An email flyer sent out to private landlords entitled ‘How to lose your agent in 73 seconds’ has sparked anger.
The email was sent on behalf of uPad, an ARLA member which advertises on Rightmove and other portals.
One critic, who was sent the email by mistake, said: “How can Rightmove allow an account to an ‘agent’ whose marketing tactic is to appeal to private landlords with offers of ‘how to lose your agent in 73 seconds’?”
He said it would be ‘bizarre’ if Rightmove were to continue its account.
uPad launched some three years ago as an online service for landlords which cut out agents. It did not initially call itself an agent, but now styles itself a ‘self-service lettings agency’ and is an ARLA licensed agent.
It offers its services from £99, which includes advertising on the large portals, and its mantra is: ‘Landlords are better than agents at showing properties’.
Founder James Davis said: “Rightmove are aware of what we do. We are an agent, and everything that an agent does we do, albeit that we clearly have a different business model from traditional agents.”
A spokesman for Rightmove said: “We don’t comment on individual advertisers, but as with all advertisers on Rightmove, uPad will have gone through a formal vetting procedure and has to meet the criteria we set to advertise on our site.
“The criteria include full compliance with relevant consumer protection legislation. Rightmove does not allow private sellers or private landlords to advertise directly on the site: all sellers and landlords who want their properties to appear on site have to use a sales or lettings agent.
“We are aware that some agents operate under a fee-based model rather than a service-based model. However, by law we would be unable to discriminate one practice over the other by factoring an agent’s fees into our vetting procedure.”
A spokesman for Zoopla said: "We only accept properties marketed by an agent or developer. This means that a property would require an appraisal, marketing and negotiating terms from the agent. We are not aware of landlords advertising through third party sites, however if any advertiser is not behaving as such, we will investigate and act accordingly."
A spokesman for the Digital group of portals said: "We don't comment on individual cases, but we have strict criteria around who can advertise on our sites, one of which is that we look to see if the company or agent is recognised by one of the trade associations, for example ARLA or the NAEA, who we believe themselves have strict membership requirements, and/or are registered with the Property Ombudsman."
Peter Bolton King, chief executive of ARLA, said: "We are aware of the issues raised and are currently considering the matter."
Private sellers and landlords only have to look online to see how they can list their properties on the major agency portals from about £39 for rental properties and from around £300 for sales properties.
Consumers can do so by using ‘online agents’ listed by the Landlord Property Investment website, that gives private sellers and agents detailed information as to how escape ‘extortionate’ agents’ fees but still list their properties on agency portals.
The site advises: “The ‘online estate agents’ will market your property-for-sale on the biggest UK property portals, such as Rightmove, Property Finder etc. If you want to sell your house privately with the best possible chance of succeeding, then you need to list your house for sale on the biggest UK property portals, especially Rightmove.”
The site, which lists uPad amongst those that can enable landlords to list their properties, says: “I’ve personally used several of the sites listed below, and they’ve always managed to find me tenants quickly and efficiently, saving me thousands on letting agent fees over the years.”
https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/privately-advertise-and-sell-your-house-on-rightmove
https://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/how-to-advertise-your-buy-to-let-on-rightmove
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Comments
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Rightmove vetted them?? Procedure is
Can they pay? Then screw them too.
Jonnie - I hope my missus doesn't phone you asking to look at your nice semi :0)
I dont dislike all estate agents....there are some in my area that i think offer poor service and value for money there are others I think are very good. (I have EA friends that are in both camps)
In summary it is my opionion lots of vendors need a good agent....some dont need an agent at all.....but none of them need or want a bad agent
I think this is just the thing we need and well over due and based on this I have an idea as to how we can accommodate the EA haters.
You see these chaps lurk about places like EAT and tell us how much they hate EA’s (odd it’s always chaps, you never get ladies banging on about it?!) and there are lots of ways people can cut out agents – loads of websites etc, social media and all that – you can even make a sigh out of bits and bobs of wood and hammer it into your lawn and wait for the phone to jump off the hook, its simple so why use some slimey bloody EA?
