A new campaign has been launched by Rightmove, telling sellers to get real about house prices.
It also encourages them to work with their agent to get their properties sold.
Rightmove director Miles Shipside said: “This campaign is aimed at educating the millions of current and prospective sellers who visit Rightmove each month about the realities of the current property market.
“It’s so important to price and present a property appropriately in order to have the edge in getting it sold, and we’re looking to show sellers how working with a Rightmove member agent can really help with this.”
Rightmove’s July House Price Index revealed that 70% of properties brought to market in the first six months of 2011 were still up for sale.
Despite so many properties not selling, asking prices have risen all year until this month.
Rightmove is looking to educate sellers via a campaign landing page with an informative video guide. It will also be supporting the campaign with radio and online advertising.
Shipside added: “There seems to be a mismatch at the moment between seller expectations and the realities of the current property market.
“Agents tell us that their two main challenges are motivating sellers to price realistically and attracting the right new instructions. Rightmove will be looking to assist with both these issues over the next three months.”
As part of the campaign, Rightmove is providing its membership of sales and lettings agents with some of its online property advertising products for free.
The products give increased exposure around the Rightmove website and can be resold on to potential vendors and landlords, or factored into the agent’s marketing offers.
Rightmove is currently in the process of contacting each member agent with full details about the campaign, and information about the products being credited to their account.
Shipside said: “Rightmove’s advertising products are being used very effectively by agents in their client-facing activities; as instruction winning incentives; as tools for encouraging price reductions in sales; and as rewards for valued clients and landlords in lettings.
“They can also be used as straightforward sell-on products which generate a profit for the agent. We hope that providing these products free to agents during the course of the campaign will help them capitalise on the increased consumer interest that the campaign will generate.”
If you haven’t seen the new campaign page, take a look – and check out some of the comments, too, as they might not be quite what Rightmove expected.
One person says that she cut her asking price against her agents’ wishes and comments: “Estate agents have had it too good for too long and want to become more realistic in terms of what price can be achieved in the present financial situation.”
Another says that although their agent showed some people around the house, “in the end it was us that sold our house; obviously we knew the house better than the estate agent. LOL!”
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/sell-my-house-fast/
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Comments
CTW: You've used those big words again!! Keep it simple - I'm a Northerner!!
Thankfully, I got the bit when you said you agree with my way of thinking... ;o)
Like you, I fully appreciate that Agents are not a charitable organisation and require income greater than expenditure in order to remain open for business. As an ex-Agent (and one who rode the wave of the last recession...) I know this as well as many who post here...
Unfortunately, many vendors would see it differently - especially those opportunists who simply dip toes in water as it is in the main 'free' to do so. That being said, it is the Agent's duty to work in their clients' best interests - and some of the posts I read on this site frankly make me question whether that is happening!
During my Agency days, I inherited a negotiator who would rather spend half an hour on the phone to a vendor chipping at their price expectations than ring up the prospective buyer and ask for an increase! Needless to say (and thankfully...), she didn't stay long when I started sitting in on her 'negotiations'...
I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph of the first response. The question is - what reasoning would they give?
(btw - count me in for that meet-up with rant in 2013. I'd love to buy him a drink - AND SELL HIM A HOUSE!!)
Anon: Your comment relating to the "3D's" and in particular reposessions raises the point that there are a number of those out there - and I am talking AGENTS as well as prospective buyers - who would welcome a massive glut of these sales with welcome arms. This is sad to think that there are people champing at the bit to benefit from the misfortune of others. Maybe if the rules relating to repo sales were changed, so that it was compulsory that the new owner was required to pay off the defaulting borrower's balance before making a personal profit, then these sales wouldn't look as attractive to the 'pwoperdee developers' who snap them up; paint the walls babysick beige - and make £30k profit to boot...
Me - I'm simply waiting for the world to declare itself bankrupt and then I'll buy Buckingham Palace at a repo auction for six quid. If my suggestion is adopted, and I am empowered to pay off 'Her' outstanding balance, I'll worry about that later while enjoying the comfort of my new home! :o)
There are two assumptions in the most recent points of this (fascinating) discussion that I don't think are watertight.
Firstly thatpPeople who have bought since say 2004 are on the whole going to be in real danger of negative equity if they sell know. If house prices drop, then yes, they are very unlikely to sell.
However, there are many more vendors out there that would not suffer negative equity if they sold now. They just don't need to sell.
At the same time, divorce, debt and deaths do keep the market moving even when transactions are minimal. The continuing squeeze on household finances is, in my opinion, likely to see repossessions climb higher or more people seeking to downsize.
Secondly, interest rates are presently low, but I'm not convinced that is going to continue indefinitely. External developments, including the break up of the Euro currency, a lack of agreement on the US debt ceiling, runaway inflation in the UK, a run on Sterling, needing to attract overseas funds to finance this country's debts etc are all scenarios which could see UK interest rates raised. That would also have a large impact on the number of forced sellers.
HI PeeBee,
To answer your points......
Point 1:
Do you feel that the wrong mindset is being adopted here? That Agents, instead of concentrating on their income by volume, should instead knuckle down to significantly lower volumes with Fee structures revised to compensate for the lower turnover?
Answer 1:
Yes, absolutely. Agents are 100% wrong to even countenance price cuts as a solution for returning volumes, and any significant market wide cutting of prices will end up reducing both volumes and revenue for agencies.
There is no shortage of housing need, nor of desire to buy, nor of ability to service the debt. The sole limiting factor for converting need, desire and ability to effective demand is that of mortgage rationing.
Banks don't have the money to lend any more than they are doing today. They are constantly varying the eligibility criteria, credit scoring, deposit levels, etc, to shrink the pool of borrowers to match available funding.
To put it in perspective, if 250,000 FTB-s showed up tomorrow with perfect credit scores and 25% deposits, the banks would have absolutely no choice but to move the goal posts yet again to further shrink the pool of borrowers, as they simply could not fund that many mortgages.
Point 2-
As far as I can see, knocking 10%, 20% or whatever off prices will not have the effect that people are wishing for. Many prospective sellers will be unable to even consider selling due to negative or no equity issues. Buyers will be reluctant to buy for fear (or expectancy...) of prices falling further. So... by my reckoning there will be less cake, less buyers - and LESS potential Fee income for Agents to scrabble over.
Answer 2-
Absolutely correct again. Classic economic theory shows us that price is set where supply and demand intersect, and that invariably lowering prices will lower supply until a market reaches equilibrium.
