for mortgage and security purposes. Estate agents value according to their knowledge of the sales market in their local area. They are aware of demand and the likely price a house will achieve. Unfortunately human nature being what it is - home owners expect the highest possible price and will often instruct the agent who provides the highest valuation. A no win situation for an honest genuine local Estate Agent. Maybe more regulation and come back is required regarding Estate Agents valuations - and yes make the agent buy the house if they excessively over value the property.

    • 15 March 2011 14:53 PM
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    Hendry has made an appearance and is trying to justify himeself.
    The hole is getting deeper and deeper and one suspects he is trying to reach Australia

    Go an see his blog comments for more yap from the man himself

    • 14 March 2011 17:49 PM
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    When corporates are receiving e-mails from head office instructing the valuers to 'over value' on purpose and paying bonuses for how many they 'list' per month is there any wonder this happens. Mary Portas missed a huge opportunity to highlight this scandolous behaviour on her rubbish documentary the other week!!

    • 12 March 2011 14:28 PM
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    I agree with Chance. The stupid programme on zoopla is too simplistic. If only it was so simple. It basically averages out everything. I wouldn't waste my time of zoopla (they say it is the second best property website).

    • 12 March 2011 10:45 AM
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    @Pudenda Cullion-Gonad

    Thats Nuts!

    • 11 March 2011 17:56 PM
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    Chance

    that is bonkers

    I have two houses on the same street that are identical

    Zoopla values one at 321K and the other at £362 k - I have sold the one at 321 for £360

    Go figure

    I works on wrong information and unreliable calculations/formulas

    • 11 March 2011 16:58 PM
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    This is the future of house valuation www.zoopla.co.uk house values. We will soon have to bow down to percentages and fluctuations etc and this site and others will be used as the Parkers guide for property.

    • 11 March 2011 16:34 PM
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    I don't know but at International Seismological Centre we are trying to monitor the big Earthquake in Japan.

    All we are getting is some excessive and confusing jigging activity centred on Nottingham! Please stop!

    • 11 March 2011 15:31 PM
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    And that't just the local agents that smell like animals :-----)

    • 11 March 2011 15:29 PM
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    Oh my good Gods what have I started?

    • 11 March 2011 15:15 PM
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    Add long hair to mud, animal faeces, rain and wind and you're getting the picture.

    I'm lovin it!

    • 11 March 2011 15:13 PM
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    Not some parts of the country i've seen hun. I' guessing you are picturing rosy cheeked milkmaids, and shepherdesses with flouncy dresses and the curly hair?

    Add long hair to mud, animal faeces, rain and wind and you're getting the picture.

    Not that I spend a lot of time round the animals. They smell. And step on your feet, not matter how pretty your shoes are!

    • 11 March 2011 14:46 PM
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    Aren't they all hot in the country????

    • 11 March 2011 14:42 PM
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    My guess is that if he had been 50 years younger they would have treated Prattling Pete with Ritalin instead of the Electro shock treatment that has obviously failed to cure his attention seeking.

    He has pulled a fast one with Ros, either she didn't realise Pete Hendry was the Propertymatch/ Realisy reality bloke or she has published his blog to spice up a dull Friday.

    Either way if anyone reads that blog in isolation from the caveat or knowledge that it is total rubbish, I can easily see the press getting hold of it to perperuate the myth that we are all up to no good.

    Personally I hope someone has the fortitude and financial clout to bankrupt him or at least have him having sleepless nights worrying about litigation.

    • 11 March 2011 14:21 PM
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    Sorry George! It didn't have your name, I did wonder if it was you, with the comment about my mother!

    'Treat em mean' can backfire, when the guy thinks you are trying to keep him keen, when you are really trying to get him to stay the heck away from you!

    Tell me, do you think Old Petey is going to be a bit hacked off that no-one is really paying attention to him?

    • 11 March 2011 13:50 PM
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    Picks me up one minute, drops me the next. Treat em mean keep em keen it that your game?

    You thought I was asking you to control property prices by not having children?

    • 11 March 2011 13:37 PM
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    ooookay J Clarksrom, bit off topic, but thanks anyway! How did you come to the 'hot' conclusion btw? The 'mean streak' from the previous (anonymous) poster I can understand. And agree with to be honest!

    Never mind, random tangent there.

    Thanks Hampshire, just wish I was a bit closer to you, then I'd have a chance to put my money where my mouth is, but a confidence-building sentiment nevertheless. Now I can get back to explaining tectonic plates to one of the admins.....

