Rightmove defends its latest price hikes to agents |
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Wednesday 14th September 2011
Rightmove has confirmed that its prices are to go up from this November, but said it can justify its price hikes.
The confirmation comes after Rightmove founder Ed Williams and his wife, plus the chief operating officer, Nick McKittrick, all cashed in shares last week, as they traded close to an all-time high, to rake in millions of pounds.
EAT asked Rightmove why it was putting up prices, given its enormous profit margins and at a time when many agents are struggling.
Yesterday, Rightmove responded in a statement: “As agent membership details vary, full information about pricing changes is being communicated to each agent on an individual basis.
“However, the company can reveal that the rate reviews will again allow agents to freeze their current core membership fee depending on their level of advertising exposure on the Rightmove site, as well as gain preferential access to a new suite of advertising products for mobile.
“More than half of Rightmove member agents now invest in additional advertising products alongside their core membership, to help their brand and properties stand out on Rightmove.
“In the first six months of 2011, agents’ appetite to increase their presence on Rightmove saw their investment in advertising products increase by 35% compared with the same period in 2010.
“Rightmove’s overall market share of pages viewed amongst the top four property portals now stands at 84% (Hitwise, July 2011) and May 2011 was the website’s busiest ever month.
“Rightmove’s enduring popularity with the British public is also underlined by the fact that over the first six months of the year it was the UK’s 8th most used website, with no other property website placed within the top 100.”
Jason Bushby, head of Rightmove’s Estate Agency division, added: “Rightmove’s suite of online advertising products have proved highly effective for agents in this year’s challenging housing market, and take-up of these products continues to grow.
“Rightmove’s pricing review rewards product take-up, with Rightmove matching an agent’s level of spend with further products in certain circumstances.
“We have continued to invest in advertising, website improvements and innovations in new areas such as mobile. As a result, the audience of buyers, sellers, tenants and landlords which we are able to put our member agents’ properties, brands and expertise in front of continues to grow and set new records.”
But how are agents reacting? See our next story.
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Added by sokratis on 2012-05-08 13:29:31
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Hi there,
I would like to ask if you know what are the Rightmove.co.uk and Zoopla.co.uk membership prices. I would be grateful for your help. Thanks |
Added by Karl Sparkes on 2011-12-07 01:22:50
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I love sites and Blogs like this. We all created this monster and still feed the beast.
Do something about it like me I have always traded "or managed" homes on my doorstep I have live in Bradford west Yorkshire for 30 years and promote the local knowledge I'm not greedy attitude. Well I'm going www. In January and will be offering letting management a little further a field and expanding my business model to other local estate agents to offer letting with a difference. I hate fees and charges admin fees BTW i didn't say fees twice fees ain't the same as admin fees or charges in the eye of the "new letting agent" I have always charged for the work I do, not on credit checks and chase letters. Anyway watch this space and if your in the same frame of mind drop me a line absoluterenting@gmail.com Thanks |
Added by Mark Hughes on 2011-11-09 13:37:58
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Email sent to Rightmove today from our office:
Date 09/11/11 To: www.rentmove.co.uk From; www.rent-smart.co.uk Dear Jason Bushby RE: Rightmove January 2012 Fee membership rate Increase On the 2nd of November 2011 we received a letter from you informing us that as of the 1st January 2012 our fee will be increase from £265+vat to £305+vat which is a further £48.00PCM Gross increase. When we joined Rightmove in November 2006 of membership fee was set at £150+vat and the service today is the same as the service we received back then including the amount of leads generated per property. It was only in January 2011 that you increased our fees to from £215+VAT to £265+vat which I thought was high. Nothing has changed with the market nor your service. I am also aware after chatting with a number of other agents that they are paying a low fee pcm then we are. You are pricing small independent agents out of this service and making your fees unjustified unsustainable with unreasonable hikes in price increases each year. As a loyal customer for 6 yrs I would like to ask you to reconsider this action and agree to retain the current fees throughout 2012. Regards Mark Hughes Rent Smart UK Ltd 20 Kay Street Rawtenstall BB4 7LS 0844 800 9768 www.rent-smart.co.uk |
Added by TREVOR KENT on 2011-09-19 20:29:31
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I saw comment of setting up spurious websites a few entries ago. Seems to me the public, if educated that NOT EVERY PROPERTY for sale is listed on 'that' website, might just consider logging on to www.agentsnotonrightmove.co.uk
- whatch think!? Cheers, Big T. |
Added by on 2011-09-19 12:22:57
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@PeeBee
"HOW will you know when the waiting is over? " I'll have found a house that meets most of our requirements and the vendor and I can agree on a price at which he/she is happy to sell and I am happy to buy. In our area most properties we see coming to market are valued at or above 2007/8 peak prices. Some sell, some don't. As you know the buying public have access to a lot of information these days so we look closely at comparable properties asking/selling prices and partly base our decision on that information. @Chris I'm glad you're happy with your purchase and thanks for the anecdotal, here's another from my area - a house we thought might be suitable came to market, it was out of our price range so we didn't waste anyones time viewing as we couldn't afford it. After a month on the market the price was reduced by 15% which brought it within our price bracket. We looked and decided it was still a little more expensive than we'd be comfortable paying, we explained our reasons to the agent who suggested we offer what we felt comfortable with. We offered about 13% below the current asking price and made it clear that this was an opening offer and that we were expecting to negotiate. This was to ensure that we set expectations at an appropriate level, the vendor was quite within his/her rights to reject our offer outright and refuse to negotiate. Happily the vendor did decide to enter negotiations with us, but unfortunately we couldn't agree on a price so we walked away. The house is still on the market one month later, one of the stated reasons the vendor wouldn't or couldn't come lower was that they needed X amount to make their next move. Most would say that we need to get real and pay what the vendor asks, and perhaps to an extent we do, but perhaps the vendor also needs to reset expectations and/or negotiate a little harder up the chain? As for wasting money on rent, if we can negotiate a 10% discount on our target property that equates to almost 5 years rent so I don't agree that we're wasting money. We pay a reasonable rent to a reasonable landlord who provides us with a service. We are all happy with this arrangement. |
Added by PeeBee on 2011-09-16 16:46:15
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Unhappy Chappy: I knew you were referring to the 'anon' post - don't worry, mon ami - I wasn't huffed at all!! ;o)
My reasoning for the questions is simple. The 0.5% differential in Fee between 'anon' and the Agent your partner went with equates to £1750 plus VAT. IF 'anon' was able to secure an offer of, say, £3000 more than your appointed Agent (simply by going that extra mile...), then surely the Fee would have been worth it, as anon would have paid for him/herself plus a bit? May I ask why the Agent she appointed was not her first choice? Thanks for your responses so far. PeeBee ;o) |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-16 13:40:09
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Peebee I cannot answer for my partner in fact I should retract my first statement of no way on earth would she list with your company. I should have put no way on earth would I list with your the anon persons company.
1. 350k 2. No but had an offer and I think likely to accept 3, I dont know 4. No 5. I dont know |
Added by PeeBee on 2011-09-16 12:33:18
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Ray Evans: Dunno where this reloaded thing is coming from - probably the same prat who is posting half of 'my' comments at present...!!
So - 'reloaded' - for your information I am not, repeat, NOT, an Estate Agent. RELOAD AND CHOKE ON THAT! ;o) Unhappy Chappy: "My partner is selling a property right now at 1.25% commision... There is no way on earth she would list with your company. Not only is it expensive and unethical it also sound like it will not value the property to sell!!" Few questions, Sir, if you please... 1. How much is the property marketed for? 2. Is it 'sold'? If yes - at what percentage of the Asking Price? 3. Is your partner totally happy with the Agent? 4. Was the Agent her first choice? 5. What were the criteria for the decision to choose? |
Added by PeeBee on 2011-09-16 12:15:08
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So - you WANT to be called 'Insignificant Buyer'. Fair enough - but I have made my feelings known on the matter so the best you will get out of me is IB!
"Good because I don't think I'd buy (...anything I was trying to sell you...). Why the vitriol?" What vitriol (apart from the first sentence of the above quote...)? You have simply read the words I typed on a screen. You read my posts the way you WANTED to read them - the intonations and stresses you inserted where you believed they should be. Read them again - without the attitude this time... As you said yourself, "...no doubt you've an opinion or two... but please try not to make assumptions about someone you know nothing of." Did I assume - or did YOU? Answer - we BOTH did, to some extent or another. It is human nature - but you can't have a go at someone for doing it if you the do it yourself! "Sorry but that's a pretty stupid comment." Really?? (NO vitriol intended... ;o) ) I am sorry you feel the question is a stupid one - a simple yes or no would have been sufficient and certainly less confrontational - however I would argue that the question (and your answer...) be of extreme importance in determining your status as a potential buyer: "Ultimately I desire a lot of things, a specific house isn't one of them... The only thing I'm waiting for is a decent house at a reasonable price, I'm not playing any games." So - humour me with the answer to one further question (feel free to call it stupid if you like...): HOW will you know when the waiting is over? Just to confirm, by the way, I won't and DON'T lose sleep over your situation - nor over that of any other buyers, sellers or Estate Agents for that matter. I DO, however, dedicate most of my waking hours to them - I think that is enough. PeeBee Smiling while typing - and not a vitriolic bone in my body ;o) |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-16 12:05:59
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| I often hear this being said from EA's to buyers "the value of a property is what to SOMEONE ELSE, not YOUR 'valuation"! OK if this is true why bother to value properties at all..Why not just list the property details and invite bids :0) |
Added by Ray Evans on 2011-09-16 11:55:50
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| Can we have less of this stupid juvenile 're-loaded' nonsense! |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-16 11:43:21
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At anon....My partner is selling a property right now at 1.25% commision... There is no way on earth she would list with your company. Not only is it expensive and unethical it also sound like it will not value the property to sell!!
Trust me the commision you would make on 1.25% would cover your expenses....and if you turned it down I guarantee another more professonal agent that actually wants to make some money would take up challenge |
Added by Reloaded - Reloaded on 2011-09-16 11:04:44
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| www.boycotteveryone&everything.co.uk is available, who's in?? |
Added by JS - reloaded on 2011-09-16 10:48:58
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www.boycottestateagents.co.uk is available, who's in?? |
Added by Fun Boy Agent - Reloaded on 2011-09-16 10:46:56
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Yes David, you are right.
An agent will charge his fee and the Vendor will never be happy to pay it. My girls get dirty looks, verbal abuse, threats and even physical abuse (Battered EA Syndrome) from unhappy clients who felt being ripped off every single week. And this is after they have paid my fee. I expect this is true and common in most good agency offices You couldn't be more right if you tried. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-16 10:16:16
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No David, you are wrong.
A good agent will earn his fee and the Vendor will be more than happy to pay it. My girls get flowers, chokies, cards and even kisses from very happy Vendors who enjoyed the service every single week. And this is after they have paid my fee. I expect this is true and common in most good agency offices You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. |
Added by David - Reloaded on 2011-09-16 10:07:18
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The big issue here is about feeling you are paying the right price for the EA's service. I doubt there is one client that feels that the price is fair, and that the constant gazump is a good way to maintain client loyalty.