Falling prices will reduce supply to the market, exactly as we saw in 2008. Lower supply = lower volumes of listings, and lower volume of sales.
Now whilst it is possible for any individual agent to increase volume by reducing prices, you are not stimulating the wider market by doing so, just stealing market share from others.
The end result of all agents or vendors doing the same can be nothing other than falling levels of transactions and supply drying up until prices start rising again.
A repeat of the ultra-low volumes of late 08 and early 09 are the last thing any agency can cope with at the moment, but they're the inevitable result of prices falling on a market wide level.
And Miles at Rightmove should know this full well.
Frankly, anyone that advocates falling prices in an effort to stimulate volume knows nothing about economics..... (Which is as polite a way as I can think of for saying he's a blithering idiot for even thinking about it.)
If agents need volume to survive, then by advocating price falls they're signing their own execution order. The absolutely inevitable consequence of falling prices will be listings drying up and sales volumes plummeting.
As has been explained in my earlier posts, the ONLY way to increase volume by any significant margin is to increase mortgage lending. Agents should spend their time lobbying government to get lending moving again rather than wasting time on price cutting gimmicks that are doomed to failure.
RnR
Fair point that we may have to agree to disagree on this one. But I'll come back and reply to your specific questions later, as I do hate to leave a query hanging out there unanswered.
Re the moniker, no particular reason for "Concerned of Tunbridge Wells". It could just as easily have been "Twigs in a Vase Arranger", "Evil Nimby Boomer", or even "Proud owner of a crumbling pile of bricks".
In the unlikely event you still haven't caught on, all are p1sstakes based on commonly held misconceptions amongst your fellow crashaholics. ;)
Anyway, a drink in 2013 sounds good to me. I'll pop back in now and again to see how you're getting on with convincing the EA fraternity to instigate a house price crash for you.
Blimey, Sibley's... - that phrase was so early on in CTW's postings that I'd completely forgotten it! Thanks for reminding me, though - chance for a PeeBee rantlet... ;o)
Concerned - like you I see/hear/read many Agents now openly welcoming the prospect of reducing prices in order to oil the wheels of industry.
The same phrase is used time after time - "We (Agents) need volume to survive."
Do you feel that the wrong mindset is being adopted here? That Agents, instead of concentrating on their income by volume, should instead knuckle down to significantly lower volumes with Fee structures revised to compensate for the lower turnover?
As far as I can see, knocking 10%, 20% or whatever off prices will not have the effect that people are wishing for. Many prospective sellers will be unable to even consider selling due to negative or no equity issues. Buyers will be reluctant to buy for fear (or expectancy...) of prices falling further. So... by my reckoning there will be less cake, less buyers - and LESS potential Fee income for Agents to scrabble over.
By the way - you and rant are having an amazing exchange of views, may I say. You both lost me in the first paragraph of your opening volleys - but that's okay. I'll try to follow as much of it as I can.
In 33 years of working in the property industry I haven't studied economics, demographics, heiroglyphics or supersonics the way you obviously have. Just buyers and sellers - and I've been able so far to read them pretty well.
Okay - there are the exceptions to the rule - but both still want to play, as far as I can see. Trouble is, without a better, more level playing field, the game simply won't flow.
And as long as people try to build new walls in the way of progress, then the field ain't ever going to be level - is it?
"And an unholy alliance being formed over here between crashaholics and EA's."
Hardly CTW, a consensus maybe but hardly a meeting of minds.
CTW - why are you "concerned" by the way?
List of my questions you haven't answered:
Why are the FSA trying to ban self-cert mortgages?
Why didn't demographics prevent the 2008 - 09 falls in prices?
How do demographics explain the fact that Manchester prices are down 10% in the last year?
Not sure where you are getting the 11% decline from?
Halifax house prices:
Peak - Aug 2007: £199,770
Jun 2011: £163,049
Decline: 18.5% (pushing 25% in real terms)
Nationwide
Peak (in real terms) - Q3 2007: £209.045
Q2 2011: £166,764
Decline: 20%
Both these figures are significantly more if the influence of foreigi buyers snapping up London property through the devalued Pound is taken into consideration.
Ireland is a member of the EU and has far less flexibility on its monetary policy. They cannot print £200,000,000,000 of funny money and throw it at asset prices as has been done in the UK.
Having said all that, how about we call this quits? Don't get me wrong - I am appreciating the informed debate. However, you've got your opinions, I'm guessing based on considerable more years than I have, which say demographics have been the main driver behind the recent boom in prices. In response I'll say that such experiences may have made you less open to the idea of something new coming into play here, which in this case is the masses of cheap credit. But then I'm a young upstart...
Lets meet down the pub in 2013 to see who was right re where house prices ended up. The loser has to get the first drink in...
RnR, you haven't answered ANY of my questions, I've made the effort to address each and every one of your points in some detail.
Moving on though..... You seem to think it's all about lax lending
Sure, it played a part, and that part is measurable. We withdrew 70% of credit and prices are now 11% below peak. That's how much of the boom was attributable to lending standards. The rest was down to a good old fashioned supply shortage.
Think about this for a second.... 70% of mortgage funding was withdrawn, we had a recession, global financial crisis, rising unemployment, etc. And prices are just 11% below peak.
If there wasn't a massive supply shortage to hold prices up, we'd have fallen off a cliff, just like Ireland and the USA. They also had super low interest rates, bailouts, liquidity support, etc. But their prices fell off a cliff and ours didn't.
You can't explain why with your credit theory.... Hence why you keep avoiding it.
As for inflation, most of the current rate of inflation is now down to tax rises, not devaluation. CPI-Y and CPI-CT are only marginally above target, at around 2.8% or so. When the commodities price spike and VAT rises roll off in Q1 next year, inflation will fall to target. Base rates are staying low for years to come, mark my words.
And about base rates, King has already outlined the three conditions under which the BOE see a likelyhood for base rates rising to the Treasury select committee. They are.....
1. Unemployment falling
2. A narrowing of margins between base rates and consumer lending rates.
3. Stronger economic growth
Again, if you think house prices will fall under those conditions then good luck to you, you're going to need it. ;)
CTW - Where is the money going to come from to push up house prices? Have you been following economic news recently???
If interest rates stay low, UK households will continue to take a massive hit through imported inflation. Hardly good for people trying to save a deposit or for house affordability generally. If interest rates go up, then the rotting edifice of the bubble is going to come crashing down. Either way, house prices will have to come down.
