An extraordinary battle has come to the boil in the Domestic Energy Assessor world.
Furious DEAs say they have not been paid for months by Chris Whatcott, director of Express ECPs.
Some are preparing to march on his office in a demonstration of their anger. They claim his firm is able to offer cheap EPCs because, quite simply, he does not pay for them.
But Whatcott in turn alleges that the DEAs started the fight, and says that he and his staff have received death threats. He also says that images graphically expressing their opinions have appeared on various DEA websites.
Whatcott adds that DEAs have been telephoning his clients to claim that their payment terms are unfair, and getting them to rescind their credit card payments.
Whatcott says this is highly unprofessional.
In the midst of this, insurance cover has been withdrawn by Quidos, an accreditation company, for EPCs done under the controversial ‘reverse auction’ scheme practised by Express EPCs.
Whilst Whatcott accepts that some DEAs have not been paid, he said this was largely their fault, as their actions were taking up time that he could have spent processing their payments. He said he had been “bombarded with complaints and tirades”.
Whatcott says that when he set up Express EPC this June, the idea was to add bolt-on services, such as conveyancing, to use EPCs as leads for such services, and to build up successful relationships with estate agents.
He says that when the firm started, he was paying £40 per EPC. However, the price came down, to £35 and then £30.
Then, he claims, he was asked by DEAs to investigate setting up a reverse auction system. This means that when an EPC job comes in, it is put round to all DEAs who can bid for it. The lowest bid wins the job.
Whatcott said that a floor of £20 was initially put on it, but this has now dropped to £15.
He said this was perfectly acceptable to some DEAs – but not to others.
He said that one DEA, a surveyor, had successfully been able to convert leads at £15 per EPC to lucrative surveying work.
But he said that other DEAs had been furious, and that one had bought up 30 EPC jobs, purely to get customers to abort their payments.
“We have been receiving death threats,” Whatcott told EAT. “We are taking legal action.”
Quidos, an accreditation scheme, has withdrawn insurance cover for EPCs conducted after ‘reverse auctions’. Whatcott said this did not matter, as DEAs conducting work for his firm were covered by his own company’s insurance.
He said that he has now decided to work with only 80 local DEAs, who like the terms and conditions they are offered.
He added that he is now up to mid to end of July in terms of settling invoices.
Row explodes over pricing in energy assessor world
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Comments
He is up and running again.
www.epcnow.net
Mr Whatcott is keeping a low profile until some of the dust has settled, you would be better sending it to his home address.
Still no payment as yet. Solicitors letter goes out tomorrow along with a copy of the letter to the accounts departments saying they have 7 days to respond and then its a visit to the SAVI offices.
The Savi office is closed.
Sign on door reads as follows
This office is not yet open and we do not yet have any properties on the market.For any enquiries please email info@savi.co.uk
Maybe Mr Whatcott is converting the office into a coffee shop? Question is, if you paid for a coffee would you actually get one or would you just be left standing there minus your money?
Express-EPC would probably do much better in another industry and i for one would wish them all the best.
Seems Express EPC web site isnt on any more. Only a matter of time before another company is formed and this all happens again. I also understand Chris Whatcott has refurbished his nice SAVI office. Our money paying for another one of his scams maybe??????
There were rumours that the SAVI office had closed.
However, a IDEA committee member visited to office and can confirm that SAVI is alive and kicking with a new refurbished office....complete with white leather seating and lots of new equipment and signage!
Due to re-open soon the sign on the door said.
Not that this has anything to do with Mr "I have the same IP address as the SAVI office PC, but have nothing to do with SAVI" Whatcott?
There were rumours that the SAVI office had closed.
However, a IDEA committee member visited to office and can confirm that SAVI is alive and kicking with a new refurbished office....complete with white leather seating and lots of new equipment and signage!
Due to re-open soon the sign on the door said.
Not that this has anything to do with Mr "I have the same IP address as the SAVI office PC, but have nothing to do with SAVI" Whatcott?
There were rumours that the SAVI office had closed.
However, a IDEA committee member visited to office and can confirm that SAVI is alive and kicking with a new refurbished office....complete with white leather seating and lots of new equipment and signage!
Due to re-open soon the sign on the door said.
Not that this has anything to do with Mr "I have the same IP address as the SAVI office PC, but have nothing to do with SAVI" Whatcott?