EAs are abusing their position, thats right, it is ABUSE. That is not the way for a long term business relationship. RM are starting to operate in the same way as EA's, yes maybe they slightly abuse their position BUT as opposed to Ea's they provide an excellent service. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-16 09:37:48
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Ric suggests an 'invisible day'
Stop the RM abuse of agents. If the city got wind of our power over the stock displayed and our poor opinions on how we are treated in respect of fees it could alter the opinion of potential investors, this could have an effect on share prices, this would most definitely hurt the pockets of Miles, Ed and Joanna. If (I love if) Miles, Ed and Joanna thought they would actually lose significant personal wealth by upsetting their client base they may well change their views. The only hope is to act together though. |
Added by I agree on 2011-09-16 08:07:23
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@ DAVID
What you say is 100% correct i can honestly say we have no contact from RM till price increase time. RM are abusing their position, thats right, it is ABUSE. That is not the way for a long term business relationship. |
Added by pete on 2011-09-16 07:05:43
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@peebee
"the asking price is the selling price" - are you being serious??? If so then this would imply that agents never overvalue something in order to get an instruction. In my neck of the woods it's common practice and most buyers know it! At a click of a button you can look at recently sold houses in your neck of the woods, see their asking prices then look at the actual 'sold' prices. The facts don't back you statement |
Added by David on 2011-09-16 01:00:42
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You always know when their prices are about to go up (twice a year?) because their rep gets in touch on the premise of customer service, rougly 2 months before they hit you with the rise.
The big issue here is about feeling you are paying the right price for the product. I doubt there is one agent that feels that the price is fair, and that the constant rises is a good way to maintain client loyalty. RM are abusing their position, thats right, it is ABUSE. That is not the way for a long term business relationship. |
Added by Chris - Reloaded on 2011-09-16 00:44:03
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The only thing I'm waiting for is a decent house at a reasonable price, I'm not playing any games."
Nothing wrong with that. What you might consider to be a reasonable price, others would consider that you are making a good offer. I value property every day and after 180-years in the job, I know my rotten onions so to speak. In order to value property (Probably anything else as it goes!) I look for similar properties in a similar area and compare. If a modern 900 square foot 3-bed house on a specific development sold last month for £110,000 after 3-months of marketing and I go out and see a virtually identical one tomorrow, I mindlessly assume that this property will sell for around the same price. I might make a suggestion to have a fixed price of £110,000 and asking price of £114,995 or try an Open-House day of Offers Over £105,000 and let buyers (if they're silly enough) fight it out back up to £110,000. I often meet buyers who want everything for nothing and on such property would offer only £10,000!!! I never tell them to sod off, because I am working for my vendor and know that I couldn't sell this property at £105,000, so I think my vendor should consider an offer that low. In fact last year, a buyer offered Only £30k of a property we were selling for £33.5k. I told the buyer that this was a very good offer and even by my own conservative valuations, it might worth at least £31.5k. I had originally told the vendor that it was worth this amount when I first valued it an another agent or two said similar figures to me. He said would you buy it for that and I replied yes, probably. My vendor rejected his £30.k offer and also agreed that if he went up to £31.5k, she would accept his offer, but he refused to budge stating it wasn't worth a penny more as it need new windows etc. Like you, he claimed to be offering a fair price and felt he was being reasonable. Later that day I mentioned the situation to my wife and next thing we were viewing it together ourselves. A day later we agreed to pay the vendor £31.5k for it. We now live in that very s****hole. Now that's putting your money where your arse is. Funny thing was, the other buyer came back a week down the line and wanted to increase his offer to £310, but I told him it was sold, to me!! Yes something is only worth what someone is willing to pay, and there are not too many "Someones" out there. Surely most of my sales are a case of only two people being on a desert island negotiating for a coconut, then it is worth what the other is willing to pay or the person selling it, but with hardly any potential buyers around, who knows what someone else is willing to pay! You will eventually get lucky and find someone desperate to sell for a lower price than the norm, until that day comes, you are living in the lap of luxury in rented accommodation, while people like me are going to negative equity and eventually end up losing our properties. I bet you won't think differently when you eventually want to sell your house, after you ended up buying one! |
Added by peter rivers on 2011-09-16 00:27:15
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Great portal delivers high value , miles ahead of other portals , why spend budget on portals where nobody looks , you get what you pay for , all agents moan but win a significant a mount of business each year, we use them and our leads .are consistently strong and they deliver 10 times more value that the papers that cost us significantly more.
I'm not defending the rise but everything allways does your gas and leccie for example, as long as I can see a return on what we pay rightmove I will continue to use them |
Added by Chris on 2011-09-16 00:22:55
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@I Buyer
"The only thing I'm waiting for is a decent house at a reasonable price, I'm not playing any games." Nothing wrong with that except what you might consider to be a reasonable price, others would consider that you are taking the pi$$. Probably why you are still in rented and no none wants to accept your offers. I value property every day and after 18-years in the job, I know my onions so to speak. In order to value property (Probably anything else as it goes!) I look for similar properties in a similar area and compare. If a modern 900 square foot 3-bed house on a specific development sold last month for £170,000 after 3-months of marketing and I go out and see a virtually identical one tomorrow, I have to assume that this property will sell for around the same price. I might make a suggestion to have a fixed price of £170,000 and asking price of £174,995 or try an Open-House day of Offers Over £165,000 and let buyers fight it out back up to £170,000. I often meet buyers who want everything for nothing and on such property would offer only £150,000!!! I politely tell them to sod off, because I am working for my vendor and know that I could sell this property easily enough at £165,000, so why should my vendor consider an offer that low. In fact last year, a buyer offered Only £300k of a property we were selling for £335k. I told the buyer that this was a joke and even by my own conservative valuations, it was worth at least £315k. I had originally told the vendor that it was worth this amount when I first valued it an another agent or two said similar figures to me. He said would you buy it for that and I replied yes, probably. My vendor rejected his £300k offer and also agreed that if he went up to £315k, she would accept his offer, but he refused to budge stating it wasn't worth a penny more as it need new windows etc. Like you, he claimed to be offering a fair price and felt he was being reasonable. Later that day I mentioned the situation to my wife and next thing we were viewing it together ourselves. A day later we agreed to pay the vendor £315k for it. We now live in that very property. Now that's putting your money where your mouth is. Funny thing was, the other buyer came back a week down the line and wanted to increase his offer to £310, but I told him it was sold, to me!! Yes something is only worth what someone is willing to pay, but there are a lot more "Someones" out there. Sure if there are only two people on a desert island negotiating for a coconut, then it is worth what the other is willing to pay or the person selling it, but with many other potential buyers around, who knows what someone else is willing to pay! You might eventually get lucky and find someone desperate to sell for a lower price than the norm, but until that day comes, you are wasting your money in rented accommodation, while people like me are paying off our mortgages at the lowest interest rates in history. I bet you will think differently when you eventually want to sell your house, if you even end up buying one! |
Added by Lou on 2011-09-15 23:20:31
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| @ insignificant buyer - I couldn't agree more with your response below. |
Added by Insignificant buyer on 2011-09-15 23:02:09
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| By the way, HTH isn't my name it's an acronym for "Hope This Helps" - as in I hope the answers I gave to FBA's question help. |
Added by Insignificant buyer on 2011-09-15 23:00:14
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@PB
"Yes - but often the Asking Price is also the selling price. A property is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. If that figure is the AP, then so be it. Are you actually expecting an Agent to say "Well... I reckon if you offer £20k less they will snap your hand off"? " It seems fairly standard practice that most vendors and agents try their luck with initial asking prices. When I sold our last place this was true and I don't see that anything has changed. The agents I talk to know that I'm aware of this and we have a good enough relationship that yes, some would say that *after a week or two* they will probably accept 20k less than asking. "Pity. YOUR loss, however - not the sellers'... The property WILL sell to someone. It may have been 'the' house for you and you never even gave it a lookover! " No doubt the house will sell, but my reasons for not bothering aren't out of petty spite and a sense of entitlement. Quite the opposite in fact, I don't want to waste my time or that of the vendor or agent looking at something that I do not consider value for money. As I've stated in other posts, I would like to see some value return to the market before I spend my hard earned money. If I don't see value then as nice as the house may be I don't see a point in taking things further. "No. It depends on what the house is worth to SOMEONE ELSE, not YOUR 'valuation'! You will NOT have an offer accepted that is below the vendor's expectations - please knock that idea out of your head completely. " No, it depends very much on what the house is worth to me as I won't pay a penny more than that. If the house is worth more to someone else and they choose to pay that then I wish them luck. I'm not demanding that someone sells me their home, I'm waiting to find a vendor that has the same price expectations as me. "If you DO get an offer accepted that is the vendor's minimum requirement, there is every chance that someone else may like the property as much as you do - or more even - and you will be outbid (no I have no doubt then you would claim to have been gazumped when in fact you hadn't...). " No, if and when I get an offer accepted I'll hope that the vendor treats me in the way I'll treat him/her. If I'm outbid so be it but if I have an offer accepted I'd hope that since the price is clearly agreeable to both parties that the property would be taken off the market and we were able to proceed peacefully. If we've agreed a price and treat each other with respect why would I be gazumped? "Are you an existing homeowner looking to trade up, or a FTB? Somehow you don't 'sound' like the latter - yet you are using their flawed logic of being in the driving seat, in pole position. trust me - you are NOT in control here! " Not sure why it's relevant but I was a homeowner, sold a few of years ago and went into rented because we couldn't find a house we wanted to buy at the time. I've no doubt you've an opinion or two on our real reasons for doing this but please try not to make assumptions about someone you know nothing of. I've no illusions about being in control, I feel anything but in control. I just don't accept that you are either, in fact why should any one person be in control? The house buying/selling process is about two set of people reaching an agreement, if one party expects to be in control then we get nowhere. "I am NOT an Estate Agent. I have nothing to gain here as I ain't trying to sell you something." Good because I don't think I'd buy it. Why the vitriol? "an HPCer said to me last week on another thread that he had "nothing to lose, and everything to gain" by waiting. I would disagree. He MAY gain - equally, he may lose. " That's his opinion, we each have one. Mine is that you only gain or lose if you are speculating. I'm trying to put a roof over my family's heads while ensuring I can put food on the table and clothes on their backs. What's wrong with that? "Is it worth the risk, I ask? Isn't the surety of having what you ultimately desire more valuable than playing this waiting game?" Sorry but that's a pretty stupid comment. Ultimately I desire a lot of things, a specific house isn't one of them. Over extending myself and risking my family's happiness certainly isn't one of them. The only thing I'm waiting for is a decent house at a reasonable price, I'm not playing any games. I posted my comments because FBA posted this: "To all buyers reading this thread. ..... This is research, please help." So I gave my opinion, if my opinions upset you then that's a shame but I won't be losing any sleep over it. I suggest you don't either. |
Added by PeeBee - Reloaded on 2011-09-15 22:52:34
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HTH: WOW! So you would cut your nose off to spite your face THAT easily?