If house prices somehow stay high (they're falling in much of the country as it is), the stand off will continue. Since the concept of a forced seller is far more realistic than the idea of a forced buyer, prices will be set by DDD sales. Again, this will drive prices lower.
I accept that demographics have played a major part in previous housing booms and bust. They may well do in future cycles too. However, no analysis of the present cycle can ignore the massive impact of cheap credit and reckless lending. Or are you going to suggest that house prices tripled in a decade due to a bulge in one age of the population and the fact that the banks needed bailouts at the same time is a mere coincidence?
And before you say I haven't answered all your questions, you seem to rather adept at avoiding lots of mine ; )
RnR
The plural of data is not anecdotal.
You've quoted a Sky report showing 15 out of 16 agents did not condone liar loans in 2008.
I've asked you to provide data showing anything other than a minority of self cert loans had inflated income. You've failed to do so.
I've also noted the difference between self cert and fast track. You've failed to address it, and continue falsely quoting the 40% figure as self cert only.
We're not off to a very good start here, are we?
Next, on to Australia.... The mining boom is relatively recent and does not explain why prices have remained above 3.5 times income for 25 years. Not to mention mining is less than 5% of Australian GDP, and the effects are localised to just a few areas, and certainly not the south eastern corner (Sydney/Melbourne) where houses are most expensive. Try again.
On credit, you point out that prices in Ireland fell 50% after credit was withdrawn, yet credit was also withdrawn here, and prices are down just 11% from peak. You refuse to consider the difference in housing supply as the only possible explanation for why. Once again, Ireland has 17% of houses empty and in excess of a 2 decade supply from the existing surplus. We have just 3% of houses empty, an existing shortage, population growing at record levels and house building at record lows.
Stevie Wonder could see the difference.
Re HPC and Priced Out.... Well, good luck with that. There are just a few hundred active posters on HPC, and a few dozen active people in priced out. There is also the now legendary HPC backed "Facebook buyers strike" group. Which has managed to gather just a few hundred members in almost 2 years. Almost all of whom are hpc regulars. A bit embarrassing for an attempt to take your little movement mainstream, don't you think?
Yet you really think a "movement" of that size can impact government policy?
Seriously?
Anyone that knows the slightest thing about this issue knows full well that these desperate attempts to spam comment sections of newspapers and websites are driven by a few hundred people who have gambled and lost on a house price crash of significant margin taking place.
And in the meantime, half a million or so potential FTB-s have been locked out of the market by mortgage rationing. These people know full well that rent is more expensive than mortgage interest, and want to stop enriching their landlords right away. The pressure to get lending moving again is building and will be impossible for the government to resist much longer. Expect big progress on this front before the next election, because THAT is the issue that will define the next decade. The housing shortage, and mortgage famine.
And finally, demographics. We're currently in the trough between two generational bulges of FTB age people. The low point is from 2007 to 2012. Where we are now....
From 2013 onwards, it starts to climb rapidly..
If you really think more people of FTB age fighting for housing when housing supply is at the lowest in over a century is going to make prices fall, well then, good luck to you.
To the chap who replied to my post (but was too embarassed to add his name to his post which quite frankly is just plain bad manners):
...I was agreeing with Anonymous Coward's comments about buyers and sellers expectations...not about rental incomes etc.
And I agree, we don't want the 'public to conclude we're all thick'...so before you post a comment like that please, please check your spelling and don't mix up the words 'no' with 'know'...we don't want the public thinking we're thick do we?
CTW - Here's a 2008 report from Sky News highlighting the prevalence of liars loans:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky-News-Archive/Article/20080641317257
If there is no problem with them, why are the FSA trying to ban them?
http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/2010/07/certification-mortgages-self
Australia's house price boom and indeed economy is supported by a massive growth in natural resource exports to China.
The credit to support UK house prices has been withdrawn. House prices have not yet come down because interest rates have been slashed to 300 year lows, limiting the number of forced sellers. Transactions have however collapsed (measured in other currencies and gold, UK house prices have already crashed). Low interest rates have devalued the Pound and seen a flurry overseas buyers drawn into the London market. Strip London out from national indices and the house price crash comes into focus much more.
I have yet to come across a movement from the younger generation screaming for more 125% loans. There are plenty of them that follow HPC, Priced Out and other such movements however.
If current house prices are sustainable, why are lower valuations coming back and leading to increasing numbers of chains breaking down?
The construction boom in Ireland was not responsible for house prices collapsing there. The bursting of the credit bubble was.
The current government has identified UK house prices as having been in a bubble. Indeed, across the UK as a whole, they are down over 25% in real terms since the 2007 peak. Outside London, price falls are gathering speed - down 10% in the last year in Manchester. In Northern Ireland down 50% from peak.
Demographics have provided little support to prices in those regions and I doubt they will do so until the excesses of cheap credit are flushed out of the system. Demographics also did little to stop the fastest rate of house price falls this country has ever seen when interest rates were still at 5% in the immiediate aftermath of the credit crunch.
RnR
Regarding 40% of mortgages being self cert, it's already been explained to you they weren't. That figure includes Fast track, which is vastly different to self cert. And nobody has yet provided a single iota of proof that self cert income figures were meaningfully inflated in anything other than a minority of cases. I'd suggest you provide some research proving that the majority of self cert incomes were inflated if you wish to continue making the assertion.
Re housing being a pyramid, there is no such thing. The best analogy by far is that housing is a hosepipe, with pressure bulges making their way down the pipe as the different generations pass through. Ultimately however, ALL housing wealth is recycled to future generations and always will be unless we find a way to abolish death.
Re the 80's and 90's, prices then did not need to rise to today's levels as the housing shortage was nowhere near as severe. As for whether or not a modern society can support house prices at or beyond 3.5 times household income, the answer is certainly yes. The closest country to the UK in terms of growing population and lack of house building is Australia.... The numbers are almost identical in fact, and their prices have remained at or above 3.5 times income for the last 2 decades, even in their corrections. And that's with higher interest rates and higher taxation.
Re Interest rates, you don't need to look much further than the yield curve for gilts to see where UK base rates are likely to be over the next couple of decades. It's virtually impossible that we'll see 5% base rates again in the term of any mortgage taken out today. And even the BOE has stated clearly they expect the new neutrality point for base rates (where rates above destroy demand and rates below stimulate demand) to be in the area of 3% moving forwards, versus the 6% it was in the last decade.
