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End of the road for personal searches?

 

Monday 24th May 2010
The Government is facing calls for official searches to be made compulsory in all home-buying transactions.

If it agrees, it could spell the end of the road for the personal search industry, already dealt a huge blow by the suspension and inevitable abolition of HIPs.

Land Data – which makes official search information available in electronic form through the National Land Information Service – said it welcomed the suspension of HIPs.

Chief executive Jan Boothroyd said that HIPs had almost immediately become synonymous with price and the poor quality of property searches.

She said: “Ultimately this exposed consumers to incomplete and out-of-date information, often insufficient for the needs of a buyer. This in turn led to the buyer’s conveyancer ordering searches for the property again and the unsatisfactory situation where the seller and the buyer were both paying for searches.

“Land Data believes consumer interests are best served by official, indemnified authoritative data from local authorities, water authorities, land registry and the coal authority.

“Furthermore, consumers should only pay for this information once and have the right to expect it to be up-to-date, complete and available at the point in the conveyancing transaction that they need it.
    
“With the removal of HIPs there is an opportunity for the Government to look at new initiatives to improve the home buying process and Land Data believes making official searches compulsory will not only protect the home buying public from poor search practices but will bring instant clarity to a confused market.”





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Added by LA SEARCH SUPPORTER on 2010-09-28 14:49:09

Having worked for a Personal Search provider, I do not think any Solicitor/Conveyancer would opt to use them if they were aware of the corners cut & dishonest info given, & ways in which they are lured into taking out extra policies etc for things that don't even exist. I think most people would be horrified if they were aware of the truth. The company I worked for had been trading for many years. I agree that some councils are a bit of a nightmare, eg some of the inner London ones are chaotic & often under staffed & provide poor info, but on the whole, the councils I dealt with across the country were helpful, accurate & excellent at their jobs, even though they often had barely enough staff to operate. I would feel greatly relieved if someone would finally wake up and realise that LA searches should be the only information that can be used in the conveyance process, I feel that this would be much safer for the consumer. With what I have seen throughout the idustry, the company I worked for did searches on behalf of many other companies and vice versa, I would never trust any PS agents for something so important and expensive as buying a house & I cannot believe these people have got away with what they have for so long.
Added by Jose on 2010-06-23 13:19:46

I have witnessed good, bad and ugly searches from councils and private companies alike. I was introduced to a locally based personal search company (pre HIP)after using council searches for years and have not considered using another source since. As well as excellent search content for me the benefits over the council route is a single point of contact with someone who has a vested interest in providing a good 'can do' service, reports are supplied to me in the same clear concise format whether in Bolton or Brighton and a single price structure which helps when quoting.
In finishing the Experienced Local Land Charges Officer mentions 'consumer protection'....a question for you (maybe Ms. Steele who has posted below would also like to answer).
If local authorites had the monopoly on providing search reports how long would it be before you increased your search fees?
Added by Experienced Local Land Charges Officer on 2010-06-02 15:49:34

I'm saddened but not surprised that in response to a measured statement by Land Data all the private sector is able to do is to mount a volley of personal attacks on Jan Boothroyd. What happened to reasoned discussion and debate that has at its heart authoratative data and consumer protection.
Added by jacqueline steele on 2010-06-01 17:24:50

Play another tune please personal search companies!
Local Authorities are now returning searches in 2-3 working days, fees are competitive and the information is up to date, accurate and has been obtained from authorative sources.

Also, Local Authority Insurance does not end on the date contracts are signed.

Complicated search sites are given the time they deserve rather than being profit led with personal searchers packing as many in as they can before chasing off to keep their appointment at the next local authority several miles away.

As for the comment on indemnity insurance - this will not compensate a home owner who ends up with a property that restricts the use, enjoyment and in some future development of their home or business.

There is a time bomb of poor quality property information out there provided by personal search companies and included in Hips packs on the back of which people have bought homes, covered by insurance, valid in many cases only to the date contracts were signed.

Hardly a service to be proud of, but I suppose one can understand the industry wanting the good times continue.

As for EIR, strange that all the time these paragons could use their insurance for not taking the trouble to provide property information that was good enough for them. EIR was not part of the personal search vocabulary, until of course the information had to be provided and paid for.