    • 11 March 2011 13:23 PM
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    She soounds pretty hot - I wish I looked younger than I am :-)

    • 11 March 2011 13:14 PM
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    Thanks for the reply Country Lass, I appreciate it. You sound pretty level-headed. I'd instruct you.

    • 11 March 2011 12:47 PM
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    Sorry, who was the last post from?

    • 11 March 2011 12:41 PM
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    Given your advancing years Lass you had better listen to your Mum.

    I have to say I am liking this mean streak!

    Ros Renshaw it a bit of a Minx too, she puts up HPC bait and now Prattling Pete, sits there and watches as the fur flies.

    • 11 March 2011 12:37 PM
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    I've never tried to pass myself of as perfect, or even fantastically intelligent for that matter. I am a firm believer that pride goes before a fall, and the higher you set yourself the more time people have to laugh at you as you fall past them!

    I know that my age works against me to some degree, as people usually think I'm younger than I am (good for the future, not good at the moment!) and I don't have the experience that many of the people on here do. It's one of the reasons I like this site, not only do you find out thingd, but you can share ideas and thoughts with people, guage what might help and come up with new ways of doing things. And you get to rip people to shreds, which is ALWAYS fun!

    • 11 March 2011 12:29 PM
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    Most surveyors I know are very gloomy souls, with one eye on their PI claims history, and the other on their shoe laces

    Must be very depressing being dull and grey and actually knowing you are

    If a buyer is prepared to pay the price and has a significant deposit the value should be rubber stamped - a surveyor is there to assess the house and it's structural well being - they should leave the valuations to the buyers

    • 11 March 2011 12:22 PM
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    In my book Mr Hendry is a very fine man.

    The post cards he places in my widows is a most innovative service. Do not being too hard on him, he is buying lots of tissues.

    • 11 March 2011 12:17 PM
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    @countrylass
    I think the point I am trying to make, is that there are very high and mighty EA's on this board who would have you believe they are perfect and all the other agents are idiots. (I hope I can exclude you given your last post!) We all get it wrong sometimes, we all occasionally 'buy' some stock, even if it is with a well laid out plan to reduce in the future.
    Harping on about agents overvaluing is a waste of everyone's time. It has always happened and will always happen, because people, including the customers are greedy. (It also happens in the US where agents are licensed, so lets not go down that route either in this context.

    • 11 March 2011 12:17 PM
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    Hampshire - That particular one was instructed by my predeccessor, and I nearly chocked when I saw the price. I've spent nearly a year chipping away at the price, redesigning details and trying to get her to trust me enough to listen to the advice she in bloomin' paying me for, and in the end I got bored.

    Since I don't tie people in, I don't have the luxury of 'list high, lock in and batter til they cave in'

    • 11 March 2011 12:15 PM
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    Neil, I take 'over-valued' as a price where there is no interest or enquiries, and if we do every get viewings they almost wet themselves with laughter and ask what we were on when we valued it.

    Not every property sells straightaway, some take a bit more work.

    I have walked away from properties if I feel the vendor wants too much, and even if I agree to a price slightly higher than I suggest, I'll lay out a marketing strategy, that if it hasn't sold within x we reduce to y, or if there are no viewings within a we reduce to b.

    Trust me, no-one who knows me would think I'm perfect!

    • 11 March 2011 12:12 PM
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    @Country Lass

    Why didn't you give her a reasonable valuation in the first place? Is your general tactic to win the instruction and then manage the price downwards?

    • 11 March 2011 12:09 PM
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    Ray Evans

    The voice of reason at last.

    • 11 March 2011 12:08 PM
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    @countrylass
    I assume you are therefore perfect and never get it even slightly wrong at valuation, or when the vendor says you can put it on, but at my price, you always walk away?
    If this is the case I admire you, but having spoken with many agents over the years, including the ones who say you never should have more than x number of the properties on your books at one time, I would say you are either still bending the truth a little, or will be out of business with in twelve months.

    • 11 March 2011 12:07 PM
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    In my opinion.............

    The 'asking price' is, in the end, decided by the seller, whether or not it is based on advice.

    The is no such thing as a final 'right' price, that is decided between the seller and the buyer. An agent does not 'value' he/she carries out an 'appraisal' of the property and gives an opinion as to an asking price based on experience and the 'bracket' into which the property falls, remembering that it the agents job to obtain the highest realistic price.

    If the buyer needs to borrow money the lenders surveyor 'values' the asset being offered to the lender in return.

    It is all a matter of common sense?