Re credit, the reason you haven't read that anywhere in my post was because it is not the primary reason for house prices rising to the levels they are at. The housing shortage is the primary reason for UK prices being high. We withdrew 70% of mortgage funding from the market, yet prices remain at 11% below peak. Whereas other countries with a housing surplus and similar credit conditions (Ireland, USA) have house prices now 38% and 48% below peak respectively. A point I note you failed to address from my earlier post.
Re 80K approvals, I agree that the figure most consistently quoted is 80,000 to 100,000 approvals a month are required for a stable market. But again, I'll remind you that those averages are based on past history, with lower population than today. An increasing population requires more of everything, more houses, more mortgage funding, higher levels of approvals.
Re population growth, we're on track to hit 70,000,000 people by 2026. Only part of this is through immigration however, and the balance is through natural change. But in terms of houses, even if net migration was zero, we'd still need to build 50% more houses than we did last year just to keep up with new household formation.
Re fruit-pickers, you're quite right. They won't be buying 3 bed semi detached houses. They will however be renting 3 bed houses, and giving the landlord an exceptional yield as they squeeze 4 people into a 3 bed house. Which is of course the only option when we only build a third or so of the houses we need to keep up with population growth, as happened last year.
Re politics, you're a good 15 years out with your calculations, so more like 30 years from now. By which time I'll be beyond caring.
But long before that happens there will be the most almighty pressure for the government to get lending moving again.... The current mortgage rationing is forcing a generation of FTB-s to enrich their landlords instead, as rents are now more expensive than mortgage interest in 85% of the UK. And there is deep unrest building around that issue.
But let's be clear, these are not a "priced out" generation, they're a "mortgage excluded" generation.
The cost of buying a house, in terms of average mortgage payment as a percentage of after tax income, is lower today than the long term average and around half what it was in 1990. And that's with mortgages at close to 5%, not based on some imaginary 0.5% nonsense.
Now I would appreciate, in the interest of balance, if you'd answer instead of ignoring the points I raised earlier about demographics, housing shortage, comparable price falls between nations, etc etc etc.
CTW - Thanks for taking the time to reply and keeping it civil...
Needless to say, I disagree with a lot of your thoughts. No surprise there really ; )
I'd be interested to know why you think the 40% of mortgages taken out at the bubble's peak being self-cert had little to do with people lying about their income. Me thinks that was the only way many people could afford those prices and the banks, happy to see another layer added to the pyramid, complied.
If, as you suggest, house prices can naturally rise to three and a bit times household income, why didn't that happen in the 80s or 90s? Women certainly entered the workforce in significant numbers before the last decade's house price bubble.
You also seem to be assuming that today's emergency level of interest rates is going to continue or at least remain low for anyone taking out a 25 year mortgage today. That's optimistic at best.
I haven't read anywhere in your post that the reason prices went up so much was due to the amount of credit being thrown at the housing market. The banks aren't lending at the levels they were, because that lead to them needing govt bailouts. Surely house prices will trend downwards in response to that withdrawal of cheap credit?
The figure of 80,000 mortgage approvals is one quoted by the industry, so you'd need to discuss that further with them. A few supporting links:
http://www.estateagenttoday.co.uk/news_features/Mortgage-approvals-fall-to-record-low-says-Bank-of-England
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/uk-mortgage-approvals-slip-to-a-six-month-low-1.1058251
You are right that population has been increasing. However, much of that has been immigration from East Europe. As of May this year, those workers can now legally find employment across the EU (and not just the three or so countries that welcomed them before). They are much more likley to head or relocate to Germany, where there are more jobs, it is closer to their countries of origin and where housing costs don't eat into so much of their salary. All, in all, I don't see Slovakian fruitpickers taking up the slack in demand for the UK's overpriced three bed semis...
In the next ten to fifteen years, the priced-out generation are going to start taking over the reins of power. Looking into the tea leaves, I predict they will be among the most anti house price inflation politicians this country has ever seen. At the first signs of house price rises above inflation, they are likely to introduce measure after measure and tax after tax to prevent it taking off. They are also likely to see previous generations' unearned equity as a source of wealth should any snatch be needed to support the public coffers. These actions will be widely supported by those beneath them - the next generation of FTBs already encumbered with five figures of university debt...
@Concerned of Tunbridge Wells
Of course in 20 years time things will look different, no one is arguing that point.
Just out of interest where is the financing going to come from to support further house price gains?
Why will interest rates not raise above 5%?
FYI, there are over 1 million empty houses see: emptyhomes.com for more info on this.
RnR
Just to correct a few of your points....
40% of loans were not "self cert", that stat includes those which were fast tracked, but that is not the same thing at all. For example, if I go to my high street bank and apply for a mortgage, the advisor will access my account on the screen, and can see clearly the history of my pay being deposited from my company. I don't need to then provide payslips, that would be pointless. That's a fast-track loan, but it's not a liar loan by any means.
There is no evidence that anything other than a minority of the self cert or fast track loans showed significant variances to income in reality. Which is not to say there may not have been a variance to declared income for HMRC purposes, but that;'s a different thing entirely.
80,000 mortgages a month cannot by definition be the level that shows a stable market, as growing population demands an increasing level of transactions to maintain stability.
Ireland and the USA are completely different markets to the UK, with significant housing surpluses. The UK has a significant and worsening shortage. Hence the difference in performance despite ZIRP, QE, banks bailouts, help for homeowners, etc in all three markets.
Housing Vacancy rates:
Ireland- 17% and rising
USA- 13% and rising
UK- 3% and falling
To put it in perspective, if Ireland housed every single person on it's state housing waiting lists in empty properties today, it would still have a 23 year supply of housing at current projected growth rates.
Median household income in the UK is indeed around 34K, however the lowest earning 30% of households have never been house buyers. Owner occupation never crossed 70%. So you can pretty much completely exclude the bottom two quintiles of the household income distribution as these are almost entirely composed of pensioners and the lowest paid in society, two groups that almost never buy houses.
In layman's terms then, the income of actual house buyers starts at slightly below the median. And the average income of the top three quintiles (so the actual house buying population) is closer to 55K than to 35K.
SO whilst I reject the notion that the mortgage earnings multiple today should be 3.5 times income, as that multiple was set in a time of double digit interest rates versus today when we may never see 5% base rates again....... Just to humour you I'll play along.
3.5 times 55K is 192K, which is almost exactly the price at peak. No wonder then that repossessions and arrears are so much lower this time around than in the 90's.
And all of that is before we get into record high population growth, record low house building, soaring rental yields that are drawing in investment capital to replace FTB-s, etc etc etc, which should have driven house prices far higher, and certainly will once any semblance of normal lending returns.
