Agents already breaking law over HIPs

I know most of you have slated HIPS, but let’s look at the bigger picture.

HIPS created jobs, took people out of the unemployment queue and gave them money and stability. The new coalition govt say they are going to scrap them, which means: hundreds of people are going to lose their jobs, an increase in unemployment, more people applying for tax credits/housing benefits and higher repossession statistics - How can this be good for the economy???
It is important that you should be aware that your liability insurance will be null and void if you break the law with regards to HIPs and if anything should go wrong, the EA may have to fork out hundreds to the vendor. If you want to risk your business by breaking the law...... good luck!!

The housing minister should have more important things to think about, like how to house the 4 million people who are without a home or who live in poverty/squalor.

He has commented that he will not condone non compliance of estate agents with regards to HIPS, so our govt is turning a blind eye to people breaking the law!!

He has also said that it could take up to 100 days before they can look to abolish HIPs but it has to go through legislation first as it is still part of the EU directive. Also, the EPC forms part of the HIP so if they abolish the HIP then the EPC will go as well unless they have a separate EPC ACT which would take months or years to implement.

EPC's are staying, but the recommendations stated on the EPC on how to increase your energy rating are not enforced by anyone so if this is not enforced, what is the point in having the certificate!!

I have spoken to the Trading Standards who confirm that while HIPs are law they will still do spot checks and fine any EA/vendor who breaks the law.

Boris Johnson, who by the way, went to the same boarding school as Cameron, said that when he came into power he was going to scrap bendy buses in London ..........two years later bendy buses are still running !!

• 16 May 2010 12:51 PM

Time to move on.....and do our job.
Just bombard your Associations with demands that they take this up on your behalf.
Good luck!

• 15 May 2010 09:03 AM

Estate agents are funny.

• 14 May 2010 21:39 PM

Again, you turn this into a debate about HIPs. Its not. They are going - debate over. Stamp Duty, CGT are set in stone and are known entities.

HIPs have become undermined as red tape which will be abolished. Its the uncertainty that is the issue and the fact that this uncertainty has prompted people to break the law and remove a level playing field where compliance can be penalised commercially.

When a Government announces something, it must provide clear leadership and decision making.

I wont change your mind so I respectfully give up and wish you a good weekend, and offer my thanks for giving me something to do whilst on the train!

• 14 May 2010 18:36 PM

miffed, and in fact everyone on here that is having a little cry over HIPs. Do you think this new goverment has more to worrie about than HIP's? I do. Do you think HIP's are the single biggest threat to our industry? Im being called narrow minded by people who cant see past the Home information pack and what their competitors are getting away with. What about our ancient stamp duty system? what about capital gains? what about the slump in affordable housing. I would consider all of the above a bit more important than the fact Dave lost £3000. I'm a lone voice? I'm just one of thousands who are getting on with my job, being compliant and not suffering because of it. There are many things we should be lobbying parliament for at the moment and HIP's are not on the top of the list, full regulation of the industry should be, that would solve agents breaking the law. HIP's are irritating yes, but after all they are only a bit of red tape and a unnecessary evil.

• 14 May 2010 17:34 PM

Wardy - you cant offer a property until you have a HIP. Another agent did just that. The buyers says "I am not worried about seeing a HIP anyway - but they offered to me before you did?

How would you deal with that. Eiether you would have to break the law or not.

Or perhaps yopu would phone all you applicants to say "I cant tell you about a new property as that would be marketing, but if anyone else calls you, dont go and see the property I cant mention until I have the HIP you dont want to see"

Sorted.

• 14 May 2010 17:14 PM

Wardy - how could anyone have foreseen that another agent WAS going to break the Law - so how could anyone stop them from doing so? Are you sure you are in Estate Agency - you seem a lone voice with no practical experience of the real world.

• 14 May 2010 17:09 PM

if there is no risk then why did you let a competitor sell to one of your applicants? Thats got nothing to to with the law, thats just sour grapes. Like you say you either abide by the law or you dont. Narrow minded? you assume ive never worked london?

• 14 May 2010 16:48 PM

Wardy - I can email or text every applicant from my iPhone using VebraLive whilst on the valuation - so I don't see your point. The agent who has to wait in a busy, active market WILL lose out.

• 14 May 2010 16:46 PM

Wardy - as Dave said "AN Other agents took someone round later the SAME afternoon" - so you would have been done even if a HIP was ready in 24 hours.

Mate - give it up. You are wrong and in the minority over this.

Are you saying you always get your 2% and always sole agency? Do you drop to 1.75% on occasions to secure instructions? Do a few hundred quid not matter in your area because you are so good? Do you have 60 agents IN ONE ROAD competing for business with many offering 1%.

Fact - if you are a decent agency and have a decent instruction, you can get effective and immediate introduction of an applicant before the agent who waits even 24 hours for a HIP.

