Consumers have ruled out the idea of house prices rising in the near future, and most perceive them to be falling at a faster pace.
According to the latest Knight Frank/Markit House Price Sentiment Index, out this morning, consumers believe that house prices are falling more this month than last.
Only 7% believe the value of their property has risen in the last month.
Households in Scotland and the South-East have seen the biggest deterioration in sentiment.
People working in the retail sector were the most likely to feel that their houses had gone down in value.
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Comments
If house prices come down, what will become of the fairies that bring free money to the homeowners?
Forget lower house prices helping FTBs or higher interest rates benefiting savers - wont someone please think of the fairies!
Is that the best answer / insult you can come up with. At least try and make it funny, or even close to the correct definition, let alone accurate!
Definition of both communists, HPC’ers, and Happy Chappy
Someone who has nothing, and desperately wants to share with everyone else
"The 2011 Sunday Times Rich List reveals that the 1,000 wealthiest people in the country are now worth a combined £395.8 billion, equivalent to more than a third of the national debt. Does Dave really believe these 1000 people would allow an economic collapse?"
Do you think they will prevent it then? If so what exactly will they do.....I am sure Mr Sarkozy and Mrs Merkel will be pleased to hear from you!
The 2011 Sunday Times Rich List reveals that the 1,000 wealthiest people in the country are now worth a combined £395.8 billion, equivalent to more than a third of the national debt.
Does Dave really believe these 1000 people would allow an economic collapse?
Keep bailing that hay and mucking that shit out (if that is what you are good at), And wipe your boots. Your smells are stinking up this site.
Dave
In that case mate I definitely want to be like you, except the smartphone.
Sounds like it's getting in the way of the country / owning a farm dream and to much of a distraction
Jonnie
jonnie
the company I worked for paid for my economics degree whilst working for them...I did alot of work in estate management
thanks for the rest of the compliments...
as it happens I'm posting from a cowshed on my smartphone
and I'm not joking
Blimey Dave
Ex agent, mortgage free farmer, and now an economics degree too!
I bet you are handsome, still got your hair and a cracking shag as well. I want to be like Dave !
................except if I was sitting in the kitchen of my farm house today rather than having to do a bloody Saturday morning in the office here I'm sure I'd have more to do than log on here? Just a thought but our Dave might be telling some porkies
Jonnie
peebee
I'm a free marketeer....what we have now is akin to communism
let the markets work is my motto
I would remind you that the uk is almost bankrupt,so is the rest of the world borrowing excessive money that doesn't exist fuelling an asset boom in property then being forced to bail it out.
my economics degree tells me this is a road to ruin and that to grow an economy you need new ideas and technology which historically comes from our kids
nothing left wing about that
Gazumpa "Aahhh...sod it."
Probably the wisest words on this thread so far.
Always best to leave the room when someone pulls your pants down and displays your lack of ammo to an audience of thousands...
"all the people want is a level playing field and a chance for our kids."
dave... dave... dave...
I will say this s l o w l y, as you seem to be missing a point.
It is "THE PEOPLE" as you put it who have driven prices to where they are. As an alleged ex-Agent (travel agent, maybe - but you wouldn't have lasted a week in a property shop...) you would know that - but your ignorance betrays you.
Earlier you said to me "...try to argue the point not the person.." There was NO point to argue. You made a ridiculous statement, totally without substance and clearly based upon personal dislike - as is evident in the majority of your posts. I could easier sew a button on a f@rt as "argue that point".
I see you as the 2011 version of Woolfie Smith. All blow:no show. At least Robert Lindsay was funny.
There's a good boy - trot along to Tooting and change the world there...
you are confusing wealth with money and quality of life.
all the people want is a level playing field and a chance for our kids.
on a daily basis I can do anything these guys can do and I sleep at night without worrying which of my body guards are going to betray me.
and in the end they are all going to die just the same as us without being able to take it with them
HPC'ers, dont look here, it will drive you mad.
http://www.rich-bastards.com
We are not all in this together. The UK economy is flat, the US is weak and the Greek debt crisis, according to some commentators, is threatening another Lehman Brothers-style meltdown. But a new report shows the world's wealthiest people are getting more prosperous – and more numerous – by the day.
The globe's richest have now recouped the losses they suffered after the 2008 banking crisis. They are richer than ever, and there are more of them – nearly 11 million – than before the recession struck.
AND THEY BUY HOUSES..... Doh!
Gazumpa, please explain. Maybe I'm wrong and you had a valid point to make.
Don't jump out of the fight if someone points the water-pistol at you!
Aahhh...sod it.
PeeBee, I'm going to guess he is talking about the theory that we play buyers against each other to drive prices up. In which case matey, lets save you the trouble.