Its time to clean up the property information market and that can only happen if Official Searches become the search of choice for lenders and the public.

Added by HPG on 2010-05-27 15:28:39

Alan, you seem to have confused Personal Search providers with HIP providers. Many Search Providers have been around for years and are looking forward to returning to their work with solicitor clients rather than HIP providers and Estate Agents who drove down prices to increase their own profits.

In my area, Local Authority Searches still take weeks and are riddled with errors thus enabling me to keep existing clients and pick up new ones who want efficient and accurate searches.
Added by Alan on 2010-05-27 11:17:07

I can't believe some of the unprofessional comments on here from supposedly professional people and yes I am referring to personal search agents. Firstly the facts are that many Local Authorities in my area are returning searches in 1 or 2 working days and are considerably cheaper than a personal search. It's time the Local Authorities fought from all this malicious talk by personal search agents. In my opinion you guys jumped on the bandwagon and it has been derailed and if any of you were real business people you would have seen the HIP industry as high risk right at the beginning.
Added by observer on 2010-05-25 16:44:42

This post has been removed by site admin
Added by observer on 2010-05-25 12:08:45

....obviously not ANYTHING then...
Added by observer on 2010-05-25 09:14:50

This post has been removed by site admin
Added by Your're having a laarf on 2010-05-24 19:34:15

Don't worry yourselves guys, this comic will print anything from anyone.

Write in and tell em anything, they'll prnt it!
Added by London Searcher on 2010-05-24 17:16:09

Having witnessed the content of so called 'official' searches from several inner London Councils, the information is vague, obscure and in many cases actually wrong.

For example...
- Important registrations ignored or ommitted. 'Oh we didnt spatially capture that conservation area'. Great

- being referred to a website for an answer. Thanks for that.

- Bizarre and archaic use of Councilspeak abbreviations in answers. Lazy.

- Using out of date local plan information. Amazing.

- Photocopies of illegible scribbled planning consents stapled to the back of the dogeared search. Quality.

- Liberal use of the responses such as 'Not so far as is known' or 'Not to the Council's knowledge' How about a straightforward Yes or No.

I could go on. In short, not fit for purpose.

Added by Sally on 2010-05-24 17:07:50

As all conveyancers know, a local search, no matter who conducts it, is out of date after one day (any additions to the council's record after the search is done will not be known to the prospective buyer). Its obviously not practical to keep repeating the searches and so the legal/mortgage industries have come to an accepted compromise of accepting the validity of searches for a prescribed period of time, and thereafter relying on indemnity insurance. I see no reason therefore why accepted practice should not be for all transactions to proceed on the basis of search indemnity only - ie no more local searches. It would save time and money and go a long way towards delivering to the home-buying consumer what they actually want... a faster, cheaper conveyancing process.
Added by Search Professional on 2010-05-24 16:59:47

This article has highlighted that it is high time that Land Data's privileged status as a CIC be reviewed, the tax benefits and "moral high ground" that they often seem to claim should be forfeit immediately and they should be required to compete on a level playing field, as should all other commercial property data businesses, in particular the local authorities non-statutory information report services, who still claim an exemption for VAT when their products are as commercial as any personal search company's. VAT authorities please take note - there is a fortune to be recovered from local authorities who have been abusing this situation for an age.
Added by personal searcher on 2010-05-24 16:39:35

I was going to tell you that Jan Boothroyd fought long on hard to stop personal searches in her previous existence as a council employee and that she lost, big style but others beat me to it. Looks like she is trying again but this time for her latest employer, which of course has a vested interest! The government saw through your agenda Jan, and introduced legislation to force local authorities to back down and provide proper access, thus destroying a monopoly comprising inefficient service and over the top charging. Sorry Jan, you lost so please move on.
Added by anon on 2010-05-24 15:15:22

The problem here is with the name 'personal search'. The industry set up to replicate the council function of search provision should be called 'private searches' and should be regulated/charged as such. The personal search avenue should only exist for individuals who are self conveyancing, not for money making purposes. All this 'waiting for months' talk is very outdated. I would imagine almost all council's would be operating turnarounds of days, mainly because of the competition.
Added by Conveyancer on 2010-05-24 14:42:22

Having been in conveyancing for 20 years and conducted thousands of purchases I can honestly say that I have never had a problem with a personal search. I do however recall ( pre-personal searches ) spending hours chasing Local Authorities and having to wait months for search results.