No one is blaming HIPs. We are blaming the fact that those who follow the Law ARE disadvantaged.

• 14 May 2010 16:43 PM

No Wardy - its not the fault of HIPs. Its the fault of the Government. The problem is this. Either its the Law which WILL be enforced, or it isn't. What the Government has done is create a perceived grey area. Whilst the Law still stands, its been undermined by the Government publicly announcing is a bad law that doesnt work and telling everyone the will abolish it. Stop being so narrow minded and just for once visit the real world.

Lots of agents have been breaking the Law already. What this has done is given them a mandate to so. Why would a vendor care? With the fees averaging £6000 in my neck of the woods and fines of £200, where is the risk to agents

Try working in Central London and see how you get on.

• 14 May 2010 16:35 PM

Miffed, sellers that need to sell quickly? I can get a partial market ready HIP done in 24hrs flat, often quicker than i can get the brochures finished, dont see your point.

• 14 May 2010 16:28 PM

It is an unfair advantage. Like Eric has said, the consumer is most confused. We've received several enquiries re HIPs, asking if they are needed. The best I could do is say a HIP would be required - not the answer they wanted. If an EA (an industry PROFESSIONAL)offers the seller to proceed without a HIP, the seller will think it is naturally "ok" as they have been advised to do this. It's the same as going into a pub and your mate giving you a free drink from behind the bar - you know its stealing, but you still feel its ok as someone else has controlled this. Wardy, you say that a good agent will still secure the property etc etc. However, other agents can twist this to make it look like the honest EAs are money grabbing - it works both ways. Offering your services without the inclusion of a HIP provides an unfair advantage. We know that the policing is poor of HIPs anyway, so certain agents will take their chances...to get that advantage!!

• 14 May 2010 16:24 PM

Dave,
same again! its all the fault of the home information pack? HIP's fault you had to go multi? HIP's fault another firms neg took the risk for the fee? HIP's fault the vendor had to get his own pack instead of an agent passing it to him at cost?

• 14 May 2010 16:23 PM

I agree; but its still breaking the law. You either break it of you dont, there aren't degrees of transgression.

Wardy = you are insane if you think that its just about fees, its not. What about vendors who need to sell quickly to get the house they want? Besides, do you never neg on commission to get an instruction? If a vendor thinks he can save a few hundred quid, why not?

• 14 May 2010 16:16 PM

One could consider ordering the Hip (properly) and start marketing immediately? A sensible compromise, in difficult times? Very unlikely any enforcement action would be taken then.

• 14 May 2010 15:55 PM

Wardy - Eric is right mate. We were jointly instructed on a property on Wednesday, HIP ordered directly by vendor - AN Other agents took someone round later the same afternoon having emailed the property out and now have an offer whilst we sat twiddling our thumbs waiting for the Pack which irritatingly is now available.

I can report them - yes. At worst they will get fined £200. The fee is £3,600.

I told the vendor that they were in breach of the Law, she said "Well, they said it wont matter as no-one checks and besides - they are the ones who get fined"

Bury your head in the sand mate - we too are professional - but we have to be commercial hence the need for a level playing field. Thats all we ask. You seem to think is about the £250 - it so isn't.

Your comment "HIPS are a legal requirement now. If you want to market a home you need one." We KNOW that, but it still doesnt help me when some will flout the Law. - PLUS the buyer was registered with us as well.

You are living in an idealogical world - maybe wherever you are is a nice little fluffy world, London ain't as Eric will know. People don't have time to care, especially when its not them taking the risk and Trading Standards have better things to do than investigate agents breaking a Law that is consigned to history.

• 14 May 2010 15:49 PM

Wardy - I didnt write the article. I was asked if the confusion over HIPs had been noticed on the front line - I provided a couple of anecdotes from 2 of my offices. Are we affected? Well, after explaining the situation, we secured both instructions and proved we are worth our salt - the point was to illustrate why we need clarification because the client is confused. Not us. Likewise, the point also made was that some agents are trying to use this confusion as a tool to get instructions. Some may succeed. There is NO doubt what is required in Law but there is likewise no doubt that there is uncertainty.

Many people on here will tell you that where 2 agents are instructed, the one who ignores first day marketing will have the upper hand even if the cost of the pack is not the issue. Will a vendor decline an offer simply because the pack is not yet available? Of course not.

Surely you cant agree that this state of inertia is acceptable and surely you agree that the Government needs to confirm its timetable as a matter of urgency for the benefit of the consumer.