Of course, we haven't even discussed demographics yet, or the fact that we're currently in a trough between 2 generations, and that the biggest generation of youngsters in history, bigger even than the boomers, starts to hit FTB age in 2013 and peaks in 2025 or so, at levels nearly 50% higher than today. ANd that it will be past 2030 before people in their early 30's have as few competitors for housing as they do today.
You think this market is dead?
I wager you'll look back at this time in 20 years and see it for what it is..... Nothing but a bear trap in a property megacycle.
CTW - Interesting post, which I always appreciate.
I'm not sure why you've quoted 2006 - 07 levels as the benchmark here though? Those were the peak years of the bubble and 40% of all mortgages approved in those two years were liar loans (self-certs). Hardly a reasonable starting point to define 'normal'? The market was also driven by a lot of speculation and greed during those two years, to a far greater extent than in the past.
Historically, 80,000 mortgages per month has been regarded as the figure which defines a stable market, rather than 100,000 (actually '06 - '07 averages out at 111,000 per month). So, if we say banks cannot lend any more than today and assuming an average 75% LTV, then to reach 80,000 mortgage approvals per month this would require an average house price of about £95,000. That would need further nominal falls in price of around 40% from here.
Some may consider that scenario to be extremely unlikely. However, this has to be put into the context of house prices recently tripling over a decade. Four years ago, EAs in parts of the USA and Northern Ireland would have dismissed price falls of 50%, which have since come to pass. Given that the average household income in the UK is around 34K, then an average house price of 95K doesn't sound so far fetched either.
If it takes five years for the market to revert to 80,000 mortgage approvals per month, by that point £95K may well be £120K in real terms. So, this could point to the the average UK house price in 2016, in nominal terms being £120K.
(note - I am not saying that house prices are going to fall to these levels, but trying to show that this would need to be the average price if lending quantities remain fixed and 80,000 mortgages were loaned each month).
Banks are not going to start lending at 2007 levels for some time. The global economic environment is dire.
Choppy waters ahead in the housing market for quite a while i think.
Desperation setting in over at Rightmove Towers then.....
And an unholy alliance being formed over here between crashaholics and EA's.
The fact is that dropping prices WILL NOT "get the market moving". It may let some of you steal some business from others, but TOTAL market volumes will barely move.
The problem is now, and always has been, mortgage rationing.
Banks are only lending enough money each month to satisfy around 35% of the volume levels from 2006/2007, because that's all the money they have to lend.
If prices fall another 10% on average, volumes will increase to 38.5% of 2007 levels. If they fall 20% from here, you're talking 42% of 2007 levels.
If this industry wants to survive in a form anything like it was prior to the credit crunch, you all need to be lobbying as hard and as wide as you can to get mortgage lending back to historical levels of 100,000 mortgages plus a month.
Not advocating price falls, which as we have all seen in 2008, will do the opposite, resulting in further lending contraction and even fewer mortgages being made available. And fewer property sales completing.
I've been following the Austrian Economist movement for last 6 years. Originally attracted by the great speeches of Ron Paul.
Their predictions, arguments has been spot on especially about the housing bubble, bank failures, credit crunch and sovereign debt crisis.
They are constantly devaluing the Keynesian view especially on low interest rates which is ruining our economy.
The Austrians have given me the faith to hold out buying overpriced property. Instead to save a bigger deposit buying gold and silver to protect against inflation.
Ron Paul for President 2012
"mainstream economic experts...[snip]... morons should be locked up instead of being involved in finance. "
Could not agree more.
@Austrian Economist
Point taken. I'd forgotten about Peter Schiff - anyone on here who has any faith in anything the (let's call them) mainstream economic experts have to say - look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw
Some of those morons should be locked up instead of being involved in finance.
As one of them said 'I think the Dow will go to 16000' - they have NO IDEA yet people invest money with them. It's enough to make you weep.
@Mark Wadsworth
'What are Baby Boomers supposed to do now? Go out and work?'
Once upon a time we were hippies - going to change the world and everything! Most of my contemporaries - and I very much include myself in this observation - have worked our nuts off all our lives. My dad's generation seemed to have got things fairly well sorted out - a 35 hour week was becoming common at one time in the 70s.
But my generation seems to have decided that a 50 to 60 hour week - and 1hr plus commutes each way - and working in the study in the evening preparing for meetings, answering emails blah blah is the way to go. We have screwed things up monumentally - but being lazy is not one of our problems.
Excellent post F F-S
Coming a bit late to this but I'm all with Shipside's gallant efforts to get a bit of realism into the thick heads of vendors (who, as pointed out below, strangely and suddenly seem remarkably less thick headed when making a purchase ...).
I just wish he'd made this pronouncement earlier in the year rather than 5 minutes before the summer slowdown, might have had some useful impact in volumes earlier in the year.
My continuing robust approach in refusing to indulge fantasy asking prices is paying off and I've been pretty busy .. new vendors have been viewing and selling well above the general run rate in my area, while some motivated selllers sold a bag of nonsense first time round are coming on with me now after they sack the idiot that sweet talked them into signing up first time round.
The story quoted below about the woman who had to fight to be 'allowed' to reduce their price rings true for me, I've had a several of sellers tell me that now. No wonder the public has quite such a low opinion of our profession.
In the meantime, I'm quite happy for the wost of the greedy fantasists to waste my competitors' time and money rather than mine.
Only a decent drop in prices will unblock this market and get things moving again. Everybody knows this, but there are still quite a few people out there desperately refusing to acknowledge the truth - including quite a few in our profession - mainly because their BTL portfolios will be in catastrophic trouble if prices fall to the sort of levels that to my mind seem inevitable.
Sorry guys (and gals) but you can't deny reality forever.
I think it is disgusting that Estate Agents can no longer magic money out of young people's pockets to fund the lifestyles of Baby Boomers. What are Baby Boomers supposed to do now? Go out and work? Cut back on luxuries? How very dare you!
Instead of talking down prices, why not continue the splendid brainwashing exercise that worked so well until 2007 to 2008?
Look straight into my eyes and repeat after more "You can't go wrong with bricks and mortar. House prices can only go up in the long run. It's a long term investment for your and your children's future." and then when they fall into a trance, smash them over the head and steal their wallets.