Anyway, with this in mind I think its right that the EA haters should not have to use us, we clearly make them unhappy and while their wives and girlfriends appear un fazed / quite satisfied with us these cross men need looking after so my message to them is………………..don’t use us, don’t come into our offices, don’t use our websites, don’t look at our adverts, our boards and never ring us – we don’t mind, really, go and do the whole thing on your own – feel free to buy, sell, let etc without us, source your own house, do the deal and be happy, after all its as simple as that just get on with it…………..at least until your Mrs gets fed up with you being such a swivel eyed nutter, tells you to get over yourself and rings us herself about the and asks if we have a nice semi on she can look at.
Jonnie
@ Chris
"If agents spent as much effort trying to sell properties already on their books as they do trying to obtain more, they would be much more successful."
Agreed.
Chris - Thanks for the honest update.
Anon - The seller was happy, the buyer was happy the hpc mob will be pleased too whats the problem, who is unhappy?
Well apart from you as didnt get a fee
Oh and the other agents in the area as next similar property sold around there will be based on 435K not 470K hmphhh....you really cant please all of the people all of the time can you
Happy new year to all :0)
Hi Happy, we feel that a no-sale, no-fee works best for our clients than an up-front fee. That way we only get paid if we deliver the goods and we charge a percentage of the sale price.
Our feel tends to be between 0.25% & 0.5% less than the high street agents, because we are saving around £40k or £50k a year by not running an expensive office. This helps us stay competetive without compromising our service/ advertising.
We are also a word of mouth business and do no self advertising at all. No leaflet drops through letterboxes, no radio advertising etc. All of our leads come from other friends/ family/ colleagues of previous customers, so whatever we are doing is obviously working, even in these hard times. We have never borrowed a penny from the bank and have been going since 2004.
If agents spent as much effort trying to sell properties already on their books as they do trying to obtain more, they would be much more successful.
Good grief - who really cares? We have heard it all before - remember the panic over Tesco iSold? That went well.
Sellers need buyers and buyers don't pay fees so don't care how cheap uPad is.
Not even an original name uPad... iSold? Come on guys. May I suggest uFad instead?
As for saving 1000's - this is a myth. I have heard many a buyer involved in a private sale moan about greedy sellers who wont take an offer when they 'aren't even pay an agent fees'
I know of one house which sold in a road recently for £435,000 saving the seller £9k in fees. Great - however, had he called us, we could have achieved £470K to the same buyer as he had specific reasons for wanting the property and played the survey card on issues which were not really issues.
Online agents have been predicting the imminent demise of the high street agent for over a decade - yet may agents continue to expand. Same with online shopping, but Tesco, Morrisons, M&S continue to open more stores.
Chris - May i ask do you charge your clients on % fee basis, single payment before instruction or some other method.......would you care to disclose how much?
Chris - Then strictly speaking, you are not an online agent! You are offering the qualities that a lot of the public still seek in a high street agent and that approach will win your more business than you would get if you only hid behind a WWW.
Chris Reloaded - I wasted 20 seconds reading the first bit of your post and gave up. Then realised you posted that at 22:47 on New Years Day and there cannot possibly be any helping you. Really, thats the best thing you could have done at that time, on that day? I don't often say this, but I do feel a little sorry for you....
Chris - a fine example of how it can be done keep up the good work.
("Online agents are different kettle of fish. A high street agent can and will provide a way more expensive service than an online - however they can even offer a cheap cup of coffee and a sit down review in their cold, poky office. They've probably lost the locational trust and thinking about becoming "just another online cowboy".