• 14 May 2010 15:09 PM

Ace, I will start by quoting the story. ‘One agent affected, Eric Walker of Bushells,’
Why is he affected by this? The law is simple. HIPS are a legal requirement now. If you want to market a home you need one. When they are abolished then you wont. If there are agents willing to go ahead and market without one they are breaking the law, if they are willing to break the law then what else are they willing to let slide? That is what I would point out to any potential vendors and hey presto you now hold the higher moral and professional high ground. I see this as a positive, a one up on my competitors because I do it properly and within the law. What im NOT doing is having a whinge and saying its not fair. If Eric Walker was worth his salt he would over come this easily. If you have the potential to lose an instruction over £250 then you should be thinking of career change.
I was mearly trying to point that out, what he has done is go through my website stats to try and put me in my place and failed. Like I said at the top, Eric is affected by this not me.
‘We need clarification’ ‘We need clarification’ HIPs are necessary until a time when they are abolished. Clarified enough for you?

• 14 May 2010 14:56 PM

All who are members of or have connections with the RICS/NAEA etc. should bombard the head offices with demands for them to put whatever 'clout' they have behind this problem and get a decision one way or the other - quickly!

• 14 May 2010 14:47 PM

Wardy - your arrogance is actually entertaining. However, manners don't cost anything and you do look a little silly since Eric put you in your place. We all know that an agent offering to proceed without a HIP (saving MORE than the £250, as you should consider the total cost the agent would have been charging) are gaining an unfair advantage, this is a fact. Nothing more to it. It's not fair and clarification is needed asap.

• 14 May 2010 14:11 PM

"Realist" thanks for finding that so quickly!

The tune being played about HIPs seems to be getting less immediate and less confident regarding scrapping being the only result!

“set to review” – Sounds like a consultation is on the way!
“controversial Home Information Packs” – Sounds like there are differing opinions but none are confirmed!

From this release by the CLG and the point in the Coalition Agreement not being time specific I think HIPs will be here for a “WHILE”.

• 14 May 2010 13:49 PM

Another good one ice breaker!

• 14 May 2010 13:29 PM

Ok you know the routine from Elton and Kiki yesterday. Get The Clash on You Tube singing Should I Stay or Should I go. Gather round you computer and with angst and anger go for it!

Shapps you got to let us know
Will Hips stay or will Hips go?
If you say that they will die
Can you let us know the time
C’mon you got to let us know
Will Hips stay or will Hips go?

Always tease tease tease
You’re happy when we’re on our knees
One day is fine, next day is black
So if you want us off you’re back
Come on and let us know
Will Hips stay or will Hips go

Will Hips stay or will Hips go now?
Will Hips stay or will Hips go now?
If they go there won’t be trouble
An if they stay there will be double
So c’mon and let us know

The indecision’s bugging us
If you don’t want Hips set us free
Exactly what we’re supposed to do
Don’t you know we’re in the poo
So c’mon and let us know
Should we order or should we blow?

• 14 May 2010 13:00 PM

"Grant Shapps has been confirmed as the housing minister and is set to review the controversial Home Information Packs as part of his new brief" source CLG, seems far from confirmed to me...

• 14 May 2010 12:54 PM

as i said before eric, just a small new independant. Still 31,000 people a month seeing your site and realising you put zero effort into your property details is a lot.

• 14 May 2010 12:54 PM

Oh Wardy; Better to be thought a fool than to post and leave no room for doubt. No web ranking, 3 sites linking in, 25% relevance for title page to content, no description meta tag, no keyword meta tag, Link Popularity Index of 282 (ours is 9000+). What counts is traffic. I bet you wish you 31,000 visits this month viewing an average of 9.14 pages. and we have NEVER paid for a sponsored link. Works for me! Having said that, I concede that your site looks great and is really innovative and professional - its just a shame people cant find it.

• 14 May 2010 12:27 PM

I think you'll find that the EPC is already required by the Energy Performace of Buildings Regs 2007 regardless of whether HIPs are in or out - required "at the earliest opportunity and at latest before any contract for sale or rental is entered" - sounds pretty easy to understand...never mind EU legislation !!!

• 14 May 2010 12:17 PM

Nothing wrong with the SEO on my site thanks Eric, but if i was going to take advise from someone it would be a person who manages more that a few photos and a free floor plan. Shoddy work from someone who claims to be a master of the internet.
Whats your rightmove CTR Eric?

• 14 May 2010 12:06 PM

So HIPS are going, but isn't still going to be part of a EU mandate that all properties will still require a EPC?

• 14 May 2010 12:04 PM

Hey people can we keep post to about 5/6 lines tops, as it gets it boring to the middle and end.

• 14 May 2010 11:41 AM

Paul Smith advocated breaking Hip laws a couple of years ago and got his knuckles rapped then. The words spot and leopard spring to mind.

• 14 May 2010 11:12 AM

We all hate bureaucratic laws, but laws are laws. Any estate agent who either encourages their clients to break the law, or who works for a client who wants them to, deserves the ensuing grief. Shonkiness will out. I'll be talking to my local competitors and urging them to obey the law so we don't use this against each other.