Well done E A T for exposing this fraudster. I hope you can do a follow up article. Of course I have sympathy for the DEAs who are owed money. I am just disappointed that they felt the need to chase cheap work. The majority of panels make money out of your expertise. You are worth more than that. Good luck. Where are all any of the satisfied DEAs in defence of Whatacrap? There can't be many/any! David
How many times in the last 4 months have i got this mail
Hi,
Your email has been received and a member of our accounts team will
reply to your email shortly.
We appreciate your patience whilst we resolve our invoicing issues.
Regards
Customer Services
All express has to do is pay up and this all stops
Id love to see the follow up to this. Give Chris Whatcott a chance to tell more lies about paying people and being slightly behind with payments going out for mid July. Like I said and many others, my invoices date before this date and still nothing in my account. Today I have sent letters to the clients i did EPCs for stating their EPCs would be cancelled unless I recieved payment. They also have my terms and conditions attached saying they are responsible for payment to me, even though they may have made payment throuh a third party. I dont like doing this, but seems the only alternative now
It wouldnt be the first time that Mr Whatcott posed as a DEA defending Express-EPC ( see home inspectors forum)
If he has 80 DEA's that are happy working for him, why hasnt any of them posted on any energy assesors forums to balance out the debate?
All of us in the industry look forward to the next article which sheds a little more light on this matter from the Domestic Energy Assesors point of views as its us that are out of pocket.
unfortuatley, no proof. Just seems this person has alot to say about how good express epc and chris whatcott is. Especially when he can pick out posts from other forums and post them to here. Its either him or one of his staff.
Do you have proof of this?
If so please email me?
energyinspector@aol.com
Krysmurphy = Chris Whatcott
Seems, im not the only one owed money from this company. Id also like further details on how to get in contact with Chris Whatcott. I need to know where to send my solicitors letter to as the london address is only a forwarding postal address. I only took work on from this company as I have 4 kids and a wife to support and with work as bad as it is, i stupidly thought any work is better than no work at all, even if it was for £25 to do a survey within walking distance. Now having done the work, im out of pocket with the lodgement fees and sick and tired of sending mails with no response. So ESTATE AGENT TODAY, look at what Mr Whatcott has to say and look at what we have to say. Id appreciate a phone number or an address for Mr Whatcott in order to resolve this matter in an amicable way. Someone must know where he is, if people were considering a march on his office. So again, if anyone can shed some more light on this, please let me know. As Mr Whatcott is probably reading all this, maybe he could contact people directly to let them know he is paying them and not tell ESTATE AGENTS TODAY stories of how he is behind on making payments to DEAs. Im owed money since the beginning of June
Unfortuatley, not all accreditadation bodies will agree with you cancelling a certificate without a geniune reason. As far as a client is concerned, they have paid for a service, yet if the DEA cancels it due to them not being paid, there might be legal implications for the DEA and without the back up from the accredited body, leaves the DEA out there on a limb. Having said that, I shall be canceling all nine of the EPCs that I have done, but I shall first be advising the client of my intention to do so, and give them the oppourtunity to make payment directly to me. This might not be looked on positively by the clients cos at the end of the day they have to re coup their money back from Express epc. On my letters , Ive included MY terms and conditions in regards to issued epcs which state that the EPC is the property of the company that has issued the certificate and is not valid unless payment has been received by the company and also that the client is ultimatley responsible for the payment to the person or company named on the certificate regardless of weather they have made payment to a third party. A given time is given for them to make payment, after this time all certs will be cancelled and will no longer be valid, requireing them to instruct for a new EPC to be issued.
This is what Express EPC and Chris Whatcott is doing to this industry and he needs to get his act together before he causes more negativity to this industry
"Krysmurphy" said "I have worked with these guys and they aint half as bad as people say."
Not half as bad. Still pretty bad though, eh, Krys!
Its a simple matter Mr Whatcott, you took payment from your clients, we provided the service for a rate below what you charged so you pay the rate we agreed to and the matter is over, SIMPLE
Im just another DEA who hasnt been paid for 9 instructions completed and 3 were completed in June with another 3 in July and the last 3 in August, then it come to me, he doesnt pay the DEAs, so I stopped doing the work. I cant understand DEA accepting work for £15 when they incur fees of around £9. Oh yes, something Mr Whatcott said about generating other work. Hmmmmmm, I spend whatever time i have chasing up express EPC for money owed to me. I received a mail one time saying payment had been made for 4 instructions and payment would clear in 3 working days, lol, 2 months later still no payment has gone into my account. I have contacted consumer direct on 08454 04 05 06 and have reported everything to them including mr Whatcotts involvement with other companies, SAVI being another suspect website. All information is being put together and the more people that complain to consumer direct the more likely action will be taken from Trading standards. Companies house were also interested to know that a limited company had set up under a forwarding postal address. I have requested a service address which I am assumming will be another postal forwarding address. Inland revenue also know about this guy, i believe also watchdog are investigating and Mr Whatcott could find himself being a target for the rouge traders. I do not agree with any violence that may be directed at Mr Whatcott or his staff, but fear that he has put himself into a position which I certainly would not like to be in. And certainly if i were one of his staff, id be very concerned. I have contacted putterills who said he longer works there but SAVI seems to to be place to get this guy.