Allow me to expand... "Aren't most asking prices just that, asking prices?" Yes - and very rarely the Asking Price is also the selling price. A property is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. If that figure is the AP, then so be it. Are you actually expecting an Agent to say "Well... I reckon if you offer £20k less they will snap your hand off"? "If they're not open to negotiation at all then I probably wouldn't bother viewing." You're absolutely right ! not your loss - the SELLERS and EA's'... The property might never will sell to anyone. It probably wasn't 'the' house for you and you make the right decision and didn't give it a lookover! "As for the level of negotiation, that would depend on the vendors circumstances (keen to sell, happy to wait), and how realistic I thought the asking price was." Yes. It depends on what the house is worth to YOU, not someone's 'valuation'! You CAN have an offer accepted that is below the vendor's expectations !. If someone offers you a pound coin for ninety pence would you take it? Of course you would- pay ninety pence and get a pound - BARGAIN! Surely you get an offer accepted that is the vendor's minimum requirement, there is quite a slim chance that someone else may like the property as much as you do - or more even - and you will be outbid , however beware of the EA most likely he/she will try to GAZUMP you !. Are you an existing homeowner looking to trade up, or a FTB? Somehow you don't 'sound' like the latter - yet you are using their straight logic of being in the driving seat, in pole position. trust me - you ARE in control here! I am an Estate Agent. I have nothing to gain here as I ain't trying to sell you something. an HPCer said to me last week on another thread that he had "nothing to lose, and everything to gain" by waiting. I would agree. He WILL gain - equally, he may lose. Is it worth the risk, I ask? Isn't the surety of having what you ultimately desire more valuable than playing this waiting game? WE KNOW THE ANSWER : YES ! IT DOES ! |
Added by Tim M on 2011-09-15 21:58:07
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PeeBee, too many hurdles at once.
Only one thing sells a property. A viewing. Market and sell the viewing. The house will sell itself. |
Added by The jury is sitting on 2011-09-15 21:28:21
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| Anyway back to topic who is pleased RM have increased their charges fors or againsts please?? |
Added by PeeBee on 2011-09-15 21:07:53
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HTH: WOW! So you would cut your nose off to spite your face THAT easily?
Allow me to expand... "Aren't most asking prices just that, asking prices?" Yes - but often the Asking Price is also the selling price. A property is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. If that figure is the AP, then so be it. Are you actually expecting an Agent to say "Well... I reckon if you offer £20k less they will snap your hand off"? "If they're not open to negotiation at all then I probably wouldn't bother viewing." Pity. YOUR loss, however - not the sellers'... The property WILL sell to someone. It may have been 'the' house for you and you never even gave it a lookover! "As for the level of negotiation, that would depend on the vendors circumstances (keen to sell, happy to wait), and how realistic I thought the asking price was." No. It depends on what the house is worth to SOMEONE ELSE, not YOUR 'valuation'! You will NOT have an offer accepted that is below the vendor's expectations - please knock that idea out of your head completely. If someone offers you a pound coin for ninety pence would you take it? Of course not - why, then, would you expect others to happily take the loose change from you? If you DO get an offer accepted that is the vendor's minimum requirement, there is every chance that someone else may like the property as much as you do - or more even - and you will be outbid (no I have no doubt then you would claim to have been gazumped when in fact you hadn't...). Are you an existing homeowner looking to trade up, or a FTB? Somehow you don't 'sound' like the latter - yet you are using their flawed logic of being in the driving seat, in pole position. trust me - you are NOT in control here! I am NOT an Estate Agent. I have nothing to gain here as I ain't trying to sell you something. an HPCer said to me last week on another thread that he had "nothing to lose, and everything to gain" by waiting. I would disagree. He MAY gain - equally, he may lose. Is it worth the risk, I ask? Isn't the surety of having what you ultimately desire more valuable than playing this waiting game? |
Added by Insignificant buyer on 2011-09-15 18:06:34
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"So - if the vendor's expectation is the full asking price (which I would be majorly surprised if this was not the Agent's immediate and serious response...), what would your decision be?"
Aren't most asking prices just that, asking prices? If they're not open to negotiation at all then I probably wouldn't bother viewing. As for the level of negotiation, that would depend on the vendors circumstances (keen to sell, happy to wait), and how realistic I thought the asking price was. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-15 17:10:41
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Oh My!
Insignifiacant Buyer tells us "I search RM daily (as does the wife)" Oh God, how many clicks is that, how many days, how many weeks, how many months? The BBC are saying Neil Bentley, deputy director-general of the Confederation of British Industry, said: "Strikes cause major disruption for families and businesses, and mass strike action would mean thousands of parents forced to take a day off work to look after their children. We urge union leaders to get round the table with the government and negotiate on the details." It is only right that all these people with an extra day off and not a lot to do, will click on RM only to find most of the stock on other portals that day. That is poetic |
Added by PeeBee on 2011-09-15 17:06:37
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'HTH' (there is NO SUCH THING as an 'Insignificant Buyer' in my world...) : "When I call the agent (if he/she hasn't called me) I just want to know the vendor situation and flexibility/expectations on price. From there we'll decide if we want to view."
Interesting phraseology. So - if the vendor's expectation is the full asking price (which I would be majorly surprised if this was not the Agent's immediate and serious response...), what would your decision be? |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-15 16:42:54
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@FunBoy
Oh yeh....bring on "Invisible day" some would say they cant see the point in it though! (that was bad yeh) |
Added by Insignificant buyer on 2011-09-15 16:23:54
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"Please tell us, do you browse RM because that is where you will find almost all property for sale listed? "
Yes. I search RM daily (as does the wife) because that's where everything is. I used to look at globrix/findaproperty/etc but stopped as RM has IMO a far better coverage, look, feel, and usablity. If it went away tomorrow I'd either use another portal or go direct to agents' websites. A portal is preferable as my time is valuable to me and I'm lazy. I really don't care where a property is listed, so long as I can find it. I don't care for premium listings, OIEO, etc etc. All I want to see is: - The price - Some internal shots to give me an idea of decorative state - Some external shots to give me an idea of garden size and state and a view of the front so I can pick it out on streetview. - A floor plan with room sizes so I can see the layout and what I might need to do to optimise space for us. Square meterage and a compass are also very useful. From the above, along with a glance at streetview and a satellite view to assess the outside space, I can decide if it's worth talking with the agent. When I call the agent (if he/she hasn't called me) I just want to know the vendor situation and flexibility/expectations on price. From there we'll decide if we want to view. HTH. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-15 16:14:51
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Unions have called on a nationwide "day of action" for 30 November, which threatens to disrupt public services across the UK.
Ric, Does this include an 'invisible' day on RM? |
Added by on 2011-09-15 16:05:22
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@ Unhappy Chappy
"Chris - So everytime you receive a price increase you pass this on to your customers do you? Rightmove knows its the only show in town, unfortunately for EA's the you not have the same power, competition is fierce and differentiation is low . If you Increase your fees there will be another agent down the road who wont...and they will get the instruction" We have increased our fees subtantially since the peak of 2007, just under a percentage point in fact. Agents in this area were quite happy to do 1% selling fees and now the average is between 1.75% & 2.0% +VAT. A few will do it for less and there will always be the odd agent that will compromise their fees, but as long as there are enough vendors coming to the market, you can afford to let the desperate agents fight for the scraps. These desperate agents tend to reduce cut corners in other area's though including Rightmove. They don't tend to sell very much and within a year they are gone. People see our sold boards and call us because they want to use us. They know the average fees in the area and are just happy to get on the market with an agent that can get them sold. Many of them started with these cheap £50 property websites (Send in your own photo types) and progressed onto ebay and then the cheaper agents. Eventually though, they bite the bullet, get some quality marketing and get themselves sold. Estate agents are still closing down, so why people think that there is so much money in estate agency, I have no idea. Vendors want a no-sale, no-fee service. They want free valuations, Rightmove, Zoopla, Prime Location, newspaper advertising, nice shinny brochures, they want accompanied viewings, feedback after every viewing, an office near them to drop off keys and the agent needs a company car to visit them too. All this costs money and someone needs to pay for it. Normally the vendor, so when RM and others start charging more, you have to drop something else or push your prices up. Agents already need to sign the Working Time Directive escape certificate to allow them to work more than 48-hours a week. Most do around 60-hours a week with only 4-days off each month. The hourly rate tends to be below the minimum wage so little more can be done on the wages front. Pretty much a case of RM prices up, selling fees go up too. In reality, fees will pretty much stay the same, only the chances of negotiating the agents fees down (Many vendors will try and haggle the fees), in unlikely to have any effect as the agent has to get his averages up. He will also be less likely to try a higher asking price, which the vendors again also ask for. That's the value, that's the recommended asking price (Slightly above the value) and those are the fees, take it or leave it. |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-15 15:59:00
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Cheers JASFTB, great feedback, more evidence people go on RM due only to the stock levels only and add on mean nowt! (just agency vanity!)
@FunBoy.....I am even now thinking of doing it myself, just to see how long it takes or how many complaints I get and if the phones stop ringing, worst case reply will be I say "oops upload error, sorry, there you go all back on" best case will be no quieter than usual, no complaints and perhaps a step in the right direction! |
Added by JASFTB on 2011-09-15 15:53:31
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I use RM purely because it has the most listings. Should another site pop up that matches or supasses RM for number of listings I will use that site - there's no loyalty here. I also use, though less frequently, Zoopla and occasionally I will look at a few of the larger Agents' sites.
'Premium Listings' mean nothing to me; a Natalie Portman endorsed 'House of the Year' status wouldn't sway me in it's direction if the main picture and price don't grab me. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-15 15:23:23
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Sorry Chris Sparrow, you are wrong.
But I love the passion. Ric, that would be a very good idea, a national day of action (or week) |
Added by Chris Sparrow on 2011-09-15 15:02:16
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how many small independent travel agents do you see on the high street nowadays?
how many small independent banks or insurance companies do you see on your high street? Now look how many 'corporate'/franchise travel agents, insurance brokers and banks there are? Can't you see that a major portal like RM actually protects independent estate agents? A portal like RM levels the playing field and allows us to compete with the multimillion pound franchises and their marketing departments. There isn't a big travel or insurance portal because none of the big companies want to build one or get involved in one, you can't set one up unless the majority of businesses want to get involved. If we all came off, corporates would build their own big portal again, they're positively gagging for it... they built RM and they know they messed up by dumping it, so they built their own version (countrywide at least) and to hedge their bets got into bed with Zoopla at the same time. If we all left RM then the corporates would all go onto their own portal or Zoopla. Independents would pay through the nose, envious of how cheap the corporates got it. Eventually we'd all be forced to become franchises because that'd make our Zoopla membership more affordable. We'd all then be feeling pretty nostalgic about RM, and moan about there not being any more independent EA's on the high street anymore. Take a look at other industries but don't envy them, pity them. Bashing RM makes sense and helps keep the prices down, if we were all happy and merry then the prices would double. For independents at least RM are a protective force against the corporates, leaving would be shooting ourselves in the foot. *rant over* |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-15 14:09:27
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Many fears it appears are the old, 1, 2, 3 jump and when you look back some sod will still be stood on the cliff edge going HA HA....
and obvious confusion that so many different contracts terms and times that no mass exit will ever be possible as a clean "get off" without having to pay for going back on if it didnt work and the next agent just stayed on. What if - every agent made their entire stock invisible, from DAY 1 and continued to do this each day and on the last day of the furthest agreement (ie the agent with the longest tie, who has agreed to come off) then the mass walk out! In the meantime users would start to drop off RM as no properties visible and RM can hardly make us show properties, nothing in the contract to say, thou shall show houses, infact they give us the invisible button! it might even dent their ratings so much that they realise how easy it would be for us to topple them in such a short time!....could be a good 1/2 way house strike to say we like RM but play fairer! |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-15 13:44:29
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"Don't get me wrong, I like RM too, I simply believe they are taking the mickey out of the industry because we let them." I totally agree with you you agents do let them.