That's BUYERS bullying buyers, and from personal experience, most Agents hate it as much as the buyers, especially if its a repo with several offers in branch. I have often heard the phrase from a colleague ' I don't give a damn who buys it, just stop people bloody calling!'
Once HAGI’s experts began monitoring the Classic Car price index it became clear that someone who bought a rare Bugatti, Jaguar or Ferrari in top condition would have done better during the current downturn than an investor in almost any other asset, including fine art, wine – or even gold, as a chart in Hatlapa’s new reference book, Better than Gold: Investing in Historic Cars – demonstrates.
Another startling fact emerged; the classic car market moved entirely independently of any other investment area.
The HAGI index has risen 31.5 per cent since it began tracking the market early in 2009. And while it tracks only the top of the market, which is now worth £20 billion with annual turnover of £2 billion, Hatlapa says it also informs movements further down the classic car market.
“It’s a niche market, not a substitute for other investments,” he cautions. “But if you have property, art and private equity, a collector’s car is an excellent complement to your portfolio, something you can enjoy and touch.
“One thing is certain: there’s a finite supply of classic cars. They aren’t making them any more.”
THE ULTIMATE INVESTMENTS
Gold
Price in 1980: £260 per ounce
Price now: £1,150 per ounce
Aston Martin DB5 saloon
Price in 1980: under £10,000
Price now: well over £300,000 for best examples (1964 DB5 belonging to Westlife’s Shane Filan sold at Bonhams’ Goodwood auction for £348,000).
Ferrari Dino 246GT
Price in 1980: under £9,000
Price now: £150,000-plus for fine examples (1972 246GT with 30,000 miles and meticulously rebuilt sold for £164,300 at Bonhams Goodwood).
Porsche 911 Carrera RS 2.7
Price in 1980: about £9,000
Price now: upwards of £200,000 for better examples with high degree of originality (at Goodwood this year, Bonhams sold a 1973 lightweight with replacement engine for £221,500).
Mercedes-Benz 300SL Gullwing
Price in 1980: about £25,000
Price now: up to £500,000 for very high-quality restored cars or ones with exceptional history and originality (at Goodwood, Bonhams sold a 1955 example for £342,500; this same car had sold for £122,500 at auction in 2001).
Ferrari 365GTB/4 Daytona
Price in 1980: £20,000
Price now: £250,000 for extremely original low-mileage examples or pristine restored cars.
Buy a Classic Car
"@PeeBee are you mad? How about GAZUMPING ???"
Erm... what about it?
Explain the nonsensical line and you will get an answer.
Just be prepared to be blown clean out of the water if you are going down the line of (non-) thought I believe you are...
As the last of the First World War veterans pass away, interest is growing in the medals awarded for their great bravery. And of course, each medal has an astonishing story behind it.
The record price for a medal is £491,567 in 2006 for a posthumous Victoria Cross to New Zealand-born Captain Alfred John Shout. He led a bayonet charge against Turkish machine gun fire at Gallipoli in 1915 with the Australian Imperial Force.
A medal specialist for auctioneer Spink in Bloomsbury, central London, says: 'The medal market is buoyant and there are still plenty of bargains out there. The 2014 centenary of the start of the Great War is expected to push up prices. Buy Medals
Stinks of HPCers in here !! Pooo
buy plenty of ammo
buy stab and bullet proof vests
buy frag granedes
buy sniper rifles
buy rocket launchers
buy racehorses
@PeeBee are you mad? How about GAZUMPING ???
While there is a massive and evident market for music and celebrity memorabilia, one alternative investment that may fall under the radar the most is musical instruments.
A Newsday article from 2002 reported that fine violins -- meaning violins currently running in the seven-figure profit margin -- have faired better than many other investments (including stocks) over the last 30 years, realising an annual appreciation of 10% to 12% Buy Violins
Fine Wine has consistently out performed all other forms of recognised investment. It has remained the
steadiest form of investment, generally unaffected by recession, interest rate changes and stock market
fluctuations. Fine Wine offers many advantages over other investments - such as unit trusts, life assurance,
investment bonds and equities - as it benefits from being stable, tax free, easily reaslisable, consumable,
low risk and portable. Above all else, due to decreasing availability, there is increasing rarity. Buy Wine
British contemporary art is on the up and galleries selling paintings are reporting demand is outstripping supply – particularly at the high end of the market. Some of this is definitely down to people seeing good increases in the sale of contemporary art. And, as a result more people have bought driving art prices even higher. Increases in value have been evident for works of art from living and dead British artists. Buy Art.
