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News Story
EPCs are 'strewn with schoolboy errors'
Monday 11th January 2010Dodgy Energy Performance Certificates are being issued that are not worth the paper they are written on.
They are ‘strewn with schoolboy errors’ and ‘glaring omissions’, according to Communities and Local Government, in a warning to the accreditation schemes that are meant to police the regime.
CLG has accused the schemes of failing to catch unacceptable or invalid EPCs, and of allowing Domestic Energy Assessors (DEAs) to lodge reports when their membership has run out, or if they have been expelled from other accreditation schemes for disciplinary reasons.
In a letter from CLG, written to the accreditation schemes and leaked to the website Home Inspectors Forum, CLG also announces tougher disciplinary procedures that will now face the schemes if they fail to uphold standards.
There will now be spot checks and mystery shopping.
According to one of the accreditation schemes, NHER, more than half its DEAs have lodged less than 75 EPCs.
Separately, a leading EPC provider has warned that false economies are being made on ‘cheap as chips’ Domestic Energy Assessor (DEA) services and that it is unclear where the agent’s liability stands, if the agent has commissioned the EPC.
Greg Elliott, group operations director of Green Energy Matters, said cases are beginning to come through where the DEA has got it wrong.
He said: “You can typically expect an out-of-court settlement of, say, £4,000 where an EPC stated that there was no double glazing when there was, or for £3,000 when the assessor got the type of boiler wrong.”
Elliott said that faults in the EPC might not come to light in time for householders to claim on the DEA’s professional indemnity insurance. He warned that the insurance might have run out, and the DEA “might have gone back to teaching”.
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Posted By Eamonn Evans on Tuesday 12th January 2010 15:47:31
 Get Profile | Dear Pee Bee...many thanks for your post and I am happy to give the clarification
I think my industry sadly has to get worse before it gets better...the fault has been the Training Companies who have "cashed" in on a vast sector of people with redundancies or trying to better themselves...some of these people I agree are not cut out for the job or self employment....I always chuckle at the Driving School ads on the TV....earn up to £30K a year !!! it sound familiar as I saw an Ad in the paper last month advertising for a lucrative career in Energy Assessments--earn up to £1500 per assessment...what they failed to mention that at that fee it would be a level 4 commercially qualified assessment and be very very rare !!!...as with driving instructors there will be more Assessors than there are properties on the market !! A lot of Assessors will and have left the industry (I hope I dont become one of them !! ) because they cant make it work or cannot do the job but in a fledgling industry thrust onto the scene this is hardly surprising. I emplore all Agents to find a good Assessor pay him/her a reasonable fee for a good job - hour on site-hour at desktop and travelling time/expense and build a professional relationship...EPCs are European Law and will not go away easily |
Posted By PeeBee on Tuesday 12th January 2010 15:32:54
Get Profile | Eamonn - thank you for clearing that up. Both points. Am I slightly ignorant of the nuts'n'bolts of how an EPC s formulated - yes is the answer. But compared to the vast majority of purchasers, vendors, landlords and tenants I am up there with you "assumed to be degree level" boys (there's that 'assumed' word again...). This is my point - those who these 'authoratitive' certificates relate to have nothing to go on, other than a fridge scale which may (or may not) be accurate. More likely not, I suspect... With regard to the latter part of your post, Eamonn, I take it you are referring to others who are less accepting of DEAs than myself. As I have stated more than once, it is the system that is wrong, not the vast majority of those who work within it - and that goes for the entire industry if we are all honest about it! |
Posted By eamonn evans on Tuesday 12th January 2010 14:42:42
Get Profile | Sorry that posted before I could finish