Don't get me wrong, there are some very good online agents. However, I would rather sell through a physical office and pay over the odds and I would certainly rather buy through one, because I'm a masochist")
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Then there are agents like ourselves that fall somewhere between the two. Working from home (Large home I must add!!) on a main road in the village, a splendid timber structure barn conversion with a large company sign positioned on the front garden wall, with a three car carpark out front, next to a lovely council estate, with friendly people. we do exactly the same as every other high street agent (compulsive lying). We carry out valuations, accompany viewings, do paper brochures, use the newspapers (Still), chase viewings for feedback, negotiate sales and manage them through to completion, lie and deceit every minute of the day.
Vendors and buyers still visit us to complain or beat us up, so in every sense we do the same job as traditional high street agents, but our office running costs are lower, because we need to spare money for hospital bills and lawyers' fees we don't need weekend staff, because we can't be bothered on weekends, our business rates only apply to two poky rooms in the barn/ offices which is cheaper and our work/life balance is better.
Don't get me wrong, there is still a place for the traditional high street agent in London where everything sells, but the technology advances have shifted things away slightly enabling us to do an botched job away from the high street. We feel that our setup still needs to look good with nice desks, a reception counter, photo copier and a First Aid Room. Working with a laptop in your barn is working well I think in a village! We operate within an over regulated professional industry and we should do our best to look and operate as such.
PS. I just made my latest sale & latest business phone call to a customer within 160-years of estate agency. One of my clients rang me from the council estate next door at 11:45 pm last night , threatened to beat me up for the last time this year so I quickly left the barn at 11:55 pm, said my goodbyes with a minute to spare before the midnight New Year beat down!!! Talk about trying to hit your monthly/ annual sales target and then run for your life! That was cutting it fine. Lol.
PS. That's one problem with pissing people up from a barn next to a council estate, your working days tend to be much longer and your life is in constant danger. Ho hum.
("Online agents are different kettle of fish. A high street agent can and will provide a better service than an online - you cannoy even offer a cup of coffee and a sit down review in your own office. You do not have the locational trust and could easily be "just another online cowboy".
Don't get me wrong, there are some very good online agents. However, I would rather sell through a physical office and I would certainly rather buy through one.")
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Then there are agents like ourselves that fall somewhere between the two. Working from home (Large home I must add!!) on a main road in the village, with a large company sign positioned on the front garden wall, with a three car carpark out front, we do exactly the same as every other high street agent. We carry out valuations, accompany viewings, do paper brochures, use the newspapers (Still), chase viewings for feedback, negotiate sales and manage them through to completion.
Vendors and buyers still visit us to drop off keys/ collect them too, so in every sense we do the same job as traditional high street agents, but our office running costs are lower, we don't need weekend staff, because we can cover calls and occasional visits while we are doing other things, our business rates only apply to two dedicated rooms/ offices which is cheaper and our work/life balance is better.
Don't get me wrong, there is still a place for the traditional high street agent, but the technology advances have shifted things away slightly enabling us to do an identical job away from the high street. We feel that our setup still needs to look professional with nice desks, a reception counter, photo copier etc. Working with a laptop on your kitchen table is not going to work that well I don't think! We operate within a regulated professional industry and we should do our best to look and operate as such.
PS. I just made my latest sale & latest business phone call to a customer within 16-years of estate agency. One of my vendors rang me from the USA at 11:45 pm last night to accept an offer, so I quickly rang the buyer to give him the good news at 11:55 pm, said my goodbyes with a minute to spare before the midnight New Year count down!!! Talk about trying to hit your monthly/ annual sales target! That was cutting it fine. Lol.
PS. That's one problem with working from home, your working days tend to be much longer. Ho hum.
Anyone interested in a toy workshop in Lapland? I really cant be assed with this cr*p each year
For Sale By Santa?
'honest john': "cutting out the middle man you can save Thousands !"
Interesting comment. Firstly, this does NOT bear any relevance to "cutting out a middle man" - simply ANOTHER "middle man" offering a substantially cut-down service at a (potentially) cheaper cost. Secondly, whilst you may be one of those who have tried a DIY home sale and succeeded, it has to be said that for a fairly hefty percentage of homeowners, cutting out Agents would more than likely COST them thousands rather than saving them anything.