It has been reported that in some parts of the UK the price for burial plots has leapt up, in some cases more than doubling in value. In Dudley plots have risen by 25% to £1248, Wolverhampton have brought in a 54% price increase while Caerphilly's burial plots are expected to double in value within the next five years.
Hants EA, I'd suggest it's the blur between a professional and personal interest - EAs with BTLs, a pension plan that revolves around releasing equity from a high house price etc.
Thanks to some very loose lending during the boom years, the recent past has seen rising house prices and rising transactions. Ergo the reverse is perceived to be true. That period of reckless lending was certainly not the norm and was completely unsustainable though.
(I also think that posts which personally insult others attract more of the same in response - some on here, EA or HPC or whatever, could consider toning things down)
there were 37000 repossessions and 45000 this year..in 1991 repossessions peaked at 71000...37000 is alot of repos
repossession are not coming to the market and are being transerred to subsidiary companies done up and rented out or left
all that with 0.5% interest rates...god help us all if they go up.
I also note there are 1 million people in debt management scheme
you are of course correct that limited supply is keeping prices from freefalling ..but how long will that last?
Good point Hants EA.
I have been slated several times for pointing out:
1. Prices are falling
2. Prices should fall
3. Property "Values" are way off what they should be.
A bit of common sense makes this obvious (to me at least) and for the world to return to normal (ie before 2003 when this property bubble began) real terms values have to fall.
This will be a mix of inflation and price falls.
I have to say I love the fanboi flamewars on EAT.
If I might stoke the fire a touch...
We have a most unusual set of circumstances at the moment.
The laws of supply and demand are working perfectly.
Prices SHOULD have fallen massively, but they haven't because very few (comparatively speaking of course) properties are being repossessed (which you would expect in a global recession).
Back in the 90's prices fell by 25% in my area of North London because interest rates forced people to sell or get repossessed.
Interest rates are so low (I pay 3.07% variable rate on my mortgage) that nobody is being forced to sell and banks cannot afford to repossess every one of their slightly late payers.
LIBOR is 1.05%, BoE base rate is 0.5% so my mortgage company is making a 1.52% profit out of me every month - a HUGE annual compound profit.
The banks want to keep all that profit to pay down their bad debts so are making it very difficult for new borrowers to get a mortgage (low multiples and high deposit requirements).
Because no one is being forced to sell and very few can get a "suitable" mortgage the housing market is left with only a few properties to sell and only a few buyers to buy them.
Because most vendors then become buyers as well, the effect is even stronger.
What this means though is that supply and demand is nearly balanced.
Prices therefore do not change (much).
Unless something truly horrible happens, this will continue for several more years until the Real Terms Value of property returns to where it should be.
What I don't understand is why so many EA's on here get wound up when somebody suggests that prices are falling. Firstly they clearly are but more importantly, who cares?
The job is to match buyer and seller. As Johnnie hinted earlier, the sooner these two parties come to agreement the better for all of us. If that's with a price north of here great, if it's south also great.
Portable nequity allows homeowners to sell at a loss while keeping their debt to the banks on the books. Result? Falling house prices.
Back of the net.
Tony
5-7% gross linked to wage increases of 1-2% is a shit return.
Jeez even NS&I certificates are paying around 6% net. No hassle, no risk to the capital.
Yield schmield. It's return on investment that matters.
in the 90s they came up with a negative equity scheme..good idea really...whats the difference between negative equity on the existing house versus the new house?
One problem was agents fees and stamp duty/solicitors fees have to be paid cash and those fees and more than double today
Tuned into EAT this morning expecting a raging discussion on the news that banks are being pressured into coming up with transferable mortgages for those in n'equity. No sign of that story though... Oh well. I'll crawl back under my rock.
Now this is more like it,
You see on here we get the benefit of handfuls of pearls of wisdom from all sorts being bunged our way, take Dave, he’s a cracking example – all puffed up, bit cross, desperately mis informed on some stuff but and absolute encyclopaedia of 20 / 20 vision economics on other stuff and in my view EAT is a better place for the Dave’s of this world.
………………any way for every Dave there is a…what shall I call him? – A….Steve, yes, that’ll do it, a Steve – the opposite of Dave, Steve is the chap that has decided its time to sell his house [enter your reason of choice here]
Steve firstly needs to know what his place is worth, he’s got an idea, mainly because when his neighbour sold in 2008 him and his Mrs had a look on nethouseprices.co.uk and have sort of had that number in their head since, so he gets 3 or 4 agents round and it goes like this
Agent 1&2 – tell him £200k, he mentions the neighbours one and agent 1&2 bless em, bottle it, agree and settle at £240k but they both have sign written cars use hair ‘products’ and therefore should not be allowed to value houses.