I thought you guys were professional negotiators :0) |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-15 13:09:38
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Chris Sparrow joins list 2.
I think we just don't collectively get it. One supplier dominating a whole industry because we pathetically let them. Travel industry says NO. Insurance Industry says NO. We say, "yes please", in fact we subliminally say, "please charge us more, you are so good to us". The tail is positively wagging the dog here. These instructions listed on RM are OURS. Take them away, no RM, no share price, no public loyalty to RM. The public are would follow the scent. Don't get me wrong, I like RM too, I simply believe they are taking the mickey out of the industry because we let them. Ever been on holiday, purchased a beer and thought, blimey, they must have one price for lacals and another for tourists, and thought how wrong that is? If you have you should be feeling exactly the same about RM coz thats what they are doing to us, shafting us, and we take it . And some even say how happy they are to take it. Goodonya. |
Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-15 12:15:36
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| The travel industry gets by without an equivalent behemoth like RM, does it not? Just a thought... |
Added by Chris Sparrow on 2011-09-15 12:06:35
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@POTW:
Yeah that would work if there wasn't a dozen internet agents that can swoop in at a moments notice, take the instruction at half our costs and get them listed on RM. Vendors aren't stupid, if they want on RM they'll get on RM even if all the agents in the area come off. |
Added by Chris Sparrow on 2011-09-15 11:58:08
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I love a good RM bash as much as the next man, and would love an NAEA portal that actually worked... but I just can't see it happening. RM have 90% of the properties listed (as I'm told by my EA) and there's only one agent in my area not on RM and there's a good reason for that, the public LOVE RIGHTMOVE, it's as simple as that. I tried to come off them but my vendors wouldn't have it, the public love RM and want their properties listed there. RM have the best product, and vendors want the best - it's pretty simple really.
I'm not happy at the price but I spend far more on the papers and get less back. I'm not on Zoopla because, as an indy I like that RM are corporate-free - I wouldn't want a corporate controlled Zoopla having the power that RM now has so I wouldn't support them and neither should other indy's if you've got your head screwed on (lets at least learn from some of our mistakes with RM please!). |
Added by Puzzled of Tunbridge Wells on 2011-09-15 11:21:33
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Someone said:
"If every agent in my town left Rightmove, I wouldn't care. In fact, I wouldn't care if every agent left, as if it still works for me to sell our clients homes and covers it costs, its worth it in my opinion." If every agent in your town left Rightmove, and a potential buyer went on Rightmove and searched in 'your town' and only found the properties you have listed - they would pretty soon find out which other portal had the other agents' properties on and use them. This isn't rocket science. If Rightmove only had one agent per town - no-one would look and they wouldn't have the revenues to pay to advertise themselves. And they said: "Of course I want value for money, and this latest hike is a big one, but RM didn't get to where they were without throwing some serious dosh at it." Yes, they threw money at advertising and gained a dominant position. Since then they have hide their rates continuously and make, by comparison to most companies, a massive profit as a percentage of turnover. The IT costs to set up a 'Rightmove' are nominal - look at how many other portals there are. |
Added by Ray Evans on 2011-09-15 10:19:21
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At the present time I am on the side of the vendor not the agent so the volume of transactions is not my consideration.. As I have said before agents are not owed a living and if asked I would assess the vendors situation and in many cases (not all because circumstances are individual) advise anyone who does not HAVE a very good reason to move should not at the moment - no-matter how much the agent pressurises them. The market will eventually find its own level then they can decide. Until then quite a few agents will cease to trade - in fact it could be a way out for some, then come back in a year or two? Not as silly as it may first appear.
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Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-15 09:41:07
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Common sense Ray ; )
You haven't told us your ideas how to get transactions up again though. I'd wager a one-year bond from the Greek government that it doesn't involve lower prices... |
Added by Ray Evans on 2011-09-15 09:30:05
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@rantnrave
Good morning again! Do you really know everything about everything and the solution to everything for the property market, because that is the impression given. How do you do it? ;>) |
Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-15 09:20:43
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Liked the Man U v Man CIty analogy. Don't think it's quite accurate though - HPCers want lower house prices, EAs need more transactions, which in this market would mean lower prices. There should be a lot of common ground between the two. There isn't on this site because it's more HPCers debating with BTLers who also happen to be EAs.
Someone's also just described today's housing market as being a 'free' one. We've debated this before. End the SMI scheme, end lender forbearance on those behind with their mortgage and have the Bank of England do their job (interest rates 2 points over the inflation rate). Then we're a step closer to a free market... Having got that off my chest, since this is a thread about Rightmove, I'll toddle off before someone tells me to do the same but less politely. |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-15 09:11:47
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Chris - So everytime you receive a price increase you pass this on to your customers do you?
Rightmove knows its the only show in town, unfortunately for EA's the ydo not have the same power, competition is fierce and differentiation is low . If you Increase your fees there will be another agent down the road who wont...and they will get the instruction |
Added by Ray Evans (was Ray mondo) on 2011-09-15 08:44:56
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@Ed & Joanna
Sorry, but I no longer subscribe so you get nohting from me! However,I still think that RM is the leading portal. |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-15 07:53:34
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@lou
You say - am surprised that anyone sees a re-listed property as new to the market!! I know every inch and every house for sale within the last year in our target area (fairly sizeable - a bit North of the M25). I say - You missed a VITAL word in my comment, relisted but with a REDUCED price! Different agent, different marketing different price (lower obviously) that is pretty much a new property to the sector of the market it now prepresents based on price. FACT! You say - Also don't see how turning off web would help me. More time spent looking would not help. Less control over what I see would not help. Sometimes, a list of criteria is all very well but there are many intangibles to finding a home, and I don't believe the vendors' agents are in the best position to spend the time really getting to know what you are looking for and what might suit each and every buyer that comes through their door. I say - This post was not really engineered to help Lou find a house to be honest (and said with complete respect) it was about RM monopoly and the usual (agree ot not) complaints that they call you once a year to ask for more money beyond that...nadda! HOWEVER the very reason you have listers and negotiators is that negotiators are infact employed basically to match people to property and to do that, they ask questions, imagine a negotiator in the next office you walk into YOU: Hi Im looking for a house NEG: Right okay well have a look on the wall I havent really got the time to talk with you....Nah...your well off the mark! You seem a very self sufficient do it yourself kind of lady and clearly the font of all knowledge when it comes to north of M25 property (your words) and good on you - BUT perhaps your being rather sneeky in you ways, You dont want help from EA's yet your reading a EA website trying to find useful info as per your first comments.....so infact you are possibly a bit more into us than your average house hunter. PS all said with a smile and calm tone, please do not read any of that as a insult merely an opinion (right or wrong) |
Added by Mr Bull on 2011-09-15 07:04:45
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| I do wish people would stop whinging. Right move have a product, a price and you can purchase that product or not. It's call a free market, just like house prices! You pay your money and take your choice. And if for example most agents did 'boycott' right move, I suspect right move would change their business model-perhaps by offering listings directly to vendors! Imagine how that would go down! |
Added by EA Consortium on 2011-09-15 07:04:16
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What seems to be emerging from this debate is a need for the forming of a consortium of independent estate agents with the objective of participating in common activities and pooling of their resources for achieving common goals. The key here being the independent status of members of the said consortium. One shoe fits all bodies such as RICS or NAEA clearly cannot represent the interests of independents alone. These bodies are of little use in circumstances where an issue has no impact on corporate agencies, such as price hikes by Rightmove.
Such a body would need to be not for profit and non commercial yet financially secure. As stated in posts here, if the industry created yet another commercial monster that sought to make profits, run by ambitious entrepreneurial individuals, it would eventually seek to fleece its own members purely for the commercial gain of its principals. For very small sums of money per agency a very potent force could be created, a force that could compete with or even surpass the influence exerted by the biggest corporates. A force that would work solely for the interests of its members. It would only take between 500 and 1000 (or more) agents in a consortium to be workable at something like £20pm subscription. Such a consortium would principally act as a very large buying club for the independent agent members. The benefits would be far reaching in many areas of expense. Everything from Insurances, printing, advertising, cars leasing, stationary, training and the dreaded portals would find themselves negotiating with a powerhouse. A consortium such as this would need to seek out technology innovation that would benefit members and ensure such technologies became available to members at far less cost than going alone. This would or could put independent agents in supremely advantageous situations at point of sale (valuation) by being pioneers rather than followers. When widget wonga is presented to the industry at a cost of £200 per branch, discounted to £100 for members, the corporates still have the dilemma of capital investment. Not so with a consortium. The benefits would naturally be passed directly to members as savings against ongoing running costs that would far outweigh the monthly subscription, thus preserving the non commercial status of the body. No skimming a % off the top. Such an industry body would naturally engage and retain a decent law firm to gain advice on contractual impacts of any collective action against any given supplier through any dispute. This would include action against portals of course, no matter their size. Gone would be the cloak and daggers negotiations, branch by branch for fee setting. A transparent fee or rate for each service and each product would, should and could be negotiated. All members of the consortium would eventually be enjoying subsidies that only the corporates enjoy at present. At a future point a viable MLS could emerge from such a body. This again would be more powerful as a product than the imagined strength of the corporate agency with their numerous branches. They simply wouldn’t be able to compete on levels of experience, expertise and local advertising. Again, this would need to be a ‘not for profit’ proposition offered to members, by members and merely facilitated by the consortium to prevent another fee generating monster emerging. If you would like this, tell me. |
Added by Lou on 2011-09-15 01:22:11
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@Ric - ah well you see it is difficult to find a good honest agent. Or at least previous experience has sadly taught me to be very cautious. i will always rely on my own leg-work rather than put myself in the hands of an agent, be they ever so charming and attentive. I am an educated professional with money to spend and I will base that spend on my own wits. That's only sensible?
