Martin & Co has stepped firmly into the sales market, charging 0% commission.
Three months after its softly, softly launch, the lettings chain has unveiled a new-look website to support the proposition. It says it has over 1,000 properties listed and is ‘competing strongly’ in the sales markets.
There are currently 43 sales agreed, with about 80 of the near-200 offices in the network offering a sales service. The figure is expected to rise to over 100 by the end of this year.
The franchise business charges sellers a monthly subscription whereby they pay only for the services they require. For example, if a seller wants an advertising-only package, that is all they pay for, from £299.
Martin & Co says it can cut sellers’ costs by up to 90% compared to traditional commission-based charging.
Ian Wilson, managing director of Martin & Co, said: “We decided that estate agency would benefit from a refreshingly different approach. With thousands of clients on our books, many of them looking to buy residential investment properties, it places us in a prime position to tackle the sales arena in a novel way, head on.
“For many, the idea of paying estate agents their full commission for a service they neither want nor need is very frustrating.”
All properties listed are advertised on Rightmove and the Martin & Co website site, which has over 260,000 visitors per month. Martin & Co’s offices also promote the properties.
Wilson said: “By giving the public access to the best internet sites and still providing them with a local office and friendly experienced staff, we are giving them the best of both worlds – online advertising and old-fashioned customer service.”
Wilson said the new offering rewarded motivated sellers.
He said: “Why should sellers pay so much in commission just because agents are ineffective and sell only a fraction of the properties they list?
“Sellers are regularly being told by agents to reduce their price, but it’s the estate agent who benefits most because they get their fee. With our approach, if priced realistically and a quick sale is achieved, you can cancel your monthly subscription and won’t owe us a penny.
“By 2013, the majority of our offices will be offering a sales service. We already have a very successful lettings business and we want to repeat that success with estate agency.”
Comments
not too hot, not too cold, it has to be right and demonstratably so
"you would know and undertand your legal obligations in respect of valuations"
What are the legal obligations?
Spot on, an agents duty of care to his client derived from case law means exactly that valuation hasto be accurate. Advice on marketing price is something different again
You are obviously not someone who has had training in valuation otherwise you would know and undertand your legal obligations in respect of valuations.
Whoever it was below who suggested that agents should charge for "valuations".
Does that not then mean that they are responsible (legally) for the accuracy of that valuation. Sale of goods act, fitness for purpose, of merchantable quality etc.
No wonder they are free.
Accurate . . . Ha! free seems a bit expensive (in many cases).
PeeBee - I'm trying to make up my mind whether that's a good hit-rate or not.
1000 listed in three months, by 80 offices - 4.17 listings per office, per month, from a standing start.
43 sales agreed - 0.18 sales per office, per month, again from a standing start
Opinions?
Think about the maths boys. The have aready earnt a packet out of simply listing 1000 properties, having them on their books for a couple of months is a bonus and selling a few is great but that isn't what this is about.
stick 3 zeros on the end of £299 to work out how much.
Peebee I though that too, it looks pretty poor...... but they have only been up and running 3 months. The consensus is the average time to sell at the moment is anything from 4 -6 months.
We also dont know how many of those properties have been taken on by M&co in the last fortnight.
Lets see how they are doing in a year then judge
It would be interesting to see the difference btween achieved and asking price too.
I dont see too many traditional agents openly discussing coversion rates aveage time to sell and % of original asking price achieved.
Not one comment on this -
"Three months after its softly, softly launch... it has over 1,000 properties listed... currently 43 sales agreed"
WOW!! 4.3% (...maximum - possibly much less...) of the register sold/under offer - that's one H£LL of a hit-rate!
Thanks for the offering - but I'll take my chances with the traditional dinosaurs, if you don't mind, M&Co...
What changed?