There opens the floodgates for debate...
its the times we are all in. cutting out the middle man you can save Thousands !
In an industry where we religiously target each others stock with leaflets, letters and door knocking, wasn't this the next step?
In an age where technology is easily accessible and therefore radically shifting people online doesn't it seem foolish not to recognize, embrace and incorporate this into our business model?
In a depressed economy with a wounded housing market, should we not conceive that perhaps vendors perceptions of how we do business is changing?
In an era of broken high streets and tighter lending controls shouldn't every agent review their strategy to ensure we are prepared for change; or should we continue to flatter ourselves that whatever happens around us we will survive in exactly the same form as we are today?
In my view....
@ WorcestershireAgent on 2011-12-23 11:58:38
Absolutely right if you include the management side of lettings - as a specialist letting/managing agent requires a great knowledge of the regulations etc and is very much worth the fees.
@ Tony on 2011-12-23 12:06:31
Wrong on all counts. So much so I doubt if the reasons could ever be explained to you unless you do more research..
Don't be so anxious guys.
In 2012 Rightmove hopefully will take over the market entirely and does the job from advertising to sale completed for US (buyers&sellers) in a very convenient and efficient way for a reasonable fee.
Most of you estate agents can go and find a proper job.
End of an era.
Happy 2012 !
Online - I was strictly referring to agency vs private letting/selling.
Online agents are different kettle of fish. A high street agent can and will provide a better service than an online - you cannoy even offer a cup of coffee and a sit down review in your own office. You do not have the locational trust and could easily be "just another online cowboy".
Don't get me wrong, there are some very good online agents. However, I would rather sell through a physical office and I would certainly rather buy through one.
@game over? People have been saying that for years, yet many good agents continue to expand even in recession.
Remember the fears over Tesco iSold - that went well.
every new venture sounds the death knell for the high street agent - shortly before they fold.
And - just wait until something goes wrong - thats the difference.
On Line - If you need to sell your own propety for the best price would you be so daft as to only expose it to an unknown On Line brand and not whole of market? No of course not.
I was Happy Chappy formally Unhappy Chappy then someone said they were Happy Chappy...which is great but I thought i was the only Happy Chappy here...does that mean I have to be Unhappy Chappy again??????
@game over? People have been saying that for years, yet many good agents continue to expand even in recession.
Remember the fears over Tesco iSold - that went well.
every new venture sounds the death knell for the high street agent - shortly before they fold.
AceofSpades - You are wrong, you save the difference between the fee with a traditional agent and what you pay an online agent. Tell me exactly what you do to get a higher offer from a buyer that i wouldn't.
Traditional agents rely on one thing keeping them alive - tradition!
Sorry ignorant knockers, they have always been around so it will not damage us at all. Actually the reverse, when they have failed to sell we always charge a higher fee as they then know they need us and realise they have been game, but stupid.
May I give you further advice, don’t buy too expensive crackers you won’t understand the jokes in the same way you don’t understand EA.
If you ever get in a position to own a property you will, until then shhhh children.
With all these self service sites like upad and review sites like Allagents, is it time for estate agents (in the form we currently know it in) to start accepting that the game is over??
Romeo - If the selling price with an agent is £200,000 @ 2%, You will pocket £196,000.
If you can achieve a sale of £196,000 plus, then sell it yourself and don't waste energy moaning on here.
However, I seriously doubt that you could achieve that price, else EVERYONE would be doing it.
The private selling bus has been at the stop for a long, LONG time now. It's pulling away with a couple of passengers on board. It's stopping every 10 cm's to look back at an empty bus stop, in case anyone else wants to jump on board.
I is sorry for all me spelling stakes I anint
Tony - I know of many buyers (and especially tennants) who strictly opt for the services of an estate or letting agent as they feel more comfortable doing this than going privately through any old landlord.