I have been informed of/'offered' houses before listing on RM/being brought to the market, however these have usually been the 'I will dain to sell you my house if you hand over exactly what I'm asking' sort of scenario, which doesn't sit well with me. Vendors want best price, and buyers want to see a tangible result for their large spend. We are all the same people. Also - am surprised that anyone sees a re-listed property as new to the market!! I know every inch and every house for sale within the last year in our target area (fairly sizeable - a bit North of the M25). Also don't see how turning off web would help me. More time spent looking would not help. Less control over what I see would not help. Sometimes, a list of criteria is all very well but there are many intangibles to finding a home, and I don't believe the vendors' agents are in the best position to spend the time really getting to know what you are looking for and what might suit each and every buyer that comes through their door. Many a time I'm being presented with white/cream kitchens with black granite, wet rooms, newly developed and fresh and plenty of WOW, with 'yes, but it is a very smart neighbourhood - lots of prestige cars, golf course etc etc' and what I'm really after is a fixer upper with potential where I can make a great home. (Do these generally get syphoned off to developers? Am getting that impression bif time) Also, there are lots of big houses with an impressive frontage and parking, yet teeny garden and totally overlooked - but I'm supposed to go nuts over it because 'it's impressive' (from the front)!! Not to me. Agents I'm dealing with just don't seem to get where I'm coming from. Rant over. Hope there are more listings in the next few weeks. There are a couple of houses that are ok, but what's being asked in terms of price is so wholly unprecedented, I just don't bother looking at them seriously. I'm finding it very frustrating. I don't think a selling agent could assist me in my search for a new home, and for him/her to not be acting in their own interests first and foremost. |
Added by Chris on 2011-09-15 00:43:28
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@ rightmove fan
" It's so refreshing to see estate agents getting royally dicked, you've been fleecing the public for years and years, I doff my cap to Rightmove for sticking one up you lot. Just pay up and stop crying !!! " You don't get it do you, this is bad news for the general public. Estate agents have already hiked their selling fees due to the low number of sale transactions since the market began it's downward trend. With the cost of fuel, postage, and now advertising fees going up above inflation, agents selling fees are likely to jump up again also! Feel sorry for the poor old vendor who now has to pay an extra £100 or more to sell his/ her property! Vendors want a no-sale, no-fee arrangement, so the agent has to charge more to cover the advertising costs of properties that don't sell. A large city centre office with 8-staff members and 3-company cars costs around £44k to £50k per month to run and all this money has to come from somewhere. It sounds like you hate estate agents, but they are still the best place to go when you have a property to sell, so if people want to have this service they need to pay for it. The greater the number of estate agents, the greater choice for the general public and overall, the lower the fees are likely to be. More estate agents in a given town or village, the more competetive the fees are! How Rightmove can justify £6k+ per year from every one of it's 44,000 branches is a joke. It's only a website with a few big computer servers to run and around a hundred staff, It doesn't cost 264 million pounds a year to operate this business, so they are bleeding agents dry, who in return need to charge more from vendor's to stay in business. Not so funny now is it mate, when your freinds and family are having to pay more to sell, because the agent's have "stopped crying and paid up"!!!! Are you really that stupid not to have seen this? |
Added by Ric Reloaded on 2011-09-14 23:27:16
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i Lou (Thanks for the reply)
Your right about the bickering on this site, although no surprise when you think the keys posters are EA's and HPC's, I would imagine the Man Utd web forum is visited by the odd City supporter now and again!! To your question, YES or at least they should do (more property to the market), we have 3 offices in Stockport, all of which having a much quieter September than usual for Listings, and as a result of this is that we are having hardly any sales month so far 0 sales in last 30 days but a lots of low offers to tie up! (supply and demand maybe, we are not seeing huge increases of new stock and none of the older stuff is now selling as people turn their back on property they have dismissed previously and property swapping from one agent to the next but with a reduction is being seen as a new property for some buyers selling within days although on for months previously) Without question I think more property will come to the market in the next 4-6 weeks. Not much more to add really on the answer to this though (hope it helps a little), Just to finish Lou, the biggest reason I would like the web to be turned off, is more for the grief of the buyer! I know harder and more time consuming for you, the good agents without the net would try to talk you into anything all of the time, new props, reduced, fall throughs, how you doing all sorts of calls, the web has created an environment that buyers want to search themselves, rightmove lists quicker than we can call 2 to 300 applicants. HOWEVER, perhaps we need to list on RM a week after instruction and that way get a chance to bulls*** to the likes of you about property that you will already know about as it is on RM and exclusive to the agent at that point! and this might restore some mistrust prehaps that many agents would rather be bull*****ing to you and presenting property to you that you are already aware of and probably never want to buy! |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-14 22:31:32
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Hi Lou (Thanks for the reply)
Your right about the bickering on this site, although no surprise when you think the keys posters are EA's and HPC's, I would imagine the Man Utd web forum is visited by the odd City supporter now and again!! To your question, YES or at least they should do (more property to the market), we have 3 offices in Stockport, all of which having a much quieter September than usual for Listings, but perhaps a result of this is that we are having a strong sales month so far 12 sales in last 3 days alone and still lots of offers to tie up! (supply and demand maybe, we are not seeing huge increases of new stock so some of the older stuff is now selling as people turn back to property they have dismissed previously and property swapping from one agent to the next but with a reduction is being seen as a new property for some buyers selling within days although on for months previously) Without question I think more property will come to the market in the next 4-6 weeks. Not much more to add really on the answer to this though (hope it helps a little), Just to finish Lou, the biggest reason I would like the web to be turned off, is more for the benefit of the buyer! I know harder and more time consuming for you, but the good agents without the net would talk to you all of the time, new props, reduced, fall throughs, how you doing all sorts of calls, the web has created an environment that buyers want to search themselves, rightmove lists quicker than we can call 2 to 300 applicants. HOWEVER, perhaps we need to list on RM a week after instruction and that way get a chance to talk to the likes of you about property that you will not already know about as it is not on RM and exclusive to the agent at that point! and this might restore some faith prehaps that many agents would rather be talking to you and presenting property to you that you are not aware of! |
Added by rightmove fan on 2011-09-14 22:11:53
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It's so refreshing to see estate agents getting royally dicked, you've been fleecing the public for years and years, I doff my cap to Rightmove for sticking one up you lot.
Let's be honest here, right move is the best of the property sites, nobody who's seriously looking to buy bother's with the alternatives. Just pay up and stop crying !!! |
Added by Lou on 2011-09-14 21:00:30
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@Ric - I would NEVER restrict myself to just 10% of the market - that would be crazy.
If there was no internet advertising I think I would probably go more down the line of maintaining a much closer relationship with the local agents - all of them. I do get regular e-mail updates from many which with two jobs and young children is an absolute must. Nothing that either hasn't already been on RM or will be on RM within 24 hrs, so far though. I have got/do get phone calls about houses, but usually I already know about them (market bore!) or after asking a few pertinent questions reallise they are completely unsuitable - they are often properties for which a chain is about to collapse, which I suppose may be an opportunity, but only if we wanted to live there. I don't bother with the paper as most of what's in there is old news, plus our number one target area is further away than the area covered by the local rag. Checking out separate agency websites is too time consuming. The only reason why I wouldn't move at all is if we couldn't find what we wanted. We need a property/price package to motivate us to part with our cash (actually some way over £500k - not really important, but just to demonstrate that we are serious cash-solvent people who really want to upsize!!) Advice re: the questions I mentioned earlier would be really appreciated. i come here to find out what the word is in the trade; try and get a bit of an insight. Too much silly bickering mostly! Agents that listen, engage and facilitate is what's needed more than anything. The pure salesman tactic just doesn't work anymore guys!! (Apologise - I'm sure that many of you are very good professionals, just come up against too many that are far from - and from quite prestigious agencies too. This market is doing terrible things to people. Hopeful it will get better soon, then we can get moving. Chin up. |
Added by on 2011-09-14 19:38:55
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wardy,
As someone who is looking semi-seriously at an area, I use Rightmove quite a bit. The premium listings make no difference to me. Floorplans are very useful, but in the absence of those the description can often cover most of it with roomsizes and a decent methodical description of the layout, which I would regard as sufficient to decide whether I would wish to view a place or not. Media tours etc are something I simply do not look at. The photos must include interior and garden shots. There's almost zero chance of me enquiring about a place without an interior photo (a few bad rental viewings in the past, places were total dumps and the agent was embarrased to show me around). It just saves wasting everybody's time. FBA- I do look elsewhere, but as you say RM has most of the listings. But not all. To be honest, I find some aspects of RM's search criteria a bit limited, so there is room for improvement. I'd have no qualms about looking at a different site that was done better and had more property of interest. A lot of stuff on Rightmove seems to be going nowhere fast, so if another site had a reputation for having more sensible pricing, I'd be going there in preference even if the niumbers of listings didn't necessarily exceed RMs. |
Added by Paul on 2011-09-14 18:53:33
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| Why not bin the newspapers and save loads of money? We are the only agent not in the local paper (since 2008) and have more 'solds' than any of the competition in the town ! We use rightmove but binned Zoopla ages ago for being rubbish. The paper was £400 for one page and was a waste of time. I don't agree with rightmove putting rates up but the only agent in the town not on rightmove had zero 'solds' at the last independent board audit compared to 23 for us. Also the corporates will never come off rightmove and most independents are spineless anyway so no point trying to get all us agents to 'stick together'. |
Added by Petition Now on 2011-09-14 18:10:05
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@ Fun Boy Agent
1. Mr Shipside, please don' t increase your fees anymore, not until the market picks up. Count me and im sure every agent in the country in Agree if you like this post |
Added by Ed & Joanna on 2011-09-14 17:54:22
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Here here Garth Timms.
As long as the agents are fragmented we can charge them what we want. We will get mega rich. Rightmove is bigger than them, we can pick em off one at a time. It is fantastic to get all your support in keeping us rich. We look forward to receiving your increased subs Rich, Ian, Ace, Raymondo, Ric, HD, Pbroagent and Ray Evans. We count on people like you to keep estate agents fragmented. You are the lifeblood of Rightmove, keep up the good work for us. I am sure you are the majority. Don't listen to those who want us to charge less. They don't know how good they have it. |
Added by PbroAgent on 2011-09-14 17:53:22
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"why do you use any other national portals at all?"
There are several reasons why we advertise on them but the main answer is that the leads we get from TDPG, although fewer, still result in sales and listings and thus make advertising on them worth it. A few months ago I analaysed our sales and looked at where the leads had come from. Roughly 60% came directly from the internet with the remainder from "old fashioned" techniques such a boards, window cards, word of mouth and multiple viewings (some of the leads for which admittedly did come from internet sources with some good agency mixed in). I think having the right mix of marketing tools is important, and over relying on any single method is folly. However I also think that cutting one's nose of to spite one's face is also folly, for if we all jumped ship and went to portal x, then all that would happen is that they would copy the Rightmove model and use their new found position to ramp up prices. You can argue that a self serving not for profit portal from the likes of the NAEA would be a great idea, but it doesn't seem that they have the wherewithall to make that happen. Unfortunately we have opened Pandora's box, buyers now expect to be able to search for homes from the comfort of their sofas at a time that suits them, without having to resort to paying for newspapers or wearing out shoe leather down agent-row and this will never change. I think that until a.n.other sorts out a decent enough challenger to RM then unfortunately we will have to make do with them. And no FBA please don't add me to list 2 ;o) |
Added by HD on 2011-09-14 17:50:42
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FBA
Don't think you really read any of my post. I am very adaptable to Change. I already use financial savings from areas of adveristing that did work to pump into areas that do. As long as things pay for themselves, then there worth having. We also signed up with Zoopla before any other agents did in our areas, which has certainly paid for itself and then some. Thats where feel I'm are a bit different, I don't say im going to do something. I will just do it. Don't care what my competitors do. |
Added by Garth Timms on 2011-09-14 17:39:07
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As a shareholder of Rightmove I take great delight in that despite of the fee increase, many of you will still continue to be subscribers.
Remember, Rightmove is run in my interests, not yours bitches. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 17:35:11
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HD,
RM is only working for you because you, and no doubt all your competitors are there too. Joe public searches the area, gets 200 properties to check out, then its up to the photography et al to do its work. Some will pick your stock, plenty more will go to the competitions stock too. Imagine this. (I love what if) You stick with RM but your competitors all bailed. How long before Joe public gives up on RM for your area and find the listings for all the other agents on an alternative portal, all in one place? Lets just imagine all your competition were paying 60% 70% less portal fees than you? What if your local competition used their financial savings to advertise everywhere 'Find Our Properties on' and they all went to the same portal. Do you think you would still get the same level of hits? Do you not believe that through the medium of RM you piggy back your competitors stock? Also, what do you think your RM fees would look like if you were the only player in town (+ corporates) advertising with them? Would you single handedly be happy to finance Mr Shipsides next £3.5million share sale? Just thoughts |
Added by Ray Evans on 2011-09-14 17:33:16
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Rightmove works.