Added by rocketman on 2010-05-24 13:13:44

This post has been removed by site admin
Added by An old sceptic on 2010-05-24 13:01:46

I read with interest Jan Boothroyd’s authoritative comments in E.A.T regarding personal searches

For those of you who are not aware, Jan Boothroyd, once the Local Land Charges Officer at Leeds City Council and now head of Land Data was a key figure in launching the National Land Information Service (NLIS); an organisation set up using government funds to establish an electronic ‘hub’ which could be used to obtain and disseminate Land Information Services to the public.

However, within a short space of time NLIS became a private company and a full-time provider of official electronic searches to the Conveyancing sector - via the government-funded hub; at a profit of course. In other words they became a profit-making company whose job is to provide property searches to the Conveyancing marketplace; a bit like a search company might do!!!

And they were quite successful. In fact, so successful were they that they were bought out by a Canadian organisation MDA who were looking for a foothold into the UK Searches market.

Now if a full time search provider doesn’t want to be seen as just another search provider, an ideal way to do that might be to create the perception of 'authority' a ‘suitably named facade’ and a Community Interest Company might just fit the bill.

Enter CNLIS, or as it’s now known, Land Data and what is one of the key functions of Land Data:-

To manage and regulate the commercial contracts of the National Land Information Service

Forgive me for being an old sceptic but as an ex Land Charges Officer with a dislike of personal searches, who was also the leading light behind NLIS and is now the head of Land Data, (who regulate NLIS) I think it would be fair to say that Jan Boothroyd has something of a vested interest in casting doubts on personal searches, don’t you?
Added by Nick on 2010-05-24 12:08:41

Is it possible that Jan has a vested interest? Is it possible that Land Data have seen a fall in council searches? Is it possible that NLIS is losing money. Don't bother your pretty little head with these matters Jnie baby. Leave it to the professionals and the market place. The chill wind of competition is blowing up your skirt.
Nick.
Added by Search Company on 2010-05-24 11:45:59

It appears Jan Boothroyd and Land Data have forgotten the Competition Act and the OFT report of 2005 where Local Authorities were found to have been abusing their dominant position and using anti-competitive tactics. The Personal Search industry has always provided a much needed and valuable service to conveyancers and now that HIPs are gone most will return to their previously trusted providers, which in many instances is reputable and long established private search companies and certainly not inefficient beaurocratic Local Authorities.
Added by Search Provider on 2010-05-24 10:49:54

Will never happen, this was suggested a long time ago but came to nothing. If they tried to do this the council would have a monopoly and over the past 15/20 years personal searches have been used thus showing a need for them. HIPS are gone but Personal Searches will live on. Its the quality that needs monitoring and now the searches are going back to Solicitors its positive because they will not accept any old tat and will use reputable companies who have been around for years (one would hope)
Added by Mark Williams on 2010-05-24 10:32:01

Tricia38 - got out of the wrong side of the bed did we?

The only references to government in this entire article state:

"The Government is facing calls for official searches to be made compulsory in all home-buying transactions."

"With the removal of HIPs there is an opportunity for the Government to look at new initiatives ....... "

Both of these are third party suggestions yet according to
you the new government stands accused of regulating the property market and Grant Shapps doesn't know what he's talking about (unlike you hey?).
Added by anon on 2010-05-24 10:23:39

The councils tend to make more mistakes on their searches than the Personal search industry. Why wait weeks or even months when a search can be done within 5-10 working days
Added by Tricia38 on 2010-05-24 10:14:07

Great, lets go back to the 70's and wait 3 months for some local authorities to send us a paper search. By the way, I thought the Government didnt want to get involved in regulating the property market?
It boils down to this, if you use the quality personal search providers you can get speed and accuracy - and if your client's are happy and you can report to the Lender with confidence what's the problem? Just goes to show how little Grant Schapps knows about anything related to property!
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