    • 11 March 2011 12:04 PM
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    @ Neil, I do have a few over-priced properties I will admit that. None of them are through intentional over-valuing however. I've got one we sold last year, but the buyer pulled out at the last minute. The property is currently on for £12k less than it was sold for previously, and we have today had an offer of £10k less than that.

    I have also recently had a property we disinstructed as she would not readjust her price to a more reasonable level, and we were sick of spending money flogging a dead, very expensive, horse.

    We try to appraise at a good price, fair for the buyers and acceptable for the vendor.

    • 11 March 2011 11:55 AM
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    It is really simple. If people want to sell, they will sell. If they are not serious about selling, they will stay on the market for months and even years at the wrong price. This is called people being people.
    Of course we would all have fantastic businesses if it were not for the bloody customers being unreasonable!!!
    Come on all you high handed EA's on this post, take a look at yourselves and your stocks, and hand on heart tell me you have no over priced property on your list. If you say you do not, you are either lying (but only to yourself) or a fool!

    • 11 March 2011 11:47 AM
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    The solution proposed is, of course, nonsensical.

    But the issue - of overvaluation to gain instructions - is very real and certainly has a distorting effect on the market.

    As pointed out the big corporates are the worst, often clueless.

    Concrete example: I valued a house recently at £485k. (Down over £100k on what we failed to sell it at in 2007-8, more than we had advised even the but the seller is greedy, also had refused to drop as things turned nasty).

    Tenants had moved out and she now wanted to sell 'quickly' - not easy in this market.

    It's a small estate of larger, mainly extended 4&5 bed 80s detached, well situated for roads and trains and on the edge of fields. This was one of the small 4-bed, non-extended ones. Only three house sales (two by us) in the last 5 years, two around £600k in 2006 and 2010. These were 5-bed to start with, and then extended, so substantially bigger (the 2010 one had a 1-bed granny flat!)

    Big chain came in, told her the could get £595k for it, based on recent local sales. Guess who she went with?

    I'm at a loss to know whether this valuation was ignorance, or sheer mendacity, but it's plainly not in the interests of the seller, who has no chance of making that price (prospective buyers on my books looking at that price bracket would just laugh out loud rather than view), and while it no doubt helped make corporate instruction targets, it also makes the rival firm look silly as well. It dropped to £575k after a month, but I doubt that will make a blind bit of difference.

    I can think of several other silly valuations lately to gain instructions, though one of well over £100k - more than 15% of the valuation - is the most obvious current example.

    Beyond the damage to the interests of the seller and the reputation of the firm, there is harm caused to the local market. When writ large in a falling market, silly prices add to the overall blocking effect. In a rising market though stupid valuations can have even more pernicious effects, feeding unsustainable bubbles and leading if not always to a crash, then certainly to the current three-way mexican standoff between buyers' common sense, sellers greed, and banks' caution. (With us caught in the middle).

    I've no idea how we fix this. Hendry's solution is not intended to be real, I'm sure, merely provocative. In that he has certainly succeeded.

    • 11 March 2011 11:38 AM
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    PeeBee,

    You know i didn’t bother with the forty year old FTB thing, well, im gonna sit this one out as well - sorry but ill leave it your capable's

    Jonnie

    • 11 March 2011 11:33 AM
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    Orchestra's? conductors? Music?

    Really - you should write a blog only when sober.

    • 11 March 2011 11:29 AM
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    Why does EAT continue to post drivel from nobodies???

    His site is worse than Brightmove (anybody remember Mr Osbourne?? I think I was fonder of him), he holds absolutely no credility in the industry and his ideas are absolute non-sense.

    Your site, as someone has posted out is also illegal. Tesco were almost taken to court for a lot of money for doing the same thing. I suggest that everybody checks their properties are not being stolen and advertised on a site which attacks estate agents. If my properties are on their and not removed, I am taking you to court.

    Why keep posting articles on him EAT?? Talk about scraping the barrel, its a joke. You're only damaging your own reputation.


    .

    • 11 March 2011 11:14 AM
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    Hey, if you want, I'll give you his e-mail address! Just so you can be sure it gets to him.

    Roll on 75%!

    • 11 March 2011 11:09 AM
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    Hi everyone. I will not cut and paste my LENGTHY (surely you did not expect anything else...) response to Mr Hendry - but if you want to see him squirm, drop in to the blog page that Ros/Nat have kindly set up for him.

    I'd like to know if you think I'm onto something...