Use it if it suits you, don't if it doesn't |
Added by HD on 2011-09-14 15:45:02
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FBA - I am a fan of rightmove, not a massive fan as their customer service and some other aspects need work, but I am a fan.
At the moment I am also a fan of Zoopla as well, i know a lot of people aren't, but it works well for us. If every agent in my town left Rightmove, I wouldn't care. In fact, I wouldn't care if every agent left, as if it still works for me to sell our clients homes and covers it costs, its worth it in my opinion. Of course I want value for money, and this latest hike is a big one, but RM didn't get to where they were without throwing some serious dosh at it. Compare that to the other end of the scale and look at the DPG, now pimping themselves out for a mere £50 month. RM must be doing something right. The agents in my respected locations have been saying for the last 5 or 6 years they are going to quit the local rag, but they haven't. Much the same as RM, you will shout about leaving, but you won't, and its probably not really about the money, its that you think you will lose face and credibility. |
Added by Richard on 2011-09-14 15:42:09
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Once upon a time there were no portals and property still sold. Look at agents adverts, in print, on line, nothing new. It’s the lack of innovation that means they have to herd together as they can't stand out.
Anyone old enough to be "pre portals" will know the old beef was the newspapers advert cost, just a different medium. Anyone used a technique called customer service, proper qualification of a buyer and a hot box? Turn off ya PC's try it for a month........Simple basics that many just don’t get, watch the posts….. I suggest stop moaning at external distractions, look home first. Why should Lou, the lady with 500K to spend have to do the graft? a good agent will do all that and more and get her moved. |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 15:29:04
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| FBA - That might work! but then if all your customers asked you to reduce your prices and you were the market leader what would you do? |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 15:29:03
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| FBA - That might work! but then if all your customers asked you to reduce your prices and you were the market leader what would you do? |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 15:26:33
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Ric - I'm sorry but I really think that is a pointless question.
Pbro Agent - You have done some intelligent analysis, I am sure some others havent dont or wont. One question why do you use any other national portals at all? |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 15:25:30
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2 petitions required by the sound of it.
1. Mr Shipside, please don' t increase your fees anymore, not until the market picks up. 2. Mr Shipside, I am so happy with your sevice I would like to pay more. I have 3 names for list 2. Who would go list 1 please? I don't mind taking the lists to Mr SHipside myself. |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-14 15:18:27
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Lou - Great feedback.....so.....what if zoopla, RM, globrix all the usual ones were not there or showed only 10% of the market you are interested in.
Would you:- A serious buyer with £500k to spend Stop looking and not move? Visit in all the agents websites? Or continue to look at just 10% of the local market? Seriously (nicely said) What would you do if there was no RM, Zoopla and Globrix? |
Added by PbroAgent on 2011-09-14 15:12:22
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We have had about four and a half times more enquiries through RM this month than from all of the other portals we use (including our own website) put together. (We don't use Zoopla)
Will be be leaving RM anytime soon? Not bloody likely. |
Added by Lou on 2011-09-14 14:38:14
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Afternoon all. As a prospective buyer (budget over £500k) and RM user, would like to add my view -
I prefer searching for new listings each day. I do this by a single click on RM link in my browser history as it has my search criteria ready to go. I look at the house and location, then look at floor space, garage & garden space. Photos help, but dimensions really important (metric dimensions only a no-no, and I'm not that old :o) Floorplan is really important. Photos of smart furniture/status car strategically parked across front of house a real turn-off. I really like RM because I can look at Satellite view to gauge position of house compared to surroundings, plot shape & size, plus do a local school check and pull up Ofsteds really easily. Then the Streetview function is interesting to gauge position, width of plot, where driveway sits, and maybe speed limit of flanking road. I need all this info to trim down houses I want to go and view - saves wasting everyone's time. Price is of secondary importance at the moment to a degree - if other criteria are met then I look at price with a view to - see the house, see if you could live there, make an offer. Premium listing means nothing to me. I will judge for myself. I've not spent much time on other portals. I have been on agents' books, but have found that if you don't buy something that a) they would like you to take off their hands, or b) within a couple of months of looking, they soon lose interest, which is a huge shame because I'm sure I'm missing a lot - from what you guys have said. Also, I'm sorry, but my experience so far has taught me to simply not trust agents (some difficult times and flagrant porkies). I know they (you!) work for the vendors, so am very wary of putting myself and my family finances in their (your!) hands. Trust my own groundwork far more. I wouldn't look at a range of portals - just takes too long. Better to stick with one, and I thought RM had majority of what's on the market - disappointed to hear it may only be as little as 58%. Advice as to how to better effectiveness of search - best approach would be much appreciated. So, for me, RM is really important. I think, honestly, that if properties were differently 'valued' then this thread wouldn't even exist. Also - I know a lot of people are beginning to take more of the process into their own hands and do leaflet drops in their preferred areas to see if there are prospective vendors out there who may be considering selling, but are holding off because of the state of the market currently. Plenty of success stories out there. P.S. Will there be fresh properties coming on this month? Does that traditionally happen when the schools have gone back? |
Added by Ray mondo on 2011-09-14 14:25:06
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@Fun Boy Agent
You are not suggesting we rape the vendors instead (price wise) like many do on this site are you........;>) |
Added by AceofSpades on 2011-09-14 14:22:54
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In this day and age, the public like and respond to portals. The filters can run searches of most markets specific to their needs. Cars, insurances, homes etc.
A good portal provides added value to estate agency. Rightmove delivers this far, far better than anyone else - it just so happens to be a bit more expensive, because it is the undisputed portal of property. It's proven and has mass traffic. If RM does not work financially for you, find another portal that does. YOU say it is a 'stuff you' fee, but I know plenty of other agents (indys mainly) who would argue that. You've taken your own opinions and dreams and labelled them as the 'industry's' - that's where you have got it very wrong. Your like the naughty boy in the class room trying to encourage the rest not to do their homework that night, because you don't want to. In that case the kid normally turns up the next day to find everyone still has done their homework and he's on his own. |
Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-14 14:12:25
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Anecdotal - the guy who set up the website of the company I work for moved on elsewhere. Two years later, the site had a major crash and our guys couldn't get things up and running again. Eventually we had to get the guy back in who had set it up - but only when he had the time from his other contracts. The result - our website was out of action for over a week and the loss of income and contacts was highly significant. Meanwhile, our competitors of course were having no such problem.
Not every company cannot afford it's own 24-7 IT support. If RM goes down, then it's RM's problem to sort it out and they have the expertise to hand. No-one EA is losing business to another - all who use RM are affected equally during the blackout. How valuable is it to know that such technical support is there and extra resources don't have to be diverted to solving an IT problem? |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 14:06:47
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FBA - The "am i right?" was sarcastic my apologies?
You perfectly sum up the problem none of you will go it alone and you will not work together. In monopoly market you will be relying on competition entering the market, being competitive and innovative and stealing market share. p.s you have an interesting strap line "Get the prices down, not up, make Estate Agency business healthy, stop raping it, that is my message." does this apply to house prices and EA fees or just RM subscriptions fees? |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 13:54:43
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No Unhappy, you are a buffoon.
Although your list of my qualities are spot on.. thanks. RM is a great product, it has by far the Lions share of the market, it is getting towards a monopoly. If I jumped ship alone it would make no impact on RM, just me. If I did do this I would need to reduce my fees and buy my local market. I could do this but it would not help any other local agent, it would also make me too busy. I am not against RM as a product in any way shape or form. I am outraged at RM in respect of not appreciating their customers and the fiscal strain their customers are experiencing at this point of time in recession. Their fees are too high and they are getting higher. I am doubly outraged at the huge sums of money extracted from the business by their directors. Every penny was originated by the sale or rent of a property presided over by an ESTATE AGENT. As a group, estate agents are easy prey to these sharks because we do not work in unison, we have no common voice yet we have common goals. That is my problem. We are watching these people pick our pockets and letting them do it simply because we have no champion. Where is Spartacus when you need him. Get the prices down, not up, make Estate Agency business healthy, stop raping it, that is my message. |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 13:25:57
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FBA - So lead the way cancel your subscription!
You value intelligently your offer fantastic service you are professional you have competitive fees Vendors will instruct with you because of this and the buyers will find the properties you list elsewhere Am i right? |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 13:13:29
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HD, Ace, all you fans of RM....
If (I love if) we as an industry woke up and acted together, you too could enjoy RM at a realistic fee not a 'stuff you' fee. You would benefit from the effort without putting any effort in yourself. It may be better to sit on the sidelines over this issue. RM, Zoopla and DG are all on the TV with ads at present, where do they get the money to do that? Oh! From you. The said 3 TV advertising campaigns are to attract what? Oh yeah!... Buyers (potential buyers) clicks. Why do the portals do that? Why do they advertise for buyers, they don't charge buyers anything? They charge you! You pay a premium rate so your favorite portal can advertise more so they get more buyer clicks so they can charge you more. Its a cycle. Don't you get it? Why don't the portals advertise for more Estate Agents? We are their customers, we pay their income, why is this? Don't you want Estate Agency residential sales, sales agreed.. exchanges, completions! Surely you do, don't you? You want to run a viable business for yourself, your customers and your location. Making any portal (or the people who own them) rich beyond belief is not within your interest or the industry as a whole. |
Added by AceofSpades on 2011-09-14 13:03:23
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FBA - "If the right property, at the right price, in the right location and with good presentation is on offer, the public will find it.
If the public only found 30% of UK property stock on RM, they would look elsewhere and you wouldn't be faced with huge RM bills every month. " At present, pricing is up to the agent/vendor. The right place IS Rightmove. Rightmove offer the best presentation and usability to the public. With regards to the 30% suggestion - Rightmove deliver an astronomical % of properties on their site already - why do you need someone else to do it? What you strive to achieve already exists in the form of Rightmove, you just don't want to pay for it. Each factor you list that would make anyproperty.com so good, is already offered by Rightmove. Many agents like Rightmove, every customer appreciates its value, else they would not be subscribing. The public think Rightmove is the bee's knees. You will not re-create a portal as good as RM for half the price. If the RM offers no value to yourself, then leave - it's that simple. That's all your discussion comes down to....unless you have £20m burning a hole in your pocket and want to have a go at your own portal - sure prices would be dirt cheap then, too! |
Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-14 12:57:44
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Reading the comments on this thread and others, any attempt to have EAs exit RM en masse seems as likely to succeed as EAs agreeing together to stop overvaluing. The incentives to not comply are too great, re the Prisoner's Dilemma.
As an aside, Pee Bee and others do occasionally tease a postcode out of HPCers in an attempt to try and find property that matches their need and price. That would be near impossible to do without RM's scope. |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-14 12:53:22
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@Rant - by far the most useful comment on RM especially the jobs bit and I agree great way to understand prices from far away...
I wonder though whether faced with the decision of relocating for a job, you may take that few extra minutes in your day if you had no other choice. Could you google "estate agents in" and get a list as something as life changing as a relocation would surely warrant a few minutes extra work! or are we really becoming a nation of wanting to put nothing in and get everything out! Perhaps I am really lagging behind with the idea that agents would be better off with no "one stop shop" portal but it is a fact that if we did not feed them, they would not exist and buyers serious about moving would spend a bit of extra time on the search! Too many other industries have proof a one stop shop is not needed. |
Added by Ray mondo on 2011-09-14 12:52:17
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| FACT! Most agents actually brag about their membership of RM and actively tell vendors/purchasers to visit RM - not even to go to their own exclusive website! . At the moment who can blame the agent? Whilst that continues there is no contest.- it's win,win for RM |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 12:51:59
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Ahhhh!