Three quarters of agents threaten to quit Rightmove
http://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/news_features/Three-quarters-of-agents-threaten-to-quit-Rightmove
I can understand, not support, but understand, the resentment of rightmove, as agents own stupidity has created such an organisation they are stuck with, but I just don’t get all the negativity behind anything remotely different. If it works every agent will copy it, if it fails numpties like Jonnie will be negative all over it!
show them some respect mate, they have weathered this storm better than many of their wealthy competitors, they are still here and still trading 20 years down the line.
lets compare them to Prudential, Black Horse Halifax and Woolwich isn't it better to modestly walk the walk than just yack away and fail?
This is so obviously another threat to Agents that are stuck in headlights not knowing how to respond to Messr Online Cheap and co, Two Fingers and Co an a letting agent who has out thought them.
Estate Agencies without premises might well do Valuations but the Online FSBO gateways to the portals can not possibly do anything other than guess at an asking price.
As reported on here a few weeks back the very best, data fueled online valuation tool is woefully wrong! Only Agents or valuers with an eye on the property. location,suply and demand,knowledge of planning developments or planning potential should ever give an opinion on value. In these hard times Vendors guesses will be high in the bad times the guesses will below
Do you really think that would change anything? Online estate agents do also do valuations so i really don't think that would change much for them.
Funny, this entire cheap / different thing isn’t new.
EAs charging a quarter of what most charge on completion, fixed upfront fee of very little or self sell websites like Tepilo (which more or less gets a full page ad in the Sunday Sun every week), most of them on RM as they are EAs all of the presumably run by people bold enough to set up a business. Point is it’s been around for years.
Some posters here seem to get a bit moist about it all like its something that’s not happening already? Then again, those seem to be the odd ball observers that know very little about the EA industry – so for the benefit of them – ITS NOT A NEW THING.
……………saying that since this type of alternative has been around it does have a place, with ill informed misers that would rather save two grand on fees but loose 10 on ballsing it up / paying a halfwit £300 to balls it up for him
This Martin & Co one is okay, trouble is most Martin & Co lettings businesses are fringe players in the towns they are in and aren’t even the best letting agents, the very thing they specialise in, now they have got some of the franchisees all fizzy over this so the poor sods can also be a fringe player in resi as well and get a double in doing two things badly
Jonnie
I am not suggesting any agent does that on their own. In the main agents know each other and talk to each other, do just that talk to each other and work out how you are fgoing to tackle the looming problem of PI's and the much bigger threats from RM, Tesco, Zoopla and Google. None of whom can operate without advice on value done on the ground, at the premises.
There is nothing wrong with free advice on value but in the same way as your effective cuase of sale Ts&Cs protect you from vendors who sell privately to applicants. introduce the same clause for valuations. Reserve the right to charge if it is used by Passive intermediaries or FSBO. the threat of 3 local agents pursuing a claim for a few hundred quid a piece ought to put this commercial theft to rest
I simply love the defeatist attitude " Oh dear we all are going to get a kicking unless some stands up to take the first punch, I don't like the sound of that it might hurt"
Its better to take the first punch than a continual and expensive kicking
Martin and Co have spotted the threat and are taking the first punch but you lot have turned on them, that is just nuts. They are more likey to fair better than the luddite agent who sticks to their technology assisted 19th century practices.
"It is simply commercial stupidity for Agents to continue to give free valuations. "
It's commercial stupidity to be the first in town to start charging for them, for the first to start charging will be the first to find all the valuations going to the others who are still free..... without the valuations, there's no business.
"Well it is obvious that some didn't read the article and those that did missed the point. FSBO can do almost the entire job of selling their own home and in some cases do it quite well. "
.... if they've got a home that bloggers and journalists will write about and spread the word for them, and can be pretentious enough to expect agents to 'get' their home, as they put it.......
If their home had been an plain, ordinary 2-bed bungalow on an no-name area of nowheresville, with no history of being used as a film location, it would have been a different story, surely?
Well it is obvious that some didn't read the article and those that did missed the point. FSBO can do almost the entire job of selling their own home and in some cases do it quite well.