    CL - I haven't given up on behalf of Sibley's...! You know all to well that negotiation starts with a NO! In this case, Mr Hendry hasn't even commenced negotiations.

    Should I, do you think, tender the offer through his website? I know that it is not bound by the Estate Agents Act to forward offers to the vendor - but surely he would LOVE IT if he could then shout from the rooftops that the site had, actually, RECEIVED A GENUINE OFFER for a property!!

    He could list it under 'Breaking News'... cos he CERTAINLY doesn't have a worthy page for success stories!! ;0)

    PS - well done on the 73.1%, by the way. Just what I expected to hear - and hope you can top 75% THIS year!! ;0D

    • 11 March 2011 11:06 AM
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    You see what happens? Here they come!

    Blah Blah Blah

    Pete Hendry For King!

    Rotten.com already has a pictures video of John Erkoff's Maths Debate death, we surely don't need another!

    • 11 March 2011 11:03 AM
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    @Paul

    Good post, I agree entirely.

    Anyway, it is becomming clear that there is very little demand at current inflated asking prices. Mortgage lending fell 29% in January compared to December, and 12% comparted to January last year. Just 28,500. How low do we need to go before EA's can see it?

    • 11 March 2011 10:39 AM
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    Agree corporates are the worst Paul....but not sure it is to keep them at the top of the list on RM?

    Main reason for the corporates over valuing is simply the pressure each branch is under to list property and the easiest way to list is often to tell the vendor a high price, who in their right mind would not want an extra 5% or 10% if they were suckered into thinking it could happen!

    Larger indeps can be as bad and some of the very smallest not much better!

    Oddly and thank the lord......Vendors on the whole are actually quite realstic, a decent agent will list at the right price and still get the business based on reputation and previous success. The properties a decent agent has lost on a high value, will come back to them at the right price , without even touting for it 9 times out of 10! You just let your "Sold" signs do the talking!

    my opinion!

    • 11 March 2011 10:38 AM
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    @ do not feed the troll

    Yes but only if he has a web cam.

    • 11 March 2011 10:20 AM
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    This is down to agents saying no to overpriced instructions and valuing as has been stated the same way surveyors do it.

    I have for years been straight with vendors and said its all very well marketing at a higher than realistic price and getting a buyer but the lender or valuer in the case of a cash buyer will be realistic. The buyer then comes back for a reduction which in many cases can not be agreed. This then gives an abortive sale and back to square one and heyho spend the marketing money all over again and drive profits down and hope to find another idiot buyer and the whole process starts over again and again and again. The property comes off the market and then there is no chance of getting the money back.

    Agents are in many cases very stupid as has been noted by Hampshire EA and I find his or her comments spot on. I deal with them on a day by day basis and so many of you out there are clueless.

    The corporate agents are the worst for this as they get it in the neck if they do not get the instructions to keep them at the top of the list on Rightmove. How sad is that? Good vendors get ripped off by brainless nerds who do not give a stuff about them but are only interested in beating the opposition into first place on listings numbers and damn the consequences.

    • 11 March 2011 10:19 AM
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    Yep there I am......website looks great.......really clear.....not to fussy.......slick in fact......surprised he has not challenged RM or Zoopla yet with that one......NOT!

    • 11 March 2011 10:07 AM
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    DNFTT - Do you want the honest answer to that question?

    • 11 March 2011 10:03 AM
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    He will be sat in front of his PC pleasuring himself stupid at all these replies. Please stop!

    Do you want his death on your hands? and his death all over his keyboard, monitor and hands

    • 11 March 2011 09:57 AM
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    Wardy,
    not .com, but .co.uk.

    He obviously can not afford the .com version!!!

    • 11 March 2011 09:55 AM
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    I just want to pin him down on if he is willing to sell his house to Sibley for £140k. Poor PeeBee worked so hard on that deal, and then the vendor wouldn't give him an answer.

    So sad.

    • 11 March 2011 09:50 AM
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    Cheers Wardy! I will let you know......

    • 11 March 2011 09:50 AM
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    Ric,

    property-match.com

    bet ya hes got yours as well

    • 11 March 2011 09:48 AM
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    .

    • 11 March 2011 09:48 AM
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    .

    • 11 March 2011 09:47 AM
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    PLEASE DO NOT POST COMMENT ON THIS STORY.

    • 11 March 2011 09:47 AM
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    Just literally come off the phone from a surveyor asking for comps as he has no idea what to put on a remortgage valuation! Classic....seriously the timing of that call was just brilliant! I asked him what he would do if I could not help "phone another agent" and then "it is a bit of finger in the wind on this one" the reply!