Im just another DEA who hasnt been paid for 9 instructions completed and 3 were completed in June with another 3 in July and the last 3 in August, then it come to me, he doesnt pay the DEAs, so I stopped doing the work. I cant understand DEA accepting work for £15 when they incur fees of around £9. Oh yes, something Mr Whatcott said about generating other work. Hmmmmmm, I spend whatever time i have chasing up express EPC for money owed to me. I received a mail one time saying payment had been made for 4 instructions and payment would clear in 3 working days, lol, 2 months later still no payment has gone into my account. I have contacted consumer direct on 08454 04 05 06 and have reported everything to them including mr Whatcotts involvement with other companies, SAVI being another suspect website. All information is being put together and the more people that complain to consumer direct the more likely action will be taken from Trading standards. Companies house were also interested to know that a limited company had set up under a forwarding postal address. I have requested a service address which I am assumming will be another postal forwarding address. Inland revenue also know about this guy, i believe also watchdog are investigating and Mr Whatcott could find himself being a target for the rouge traders. I do not agree with any violence that may be directed at Mr Whatcott or his staff, but fear that he has put himself into a position which I certainly would not like to be in. And certainly if i were one of his staff, id be very concerned. I have contacted putterills who said he longer works there but SAVI seems to to be place to get this guy.
It amazes me, they have 2 permanent staff members who deal with the accounts and yet cannot keep up with the invoicing and payments of 80 DEA's. The payment from customers are automated and the invoices from the DEA's are self generated on completition. What the hell are they doing? 2 people have only managed to pay for 6 weeks work in the last 5 months. Meaning if you did a job today it would take about 2 years to receive payment. Somebody in the above article was telling lies. Another string to your bow Mr Whatcott, fantasy writer.
Perhaps Estate Agent Today could do a follow up piece with Mr Whatcott.
He has been economical with the truth by saying Express-EPC is up to date with invoices to mid-July. They only began trading under that name at the very end of May (when HIPS were suspended).
I don't think being up to date for the first 6 weeks or so is much of a defence.
Secondly, contrary to what he claims, I am owed money for work carried out prior to mid-July.
I also have unpaid invoices for the period they were trading as HIP-save.
The Institute of Domestic Energy Assessors fully support this well balanced report from EAT.
The institute provided much of the evidence to enable the publishing of this article possible.
IDEA investigated Mr Whatcott, HIPSAVE and HIPSERVE last year. As a result IDEA issued a “Warning” to our members as to the problems they may face over payment.
The institute maintains a “Listing” of non paying companies and their directors and “Phoenix” companies.
Thank you Rosalind, for helping expose Mr Whatcott and his dealings. I hope Energy Assessors take note as do estate agents and letting agents/landlords.
“Cheap” is not always best. “You get what you pay for”...and in some cases..you do not even get it.
The best deals and top service can be provided by a local DEA.
Google:
findaDEA IDEA
The Institute of Domestic Energy Assessors fully support this well balanced report from EAT.
The institute provided much of the evidence to enable the publishing of this article possible.
IDEA investigated Mr Whatcott, HIPSAVE and HIPSERVE last year. As a result IDEA issued a “Warning” to our members as to the problems they may face over payment.
The institute maintains a “Listing” of non paying companies and their directors and “Phoenix” companies.
Thank you Rosalind, for helping expose Mr Whatcott and his dealings. I hope Energy Assessors take note as do estate agents and letting agents/landlords.
“Cheap” is not always best. “You get what you pay for”...and in some cases..you do not even get it.
The best deals and top service can be provided by a local DEA.
Google:
findaDEA IDEA
The Institute of Domestic Energy Assessors fully support this well balanced report from EAT.
The institute provided much of the evidence to enable the publishing of this article possible.
IDEA investigated Mr Whatcott, HIPSAVE and HIPSERVE last year. As a result IDEA issued a “Warning” to our members as to the problems they may face over payment.
The institute maintains a “Listing” of non paying companies and their directors and “Phoenix” companies.