Thank you Unhappy. So.... all we Indys need is the vehicle that allows us to blink in unison. Agreeeeeeeeeeeed. |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 12:45:26
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FBA - of course I agree If Rightmove had less properties listed than another it would not be the potal of choice by would be buyers. However the point is this is not the case and the only people who can change this is you the agents. But none of you want to blink first.
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Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-14 12:38:13
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RM is definitely more convenient time-wise, that's for sure. I might look at two or three other sites from larger EAs in the area if RM didn't exist, but certainly not all of them (I might look at more if I felt there wouldn't be so much on offer at 2007 prices - I actually avoid ever looking at sites of the serious overvaluers round me: don't want them even thinking their website is attracting visitors).
Another bonus of RM is that it's national. Looking for jobs elsewhere, I can go on RM and get a feel for prices and rents in that town. It would be harder to do that if I didn't know who the EAs were in another area. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 12:36:51
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Ace,
You are crystal clear, you are a fan of RM. Let me ask you though. Are you not waiting for that call which goes like this:- "I saw a property through you this morning and I wish to make an offer" ?? Isn't that your goal? If the right property, at the right price, in the right location and with good presentation is on offer, the public will find it. If the public only found 30% of UK property stock on RM, they would look elsewhere and you wouldn't be faced with huge RM bills every month. You would then I presume, have more money available to advertise in local press, if you so wished, other property portals, if you so wished, magazines, if you so wished, etc. etc. You could perhaps give your customers a better service. Unless we forget, our customers are our vendors, not the buyers, and unless RM forgets, we Estate Agents are their customers, again, not the buyers |
Added by HD on 2011-09-14 12:30:15
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Well Said AOS.
For years as well it has been echoed, that Everyone should pour money some money into Propertylive, but it hasn't happen, plus NAEA are bothered. So then where do all your properties go when every body supposedly leave rightmove all at the same time, Zoopla or DPG, if this happened and they took a monopoly share, don't you think they would be charging through the roof. Guys if you really don't like it, jump off Rightmove. I doubt anyone will though. I have said it before and will say it again, I monitored our newspaper advertising really closely over 2 years, Vendor leads and applicant leads, in the ned it just wasn't paying for itself, so i jumped ship. All others in our respective towns still advertise in the papers, they may use it against us on a Valuation, but it didn't work for us, and I would chop any web portal that didn't deliver us value for money as well. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 12:24:12
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Thank you Rantrave,
You are confirming the 'real' issue. Rightmove has a 4-1 listing majority in your area over Zoopla. So rightly, you click Rightmove as first choice. ..But.. If Zoopla suddenly had a 5-1 or even 10-1 majority in your area over Rightmove you would go Zoopla first, RM as an afterthought. If (I love if) the Corporates in your area stuck with RM but the Indys all left, I think as an HPC'er you would view RM in a totally different light as RM would then be infested with overpriced stock. The Corporates would also list on Zoopla, they wouldn't be able to help themselves. The ball is firmly in the indy court at the moment, we just dont speak with one voice. There is the problem. Solution.. high fees from RM. You would eventually give up on RM if we acted in unison. |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-14 12:18:27
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Hi Rant
What if perhaps there was no "one stop shop" would you type in individual web addresses. (PS no other option!) or would you say forget it Im not moving? Hi Unhappy I think what is meant and quite rightly is the buying public would go to anyproperty.co.uk tomorrow if RM dropped 80% of its listings and anyproperty.co.uk showed 90% of all property for sale. They are only loyal to the site which offers the most property! RM offer the public nothing but property? without property they would offer what? |
Added by AceofSpades on 2011-09-14 12:15:47
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But why do you want RM to come up blank? The whole point for me is that Rightmove delivers an excellent service - much better then the local press, at a lower cost.
The general feel is that agents want another portal to deliver the bells and whistles of RM, but at a knock-down rate...not going to happen. The public love Rightmove - that's why it gets so much traffic. The fact that many of you want other agents to hold your hand and leave together shows fear and confirms that you do actually believe Rightmove delivers a service. If you didn't, you would simply leave and let your competitors continue to 'waste' their money. Even if another portal started to compete, they would HAVE to increase their charges to stay at the top and they would WANT to increase their charges to maximize of penny of profit possible. You don't create a 'monster' to kill another. Like I said, many agents would be increasing their fees if they knew they people would pay. |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 12:05:04
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FBA you make a very sweeping statement saying that the buying public are not loyal to rightmove....do you have any market research to prove this. I witness lots of people searching for homes .....first port call is normally rightmove.
Why do you use it ? |
Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-14 11:53:06
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In my area, RM has close to four times the listings Zoopla does. That speaks volumes (pun intended).
One other site I do check which is somewhere between a portal and an EA (if such a thing exists) is the Express Estate Agency: http://www.expressestateagency.co.uk/index.html Yes, it's a HPC treasure trove. However, they seem to advertise very aggressively online (or it's just a program reading what I usually browse and placing a relevant ad - their ads seem to be aimed at attracting sellers though). I find RM to be more user friendly than other such sites. It would take a lot to convince me that another site had more listings and a better interface. It has been said before though - destroy RM and another will quickly rise to take it's place - fees and all. |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-14 11:46:20
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@FBA morning!
I can tell you now the answer would be "no" every buyer going on RM and getting just a few properties would stop using it or would use it in addition. If we all just drop every "one stop shop" web site, buyers WILL visit all the agents websites....like they do with so many other marketing sectors. Clothes shops, travel, trains, cars, most have a one stop portal, ie Autotrader, Go Compare etc but all have not been taken over by them as they simply do not allow it. How many people check out Direct Line for insurance? after watching their TV ad saying we are not on compare sites (which is basically their equiv of coming of RM) How many people look on Autotrader, then the car dealers direct site. RM offers the best value for money at present without a doubt based on clean crisp site giving leads, but those leads WILL WILL WILL find their way to your agency if we were not on it as a group. Forget the stop moaning and just come off, even if you like RM would you not rather stop wasting money and get the leads anyway if we all agreed together. RM does not make us any different than the next agent, it actually just makes us all the same! RM would not survive on Private listings if this is the fear of what if! as they will lose the ONLY thing making them good, property and all of them over night when we stop uploading within 48 hours people would just not return!!! Has anyone with a real market share been on RM and come off and can let me know if it effected them, we have a serious market share as a small indep company with 3 offices and I just wonder what coming off will do. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 11:45:32
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Face it fellow agents, RM is on fire, and we are the ones pouring the petrol in.
Stop pouring petrol in and the fire will go out. The public are telling you this here and NOW! |
Added by JS on 2011-09-14 11:44:36
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Their lettings and sales price hasn't changed for me for the last year or 2, it's always been around 700+vat for lettings and sales, I therefore just keep to lettings with them for £349+vat as we're not a high volume sales agent so it simply isn't cost effective.
Approached by DPG a couple of months back and offered £50 per month for sales and lettings = may be saying bye bye to RM soon! In terms of leads the two are actually very close now, don't use Zoopla though, they were appalling. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 11:42:54
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OK.. RM in 'bookmark' and you click it...
If you did that and... 'NOWT ! NADA and NICHTS... Would you be at all tempted to put another link in your 'Bookmark' that had more listings? Or would you trudge on looking at RM even if there was nothing there for you to look at? |
Added by on 2011-09-14 11:41:15
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| 2 simple things will get me clicking on a rightmove add. The right Price and a photo of the front of the house ie not the sofa or the back of the house (cos the front is ugly) or some twigs in a vase. |
Added by Ray mondo on 2011-09-14 11:38:33
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@rantnrave
Then you have probably missed out on the bargain you have been craving for. |
Added by Mike Emery on 2011-09-14 11:38:33
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Is it not surprising that Ed Williams cashed in a couple of days before the price hike was leaked...
We've created a monster. |
Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-14 11:33:58
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If properties vanished overnight on RM, I'd probably think the site was having a technical problem and I'd check back in a couple of days.
When I go online to search for houses, I do not type 'propeties for sale in postcode xyz'. I click on the RM link in my bookmarks... |
Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-14 11:29:47
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Predictably enough, it's the price that draws me to click a link. No matter how much something is dressed up with whistles and bells, if it looks overpriced at first glance, then it barely registers.
I'll balance that by saying if I click on something that looks more sensibly priced and there's only one pic of the exterior, then I'm immediately thinking the inside probably looks like a bombshell and so it's not for me. Don't even read any accompanying blurb. Ditto for properties where there are only pictures of the garden / no pictures of the garden / no pics of the bedrooms etc. Anything that is not being shown is assumed to be a major issue and the lack of a picture draws attention to rather than hides this fact. I would have thought all of this is common sense. I'm still surprised by how many properties there are on the site with insufficient pictures though. One place that's been empty for a while I've walked past and peered in through the windows. Looks fine inside, but there's only an exterior pic on the RM listing. Wasted opportunity given how easy digital pics are to take these days. Not trying to make a sexist remark, but I'd imagine for ladies looking at the site then photos are even more important. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 11:27:42
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To all buyers reading this thread.
Please tell us, do you browse RM because that is where you will find almost all property for sale listed? If yes! Would you still go there exclusively if you searched a postcode and where it used to have 100 listings for you to browse through you came up with only 10? If all the agents in your area were advertising (for instance) find our listings on Globrix, would you be tempted to check it out? What if you checked it out and found 100 listings for your area, checked back at RM, definitely found only 10 again, when you next logged on for your property browse, where would you click? If you found the right property at the right price advertised on, lets say Globrix again, would you decline to view it because it was not advertised on RM? This is research, please help. |
Added by Ray mondo on 2011-09-14 11:22:55
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Agents themselves made RM the success it is by advertising it on everything from the start for FREE and are still doing so! That is why the public are so aware of RM and so quickly.
I am not saying agents should not have - but they did and do. Just think about it, the FREE advertising of your product in every town in the country - what a wheeze!. So agents, stop griping and get on with it or, if it is not worth it just leave. P.S. Setting up a geographically viable consortium (agressively advertised) would seem a good alternative? |
Added by Fritzy. on 2011-09-14 11:18:53
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| A first time buyer looking to bag a bargain, and the way it is listed makes you think it ‘smacks of desperation’ yet that doesn’t have any effect on how interested you are? Righto. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 11:18:07
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Every year, without prompting or collusion and as an entire industry, we withdraw our advertising from local press at Christmas. We do not need a forum, a discussion or any other commentators to persuade us this is the correct thing to do for our business. There are one or two who buck this and put an ad in during this period, but it gets them no extra business, just extra expense.