Dear Mike Wilson-
Sir, while I respect your opinion as you have expressed on here many times, on this you are not correct. You may have been aware of them post the crash, but they were making the claim before. Here is a link to a popular book by Peter Schiff:
http://www.amazon.com/Crash-Proof-Profit-Economic-Collapse/dp/0470043601 Written two years before the collapses he calls how and why. Also trawl through the old publications and articles online by the Von misses society, The Cato institute and in the UK, the Institute of Economic Affairs.
it was known what was going to happen, and they are also calling what is going to happen next. Much of it I am sure you would agree with.
@Mike
I agree with the "its all relative bit" I have been promoting that for months. If not years.
To be fair I have just decided to look at the video....and to be honest all that video tells me is - they are not selling enough add ons at RM, and they think if they convince vendors that their house should be a premium listing or featured home of the week then it will sell. Thus getting vendors to insist that their agent uses add ons to help sell their home.
He is right prices need addressing on the whole, but I just dont pay RM to tell vendors that add ons will help the property sell, it would have carried more weight like you say had he sat there with a graph showing what you loose, you can save and maybe even save a bit more. With nothing mentioned about the features bit, which is for his self gain only and what ever way you dress it is the reason for that video!
@Austrian Economist
'Actually many of the right kind of economists did exactly predict the crash and also why it would happen. These are the economists of the Austrian school, who follow the work of Von Misses and Karl Menger'
Thanks for the info on the Austrian school - what made you think I was unaware of Von Mises and his crew - and the difference between them and the devotees of Keynes?
I watched in wonder throughout the late 90s and then more particularly after 9/11 when base rate was 'slashed to 3.5% (at that time a 50 year low which was widely predicted to produce armageddon) as the UK consumer took on more and more debt.
I watched in wonder as the broad money supply increased by an average of 14% a year - year on year between about 2000 and 2007. (Of course a 14% increase in money supply will double the money supply in less than 6 years.) And I kept wondering 'when is someone going to raise the issue of this mad growth in consumer debt?
Well, to be fair, one man did. Vince Cable no less. In 2003 he warned Gordon Brown in parliament that consumer debt was growing to dangerous levels. Brown laughed in his face and said 'I think I know a bit more about running an economy than the honourable gentleman.' Well, of course, history has already shown that what Brown knew about running an economy could have been written on the back of a postage stamp in 27 languages.
But, what of the Austrian school economists? The silence throughout those years was deafening. Only after the credit crunch did they step into the limelight and tell us where we'd gone wrong. Like most economists - they are great with hindsight and, like most economists - as useful as a chocolate teapot.
@Ric
'I agree, the message needs putting out BUT the flip side for me is, you can not campaign to RM vendors without undermining the entire market and sending the wrong message to the buyers. (or atleast a message to the buyers that any agent would not thank RM for sending) '
Surely that is exactly the right message to send to buyers who, let's face it, either cannot afford to buy at the current prices or there is no-one around at the bottom of chains to get things started.
If a vendor goes on at 400k and gets offers at 350k - vendors that actually want to sell - will soon start thinking about dropping their price.
From my point of view (and I'm a homeowner who wants prices to go down (I am unique and, therefore, 'special')). What would have been really good is if old Miles had actually explained - perhaps with the aid of a graphic or two - that selling and buying at lower prices is good for everyone - apart from banksters and the baby boomers selling up to retire.
Too late Miles me ol' son; a decade of property porn, 'my home is my pension', 'i've made 100k for doing nothing', not to mention bullish RM reports, have created a monster.
While such a campaign is welcome, I doubt many vendors will be convinced that their home is worth less then they believe.
Nicholas Court? a judge on the panel of the PPS software awards, judging Property management software but who admits he doesn't do lettings. He sounds qualified to comment!
Does anyone know who he is? he isn't in Ros's list of who's who and quite rarely for these times a Google search doesn't throw up a Linkedin , Facebook or 192 result.
Wardy – I have not deleted your posts this week, so I will look into this.
I very rarely delete posts. I always look at requests (not many) to deletethem if someone thinks they are offensive, but don't always agree that they are.
When I do delete posts, it is because they are libellous, abusive or contain bad language, or because they are from someone passing themselves off as another person. Fortunately, as I say, these are rare occurrences.
Wardy - I echo PeeBee. What's done is done. Stick with the channel.
I think the nonsense posts are much more of a reason to stop with this site, not the censor on this occasion - I am referring to petty, spiteful and childish comments (for the sake of comments/digs) from several agents, not the HPC crowd (where the majority are nice bunch to talk to).
"The real trouble is that portals are trying to offer too much"
You don't have to look too far to see Rightmove described as the Online Estate Agency, All too soon we will all be mere worker ants feeding Miles (The Queen)
Miles is smarter than you lot, you are all paying (lots) for him to nick your business
It is understandable that if a site sponsor is paying a fair old whack to say something that is blatently untrue then it is abit unfair for someone to pop up and debunk the lies for nothing.
Perhaps Nat could introduce a donate page which allows freedom of speech in return for a few quid. (Oxymoron?)
The youtube video of Letmc whooping Team Vebra for PPS award was a good example. Why should Letmc get good publicity for nothing off the back of Tim Summerly's annual post?
Go and find the video, Youtube search "Letmc" "PPS award" a classic funny for a wet Friday (Pun intended)
Stop being such a drama queen, Nobody cares that your post got censored. We're all (most) adults here and we all know the nature of business.
We also know that there's no way you're going to leave since you would have 23 hours a day to do nothing.
Interstingly this morning I listed a house where I mentioned this RM campaign to the seller and they seemed to listen to what I was saying because it was backed by RM - so that did prove helpful, but:-
The real trouble is that portals are trying to offer too much.
Giving buyers comparable evidence, and sold prices on the same site that sellers rely on to promote their houses and try to get the best price is a conflict in my view,
Buyers should have to work harder to find evidence to substantiate lower prices - after all we are employed to get the best price - all be it in a difficult market
wardy - DON'T YOU DARE!! Look, matey - for the last three years or so (probably even be longer...) you have been one of the consistently sensibe pack.
I have had a couple of posts deleted also whwew I failed to see what I possibly could have said wrong. Mores to the point, I've had quite a few that even in my opinion should have gone - but didn't! I dare say that the editorial staff have a knife-edge to balance on here and will always pee someone off. There are a good few posters I would gladly see the back of (and I'm sure that there are a load who would gladly see the last PeeBee post as an opportunity to hang out flage when it happens...) - but YOU have too much to offer here by way of your experience to allow you to walk away.
This site would be a worse place without your input. Don't go. Please.