Thank you Rosalind, for helping expose Mr Whatcott and his dealings. I hope Energy Assessors take note as do estate agents and letting agents/landlords.
“Cheap” is not always best. “You get what you pay for”...and in some cases..you do not even get it.
The best deals and top service can be provided by a local DEA.
Google:
findaDEA IDEA
Lets not forget the homeowner that can get caught up in this mess?
If a DEA is not paid for an EPC, he can cancel it, leaving the homeowner to pay for another EPC.
Oh dear - there must be something wrong with my internet connection - i have somehow found myself in one of those facinating DEA forums.............
Jonnie
Guess what - my invoice from early July has also been overlooked! I wonder how that could possibly have happened....
I took one job, then heard about the reputation of not paying so, despite numerous offers to bid, never have again. I have the feeling it would be quicker to list those who HAVE been paid!
HIPSERVE - This company still owes me money from November last year, I tried ringing them earlier this year when surprisingly one of the staff attended to my call and assured me I would be paid 6 weeks later no payment I phoned again and the same person assured me they have made a mistake and would deffinately pay up, they havent to this day. I did try to call them again this time the number was dead. I have also sent many emails no reply.
A message to Chris Whatcott on behalf of all DEA's who havent been PAID you are a DISGRACE to our Industry and should be ashamed of yourself and your cowboy tactics no professionalism at all. I will be making an official complaint to the appropriate bodies to take neccessary action against you...
Yes the OFT and PO recieved many complaints from DEAs and from the Institute of Domestic Energy Assessors (IDEA.
Krysmurphy, Chris wallcott in disguise perhaps? This company are the pits and they don't pay and they don't care about the industry. Neither do you by the sounds of things.
Was this the same Mr Whatcott who had his HIP provider status suspended by PCCB in March? Is this the same Express-EPC who were asked to remove OFT and Property Ombudsman links from their website? Is this the Mr Whatcott who had his Putterills Estate Agency franchise cancelled earlier this year? I thought so.
Notwithstanding all the above comments,or detracting from the message being given.Can someone from Estate Agent Today, tell me how they got a phone number for Mr Whatcott to be able to comment. Can you send me that Phone number , or at the very least, ring on our behalfand ask him to contact us all personnally to tell us when if ever he will pay us, (you have all email addresses, as do Express)
How many panels opperate in England? How many others are in this situation? Why do you think this is? It doesnt take genius to see that there is something very wrong here. All these DEA's from differnt parts of the country, all with a mission to discredit Mr Whatcott.How many CCJ's against his name? CCJ's that people have to pay for to be issued.
Firstly, its irrelevant what the price is ,the bottom line is that Express-EPC owe people money.
Secondly (Krysmurphy), they are actually as bad as people are saying. A company that doesnt reply to emails, answer telephone calls and returns recorded delivery letters as "not known at this address"
This situation is totally of Mr Whatcotts making. People arent posting on many websites for fun, they want their money. Its corrupt directors that are damaging everyone involved. Im owed money from the start of July. There are people on the net who have also paid for certificates and never received the product so customers are out of pocket too. I went to the Savi office in Hitchin, Mr Whatcott wouldnt talk to me and one of his staff claimed they didnt know who he was or of Express-EPC !
Now tell me that is normal? This real is a Rogue Trader in every sense of the expression.
Tell you what, Krysmurphy, that's some defending of Whatacock that you're doing there! What's he like in bed, anyway?
As a fellow DEA I have no sympathy for those who are owed money. They should have never signed up to the 'reverse auction' in the first place. I received 2 unsolicited requests from EPC Express and rang them to remove me from their list. I told them how I felt about their service!Coincidently, I am accredited with Quidos and fully support their withdrawl of insurance for any DEA who enters this market. The only person who benefits is Whatacrap, who is making a nonsence out of the industry and profit out of hard working DEAs. If those he 'uses' are so desperate for work, I suggest they go off and retrain for something else, as they are only helping to drag the price of an EPC down to an uncommercial level. I have no problem with competition, but EPC Express is taking the p**s and these DEAs are joining in. No energy assessor can afford to travel to a property, do a full and accurate assessment, including loft inspection and then produce a accurate document for £15/20. It is not fair on the people who, have either paid for or will rely on the EPC. David
Gives you an idea of just how professional this industry really is. I have worked with these guys and they aint half as bad as people say. It would seem a few bad apples are upsetting the applecart but do the math guys...... According to sources we needed 2,000 assessors but have in excess of 12,000 with no let up in the numbers of people training. A market economy is all about supply and demand. Their system is a free pricing system. If you want to work for £15 so be it if you dont then dont. Simple really. Whats there not to get ?? Oh and a quick look on the net and i have identified a number of other reverse auctions websites. Maybe we should embrace change and see how we can all work together in complete harmony. The world would be a much nicer place.