Re read that article and spot that the one bit they couldn't do was Value their home and assess a realistic asking price without the assistance of local Agents. It is simply commercial stupidity for Agents to continue to give free valuations. From this point forward any Professional/Traditional Agent should include terms and conditions that allow for the invoicing of the professional service should their intellectual property be used for the purpose of FSBO or used by Passive intermediaries.
Every single online valuation tool powered by Agents data should be taken off line and only be available to those that supplied or own the data. I would argue that any use of Sold price and certainly offer prices used by at least 3 of the portals is a breach of data protection act. Other than repossession what agent ever discloses an offer to another applicant? That data is being flaunted round the internet like a Tart’s knickers , IMO only the Agent, vendor, buyer, solicitors and land registry have any right to know details of private treaty transactions, any data uploaded to the portals should not be used for the commercial gain of the portals without the express consent of the parties to the transaction.
It is wholly wrong that Agents' data, intellectual property, experience and goodwill (in the business sense) is being stolen and misused both by sham online internet property listing companies trading as Estate Agent to give themselves a degree of respectability and the Portals themselves who are using the data for the promotion of their own businesses and possible future plans to dominate the Industry.
PS Troll with no name, what do you actually get out of attacking people who are taking part in a discussion? One suspects you would not be brave enough or rude enough to do it in a pub or restaurant so why do it here? Care to say which service provider you work for? Rightmove, Zoopla, Expert Agent look around the edges of EAT for the full list! At least the HPC crowd on here do so with an agenda, yours is just malicious online thuggery, very brave, very clever! (Not)
I am jealous of no one and look down on no one. I can look them in the eye though
From the description i think i live around the corner from you.
Ahhh i was wondering where my spending money went thank you for letting me know.
That's right low value slums,with 3 external walls and a roof of their own, where the air is clean and one can leave the doors unlocked and the windows open. Where people smile and say hello.
Oh I am so envious of you wealthy folk oh how I long to drink water filtered from yesterdays Poo! and buy fish caught 3 days ago. You lucky lucky Bastard.
Funny how your sorts always seem so envious of what we have,but the best bit is how easy it is to take all your spending money off you in just 7 days.
Agent and landlord,
The saving is £6500 pounds off the 500K property, but I guess you are selling off some of the low value slums you own (a managed service for £84 its one bed flat where i live)
Anon coward i doubt they spent 3 months of their lives on it at all, in fact I doubt the spent 3 weeks they managed to have a life and another career while succesfully selling the property.
I know what I am doing and can do it well but I value my time more far higher than money. I pay other agents to sell for me and let for me.
£84 to fully manage a typical rental per month, taking phone calls from tenants too drunk to realise that a Bidet or sink isn't usually fitted with a flush and Poo won't go down the plug hole.
£2000 for waiting around on no show applicants. Pah! leave it to the experts
@Wakey Wakey Boys and Girls - I just loved reading that, a very diverting afternoon when I had little else to do.
If you drill down through their experience though it actually proves why estate agents are worth paying for.
2 people spent hours/ days/ weeks and delayed for months trying to save £10k.
Now, don't get me wrong £10k is a large chunk of cash, BUT for the time, effort and grief they must have gone through to save it, the NET result must have been closer to about £3k.
Sounds like it was thoroughly worth every minute of it.
Imagine what you could do with 3 months of your life back and considerably less risk of futzing it up...
The funny thing is that the owners are web designers, which is (bizarrely) a very similar situation - nearly everyone knows how to use Microsoft Word (for example) and website design is not (much) more complicated, not really. (It is if you want something amazing, but most websites are like pop-up books really).
@Gonzo, Who would want to do that?
Answer = people that want to save money and have bit of cash available
Property value = £500K
Average time to sell lets say 4 Months
Traditional agent cost £7500
Martin = £1055
I know which i would choose!
@W did you even read the article? The only thing those people did not mange to do was list a portal. Martin offer this at £299..
most will be waiting for a press release from Miles
@IHS
As I said before it's £39/mth (with an hefty upfront fee on top)....seriously guys come on how hard is it to just log on and check it for yourself if it's bothering you?