Agent 3 tells him about several similar ones they have sold and that £200,000 is pretty much guaranteed but as he hasn’t seen anything yet, its early days for him and in fairness it’s a nice place try it at £220,000 for a month or so
Agent 4 comes in, cocks the whole thing up, isn’t really sure, hasn’t done his homework before the visit and says £250,000
…………….guess what bloody Steve does? – yup, picks the highest one. You see he is like our Dave but from the other side, just as passionate about house prices but has a blind faith they are going up and staying up, but according to this article Steve is now getting it and that is good news for everyone – the sooner Dave and Steve agree the better, the question is which one will be right, or at least the most right / least wrong
Jonnie
So What Dave is telling us is he is a retied agent turned Gold buying Farmer and likes to think of him self as Nostradamus with all his predictions.
What a guy
hey guys no need to be personal...I don't have an attitude,just opinions...opinions cannot be called incorrect.
history
15 years in agency retired at 35 to run a farm
correct predictions
1/asian currency crisis
2/dotcom boom/bust
3/US housing crash
4/bank shares implosions
5/debt crisis and bought gold
6/uk housing crash(then gov bailed it out)
I'm just telling it as it is....there is a coming crisis so huge its going to cause immense pain,the likes of which people have never experienced before...mainly due to the coming btl/housing implosion
So tell me dave. Where do you get all this property knowledge from? Because from where I’m sitting its seems to me that you know naff all. You write as someone that cant distinguish your own incorrect opinions with fact. How about you qualify yourself before offering property advice to the masses? We would all love to know about your years in the property game.
or just a troll?
Dave, your intention is to moan and have digs - solely. I noticed people commented that they do not bother reading your posts anymore, I see why - they are just fuelled with hatred. Have something useful to say.
Anyway, with less housing transactions in the current market, where are these people who are not buying going to live? Bingo. That's right, they will rent. Anyone that has bought a BTL with a short term plan is an idiot. I know a couple of people who have second homes and I can assure you that their intentions are a long term gain (like everyone else i expect), that are proving to be very successful.
Lose the attitude.
tony
when prices fall and buyers buy using 90-100% mortgages again...just who are you going to be renting your falling asset to?
if you don't keep up payments your bank will repossess you then come after your family home
btl will get many bankrupted...the yield only goes up if you buy at a cheaper price the existing btl is losing you money.I'm getting 4.49% in the bank and the only way that is going is up.Prices in uk could fall for 20 years...50% is possible especially on flats(or more)
peebee
try to argue the point not the person..I'm glad you have worked in a responsible way,however,that is not industry wide.
I've listened to many stories from buyers and agents about lying over offers and generally bullying behaviour
its been possible because of the extension or the bubble which is bursting big time
BTL still works for anyone looking for long-term retirement income: 5-7% gross, linked to wage increases - you couldn't get anywhere near that if you used a lump sum to buy an index-linked annuity, and most other savings routes offer poorer returns at higher risk. If house prices go down temporarily for a few years, your yield goes up.
"estate agents are gonna have to change tactics and start being reasonably polite to buyers instead of bullying them "
MORE merde de taureau from the Agent-unfriendly cr@pfarm that is 'dave'.
In 33 years in the property industry,I have NEVER seen an Agent "bully" a buyer; I have never met or heard of a buyer who claims to have been "bullied" by an Agent; nor do I never expect to.
Hard to imagine really - grab them as they try to run past the shop; twist their arms up their backs to accompany the agent to a property (or eighteen...); muscle an offer (or eighteen... out of them which is WAAAAY too low until they finally scream out a figure that the seller will accept (no doubt under duress also...); keep the twisting pressure on for the next eight to ten weeks while the sale proceeds to exchange; and only stop being that nasty-pasty when the ink is dry on the Contract. WOW - no wonder there are so few sales if you can only manage one sale per person per quarter to keep up the pressure on the poor buyer...
Back to the REAL world, methinks. 'dave' - you are a complete gripper. Work that one out for yourself IF your lonely braincell isn't too busy churning out the usual....
Come on, everybody has know it for a couple of years. BTL currently rushing for the exit down here in south Hampshire. I can't work out why they were the last to cotton on. Probably just dived in at the peak of the bubble "cos everybody else was doing it" and have been refusing to accept reality ever since.
yes, it looks like the penny has finally dropped.
estate agents are gonna have to change tactics and start being reasonably polite to buyers instead of bullying them
transactions will pick up,but the churn to banked money will be unpredictable
many agents are unprepared for hard work to get a sale through
they'll also have daily reminders that their btl porfolio is being trashed
Merry Christmas xxx