    Anyway....... other than remortgages, 90% of the time a surveyor is valuing a property BECAUSE the agent GOT IT RIGHT!! in terms of found a buyer willing to pay the price the vendor was willing to accept!

    What is this guys website out of interest, keen to look at it now......?

    • 11 March 2011 09:46 AM
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    Shouldn't the title of this article be

    'Time for Hendry to face the music over out dated scraping website'

    • 11 March 2011 09:46 AM
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    Surveyors valuing property! Is this a joke. If it wasn't for agents they wouldn't have a clue.

    • 11 March 2011 09:46 AM
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    An old surveyor was seated next to a 10-year-old girl on an airplane. Being bored, he turned to the girl and said, "Let's talk. I've heard that flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger."

    The girl, who was reading a book, closed it slowly and said to the guy, "What would you like to talk about?"

    Oh, I don't know," said the guy. "How about valuing property?"

    "OK," she said. "That could be an interesting topic. But let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow and a deer all eat the same stuff... grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, and a horse produces clumps of dried grass. Why do you suppose that is?"

    The guy thought about it and said, "Hmmm, I have no idea."

    To which the girl replied, "Do you really feel qualified to discuss valuing property when you don't know shit?"

    • 11 March 2011 09:40 AM
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    Why is this clown getting more 'air time'?
    Lets look at Mr Hendry for a moment.
    This is a bloke who despises agents. Mostly because he tries to run a (rubbish) private sellers website but also because he has found that he simply can’t compete with agents. To top it all it has emerged that his illegal website is nothing more than a scraper site. Mr Hendry is using our stock for his own means. Proberly just to rake some money in from google adds that are listed with our stock. The guy that hates agents is happy to ponce of us for his own ends.
    Mr Hendry, you optimise everything that is wrong with our industry, you are nothing more than a leach.
    Why are you moaning about overvalued stock when the very same stock on your website is out of date and not listed at the correct price? Much of my stock that you are listing without my consent has already sold, you are still showing them as for sale.

    • 11 March 2011 09:37 AM
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    What a load of tosh! Its a free market, agents and vendors can ask what ever price they like for home, any agent who promises a figure he can't get will lose the instruction which is adequate punishment, Hendry should go back to the snooker.

    • 11 March 2011 09:34 AM
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    Hampshire EA. I feel you have just shot yourself in the foot.
    'EA's are not professionals' and then you put 'a price 10% lower than we wished'!!!! Take a look at yourself.......

    It will take another couple of years before the market gets back to normal (and I am not talking about the last 10 years), but a situation where people do not expect their houses to go up by 10-20% a year, but that they are buying a home and long term place to live.

    EA's reflect the market, they try to direct it, but we are the orchestra not the the conductors!

    • 11 March 2011 09:30 AM
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    Steve - Hit the nail on the head there. I receive many calls per week from surveyors wasting my time instead of researching themselves. How would another Agent react if we rang them for comps?

    I advise on price but most Vendors will set the price. Property value also hinges on Vendors personal circumstances which you cannot research beforehand!!

    This guy is an idiot......

    • 11 March 2011 09:24 AM
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    In any other "profession" it is important to tell the Client the truth rather than what they want to hear. EA's are not professionals, they are generally under educated, spineless sales people and when they hook up with a greedy vendor and a lack of buyers the outcome is today's moribund market.

    Having said that, the only people that can change this situation are the vendors. They get what they deserve. If they truely want to sell and move on with thier lives, they'll instruct a sensible EA.

    Property priced correctly is still flying off the books. We recently mis-typed an ad showing a price 10% lower than we wished. The phone was ringing off the hook.

    • 11 March 2011 09:23 AM
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    Learn to value like surveyoyrs do - now thats a real statement to make!!!

    Lets all go into the local agents/competitors and ask them what the property is worth -

    There is one way to value houses/property - all agents worth their salt know what a property will take in the local market - it's just whether they are brave enough to advise the sellers of this - as the agents that do over value are buying the sellers business on value alone as they know their competitors are likely to value lower thats the only way many agents 'win instructions' - I know it is down to the valuer to educate the sellers at how they have arrived at their valuation but in these tight economic times an additional £10k £20k or whatever amount is like a fly to S**T - come on guys and girls lets all start giving accurate valuations as it is holding the market back for all of us as many sellers have unrealistic expectations as they see their overpriced neighbours houses on the market!!!

    • 11 March 2011 08:49 AM
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