I agree not really that much to worry about. Who would want to pay £899 upfront when you can pay not much more on a no sale no fee basis....£299 might well be of interest though to alot of people...
Is this the beginning of estate agency cannibalising it's own business? Oh that happened about 10 years ago with Housenetwork but they haven't grown since then. I suppose Isold (Spicerhaart Tesco's thing) was really the start of the cannibalisation...but then that was always pretty half hearted.
i think this could well be the turning point for the industry at last...
@Wakey Wakey Boys and Girls -
What relevance does your tale of the folks with their 'unique, film location' bungalow have to this story?
Of course they can stir up some interest from journalists if there's a story to their house, but how does that help anyone trying to sell a standard 2-bed house with little to distinguish it from their neighbour?
There are four sales subscription services: Advertising Only - From £299, Buyer Finding - From £499, Buyer Finding Plus - From £599, Fully Managed Sale - From £899. The last one is the only one comparable with the services offered by a High Street Estate Agent.
The site doesn't actually say that the payments are monthly, whether VAT is included or what 'From' means so somewhat mis-leading. However the article above mentions that the subscriptions are monthly. I wonder if 'From' means that the subscription is based on the property value and that the above monthly subscriptions quoted are the minimum - perhaps Martin & Co could enlighten us.
Wakey Wakey yup that is difficult to combat.....most agents do free market appraisals, and know they may not get the instruction.
W so you assumed.....never a safe thing to do eh!
...and from the article above / press release -
"The franchise business charges sellers a monthly subscription whereby they pay only for the services they require. For example, if a seller wants an advertising-only package, that is all they pay for, from £299."
That suggests to me a minimum of £299 per month.... but again, I still haven't looked at their website
...and from the article above/press release -
"The franchise business charges sellers a monthly subscription whereby they pay only for the services they require. For example, if a seller wants an advertising-only package, that is all they pay for, from £299."
That suggests to me a minimum of £299 per month.... but again, I still haven't looked at their website
Gonzo, you asked - "Where have you got the idea that it is £299 or £899 per month?"
From the two figures quoted earlier in the thread, one of which suggested that 'Advertising Only' was £299, and once other options were added in, it was £899.
I haven't looked at their website at all.
Martin and Co are fighting the online Agencies at their own game; cheap deals, rent some time on the internet.
Here is another lesson read this tale and notice ho traditional Agents are giving away advice on value so vendors and virtual agents can establish the all important asking price.
http://bit.ly/SLMeOz
That is what you are up against.. Congratulate Martin and Co for having the balls to do it and also the balls to send a press release to EAT.
@W i'm a bit confused. Where have you got the idea that it is £299 or £899 per month? I looked at their payment system and it is an upfront of £299 or more depending on what you choose to buy (viewings > negs > sales and then any add ons like EPC & FSboard etc.) the total figure is a one off upfront cost and then it states there is a £39/mth payment.
Can you explain why you thought it was £899 per month!? Seems unlikely right? Unless i've missed some crazy small print!
@Patricia - have a look at some of better online agents. There are ones who offer much more flexibility and not just a huge bill upfront. So it does seem your wish has been fulfilled already.
@Patricia on 2012-10-10 14:12:26
Point taken. I was there too in '88 and the ones before!
However, in my view thing were different then in as much not much lettings. This is based on a well established 'multi branch' lettings business probably with many 'accidental' landlords so the £299 deal could work well for Martin & Co when they want to sell?
From someone who has been in the business over 30 years - do you not think that if there had been a sure fire way of earning something out of every instruction (instead of bearing all the costs of running the business until a sale is achieved) we would have thought of it by now! Agents work hard on every instruction and meet the costs in doing that, but of course not all instructions lead to sales, for a variety of reasons of course. Back in 88 just as the last recession hit, agents were talking about doing the same thing - because there were so many properties coming to the market without a hope in hell of being sold. Its just another reworking of those times I'm afraid. I am not saying its a bad idea or that it isn't a cost effective solution for both sides - its just that us Brits like the idea of someone else doing all the work for nothing and when a sale is achieved, only to pay the now 'lazy' or 'greedy' agent the absolute minimum. If we take on board that reality - who has a new and refreshing solution for this!