B A are you a bit thick too? How is £220 pcm typical mortage subsidising a £693 pcm average rent? Please don't post anymore I don't want the public to read this and to conclude we are all stupid.
As for the bloke who thinks Rightmove is more powerful than a telephone please let us no where you operate, it sounds like a great place to open the next office
That's a good post my Anonymous Coward.
It's excactly as we se it here too in the Home Counties.
What nonsense. I am one of gods own, an Estate Agent, I don’t need any help from anyone, not least from the most successful and brilliantly useful property interweb portal to help me educate my clients.
Of course it’s true that when I actually go to a valuation and the vendor already has an inflated price in mind that would have been helped no end by them getting a dose of realism when they started looking at Rightmove 3 weeks before they even put in a call to me. Its also true that push come to shove I will accept a high price that I know won’t sell because I am terrified of not having any instructions.
Its further true that when that happens I will come straight back here and complain bitterly that vendors won’t listen, but will at the same time refuting the idea that having more than one source giving the message to the vendor would help, because of my almighty arrogance that I am the sole authority on all matters property on my little patch of the country.
Maybe I will have the guts to leave Rightmove one day because I hate them, but of course I will always chicken out, because deep down I know they are more powerful than me and my high street window already.
Mike Wilson - “Thans for that. Best laugh I've had in ages. All those economists - they really predicted the credit crunch! And they all agree on what should be done eh?”
Actually many of the right kind of economists did exactly predict the crash and also why it would happen. These are the economists of the Austrian school, who follow the work of Von Misses and Karl Menger. Now its true that these economists are not the same kind who are used by governments and banks. Those institutions prefer Keysians economists. The difference between the two is that the Austrian school are always right and predict the future successfully, but they tell politicians what they don’t want to hear. While Keysians are always wrong and their policies make things worse, but they tell politicians what they want to hear. Which is why Keysians occupy all positions of influence and power.
@Outsider/Mike
I agree, the message needs putting out BUT the flip side for me is, you can not campaign to RM vendors without undermining the entire market and sending the wrong message to the buyers. (or atleast a message to the buyers that any agent would not thank RM for sending)
I pay RM to advertise my property NOT TO tell buyers property prices are too high....which is what they will be doing, most agents are simply saying they tell vendors this anyway and do not need a "how helpful are we campaign by RM" to do what we are doing anyway.
@anonymous coward
'With CPI running at 5.1% and property prices dropping at 1-2% the value of your home IN REAL TERMS is dropping by up to 7.5% per annum.'
What has the fact that it costs me more to heat my home and put petrol in my car got to do with the value of my house? It's what you earn - or the money you have - that counts. Arbitrarily valuing money in terms of what else it can buy is nonsense.
Say I have £100k. I could buy a property priced at £100k with it or I could buy 500000 tins of beans priced at 20p a tin.
A year goes by and the price of the beans has inflated 5% and then now cost 21p. Now my £100k only buys me 476190 tins of beans. What on earth has this to do with the price of the property I may, or may not, have bought?
If I've kept my money and the property is now 95k - whoopee I've 'saved' 5k. But, how much has it cost me to put a roof over my head in that year? How about £500 a month rent? So I've paid out 6k.
If you are a refugee from hpc - you will know that these arguments have been done to death for for years over there. There is no answer. But there is one simple fact - if you are talking about whether 'now' is a good time to buy a property - the only inflation that is relevant to the discussion is property price inflation and wage inflation.
The price of beans (and gold) is completely irrelevant.
And you wrote:
'This is the difference between an economist and a normal man in the street. Which one is right?'
Thans for that. Best laugh I've had in ages. All those economists - they really predicted the credit crunch! And they all agree on what should be done eh? Next thing you'll be quoting Danny Blanchflower!
The thing is Mr Coward any £1 drop in sale price is disproportionately affecting the vendor. The £1 comes solely out of the vendor's equity in the property, the higher the LTV the greater the effect.
The man in the street, the owner of the property is in total charge as long as he can fund the borrowing. While he or she decides that is not economic to move they won't move.
The economists arguments are all based on supply and demand and even if it is painful to not move, eventually a vendors decision not to move will naturally prove to be correct.
The only sector of the market that can be talked down by Mr Shipside or anyone else is the distressed sales, everyone else can sit tight until they become a distressed vendor.
Surely Rightmove are doing you all a big favour by telling vendors all in the garden is not rosy. You are terrified to do it in case you don't get instructed.
Never ceases to amaze me how people who are as rich as Croesus cannot get a suit that fits.
The jacket is too long for his body and the sleeves are too long for his arms. When his arms are at his sides all you can see is a few fingers sticking out. Looks like he picked the wrong jacket up.
To be fair to Ros her whip cracks both ways. I have see the late night , (alcohol influenced?),posts of Mr Magooo (dard) removed too, he comes on here to beat up any non GMGPS software supplier.
I'm amazed that agents aren't more positive about this campaign. As an interested outsider (DEA, spit, spit...) it seems to me:
- vendors will often look at Rightmove before even having an agents' beauty parade;
- Rightmove telling vendors to be realistic helps to get the message out without any agents being the one to sound negative by telling the vendor the truth;
- Rightmove seem to be actually asking themselves "what service do our customers actually need?" rather than "what service do our customers want?", as good organisations should;
- Rightmove may be being intelligent enough to recognize that what' good for their customers is good for them and might even help justify those crippling fees.
But, of course, I know nowt.
@catch22
And that is the fallacy of just talking about pound notes I'm afraid.
With CPI running at 5.1% and property prices dropping at 1-2% the value of your home IN REAL TERMS is dropping by up to 7.5% per annum.
Plus you are paying an exhorbitant rate of interest, probably 2.5% above what you should.
Blame who you like, but to keep your house it is costing you 10% of it's value every year.
It is actually better at the moment to liquidate your assets and go into rented. Finally, the landlord is subsidising the tenant!
This is the difference between an economist and a normal man in the street.
Which one is right?
Well, the economist is right of course, but we would all prefer it if she/ he wasn't.
@Wardy, assuming you have not used offensive words, I can only assume you being censored is out of order.
A shame perhaps the readers of this site were not able to read your comments and decide for themselves if it needed to be censored.
Can Rosalind not comment on why your comments have been deleted?
Dear Mr Shipside
Thanks very much for the advice but at 3% effective interest rates I can keep my overpriced property on the market for 3 years and still be better off than taking a 10% cut in my price. No sale no fee is great for me as a vendor I can sit here and wait, my agents keeps paying for advertising in newspapers and various portals. I have not got to move so Hey Ho it isn't costing me a penny.
