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Today's Headlines:
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House prices went up slightly – by 0.4% – in July, the Land Registry has reported. It
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Net lending plummeted in July to the second lowest monthly figure since records began in 1993,
Henry Pryor Blog
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Welcome to a new monthly blog by Henry Pryor, estate agent turned entrepreneur, inventor and expert
Rightmove profits climb 39% as more agents sign up
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The proportion of mortgages being taken out for purchases, as opposed to remortgages, is at its
Conveyancing Today
Another HIPs provider fighting for its future
Wednesday 3rd February 2010Another HIP provider appears to be facing trouble after suppliers were warned to take extreme care when dealing with the firm, HIP HIP Hooray.
Jim Gillespie of the Institute of Domestic Energy Assessors (IDEA) told members by email that if they had not been paid, they could consider ways of recouping money.
IDEA has already warned of other HIP firms that have left assessors unpaid.
HIP HIP Hooray is also no longer a member of trade association AHIPP, said director general Mike Ockenden. It had not paid its subscription renewal and, as from last week, no longer belonged, he said.
An external source told us that HIP HIP Hooray had not paid DEAs for work in December, and that last week, staff had not received their full salaries for January.
The company – which had set out to be one of the big-hitters in the HIP industry, and which was formed alongside a sister organisation, Home Inspector Training – was founded by Allen Jackson.
It has apparently had two different owners since. This week, talks were thought to be going on with a possible new investor to secure its future
Yesterday afternoon, staff were continuing to work as normal through the crisis, answering telephones and dealing with customers.
Ockenden said: “It will be very sad if DEAs or search providers do suffer. Our main concern is that consumers are not also affected.”
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Posted By Soapbox on Friday 5th February 2010 12:29:48
 Get Profile | Do you think that Shapps or any of the Tory Toffs give a stuff about their pledge to scrap HIPs and the effect it is already having on our fragile industry? It's estimated that circa 10,000 HIP related jobs will be lost - not to mention all the poor DEA's who are left with unpaid invoices for EPC work they have done for pack providers every time another one goes bust. |
Posted By Chief on Thursday 4th February 2010 15:54:07
Get Profile | Hi PeeBee,
All good points very well put. I also have sympathy for HiP companies, but it just cannot be right that they get paid upfront by the consumer and in many cases have no intention of paying for the services on which they instruct. There is only so much money you can write off before it too grossly affects your business. I have chased one miscreant around the legal system only to find he has phoenixed 4 times. i gave up in the end as the legal costs were spiraling and I did inform AHIPP of which he was a member only to get the response, "Nothing to do with us" Its disgraceful and not in ours, AHIPPS or the consumers interest. |
Posted By nicksnr on Thursday 4th February 2010 15:32:06
Get Profile | That will be the Birmingham City Council who are trying to put the competition out of business in stead of improving their own service to clients. I was unaware that they were Hip providers but if they are they will be about as good as every thing else BCC produce. |
Posted By pimpin' ain't easy on Thursday 4th February 2010 15:21:46
Get Profile | would that be Steve Gosling of Birmingham Land Charges? |
Posted By hippy shake on Thursday 4th February 2010 15:10:35
See Profile or Message Hippy Shake | Interesting , of course your local council will always be there, why go to someone who does not know what they are doing? or is the money worth it |
Posted By Seldom Lucid on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 23:05:38
Get Profile | forgot to mention they are AHIPP members, so we can expect an MO statement on consumers protection and a phoenix within hours.
|
Posted By Seldom Lucid on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 23:03:18
Get Profile | there is a company report doing the rounds within the search industry - which details a HIP Providers debenture and awful trading history. it's more than likely them. |
Posted By Agatha Crusty on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 22:50:57
Get Profile | yeah, yeah, yeah which HIP provider will be the next to go?? |
Posted By PeeBee on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 22:44:20
Get Profile | Chief: Thank you for clearing that up for me. I was honestly beginning to doubt my own sanity - until Mr Pali confirmed you had lost him also...! I see where you are coming from, but I must question as to why you believe this to be an 'intellectual rights' issue. As far as i am aware, nowhere on any HIP does it state whether the document is 'owned' by the vendor; the Agent; the HIP provider, or anyone else for that matter. As far as vendor is concerned, he has complied with the Law and ordered the HIP. Whether he has paid for it or not never enters into the equation - and 100% of those in such a situation will be blissfully unaware that someone else owns the 'rights' to certain parts of the said document. Will the vendors' conveyancer know? Or the purchaser? Or their Conveyancer? Will it make a tuppence worth of difference? HIP providers have had an incredibly rough ride. They have bore the brunt of the anger from pretty much everyone, when the real villain in this charade of flawed legislature is the equally flawed Government. For the majority of people involved in this new industry now facing an uncertain future, I have great sympathy. Things could have been so different had the preparation work been carried out better before the legislation was steamrollered into place. Mr Ockenden claims that his main concern is for consumers. I think not - his concerns are directed a zillion miles away at the moment, I am sure. I wonder if he has even ventured onto HIP HIP Hooray's website? If he has, what do you think he is doing about the front page content? All credit to the staff at HHH - trying to work through the mess. Now THAT is putting the customer first - Mr Ockenden, take notice! |
Posted By Wooden Top on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 22:39:04
Get Profile | If your involved with HIPs, get your heads out of the sand. Your kidding yourself if you think you will make a career out of it. It's short shelf life is just about up and bleeding to death. No-one wants it, unless your trying to make money from it. |
Posted By Anti HIP on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 18:13:54
Get Profile | get rid of HIPS asap ............ |
Posted By Pussycat Agent on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 16:10:51
Get Profile | Throwing caution, please be careful! As far as I know the Conservatives are now going to consult before taking action on Hips. That could delay things by many months. Also Shapps has said the law should be complied with until it is changed. Whilst some agents might be prepared to take a chance, the lawyers won't. We know the names of those people etc who are waiting to pounce if they find a breach has occured. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time. My Hip supplier is backed by a company who has been around for over 100 years so with a bit of luck my sellers will be ok! |
Posted By Nick,snr Pali on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 16:01:04
Get Profile | Wow Chief you lost me. I think I know what you are trying to say. Pali own Hipview a portal used by many companies to order full or part Hips or the components and display them for all interested parties. Many of these companies have been providing very cheap Hips and have now gone out of business leaving the client without a Hip.(and Pali without payment) However if these were ordered through the Hipview platform where ever possible Pali will make them available on Hipview. A simple search by postcode will tell you if it is stored on Hipview without the need to log in. You may need to then contact Pali for the access PIN.