• 14 May 2010 11:01 AM

All agents in my area are still saying they will not market without a HIP. At least that's what I was told when I called around pretending to be a seller.

• 14 May 2010 10:59 AM

For Paul Smith or any of the big hitters even to question whether or not we should obey the law is shameful. IT IS STILL THE LAW SO SHOULD BE OBEYED WITHOUT DOUBT OR QUESTION. I believe most of them are in favour of regulation and registering. Smith will train all his staff rules, regulations, best practice and the law - and then allow them to disregard them. Witness the 5 cases of breaching advertising standards etc. Talk about hypocrisy and double dealing. THEY represent the very worst face of estate agency. They just want to remove the independents from the business so that they can enlarge their slimy empires and impose their dictatorial, double standards on the business. Report law breakers of any sort to the rightful authorities and do not support any further quangos.

• 14 May 2010 10:43 AM

32% of all property to let or for sale on rightmove does NOT even have an epc done...so one must suspect that those for sale have not got a hip at the moment.Rightmove reported that it had been as high as 39% at one point last year.I reported some agents who weren't getting hips and the oft at the local authority said"we have no plans to take action on agents who are marketing properties without a hip in this area" but thanked me for bringing it to their attention!!!!I had hoped the recession would see off some of the un proffessional agents but all but 1or2 have remained(no doubt because of sharp practices)

• 14 May 2010 10:43 AM

The debate over whether to break the law or not, is similar to the debate over the original purpose of HIPs. The argument put forward by the sacked government was that it was to help the home buying process. The counter argument was that it was simply, and unnecessarily, vehicle for the EPC, which was unpopular when first announced. It has been surprising how many gullible estate agents, and unfortunately home-inspectors, bought into the spin. There will be agents that lose instructions because their overriding sense of righteousness will prevent them from breaking the law. It's not their fault, and they shouldn't be criticised. The rest of the industry will do what they think is best for their commercial success. They will also continue to dip into their client accounts occasionally, and put boards up where they haven't really, actually, sold a property. The OFT won't bother to police any of this too stringently, they never do. After all, its not really hurting anyone. Is it?

• 14 May 2010 10:30 AM

Good comeback Walker - Wardy learn some manners

• 14 May 2010 10:14 AM

Agents flouting the law- what a shock! The new Gov should listen to Which and other bodies seeking improvement to this shoddy sector- Get agents regulated and asap, there are too many cowboys right through the industry. Paul Smith's comments are disappointing- the law is there to be obeyed, for a leading industry Chief Exec to query the law is sending out the wrong message to his staff and the wider sector- extremely unprofessional I'm afraid, but at least its consistent with the rest of the estate agency industry.

• 14 May 2010 09:56 AM

Tarzan, what the hell is a HIP inspector? Shows how much attention you have paid to Hips over the last few years. Suggest you change you call sign to Cheeta, you silly monkey.

• 14 May 2010 09:45 AM

Whats the big deal? Where have you lot all been...with your heads in the sand? Vendors have been instructiong Agents to act without HIP for ages! Nothing new there however at least common sense has prevailed.

• 14 May 2010 09:40 AM

Flouting the HIP law!! Who would have thought?

• 14 May 2010 09:37 AM

Wardy - thank you for your kind offer. In return, if you would like me to help you get your website actually visible to search engines and properly designed for SEO, let me know. Check it out on Alexa.com and Submitit.com and you will see where you are going wrong. (P.S - we secured both instructions)

• 14 May 2010 09:35 AM

So is Eric walker suggesting that he is going to lose instructions over a £250 HIP? Maybe his listers need retraining.
Drop me a line Eric if you need your listing negs to be able to negotiate a fee £250 more than your competitors.

• 14 May 2010 09:28 AM

So, farewell then, Home Information Packs (HIPs). You were about as much use to homebuyers and sellers as a chocolate teapot. You were even worse value for people who spent time and money training to become HIP inspectors.

Now the coalition government says the housing market can get along perfectly well without you. Ant and Dec – sorry, Dave and Nick – say in their joint policy statement: “The parties agree to implement a full programme of measures to fulfil our ambitions for a low carbon and eco-friendly economy, including retention of energy performance certificates while scrapping HIPs.”

So that’s it, then. Into the recycling bin before you even had time to chip and flake, like other ill-considered home improvements. Not that there will be many mourners among homebuyers, sellers or anyone else.

• 14 May 2010 07:48 AM

VENDORS ARE CONFUSED! COME ON David Cameron WORK FAST AND GET RID, ITS COSTING US AGENTS INSTRUCTIONS WITH ALL THIS UNCERTANCY. DECICIVE ACTION IS WHAT WE THE PUBLIC AND UK AGENTS ALL NEED.

• 14 May 2010 07:43 AM