All Domestic Energy Assessments are NON INVASIVE...imagine the uproar if we started drilling holes !!!!....The assumption about insulation is for those areas that we cannot get access to...loft voids with no access/ cavity walls that do not show any signs of retro cavity fill..it is then that the expertise of the Assessor comes into place who must identify the age of construction of the property or an extension and as such apply the Building Regs of that time...the assumption is that providing the element conformed to those Regs then the appropriate assumption can be made on insulation levels....ie a 1930s cavity wall will have no insulation....a 1985 cavity wall is assumed to have a level but not as good as a 1995 etc etc. I spend a lot of time on researching a property on planning portals and calling Building Control and Planning Departments to back up my visual inspection....but assessors being paid peanuts would likely not be as thorough as me !!!....you get what you pay for.....have you ever bothered to ask your Assessor what he does and how he does it or like many Agents do you treat them as the lowest of the low...time to build a professional relationship methinks...and I am not a White Van Man...I have been self employed all my life and for 25 years I ran a chain of retail outlets with staff, vehicles whilst building up a portfolio of properties which is where my background on property knowledge has come from....I can assure all that my training was not simple as I took the Home Inspector Qualification and assumed to be degree level |
Posted By Eamonn Evans on Tuesday 12th January 2010 14:28:56
Get Profile | Dear Pee Bee
In answer to your point about the word "assumed" you clearly do not have an understanding about the process using RdSAP (reduced data standard assessment proceedure) |
Posted By wooden top on Tuesday 12th January 2010 13:57:24
Get Profile | As to what price an EPC cost's has got anything to do with a DEA not recording double glazing or the wrong type of boiler or missing the obvious large extention, beats me! What did you expect when "white van man" was being encouraged to become a DEA by the government for a system that was not in place to cope. I only had to look at the people walking through the local accreditation door to see that these complaints are no suprise and nothing to do with estate agents or HIP supppliers. These complaints are plain simple people doing a job they are not competant to perform (says alot about the exam required) and lack of mind set to be professional. |
Posted By PeeBee on Tuesday 12th January 2010 10:24:10
Get Profile | On the average EPC I commission, I see the word "(assumed)" appear at least twice on the section relating entitled 'Summary of this home's energy performance related features. NEVER have I seen one without the word being used at least once. So if a DEA is 'assuming' that walls are insulated; that solid floors are also insulated, how can the EPC be accurate? More's to the point - how many aren't even putting '(assumed)' on their reports? But, come on, people - the whole thing is not - never has been - the fault of the DEAs. They took a job, offering good money - just like us all. If their training is at fault, then you can't blame them. Only if they are knowingly making it up and committing it to print is there a true problem. We will get nowhere whipping the horse when the cart is broken... (RichardJeffrey - is THIS PeeBee post acceptable under your particular standards?) |
Posted By Eamonn Evans on Monday 11th January 2010 18:34:34
Get Profile | Yes as an Energy Assessor I do have a vested interest but my main concern is that the job is done properly and as a full time professional I have carried out over 750 assessments....none of which I have ever had a complaint about and stand square behind each report for accuaracy and I back each assessment up with a full set of site notes that can I can refer to a later stage.
In order to be able to stay in this profession and continue to supply accurate EPCs I cannot afford to go down the route of £30 per assessment as I would need at least 4 a day and there just isn't that level of work in my area but if there was an optimistic projection would be) £30 less lodgement fee = £23 x 4 = £92 x 230 working days = £21160 LESS running a motor vehicle £4000 less office expenses £2000 =£15160 mmmmmm!!!! IF ONE WAS TO COMMISSION A GAS SAFETY CERTIFICATE WOULD YOU CONSIDER A FEE OF £10 .....or would you think that was a bit cheap for a professional job....IF AN ESTATE AGENT OFFERED TO SELL YOUR HOUSE FOR £100...would you think there may be a good level of service ??? The main purpose of the EPC is to give potential buyers or Tenants added information which in a well insualted property with a good form of heating should make one property stand out from another in the open market....if you are potentially going to purchase a poorer performing property it could give you the ability to negotiate on the asking price. I have carried out many assessments in the rental sector where the landlord has not installed any fixed heating system, loft insulation and in most these instances the windows are single glazed....the landlord does not pay the fuel bills so why should he bother....perhaps given the right encouragement by Agents both Tenants and Landlords would seek to reduce their carbon footprint (which benefits us all) and move to keep tenants out of fuel poverty which has a kick back on the Landlord receiving his rent on time |
Posted By AceofSpades on Monday 11th January 2010 17:35:12
Get Profile | The blame for this mess is scattered all over the place. Far too many DEAs 'trained' for the work that there physically is.