Another post in another forum
--------
Re: EXPRESS-EPC !!!!
Not that I could ever suggest this but............... if someone really wanted to hurt this guys wallet they only need to google "EPC" and click on the advertised link (one of the 3 at the top), if somebody did this on different searches and used their IPhone etc I recon it would cost the...
by ss2122
on Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:12 pm
Forum: Business To Business Lounge - (General Chat)
Topic: EXPRESS-EPC !!!!
Replies: 31
Views: 1805
Another comment left by a dea in a forum
------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: EXPRESS-EPC !!!!
As I said earlier, If you want to stop Express EPC, then do the following; Put in a silly bid of £1.00, get the instruction, get the clients contact details, call the client and inform it is a scam.
by eddief
on Thu Sep 23, 2010 5:57 pm
Forum: Business To Business Lounge - (General Chat)
Topic: EXPRESS-EPC !!!!
Replies: 31
Views: 1805
Another comment from a popular home inspector forum
----------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Express EPCs
Hey that's good. I just did a Google search for "Whore EPC" on Google and Express EPCs came in top of the listings*
Weird really as I can think of half a dozen other firms deserving that honour!
*well top of the sponsored links, that'll do for the trail of my post.
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Re: Finally an express epc dutch auction
just bid on another one... hope I get it, as I wont be doing that one either....
I suggest everyone does this.. discredit them with their clients... what a shambles this business is
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Express EPCs
All you have to do is:
Bid in order to win.
Phone client; tell them to cancel the card payment.
I have not received a single email since.
by John Oxley
on Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:31 pm
Forum: Business To Business Lounge - (General Chat)
Topic: Express EPCs
Replies: 86
Views: 4297
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Finally an express epc dutch auction
by kevintye on Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:19 am
Chris was also the 'man' behind HIPSAVE, & HIPSERVE. I do recall this being the exact same situation when he was operating under those names. When is somebody going to finally put this cheat out of business for good? He gets a bad reputation in one company name so changes it to another - and so it goes on.
Just goes to show you cant do work for a panel and expect to get a good deal out of it. No one can seriously do a qulity job for a stupidly low price. I know someone who reportedly did an EPC for £30 for one of the major panels, and he found out that the client was being charged £180 ! Come on DEAs. Stop this futile downward pricing of our services. The EPC is a valuable document. (even if the politicians and public dont know it yet). Charge a sensible price for the few hours work that each one takes(to do property with checking and up load and documenting your decision making) Anything under £75 is sheer commercial suicide!
Oh, dear. It seems people on this forum are not very impressed with Chris Whatacock.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Chris Whatcott - the idiot
by neilkurz on Mon Oct 11, 2010 8:17 pm
I'm thinking of beating Whatcott to death. With a dictionary.
Don't kid a kidder Chris, I'll be past the girl on the front-desk before you've even had time to stand up.
Commercial Energy Assessor
Code for Sustainable Homes Consultant
Do these overdue payments include those from HIPSAVE and HIPSERVE, or just EXPRESS?
And Mr W still has not payed up!
If they are up to mid July for payments two points:
I have an outstanding invoice for June; and
mid July to mid October slightly longer than the 30 day payment period promised when i worked for them.
I have not threatened Express EPC's so am not in that group; but have failed to get anything from them but promises and requests to wait 2 weeks.
I would appreciate his comments, not his tirade against DEA's whom he has mislead.
Can these DEAs not realise that by accepting EPC instructions at £15 they are in effect paying Mr Whatcott more than what they are receiving since Express EPC charge £40 to the customer! Why do they expect support from other DEAs who do realise this and refuse to line Mr Whatcott's pockets and de-valuing the EPC at the same time?
I loved Whatcott's comment "We are taking legal action". Here is the problem, lots of people have already and are taking legal action against him. The copies of the many CCJs (for failing to pay DEAs) are in circulation amongst the DEA community. Presumably the only people who haven't seen the CCJs are the 80 DEAs who have agreed to work with Whatcott in the future- More fool them!
I'm afraid death threats are wasted on this particular scammer. He's been "at it" for over 2 years with a variety of trading names including HIP-Save, HIPServe, SAVI and various EPC names including EPCExpress. Too many people have been ripped off and lied to for Whatcott to have any believable defence. Are the gallows available this weekend?