It is only probate, divorce and repossession vendors who need take any heed of what you have got to say and then only if the parties are too thick to understand that there is a shortage of rented accommodation which is pumping out 5% yield right now.
I think you Mr Shipside (who is so powerful and mighty as to never post on EAT) might have his arse in a knot over the fact that portal advertising isn't proving an effective selling aid in a bear market.
I have come across you several times Mr Shipside I have never heard you say anything that isn't bollocks.
And guess what....
Good agents will talk about what RM are saying at point of valuation. No matter how you say it, vendor hears negative.
Bad agents will say "Oh no, that's just because the other agents aren't pro-active enough! We are seeing bidding wars, etc, etc...."
The owner, being swayed by someone who is positive, positive, positive will of course then decide (wrongly) which agent to go with.
EVERYBODY, even in London, knows that there is something wrong.
They just don't want to admit it.
Human nature being what it is means that vendors will attach more faith to the words of a convincing blag artist than to someone who is clear, honest & truthful.
The funny thing is that most of these vendors are also buyers, and when they call you to look for a new property they have a completely different attitude.
Why can't they see this.
"My house is worth its asking price, I will not accept an offer £5k below, but I am going to offer 20% off the next one, even though it is on the market for less than the last one sold in the street, and then I am going to tell everyone how offended I am that they wouldn't take my offer."
I have agreed sales for 4 vendors like this so far this year.
Only 1 has gone through.
You might say that considering that I tied up the sales, the owners were justified in holding out.
(Pat on my back) I would say it's because I am a wicked negotiator who is fab at his job.
In the end though, what twists my bits is the fact that having achieved their asking price, their attitude when they offer stupidly below is so arrogant.
I find myself ranting a lot on this website - sorry.
Sorry to say I will not be posting anymore on EAT. I’m disappointed that many of the posts on the article re Zoopla this week have been censored, I assume not to embarrass DGP who advertise on this site. Previously articles and posts about rightmove subscription fee’s have been positively encouraged by EAT. My posts on that article were not offensive to anyone personally and no bad language was used.
I am appalled that EAT would decide that the opinions of agents can be removed simply to protect its advertisers from a little embarrassment. I realise that EAT is a business but to me this censorship costs the website a huge chunk of credibility.
Pbro - there are examples out there of vendors changing EAs and UPPING the asking price.
FBA - Noah should have considered himself lucky to have got planning permission for the ark and approval from health and safety. He had to relocate the original building site three times due to people saying "I'm not having that in my back yard".
@IO, by jove you've done it sir! You hit the nail right on the head!
Rightmove should insist that all overpriced properties are removed from their website and may I also suggest that any property changing agents without a significant price reduction should also be banned from the site?
That'll learn 'em!
I think Noah overpaid for his Ark, was it on RM?
Radio Five phone in yesterday about house prices. First caller is selling his terraced house in Grimsby. He was thrilled when the EA offered to put it on the market for even higher than he had thought it was worth. The caller continued to say he had plans for all that extra equity he didn't know he had. Eight months and barely a viewing later, the house is still on the market.
I interpret it as educating the public more than educating agents - if they were trying to educate agents they probably would've just sent something through the mail.
@ Ric ..Agree 100%..any decent Agent, and thankfully that is the vast majority will already know this. Once again RM is being quoted as if what they say is the gospel. At the end of the day Vendors will appear to listen however they will take a realistic and honest valuation as an agent being negative especially if a rival overvalues and promises the earth and says they will have no problem selling (in other words lie). Unfortunately this has been a problem as old as the Ark!
Self deluded sellers remain self deluded. 95% of 'NEW' instructions in last 7 days are just changing agents at the SAME price, for about the 4th time.
Those sellers are not going to change because they don't want to. The only reason EAs take them on is beacuse there is a chance.
Maybe RM should refuse to accept listings of properties they feel are unrealistically priced if they have evidence this is at vendor insistence!!
Immediately I saw this I knew all EAs would just love it. I can imagine what I'd tell RM and where to shove their advice if they started trying to tell me how to do my job as a lettings agent.
Like most companies they should stick close to the knitting and focus on improving their own performance. Maybe if their fees weren't so high (and constantly increasing) and they were a bit more willing to talk sensible discounts for long standing and multiple office members, then those members could charge lower fees and vendors could more easily reduce prices.
Have a nice week-end all, bit of decent weather at last by looks of it!!
@ Stephen Dean, I agree, the key word in your post however is "good".
Most will bang on about price reductions only.
Price is important, but, it is only one element of the marketing mix.
Three cheers to Rightmove, how many times on this forum have we toyed with the idea of clubbing together in some way to educate sellers. Rightmove is doing everyone a service here.
Of course there will still be some rogue agents who will use overvaluation as a tool to get instruction, presumably with the aim of later talking them down, or maybe they are just a bit thick and don’t know what they’re doing? But nonetheless a welcome step in the right direction.
@Stephen Dean (good morning, firstly) I would very much imagine "every" decent agent will not need Rightmove to guide them through the market, you give RM far too much credit.
and oh please.....what a fantastic gesture from RM to give out "free" products they are so thoughtful.....and so working up to the marketing campaign that these "features" work and your agent "should" have them so if they have not "tell them" you want a feature on yours.
I like RM (that was hard to say) but only in terms of they are for me the cleanest property portal, showing property without too much fuss.....but lets not credit them with they are leading agents into thinking prices may need reducing on certain properties.....me thinks all agents will already be aware!!
Before I get piblicly flayed - my post relating to "agents having it so good" was from the Right Move article not the previous blogger - cheers
Everyone thinks their property is worth more than it maybe is. As an agent in a fairly decent area I still find myself erring on the side of caution or being conservative rather than ambitious. At the end of the day vendors shouldnt need to give thir property away but equally so their agent needs to be saying that the market isnt great, you might not get what you want - but surely better that than filling their heads full of rubbish and inflated figures and then a year later having to justify it when its not sold. As for the previous post about "agents having it so good" what a crock! since 2008 we have had to work harder and be more innovative, the amount of info on the web benefits vendors which isnt a bad thing and the amount of small independents closing isnt a good thing either. It doesnt need rightmove to tell agents what we already know - it needs sellers, for the most part to get their head out the sand and "concerned of nonsense town town" to substantiate their remarks
Hi think the comments are exactly what Rightmove expected... honest comments from sellers! Any good agent should take note!!