Ray. Good point or maybe you pay a monthly fee and cap the total expense via Martin &co..... I admit i have not looked at the M&Co T&C's. But deals are there to be done
I did advocate this type of business model for established EA's a long time ago...perhaps Mr Wilson was listening.
I can see some mileage in paying a small 'retainer' per month, but honestly - I'm totally mystified as to where the sellers with between £299 and £899 per month (+ VAT?) disposable income are going to come from......
There are obviously 'fors & against' ( a big 'for' is the established branch network with a branch in the sellers area) For some SERIOUS sellers whose asking price is not too speculative there are many who would cough up £299 for a one month to get on the major portals.... If it did not sell within that time give it to a traditional agent and AFTER ascertaining his lowest commision rate say you want a reduction of £299 and tell him why - in most cases there will be a deal. ;>)
Worth a thought!
Happy Chappy - we're not talking about merely 'paying upfront' here, we're talking about shelling out £299 or more per month, possibly £358.80 per mth if VAT figures in it.
Do you have that much to spend on hiring M & Co., on the basis that they might, or might not, sell your home, and when you can't quantify what your total outlay will be?
Fair enough, landlords with large portfolios may be better placed to write this off as a business expense, but how many regular households have this much to spare every month?
There is a difference here and I know because I have been around a bit too.
This Martin and Co offering is not a new start up business it has clients and clients with BTL portfolios. the HPC crowd have been banging on about BTL Landlords liquidating their Portfolios, who are those Landlords gong to talk to first?
Landlords looking to increase their portfolios? wham bam Wanted Ad thank you very much missus.
Who are the first to know when tenants are moving, yep letting agents. Wanted AD kerrrrrching!
Stick you head back in the sand where it is quiet and cosy and perhaps the Franchisees local to you will take pity and resist the temptation to have a nibble at your Cheese.
Martin and Co used to be a bit of a joke but Ian wilson has really shrapened up the whole operation. Those that know him respect him.
As well as the "refreshingly different" approach, they also have "friendly and experienced" staff.
Must get down there pronto before I wet my knickers.
Patricia - yes traditional EA is and will continue to thrive there is a need and a huge demand for a this service and there will continue to be.....however there is need and a demand for a different type of service and some vendors are prepared to pay up front.
@Dennis
Pardon us for being cynical my friend, but those of us that have been around a little while have seen these schemes come and go year after year right back to the property shop days of £99 up front.
The fact is that no sale no fee is easy, it comes out of your proceeds at the end of the process and only then if the agent did their job ie found you a buyer at the price you want to sell at.
That's a different proposition, especially in the current climate, to forking out a chunk of your monthly pay packet whilst constantly picking up the phone to make sure it still works due to the lack of any ringing noise coming from it.
Despite having a branches in our our area, Martin & Co are conspicuous in their absence and that's doing something which is their core market, lettings.
The oiks on the local business park with their £299 up front are doing badger all so I look forward to M&C being equally as ineffective.
Let Ros put a note on her calendar to revisit this story in 6 months and see. I know where my money is.
Dennis - Well put sir.
Most of the sellers I meet need the sale proceeds from their house to pay the fees.
Where are households going to find an extra £299, £399, whatever, per month in the current financial climate?
Honestly, ask yourselves - have you got spare cash lying around to this extent?
It just isn't on is it? martin and Co have spotted a gap between the online agents and traditional agents,
It is bonkers in this market to start up with no sale no fee at reduced commision rates as the old boy in town with a new service.
Offer something that isn't being offered at the moment and from day 1 generate additional cash.
Martin and Co didn't bitch about every Joe Blow getting into lettings when sales volumes fell out of the tree.