Cowboys cashing in for the short term training Tom, Dick and Harry with the promise of earning £40k plus! DEAs have been lead up the garden path, but it seems that questions haven't really been asked along the way, which is crazy. Agents, hip providers AND DEAs have collectively de-valued the EPC, which is worthless in some cases. I hope that this situation can have some control and direction restored. |
Posted By Ray Evans of Sheringham (36 years as a professional) on Monday 11th January 2010 17:32:21
Get Profile | Eamonn Evans,
As a vested interest person I understand your feelings. However, it depends on whether the nonsense is required at all and I am of the opinion that it is not. I would always use my own judgement. |
Posted By Eamonn Evans on Monday 11th January 2010 15:52:59
Get Profile | Sadly outsiders to the energy assessment industry have been knocking the EPC since it's inception with the popular myth that no-one reads or takes any notice. With some Estate Agents looking for the best deal in earning commissions out of every HIP sold the industry has been led down the path of national panels trying to procure business from the Estate Agents by cutting costs...the only cost they can really cut is the fee to an oversubscribed pool of Energy Assessors....some of which I am sure have cut corners because these fees just do not add up to a self employed "business model"...YOU CANNOT MAKE A LIVING OUT OF £30 per inspection whilst running a car and office with associated costs...The Industry needs to level out and Energy Assessors need to be full time and professional. Estate Agents and property professionals need to abandon the national solution and tying to max on a commission and find a good local assessor ....interview him/her find out their experience, see if they can offer a fast efficient solution to providing a HIP AND BUILD ON A BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP THAT WILL BRING ABOUT ACCURATE EPCS AND TRUST BETWEEN ASSESSOR-AGENT and CLIENT |
Posted By Darrin Carter on Monday 11th January 2010 13:57:41
See Profile or Message Darrin Carter | Kevin not surprised with the amount of spelling and grammar mistakes in one sentence !! |
Posted By Ray Evans of Sheringham on Monday 11th January 2010 12:32:34
Get Profile | There are too many poorly educated and trained DEA's. Dozens of so-called 'trainers' jumped onto a 'bandwagon' to promise untold wealth to those they 'trained'.
Another flawed piece of EU legislation. I would not trust any EPC, I would make my own judgement! |
Posted By Jon Parkes on Monday 11th January 2010 11:56:41
Get Profile | Simple facts are that there are too many DEAs, too many accrediaition schemes and all kinds of spivs raking it in the industry some ways like the Wild West.
There are some good property proffesionals doing EPCs and there are some that were doing a different job two weeks previously. Unfortunately no on complains if they have an accurate EPC. |
Posted By Integra on Monday 11th January 2010 11:53:33
Get Profile | Andy - I disagree, EPCs are fit for purpose but, like anything, only if carried out properly by well trained, qualified and professional DEAs.
Very soon we will have websites with search engines giving a search option based on EPC ratings whcih, in a market with more choice, may start to make more of a difference to a buyer/tenant. |
Posted By Andy on Monday 11th January 2010 11:25:57
Get Profile | EPC are not fit for purpose the whole concept of grading existing properties is a flawed idea. O.k for brand new properties which would be covered by Building Regulations anyway. I think there is a strong case for abolishing EPC, the money would be better spent on grants for the insulation of older housing stock |
Posted By Integra on Monday 11th January 2010 10:19:07
Get Profile | Peanuts and monkeys may have something to do with this. The industry has driven down the price of EPCs to such an extent that it is difficult for a DEA to make them financially viable and this will tempt weak DEAs into cutting corners or for the actual quality of DEA to be poor in the first instance. Obviously the accreditation schemes have a responsibility to police. I believe Elmhurst for example monitor around 2% of submitted EPCs. |
Posted By MyHeadHurts on Monday 11th January 2010 10:18:48
See Profile or Message Kevin Jones | This is what you get for a £28.50 EPC. The training is poor and the exam is to easy. I do over 200 epc a year and there is no doubut that I learnt on the job so early EPC,s could easliy have errors. |
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