RM is no different. It is an advertising medium for Agency, nothing more .Clever businessmen granted. There would seemingly be no upside to taking your property off their website while you continue with a subscription to avoid a 're-join' fee with increased monthly subs. OK... A small protest then. Like an Easy Jet booking. Fill the plane, and once full, take off. If not enough interest, no take off. But.. What if (I love what if) 5000 agents all put their listings to 'invisible' for one week and all at the same time. No breach of contracts in that me thinks. The public would start looking elsewhere to find their property porn. RM would see they do not have the 'control' they thought they had, if it worked, the industry could judge better the effect of dropping RM if the need became greater. 1 week.... a protest. Sure Ace of Spades and the Corporates would still list, but the public would switch to alternative portals if RM came up blank. Just more thoughts folks. |
Added by wardy on 2011-09-14 11:15:28
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are you more/less likely to click into a listing with a premium listing or one with more media floor plan etc?
what im trying to get at is the content of the listing more important than the big red circle in the corner of it. |
Added by on 2011-09-14 11:13:31
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| As an ftb whether a property is listed as premium makes absolutely no difference to my level of interest. Why would it? Why would I care that somebody, somewhere classes it as premium? It has no meaning whatsoever. If anything it smells of desperation. |
Added by rantnrave on 2011-09-14 11:06:56
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Seems HPCers opinions are more welcome on some threads than others...
If I see a Premium listing on RM, I tend to think 'desperate vendor who wont drop their price - to be avoided'. POA on RM is a joke too, because if you select to list properties by lowest to highest price (as I imagine many do in this type of market), then POA properties are slotted in place. For example: Letsbe Ave 3 Bed Semi - £199,950 Coronation St 3 Bed Semi - POA Willoughby Drive 4 Bed Terr - OO £200,000 I wonder what the POA is? I'll browse RM nine times out of ten, Zoopla the other one time out of ten and I don't think I've ever looked at or even heard of some of the others mentioned here. |
Added by wardy on 2011-09-14 10:42:31
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sorry, just wanted to add....
This is a great place to reserch the premium product ruse. The HPCers on the site are constantly serching out property, I would like to here how premium listings are effecting their serches? |
Added by wardy on 2011-09-14 10:38:13
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The new model they have adopted of keeping core membership the same if you buy additional products is interesting. Premium products are no longer ‘premium’ . If you want your listing to stand out these days I’m starting to think you’re better off without the add-ons and there’s the rub. They have oversold the premium products to the point they now have to use an increase in core membership to sell them. Bent over a barrel selling tactics.
There is another way. The revenue that RM are creating from add-ons is phenomenal. You don’t have to leave RM to vote on your feet. Just stop buying the products. Ok so your core memberships will go up but you’ll still save, you won’t lose out to vendors because you’re still on there and if they want premium listings jolly well make them pay for it. RM knows you won’t leave, I certainly won’t but you watch the share price plummet when 5000 agents withdraw their premium products. Why not try it yourself. Stick two similar properties on, use a premium listing for one. With the other one include a floor plan, virtual tour, brochure and 15 or so photos and see which one gets the highest click through rate. |
Added by AceofSpades on 2011-09-14 10:34:51
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The suggestion that they should be investigated for their market share is a joke. There are so many portals out there - some offering subscription at a fraction of the cost of RM. When all is said and done, agents choose RM because it IS the best.
The fact is, you have a choice. If RM do not offer value for money, then don't waste it. However, on the flip side, if you knew your business was extremely popular/successful and you could increase your fees by 0.2% every 6-12 months (and that people would still pay because of the service), then you would do in a heart beat. That's confidence for you. It is arguable that the same listings would be found on other portals (eventually), but as a seller, I would want my property shown on Rightmove - everyone would. This is where an agent loses appeal to a seller. Let's not forget, some of the public have never heard of some of the other portals, yet every man and his dog know RM. Until another portal has established itself properly as a realistic alternative, sellers are entitled to expect their home is showcased on the best, most popular and most visited portal. |
Added by Shipside's Ampitheatre on 2011-09-14 10:33:38
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I am sorry, but I have ran out of nouns and adjectives to describe Rightmove & its employees. So I have made some up.
They are complete glonting bults. |
Added by Ian on 2011-09-14 10:25:37
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| Rich.....over 100 leads a month = extra 2/3 sales = £7k/9k commission (average house price 150k). Argue the fact that the other portals MAY have provided the same leads???...not worth the risk mate, not in this market. |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 10:23:39
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Ian,
I understand, I truly do, I am on RM, Zoopla, DG, papers, etc. My point is, if you. or I stopped RM, all our leads would come from a different source. The public would still find them. The buying public are not loyal to RM, we the agents are. If RM had less for the public to look at they would soon look elsewhere. RM is a castle built on quicksand. It could topple any time, and the latest 2 sets of news (vast profits for directors and price rises) could be the shifting sands. Just my thoughts |
Added by PropertyHawk on 2011-09-14 10:22:24
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| Understandable protectionist strategy by rightmove against the happening change in the UK portal industry. Mediatel / UKOM metrics show that 51% of Zoopla’s audience does not go to rightmove, this coupled with Zoopla’s long term strategic partnering with regional media operators Archant and Johnston Press in powering homes24.co.uk and shortly PropertyToday creating multi channel multi media is already delivering comparable direct response levels for agents in many areas of the UK….final point…..Sky, even as dominant as they are in their space have recognised that their customers are having tough times….the response by them is to commit to holding prices for 12 months and they then promoted that they are supporting the hand that feeds them….perhaps that’s an example of a Smart-Move in customer relationship management! |
Added by Ian on 2011-09-14 10:16:47
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| Funboy.....we are on Zoopla (almost forgot as very rare to receive any leads from them) we also do ask the public and, guess what? Majority RM. Don't get me wrong I'm not there greatest fan in the way they continue to bleed us dry but if you REALLY looked into it you get much more back out of the investment....I know as I have worked both with and without. Oh and my prices are bang on thanks....!! |
Added by Rich on 2011-09-14 10:15:59
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Over 100 leads a month?? I can see the value in that, when you only get a couple of leads every week, £500 plus is a lot. Maybe we should be paying for results not hype?
Also dont think coneels sls and countrywide pay anything. They got it free at creation so that you sheep would go on it!! And yes I am a sheep,,bahhhh |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 10:14:17
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Dan,
No you would not lose any instructions at all. You might not win one or two, but you wont lose any whatsoever. That is the misnoma. And (The big if) IF the buying public needed to register with 2 or 3 portals to find their perfect home, trust me, they would. RM only have this hold over you as a "fear of the unknown" |
Added by Puzzled of Tunbridge Wells on 2011-09-14 10:13:49
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Dan: "The problem with our idustry is there is always some smart b***ard that will try to get one up on everyone else - if we all boycotted rightmove there would be at least one person that went against the pack and used it against us."
Which is why you need to organise yourselves locally. If one of you went round to all the other agent principals and said 'let's all agree to use a different portal' - and one of you did the dirty and stayed with the one you are all moaning about - when potential buyers do a search on the one you are all moaning about they'll only find a few properties and look at the other portals where, abracadabra, they'll find ALL the rest. And that's where they'll look the next day and the next week etc. It really would be quite simple to break the monopoly but it would have to be done town by town. If one town actually did it and the word spread - well you'd all be a lot better off. |
Added by Dan on 2011-09-14 10:03:59
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The problem with our idustry is there is always some smart b***ard that will try to get one up on everyone else - if we all boycotted rightmove there would be at least one person that went against the pack and used it against us.
Unfortunately I think we have very little influence over rightmove, we just have to chose how we want to run our business - either with RM or without it. If we are good agents with established brands in our local areas then we can probably survive without RM but you do have to ask yourself if saving the money from RM is worth it. We have a few offices and do have some of the extra and pay in excess of £2,000 a month - if I stop advertising with them, would I lose more than 1 instruction a month?? Probably!! |
Added by on 2011-09-14 10:03:58
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| The Corps pay less than £200 per branch PM. The indy mugs is where the money is at for RM |
Added by Fun Boy Agent on 2011-09-14 09:58:44
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Ian,
If you had the right property on at the right prices, and all on Zoopla (for instance) you would get 100 leads from Zoopla, not RM. The public are searching for property, sure they use RM, but they dont use RM excluseively. Oh! You don't believe me? Ask them.. |
Added by Rip Off Rightmove on 2011-09-14 09:53:43
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Yes, the up-sell items are a complete waste of money.
RM can shove their ampitheatre. |
Added by Ian on 2011-09-14 09:52:25
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| Everytime Rightmove is mentioned on this site we have the same comments.....I receive over 100 leads a month (approx) via Rightmove which is way in excess of all the other sites combined (find-a-property, Primelocation, property finder....etc). Until the other portals sort their s**t out they will NEVER compete. YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR...! |
Added by Chris Jones on 2011-09-14 09:41:47
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| We all need to stand together and say enough is enough to rightmove price increases. With out the agents rightmove would have no business! |
Added by agent still (just) on 2011-09-14 09:37:09
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| RM are going to implode, its just when not if, if countrywide lsl connells etc get together (like they did for the creation of rm) then they can create a credible alternative. The corps pay way way less but they still pay a lot. By the way any agent out there tempted to pay for featured agent etc - save your money, i have had it all summer and have had my lowest level of valuations ever. |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 09:34:34
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"Rightmove is putting up its prices to £700 per branch plus VAT – £585 for sales plus £115 for rentals."
£8400 per year does not seem excessive to me but if the increase hurts charge a small listing fee to all vendors! |
Added by bigG on 2011-09-14 09:32:28
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| Paying Rightmove yet more money is a Wrongmove. Vote with your feet and walk away boys and girls, there ARE other portals out there to use! |
Added by GlasgowEA on 2011-09-14 09:30:10
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This is the animal we all created....I reckon they will hit about a grand a month in 2 years time.
The Rightmove way is not happy then f**k off, charming account manager we have... |
Added by Ed & Joanna on 2011-09-14 09:27:25
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Please stop complaining.
We are getting stinking rich on the back of estate agents. I know you are finding the market a struggle and are working on half the income you were used to, but... you see... We are IT people, you are property people. You need us, we dont need you. If we hear too much dissent from your ranks we will go on without you. Stop whinging and pay up. We need the money, we are not rich enough yet. |
Added by Unhappy Chappy on 2011-09-14 09:27:10
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So you are potential vendor looking at which agent you put your property on with, one uses rightmove the other doesn't, which do you go with?
Do you guys ask your customers what is important to them in deciding which agent to go with? |
Added by anon on 2011-09-14 09:25:00
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| They Already increased rates in April this year by 20% !!!! This is disgusting !! |
Added by David Boyd on 2011-09-14 09:09:27
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It seems to me that for one Company, privately owned and raking in huge profits for it's owners to have almost a monopoly is not right.
Surely the Estate Agency industry via the National Association should have the ability to be able to set up it's own competitive site, - Expand Propertylive or whatever. If enough Agents used it then I am sure the costs would be nothing like as much as Rightmove and the profit could be put to better use than at present |
Added by Trevor Mealham INEAmls on 2011-09-14 08:27:17
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1: So whos getting the cheapest deal
2: who knows what the corporates are paying? Propertyy Portal Watch quoted a couple of months back that RM only had 58% of listings. So what other ways are agents doing alternative marketing? |
Added by Ric on 2011-09-14 08:03:16
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What amazes me is some and alot of agents will fall for the RM rep saying:
Dont take the £60 rate rise, spend an extra £140 on products which "dont do anything extra" for your business and we will fix your rate for 2 years........ Nothing like agency vanity when it comes to falling for the RM patter that is add ons, it is more unique for a property not to be premium listed nowwa days! Some have spoken about level playing fields on this site, is every agent settling just for listing on RM without add ons not a very good, easy and less risky way forward for those who complain about RM and getting on the level playing field. |
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