You boys and girls spit your venom and bile as much as you like, then sit down and work out that this is actually a sharp business decision. The have the option of no sale no fee when the market picks up and there are a few less agent on the high street. Agents that would have survived the market if they had listened to those advising Agents do offer this exact service and beat up th Online Agents. Martin and Co are paying their rent rates and staff as fixed costs and are making their money from lettings. Adding this additional service simply helps their bottom line.
Very smart Mr Wilson!
Why does traditional estate agency continue to thrive against all these cheap sites with their ridiculous claims - no sale no fee. Its the only way it works. So many 'new and freshing' ways have been tried. Vendors don't want to pay upfront. Estate Agents work much harder to achieve a sale for their client, because until they do, they don't get a single penny. Sales have slumped considerably this year (not in prime Central London but you are not likely to see multi million pounds homes marketed through these sites) - money is short for many people, the last thing a Vendor wants is to pay an unmotivated agent upfront to see his property sit on the market for months unsold.
"Sellers are regularly being told by agents to reduce their price" eh? Derr, and there was me thinking an agents job was to advise a client and exercise a duty of care to get the best price.
"Sellers are regularly being told by agents to reduce their price" part deux. An interesting conundrum because it works best for them if the property is overpriced and sits on their books for months (at a subscription of course). Where's the incentive to SELL it? Would love to know what instructions they give their valuers.
"Sellers are regularly being told by agents to reduce their price" numero tres. To benefit from the Martin model, you have to underprice in the first place to sell it quick so you sell for £10 or £20k less and save yourself a couple of grand. Smart move.
Still one musn't be too churlish, it is a groundbreaking move after all. An estate agency service where people pay up front. Goodness me, whatever next?
Colour photography is the next big thing mark my words.
There's my Troll! Good to have you back son. You have me worried though. I'm now sitting here thinking 'how am I going to prove that I'm not a little neg to an anonymous internet poster that is pretending to know me?
That’s just ruined my day.
A monthly subscription for each property listed falls at the first hurdle.
Think about it. What is the role of an estate agent ? To sell the property quickly for the highest price.
So what is the incentive for an agent to sell the property quickly and for the highest price under this type of sales contract ? None whatsoever.
Why would any seller pay an estate agent to benefit from the property taking longer to sell ? Especially in a market which is slow anyway...
This business model gives the agent greater rewards for doing a poorer job... Which is probably exactly why it suits a franchise like Martin & Co...
I like the chart on their website that offers the service "draw up a sales agreement". What they mean is they will send a proforma letter to your solicitor who will then draw up a contract.
Why so negative guys, are you that threatened, “300 years behind the times” is a stupid statement even for the likes of a little neg like Wardy, I bet you would like their business Wardy, but then again you have done nothing but work for others.
If this is a monthly subscription as stated, the fully marketed package would cost £899 per month. Properties take on average 4 to 6 months to sell so, assuming 4 months, the cost would be £3596.00.
If an Estate Agent charges a fee of 1.5%, a property sold for £150,000 would attract a fee of £2250 plus VAT irrespective of how long the property took to sell (no mention of VAT on the Martin & Co site).
The figures only add up if the sale is exceptionally quick which is unlikely in the present market.
Almost every new estate agent uses the phrase "refreshingly different approach" or "fresh approach"... So it's very common and over-used, not quite 1700's Wardy but i agree with your point.
Not sure about Ian Wilson's statement about pricing realistically when our local M & Co branch has an over-priced 2 bed flat @ £220k showing a yield of 4.91%... not exactly what an investor is looking for and certainly over-priced for a home-buyer in that block.
Because every single time someone lauches a some sort of estate agency product it becomes 'a refreshingly differnt approach'
I can almost see the leaflet with a macro picture of a lemon on it.
Its boring.
Wardy, please explain why he is 300 years behind the times?
'We decided that estate agency would benefit from a refreshingly different approach.'
Comments like that prove that this guy is about 300 years behind the times.