So yes, you COULD stick your place on the net, take some calls, show people round and find a solicitor - well done.
But you are removing a section of your target market by operating privately. You're also sticking an advert on the net and waiting for the phone to ring - exactly what a bad estate/letting agent does.
A good agent has a mass database of registered buyers and tennats who they regularly contact re new and upcoming properties.
You could do it yourself, I just doubt your agreement you reach will reach it's FULL potential though.
Well erm I do like self service agents, but then Again i do also like traditional letting agents.
But which one is best??
There is ONLY one way to find out.... FIGHHHHT!
See you all after the break:)
Merry Christmas everyone!
So you''ve found your own tenant - Great. You've paid extra for referencing and paid the solicitor.
Now, how about the management of your property?
How much of your time will it take up?
How much will it stress you out when things go wrong?
How will get rent from tenants who won't pay?
How quickly will you learn the legal knowledge, essential for dealing with landlord/ tenant problems?
How well will you deal with deposit disputes when your tenant plays the 'vulnerable, hard done by, victim act'?
Your 'cheap' DIY letting may seem great, but add it to the cost of making a few simple mistakes and you're seriously out of pocket.
The question here is:
Is the agent's "wealth of experience" worth 1.5-2% of the selling price?
I don't think so.
@WorcestershireAgent
The method below is the same with both sales and lettings.
"As a landlord you can expect an extremely comprehensive service from a great, regulated letting agent, representing excellent value for money. "
Sounds a lot of hot air to me, and I'm sure I can sale/let my property without your "extremely comprehensive service".
Tony,
Your comment relates to estate agents (sales) but you sneakily slipped in the word, 'landlord'.
As a landlord you can expect an extremely comprehensive service from a great, regulated letting agent, representing excellent value for money.
As a vendor, if you put no value on the agent's wealth of experience, your probably not too far wrong.
Could an estate agent answer this very simple question? Why should I - a vendor/landlord - hire an estate agent? What is it exactly an estate agent does that I can't do?
I can
- Set the asking price
- Market the property online
- Present the property for viewings
- Do viewings
- Receive offers
- Find a solicitor to do the paperwork.
On line agent - That seems a very naive view from someone, presumably in the business.
Have you considered that a good agent does much more than simply advertise a property and do viewings? Particularly in lettings.
Any clown can set up a website but do they have years of letting and property management experience, local knowledge and the valuable legal knowledge that could save their clients thousands when things go wrong?
Online Agent, Michael & Worcestershire Agent all make good points.
The "problem" is choice.
A property owner used to able to choose between Agent A, B, C, D etc - all on the high street and all quite ethical (Back in the day pre 1987 of course).
The Late Eighties "Greed is Good" Gordon Gecko mantra rather killed things though.
Mortgage lending became de-regulated and rose hugely (compared to the controlled lending before - my aunt and uncle bought their first house with a "council" mortgage...)
Not only did the number of agents proliferate, prices shot up and fees came down.
Leading to a greed wins attitude for everyone.
The logical conclusion of this is a race for the bottom where property owners are so queezed by the size of their overinflated mortage that they look for every cheaper options in other transactions.
People do not place ANY value on the services of an average estate agent and in a huge percentage of cases this is thoroughly justified. But then of course you get what you pay for...
Pay me 2% and you will get a 2% service with bells & whistles, pay me less than 1% (usual where I work) and you get a modest service based on volume of transactions and crossed fingers.
The next stage down the ladder is fixed listing fees and crossed fingers where successful transactions do not subsidise failed ones because they pay too.
It is inevitable (blimey - two film quotes in one post - how good's that?)
Joe Public,
What planet you on? and are you like this with all service industries??
Paul - If an agency has 50 properties on its books It costs an them about £10 a month to advertise each property on Rightmove. Hardly extortionate is it considering nearly every potential buyer looks there first.