Nick.snr. |
Posted By Seldom Lucid on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 15:49:46
Get Profile | @ PeeBee - exactly how far did you dig?
Chief is correct when EPCs and searches are not paid for, then title is not passed and the goods go uninsured, the liability then rests with the HIP Provider who as an example has more than likely taken the consumers payment upfront, gone in to liquidation not paid for the EPCs and search reports and we continue round the AHIPP orbital. Stinks doesn’t it – a bit like Crockenden spouting consumer protection. |
Posted By Chief on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 15:35:29
Get Profile | Hi PeeBee
The answer to your question is simply this. If certain component parts of the HiP are unpaid, therefore uninsured, and a claim arose that was rejected, then the consumer could be left with one unholy mess and possibly a big financial loss. for the record my terms and conditions state that unpaid work is uninsured and if I have to write off my invoices I inform my insurance company. this would pass the burden to the HiP provider, not very consumer friendly. |
Posted By PeeBee on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 14:59:28
Get Profile | Chief: I have done as you suggested, dug deeply - and I don't understand the exact point of your post. Please explain - what has the ownership of a HIP and its' components got to do with its' fitness for purpose? |
Posted By Chief on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 13:59:35
Get Profile | The consumer is an innocent, that is a given.
However in the interest of the consumer if we dig a little deeper, turnover a few rocks and a different landscape appears. Unless I am mistaken title to your goods does not pass until these same goods are paid for.They are also uninsured. If this is correct (which on a legal basis I have been assured it is)then the likes of Mr Ockenden(AHIPP) and Mr Finch (PCCB)are only hiding behind the shield of consumer protection, because if the consumer was there primary concern then surely commom sense would dictate that the consumer and or buyer should be made aware that certain parts of the HiP pack should not be relied upon. There are literally thousands of packs in the market that are totally unfit for purpose. Believe me there are more large HiP companies on the verge of going under unless they inject large amounts of capital. |
Posted By bigG on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 11:49:13
Get Profile | All staff members of HIP companies best start job hunting. As I predicted this waste of space legislation is going to go to the dogs and take with it the jobs it so ridiculously created. Hip Hip Hooray Hips are going away! |
Posted By Throwing caution to thw wind on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 10:24:30
Get Profile | I agree with "wont be the last" and add that the number of Vendors insisting that their property is to be marketed without a HIP has grown. Either we go with it and technically break the law or they go to any number of our competitors who will happily market a property without a HIP. Also the general feeling is that the Conservatives will gain power and then probably 3 months afterwards HIPS will be confined to the bin! Whilst HIPS are a total waste of time I do feel sorry for the HIP provider we use as theyare decent hard working people who have just been sold a duff business model. |
Posted By Ray Evans of Sheringham on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 10:22:57
Get Profile | Big Clarissa - I could not agree with you more!
Although I believe HIP's are a waste of time and money it was (is) the over hyping of the income potential of DEA's by the 'training firms' that is a major cause of firms failing. |
Posted By Big Clarissa on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 08:57:51
Get Profile | I would venture to suggest that the general public is not Mike Ockendens chief concern, Mike Ockerden is Mike Ockerdens chief concern. The fact is a founder AHIPP member has or is going bust and because they haven't paid the latest renewal he couldn't give a monkeys. He has just proved what a pathetic waste of space AHIPP are and that any supplier dealing with an AHIPP registered company has no additional comfort. Still he has had a nice little living for the past 4 years, |
Posted By wont be the last on Wednesday 3rd February 2010 08:51:23
Get Profile | Another HIP company about to bite the dust and it wont be the last. As an agent I know instructions have been really tight in the 1st 6 weeks of 2010 and look as if they will be for a while. This doesnt bode well for those in the HIP industry whos supply chain is from new listings. Not enough cake to go around. |
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