If an agent sells just one average it receives £2400-3200 (If it sells an above average priced property it receives a lot more)
Why are the traditional agents rounding on Joe Publics spelling and grammar What about hmmm and Rip off Righmove. Typical pick on something trivial to hide behind
KC wrong gradually the public will increasingly use online agents rather than traditional agents particularly when the internet generation own houses, viewings can easily be handled directly by the vendors as most happen at weekends.
Vendors will happily pay us £10 month to advertise with Rightmove until the house is sold. As soon as more vendors realise they could have the house on sale for year an still save money, you traditional EA's will go the same way as Travel Agents
Happy Christmas
There is room for all sorts of marketing & services.
But it is annoying for agents to pay such very high fees to Rightmove, to be part of their XLNT marketing package, and to then find that uPAD are essentially subletting marketing space.
I feel that Rightmove could look into this, as a sales agent I don't think I'd be allowed to sublet space on my own website & therefore Rightmove etc etc .... but its a thought!
I welcome anyone testing out a new model.The established ways are often the best, but not always.
Why all the anger people?
This model is nothing new. These sites/ agents provide an inferior service at a very low cost. Landlords and vendors get what they pay for!
Good, honest agents, who work hard, day in, day out for their clients have nothing to fear.
Some landlords will always be prepared to cut corners and avoid paying a good letting agent. In my experience, many live to regret it
@ Joe Public
Agents will always survive. Landlords, vendors and tenants will always use us, no matter what.
Now, go grab a dictionary and kill yourself.
As a late add to this story, the Digital group has just sent this statement: “We don’t comment on individual cases, but we have strict criteria around who can advertise on our sites, one of which is that we look to see if the company or agent is recognised by one of the trade associations, for example ARLA or the NAEA, who we believe themselves have strict membership requirements, and/or are registered with the Property Ombudsman”
'joe public' - how come you finished your bin round so quickly this morning? not enough tips?
If anyone out there is charging extortionate fees it's not us agents with increasing competition, it's RIGHTMOVE!!!
As a vendor, why shouldn't this option be available to me ?
Wow, it really is the season of good spirit, hey?
Joe Public, you little dipstick, you NEVER have to use a letting or estate agent in your life - you only will if YOU CHOOSE to!!
There is an agonosingly simple solution to that...call your two brain cells back into work this morning for some Xmas overtime and work it out for yourself.
Should definately not be allowed
Rightmove etc should drop upad, and any other similar site for that matter, immeaditely
Joe Public,
I hope Santa brings you a dictionary for Christmas and an education with it. Oh and maybe a bag of sugar to help with your bitterness!
Joe public - once an agent who got the sack!
Joe public - was an agent but got
This highlights an issue which will be difficult to deal with, thanks to the OFT report which encourages different forms of agency. It is not ironic that 'bash the agent' set-ups have to call themselves agents in order to get private sellers and landlords properties on to all the big portals. Without Rightmove, their business models would stand no chance. We should keep the pressure up on Rightmove, Zoopla, etc,
Does anyone have a stick of dynamite to place straregically under PBK's gluteus maximus?
@joe public
Obviously an unhappy tenant who didn't get all of his/her deposit back! (spelling not a strong point)
Clever clever stuff from UPAD, I bet all you other agents wish you thought if it. As a landlord I can make my own choices but sometimes do use a high street agent as I want them to do viewings and keep me out of it.
...'joe public' obviously educated under Tony Blair.
HaHa!
You Agent's just don't like anything that could threaten your little empires...good luck to all who challenge the status quo!...embrace change, for change will surely come to pass.
The days of flash cars, mis spelling your names, high street 'shops' and bonkers fees just may be turning against you.
YEAH!!!!!!!!
About time you RIP OFF ESTATE and LETTING AGENTS were put outbid business!!!!!
You are ALL parasites and make money for nothing!!!
And you lie, boast and cheat about everything.
You always say everyone else is wrong bar you.
All agents will go Bust! Good Riddens to BAD Rubbish!